Web Hosting Talk : Web Hosting Main Forums : Web Hosting : Time to call an attorney??!!

[writerjudd]

First some background:

I own a small pr agency. We use email as our primary means of communication. Our website is both a marketing tool and a way to transfer files to clients. I also store many important documents in a secure folder accessible via ftp.

About two months ago I misplaced a credit card and asked AmEx for a replacement. The new card’s number was slightly different from the old.

For 2.5 years, web.com has charged that card quarterly for my company’s hosting.

Three days ago (Monday the 3rd) the site, email and ftp went down. Two trouble tickets were opened and calls to support were made. After over an hour on hold (on a toll call) I gave up and knelt in humble supplication to any deity I could think of or invent, that in time, the trouble tickets to be addressed and my site placed back online.

Eight hours passed and nothing happened. I quit praying.

Then an email arrived, sent to the yahoo.com account I used to set up that hosting arrangement and since forgot I had. This email told me of the rejected charge 29 days before, but that “no payment is due at this time.�

I bit the bullet and called support to give them the new credit card number, confident that light would soon appear at the end of the tunnel.

30 minutes on hold and two bleeding eardrums later, I’m rewarded for my tenacity by some kid who goes out of his way to make it clear that he could not possibly care one bit less about that job, or me, or my silly little “internet� site. The only thing he cared about was getting the last four digits of the billing credit card to verify my identity. I explained that I didn’t have that card anymore, and that was the problem. He told me it’s policy to get those four digits.

The first damned thing this kid has ever taken a stand on in his life and it’s my last four invalid credit card digits.

I told him that in the future, anybody claiming to be me who calls wanting to pay for things I otherwise would have to pay for can do so without verifying their identity. He has my permission on that.

Uh…ok…whatever.

I gave him the new credit card number. He said, probably while IMing his buddy 1337boyZrUlEr0flmA0xxx6969xxx, that in 30 to 40 minutes I’d be back on line.

Many more hours pass and nothing.

Then this! The first trouble ticket gets a response!

Your account was closed due to the failed quarterly renewal on 2005-09-04. The account past due charge has been accepted and service is being migrated to new server all should be back up very soon.

Hours pass and nothing.

Another call to support, and another surly haXz0r who loves everything about his job but the people needing support.

He said my site would be back up very, very soon.

How soon?

Very soon.

How soon is that?

I ask again because I’m beginning to doubt we define the word “soon� the same way.

Or the word: “very.�

Or the word: “support.�

And certainly not the word: “on-line.�

He puts me on hold and comes back saying no less than three people told him it will absolutely be that day, and not to worry, my email is all being safely stored on the server for me.

Hours pass. Nothing.

Then email! Apparently my credit card has been safely billed by web.com!

Whew! Glad to take that off my list of concerns.

That day ends, and nothing, save me sacrificing multiple IQ points while enduring web.com’s on hold music for a full hour before cutting my quickly mounting losses and hanging up.

I then checked the second trouble ticket. Nothing. I added the comment “W-T-F??!!�

I call back later. Web.com phone support is closed.

Apparently we don’t define the term “24 hour support� the same way either.

Twelve hours pass. I call back. The first adult I’ve interfaced with yet tells me that, the server migration has yet to begin for me.

As a matter of fact, the server I was on has since been shut down and taken off line and is now possibly being used for bowstaff target practice by the support staff, one of which is a 34th level ranger in DnD. And oh yeah, not one bit (or byte for that matter) of email sent to me will be recovered.

I didn’t even ask what that means for the site itself and the files in my ftp folder, but I can guess. They’re gone.

Another five hours have since passed, and nothing. Except me looking for an attorney, mentally adding up the damages.

The TOS, a 33 page long brain enema, can be endured here: www-dot-web-dot-com/company_info/terms_of_service.html .
Predictably, the TOS says they’re not responsible for anything…even the things they’re responsible for. But it’s also apparent that they violated some of their own polices in terms of alerting me of this credit card problem and not sending me electronic invoices over the past 2.5 years.

At some point, my damages must outweigh their silly boilerplate *** covering.

So my question is: Anybody know the formula for successfully suing (or at least getting compensated) in these kinds of circumstances?

Boy that’s a long post. Very therapeutic though.

Thanks!

[Mike V]

That's quite a long read and it's too bad you had to go through this. Although I did smile several times in reading your post, as you have a good sense of humor

As far as the email being gone, that's normal for an account that's cancelled. And you do hold a little bit of responsibility for not reviewing the monthly recurring charges in your old card and updating the card number with your web host (and other entities, if any). It's crummy that you were treated so bad, but you could have prevented this with a phone call up front to change your card number. Hopefully this frustration will help you learn that.

The short answer if that it's not worth suing over. Although in the US you can sue anybody for anything you don't have enough damages to warrant a lawsuit. You'd just make your lawyer a little richer. The best you can do is file a complaint with the BBB, which itself is a joke in my opinion, and of course come here to write a review.

BTW, to validate your review please post the name of your site that was having so much trouble please.

[Zach-E2]

sorry to hear about all that, man. before suing, though, i'd think about everything. how much money are you out of right now due to this incident, how much more money will you have to waste on lawyers and court fees? it would suck to sue him only to win $30 when you spent way more on lawyers and judges and all the other annoying fees.

[writerjudd]

The site is bigideapr-dot-com.

And the damages are based on the fact that if the site it gone (my only backups were kept online too!) I will spend many dollars or hours rebuilding it.

Plus the client and internal work files that are probably gone have enormous value.

AND at least one business development opportunity I know I missed when email to me was returned as undeliverable for two days.

I'll never know how much this has really cost me.

[Mike V]

The site backups were your responsibility. I know in your frustration that's hard to hear but it's the truth. Don't rely on your host to keep backups of your data. Almost no host takes responsbility in their Terms of Service. And even if they did, your business is too important to trust your confidential information to a third party. Unless it's a recognized leader in backup solutions like Iron Mountain.

You probably won't be able to claim damages beyond the hosting fee you paid. As I said you can sue for any reason, but I don't see this lawsuit going very far or getting the results you desire. This is going to be a very hard life lesson. The best you can hope for is to walk away from this much wiser in the knowledge of keeping your own backups and keeping your billing up to date.

Best of luck with your next host.

[ArtieFishill]

Ok, first off..

You obvioius are a poor PR person, if that's what you really do. You're attitude, while trying to mask it with "humor" in your post, is condensending and rude.

The name calling and put downs of the host and it's staff is unwarrented IHMO as the whole issue was all your doing to begin with.

- You knew you had to get a new card
- You knew that you used that card to pay for the hosting
- You used a Yahoo acct opened specifically for that hosting signup and then abandoned it and then wonder why you were caught off guard
- You were a MONTH late in paying, I wouldn't have had your data anymore.
- You kept your BACKUPS on the same account as the originals? That's bright.
- You claim that your biz hinges on this acct, but have no backup plans in event of a problem like this (alternate email contacts, outside DNS control so you could reroute traffic, etc).
- Then you make silly "I'm gonna sue" and "Call my laywer" claims..lol...(as if any real laywer wouldn't snicker at you and hang up..)

Just another post by a noob member who things WHT is the worlds dumping grounds for his own mistakes and expects sympathic ear. Well, you'll get it from some host here I'm sure who'll try to turn you away from your current host by trashing them as well.

Simple facts is this, while the hosts response time to the issue is not stellar, it's also not all that ourtrageous considering you were 30 days late on payment and did not respond to billing notices. And if you're tone to the support staff (age notwithstanding) was anyway near as condensending as your post, I don't blame them on bit for taking their time.

[GideonX]

What are your grounds for suing? That they suspended your account after repeated failed charge attempts? Or that, you now don't have a backup of your data because of that?

Doesn't sound like a winning battle unfortunately...

[ArtieFishill]

Originally posted by CTG
The site backups were your responsibility. I know in your frustration that's hard to hear but it's the truth. Don't rely on your host to keep backups of your data. Almost no host takes responsbility in their Terms of Service. And even if they did, your business is too important to trust your confidential information to a third party. Unless it's a recognized leader in backup solutions like Iron Mountain.

From web.com TOS:

CUSTOMER DATA

Customer is responsible for its content residing on WEB.COM servers, and except as otherwise agreed with WEB.COM, for the backup thereof.

You probably won't be able to claim damages beyond the hosting fee you paid. As I said you can sue for any reason, but I don't see this lawsuit going very far or getting the results you desire. This is going to be a very hard life lesson. The best you can hope for is to walk away from this much wiser in the knowledge of keeping your own backups and keeping your billing up to date.

Best of luck with your next host.

I don't see web.com be liable for ANYTHING what-so-ever. They did nothing wrong in this case, so the OP has NO case for any type of legal actions or recovery.


All payments are due on the Account Statement Date. The Account Statement Date is the monthly anniversary of the date the account was activated. If you provide Web.com your credit card information, you authorize Web.com to automatically charge your credit or debit card for charges that apply to your account. Recurring charges will be posted to your credit card until such time that you cancel your account in accordance with our Terms of Service. Web.com will then automatically charge your credit card on the next Account Statement Date. You are responsible for directly updating, or notifying Web.com, of any changes to your credit card (including, but not limited to card number, expiration date, billing address, or card status).

Customers not paying by credit card agree to make payment of their balance due within ten (10) days of the Account Statement Date. Accounts that are thirty (30) days past due may be subject to suspension. All past due and unpaid balances are subject to collection. In the event of collection, you will be liable for costs of collection including attorney's fees, court costs, and collection agency fees.

[writerjudd]

I guess Artie is confused. I'll type more slowly this time.

Two things happened here.

1- charges were rejected.

2- a server migration was botched.

On point #1:
the host was supposed to alert me to that fact. It didn't happen until after the account was suspended. Clear violation of TOS. Nor were invoices sent to me as they were apparently supposed to be. Another violation.

On #2:
The best damned backup on earth wouldn't have helped me one bit over these past 50 hours, would they have ArthurFishTroll? I'm losing money I use to pay my employees' salaries and health care right now, and it has nothing to do with backups or alternate plans. As far as I know, this might have happened regardless of the charges.

This is no different than had ArthurTrollmeister set up a big obstruction in front of my offices that kept people from seeing my business and kept anybody from getting in the door or sending me mail, and even setting fire to some of my important records.

"Please move your...whatever that is...ArthurTrollman."

"Sorry, I'll move it immediately."

50 hours pass....

"Say, about that obstruction...ArthurTrollsky you said you would move it immediatley. Now it's worse. I can't do business this way."

"Heh...sod off. I'm watching wrestling, you 12th level orc."

[cowabunga]

Originally posted by ArtieFishill
Ok, first off..

You obvioius are a poor PR person, if that's what you really do. You're attitude, while trying to mask it with "humor" in your post, is condensending and rude.

How would you know?

Originally posted by ArtieFishill
Just another post by a noob member who things WHT is the worlds dumping grounds for his own mistakes and expects sympathic ear. Well, you'll get it from some host here I'm sure who'll try to turn you away from your current host by trashing them as well.

Noob, how trite, as if that label means anything to a real business person... No just another post by a customer that was treated poorly by yet another of the rinky dink no-name hosts that lack any understanding of business, small business customer issues or service levels and support.

[LimpBagel]

The reason they are berating you for the backups is because you're talking about suing for how much it will cost you to rebuild the site. You should have off-site backups, period.

Also, you say they never contacted you when the CC didn't work. You also say you forgot about the yahoo email account you used to sign up for hosting. Did you check there?

[GideonX]

If they sent notification to your Yahoo account, then they are notifying you. As you may all know (hopefully), hosts can't tell when you change your email. It's your responsibility to keep your personal data up to date.

[writerjudd]

That email was one of several that I'm alerted of when something arrives, but which I never proactively check. It had been so long since anything had landed in there that I'd forgotten about it. Obviously I did get the 8-hour-ex-post-facto email in real time, and in the process could see that otherwise, nothing had been sent there besides spam-filtered offers to help the brave people of Nigeria and get rich in the process.

Gonna look into that, by the way.

[ArtieFishill]

Originally posted by writerjudd
I guess Artie is confused. I'll type more slowly this time.

Two things happened here.

1- charges were rejected.

Your fault.

You are responsible for directly updating, or notifying Web.com, of any changes to your credit card (including, but not limited to card number, expiration date, billing address, or card status).

2- a server migration was botched.

Nothing in you're original post about a botched migration. Simple that they were migrating and that mail would not be moved. That's not unusual.

On point #1:
the host was supposed to alert me to that fact. It didn't happen until after the account was suspended. Clear violation of TOS. Nor were invoices sent to me as they were apparently supposed to be. Another violation.

Have you checked your Yahoo spam folder? I know for a fact that Yahoo's filtering is agressive and we get LOTS of complaints from clients that we never send mail, invoices, etc, but we know we have...99% of them are Yahoo email accts.

On #2:
The best damned backup on earth wouldn't have helped me one bit over these past 50 hours, would they have ArthurFishTroll? I'm losing money I use to pay my employees' salaries and health care right now, and it has nothing to do with backups or alternate plans. As far as I know, this might have happened regardless of the charges.

Actually a backup would have done you WONDERS. You could have simply signed up for a monthly billing acct at a new host, uploaded your files, and updated your DNS and been back online in one or two hours. Poor planning and lack of understanding on your part of webhosting 101 is not the hosts fault.

This is no different than had ArthurTrollmeister set up a big obstruction in front of my offices that kept people from seeing my business and kept anybody from getting in the door or sending me mail, and even setting fire to some of my important records.


"Please move your...whatever that is...ArthurTrollman."

"Sorry, I'll move it immediately."

50 hours pass....

"Say, about that obstruction...ArthurTrollsky you said you would move it immediatley. Now it's worse. I can't do business this way."

"Heh...sod off. I'm watching wrestling, you 12th level orc."

This anology would only be true if "Aurthor" were the landlord and you failed to pay your rent and you forgot to pay your water bill thus the sprinklers not working. LOL.

You seem a tad immature IMHO. You seem to think that anyone young (and I'm far from that) is unintelligent and thinks of nothing but games. I'm sorry, you are extremely condensending and if you REALLY were that concerned about the service at web.com, you would have changed hosts way before the 50 or whatever, especially since you were aware that there was no data to recover. You simply pay for hosting elsewhere, get your site up and then get a refund from them. Instead you choose to come to WHT and whine.

And to Cowabungo, "noob" is my term for users who only open a WHT acct to whine, it's not a specific reference to any single person, but a group...first time posters...thus "noob". And for business professional, my opinin is that writerjudd is far from that if this is an example of how he deals with business issues. He's trying to put all the blame on web.com (who he claims he's been with for 2 1/2 years without a problem, but first problem that does arise, he's calling them names and making them out to be dimwitted and slackers, even though HE's the cause of the entire mess).

[ArtieFishill]

Originally posted by cowabunga

Noob, how trite, as if that label means anything to a real business person... No just another post by a customer that was treated poorly by yet another of the rinky dink no-name hosts that lack any understanding of business, small business customer issues or service levels and support.

If you think writerjudd was treated "poorly", how should his comments and attitude then be classified?