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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    566

    Can a registrar sell off "renew-hold" or "redumption-period" domains?

    Hello!

    I am in a mess due to one of fast growing registrar. I will be making the name public after getting reply to my support ticket I posted with the registrar.

    The problem is that few of my domains expired some time back. I didn't renewed them because my client didn't asked me to.

    Now the issue is that after keeping the domain at "renewal-hold" status for approx 25 days, the domains are no more in my control panel. The domains still show up with the same registrar and the date of registration is still the same (this shows the domains were not dropped). There was no redumption period for the domains and now the owner is someone else!!

    As far as I know that during redumption period only the current owner can renew it by paying the redumption fee. Here the registrar simply didn't let the domain go to redumption status and sold off the domain to some domain grabbing company.

    Can a registrar take off the redumption period from a domain at his will?

    Please let me know if anyone else has gone through the same and what he did to get the domain back. I will also like to get views of experts if the "ICAAN" registrar is allowed to do this with a .com domain?

    Regards
    Bagfull

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Oxford, England, UK
    Posts
    828
    Its ICANN not ICAAN for one.

    Secondly

    # Any "delete" of a domain name (whether inside or outside of any applicable grace period) will result in a 30-day Deleted Name Redemption Grace Period. This grace period will allow the domain name registrant, registrar, and/or registry time to detect and correct any mistaken deletions.

    # During this 30-day period, the deleted name will be placed on REGISTRY-HOLD, which will cause the name to be removed from the zone. (The domain name therefore will not function/resolve.) This feature will help ensure notice to the registrant that the name is subject to deletion at the end of the Redemption Grace Period, even if the contact data the registrar has for the registrant is no longer accurate.

    # During the Redemption Grace Period, registrants could redeem their registrations through registrars. Registrars would be able to redeem the name in the registry for the original registrant by paying renewal fees, plus a service charge, to the registry operator. Any party requesting redemption would be required to prove its identity as the original registrant of the name.
    Seems to me that someone had tricked the company into thinking that they were the original owner (if it was merely a backorder the register date would change to the current date, and not the old date).;

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    566
    The domain never went into Redemption Period. The domain went to new user before that. Does this means the domain was "sold off" by the registrar?

    I am still waiting for the reply to the support ticket by the registrar.
    Bagfull Interweb Inc.
    Windows and Linux Affordable Hosting and Cheap Domain Names.
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  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    5,400
    Was the name "auctioned off" during the grace period? Many registrars like godaddy, bulkregister etc will "auction" the names on grace period and they can very well "renew it" under a different person who won the auction. We will be seeing this more and more since it is very lucrative for the registrars. The grace period is at a registrars discrection you have to remember.
    Domain Maven

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    566
    I do not know if it was auctioned.

    The domain expired on 15th Aug 2005, it was on Registrar-Hold (for renewal) what we call grace period.

    On 10th Sep the domain was supposed to go to Redemption-Hold (Which I can still get back by paying the Redemption fee), but the domain was renewed before 10th and pushed to some other account with same registrar.

    Point to note is that the domain was renewed without dropping since the domain still has the old registration date.

    Further Registrars Cannot sell off the domain in grace period or redemption period. This makes purpose of redemption period useless.

    I request the domain name experts for their comments.

    Thanks Alex Fernandez, your post made many things clear.

  6. #6
    You probably should read your registrar's registration agreement as that will give you some clues as to what occurred.

    From NetworkSolutions:

    14. Grace Period; IP Address Changes; Renewal and Transfer of Expired Domain Names on Your Behalf. You agree that we may, but are not obligated to, allow you to renew your domain name after its expiration date has passed. You agree that after the expiration date of your domain name registration and before it is deleted or renewed, we may direct your domain name to an IP address designated by us, including, without limitation, to an IP address which hosts a parking, under construction or other temporary page that may include promotions and advertisements for, and links to, Network Solutions’s Web site, Network Solutions product and service offerings, third-party Web sites, third-party product and service offerings, and/or Internet search engines, and you agree that we may place our contact information in the WHOIS output for the expired domain name. Should you not renew your domain name during any applicable grace period, you agree that unless you notify us to the contrary we may, in our sole discretion, renew and transfer the domain name to a third party on your behalf (such a transaction is hereinafter referred to as a “Direct Transfer”), and your failure to so notify us after the domain name expiration date shall constitute your consent to such a Direct Transfer. In the event we are able to identify such a third party (the “Direct Transfer Customer”) and effectuate such a Direct Transfer, we will notify you via email after the transaction is completed (“Direct Transfer Notification”). Additionally, you will be eligible to receive a portion of the funds received by us as a result of a Direct Transfer of your domain name, as follows: (i) if you registered your domain name with Network Solutions directly through our Web site, you will be eligible to receive twenty percent (20%) of the Net Proceeds received by us from our third party vendor as a result of a Direct Transfer; and (ii) if you registered your domain name with Network Solutions through a third party agent (such as your ISP, for example), you will be eligible to receive fifteen percent (15%) of the Net Proceeds received by us from our third party vendor as a result of a Direct Transfer. You acknowledge and agree that the Direct Transfer process may be facilitated through a single Direct Transfer Customer, or through a brief auction involving multiple parties who are interested in your domain name. For purposes of this paragraph, “Net Proceeds” shall mean the total fees paid to us by our third party vendor as a result of a Direct Transfer, less any registry fees, credit card charge-backs, processing and check fees, and other costs or fees associated with the Direct Transfer of the domain name. You agree that we shall have no obligation to pay you, and you shall have no right to receive, any percentage of the Net Proceeds unless, within ninety (90) days after the date of our Direct Transfer Notification, you first provide us with the name, address and related information requested by us (including, but not limited to, a Form W-9, if applicable) in our Direct Transfer Notification. We cannot guarantee, and we make no representation or promise, that any Direct Transfer will occur with respect to your domain name.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    5,400
    Originally posted by bagfull
    I do not know if it was auctioned.


    Further Registrars Cannot sell off the domain in grace period or redemption period. This makes purpose of redemption period useless.

    You are incorrect, once the domain name is expired it is no longer yours. The registrar has to either drop the name immediately upon it expiring or they are charged to extend the name for a year by the registry. It is the registrars who are nice enough to give you a grace period to renew the name. Many of these registrars are realizing they can make additional income by using the grace period which normally cost them money into something that can earn them money.
    Domain Maven

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    566
    this is the reply i got:

    ***************************
    Any domain name would slip into the Redemption Period ONLY if the domain name was manually deleted before the expiry date, or is deleted by the system after the Renewal Grace Period and does not have any backorder against it

    Back orders must have been placed for the domain xxx.com and yyy.com due to which these did not slip into Redemption period and were renewed for the person who backordered it.

    A domain name only when deleted and not redeemed is available for fresh registration and when a fresh registration order is placed for the same, the domain name has the new registration date, if a domain name is back ordered after its expiry, then its been renewed by someone else and is not been deleted so the Registration date continuous to be the same.
    ***************************

    1) There is nothing like backordering at the registrar's site.
    2) There is nothing like "Direct Transfer" in the registrar's terms and conditions
    3) I was never told that the domain is having a backorder and was taken away from my panel.
    Bagfull Interweb Inc.
    Windows and Linux Affordable Hosting and Cheap Domain Names.
    Powerful Dual Xeon Processors, 24x7 Support, PayPal Accepted
    http://www.bagfull.net/

  9. #9
    Originally posted by bagfull
    1) There is nothing like backordering at the registrar's site.
    2) There is nothing like "Direct Transfer" in the registrar's terms and conditions
    3) I was never told that the domain is having a backorder and was taken away from my panel.
    They don't give information to third parties, even if you've had the
    domains before. But they can tell you certain things (such as the
    domain having been backordered) within reasonable limits.

    I'm sorry to say this but you've lost the domains. Either contact
    the new owner or use legal options if you've got any.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    566
    It is the registrars who are nice enough to give you a grace period to renew the name.
    You are incorrect, once the domain name is expired it is no longer yours.
    Many registrars like godaddy, bulkregister etc will "auction" the names on grace period and they can very well "renew it" under a different person who won the auction.
    I understand that registrars are nice enough to give us race period, if they want they can deny any grace period.

    Here the question is not of grace period. It is the redemption period. The redemption period is given by registry and registrar cannot deny it to the registrant. If the domain is not renewed, the domain can be used in anyway during grace period (example, redirecting to a parking page etc.) Then the domain has to be dropped and it is the registry which gives 30 day redemption period to the original owner only.

    Here the domain was "SOLD OFF" to snap names/pool during the grace period and the redemption period was not at all there.

    I asked the registrar about the URL where they take backorders, this is the reply I got:

    ***** does not take Back Orders for domain names. They are placed at sites Like SnapNames or Pool.com.

    When the domain name is not renewed in the Renewal Grace period, at the end of this period it is deleted by the Registrar. Now the domain name is in the Redemption Period and can only be redeemed from the Registry. If the domain name has been back ordered, it does not enter the redemption period and directly is allotted to the person who has back ordered it.

    Hope I have answered your queries.


    This clearly shows that they sold off the domain to third party and this denies me the redemption period which is given by the registry and not the registrar to “Each” expired domain.

    I understand that all have their own view point but going as per the ICANN's guidelines and registrar's terms I came to the above conclusion.

    Regards

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    919
    It would appear from ICANN site there is NO real guidlines to redemption periods.

    http://www.icann.org/faq/#rgp

    I want a domain that has recently expired, but the registrar won't release it. How can I get the name?

    Section 3.7.5 of the Registrar Accreditation Agreement requires registrars to delete domain registrations after a second notice and a grace period, unless there are "extenuating circumstances." Some examples of such "extenuating circumstances" might include ownership disputes, payment disputes, or lame server delegations. Only the registrar would know exactly why it hasn't yet deleted a particular name. No specific dates or deadlines are prescribed in the current provisions.

    ICANN has not yet adopted a uniform policy concerning the handling of expired domain names. If you're interested in helping to craft such a policy, you can learn more about ICANN's bottom-up, consensus-based process for making new policies at ICANN's website.
    Nil illegitimi carborundum
    I'm getting old and don't do drugs. I get the same effect just standing up fast.

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