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  1. #26
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    Sep 2002
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    Toronto, ON
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    Dan.

    Cpanel is there to assist you and your customers but it cannot replace or do normal admin work for you. You have to keep it updated and make sure that your system is maintained and secure, if the account restore feature isn't working you can either try the bleeding edge tree of cpanel to see if there's a fix the possibilities are all there.

    To me sounds like you want it to do everything from A to Z that ain't going to happen and if it did I'm sure it would cost a hell lot more than it costs.

    * Edit: What OS are you using cpanel on?
    Jean-Pierre Abboud / I'm the TekGURU
    www.Gotekky.com / Managed hosting solutions / AS63447
    Web Hosting, VPS Hosting, Dedicated Servers

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    44

    Re: Cpanel Is Crap!!!!

    RazorBlue - Dan, completely agree with you. I though I'm the only one who hates Cpanel

    In my opinion CPanel is the ugliest panel out there... from users and admins point of view. buggy and insecure. CPanelXP interface is unfriendly too. Wonder how people still use it. DirectAdmin, Plesk or H-Sphere are much better panels.

    PS: and don't tell me I don't know how to use/install Cpanel.. I can write an apache/bind/postfix configs from scratch without any panels.

    We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl, year after year, running over the same old ground. What have we found?

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    775
    I totally and utterly agree with Dan's original post on CPanel.

    IMO, CPanel is buggy and uses way too much resources for a backend hosting control panel. I also think they tried to cram in too many "server setup" and "server admin" tasks into WHM, sure it's easier for newbies, but at what price? Answer: A total mess of a control panel which likes to break things...

    It is much more hardwork to maintain a CPanel box than a controlpanel-less box.

    CPanel has lots of features, but in my opinion, I think it has way too many features that are actually built into the control panel. I personally find DirectAdmin much nicer to use. (Then again, Iv'e only ever used CPanel and DA from an admin point of view, iv'e only used other CP's as a client).

    The problem is the popularity of CPanel amongst end-users. It's one of those buzz-words that most people look for in a host, not dissimilar to those "unlimited bandwidth" problems a few years ago.

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    1,319
    We use an in-house control panel for our shared hosting platform and it works great. We use CPANEL for our reseller hosting - I have many complaints. There are so many little bugs (IE in the reseller center, one of the links is wrong), there are spelling errors, random odd text showing up, it won't list any IPS inside our virtuozzo vpss in the reserve IP manager, since it's compiled perl it takes much longer to load than it should (Don't blame the server specs because they're Dual 2.8GHz, 4G Ram and hardware raid) - some of the templates are missing links - in the contact manager the icons show different contact methods than those actually selected and the list goes on

    as said before though, these are nothing that a good sysadmin can't get around (IE editing /etc/reservedips manually etc)
    Last edited by MaB; 08-26-2005 at 01:41 PM.
    Avi B

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    In a house
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    949
    Originally posted by shockuk

    It is much more hardwork to maintain a CPanel box than a controlpanel-less box.

    The problem is the popularity of CPanel amongst end-users. It's one of those buzz-words that most people look for in a host, not dissimilar to those "unlimited bandwidth" problems a few years ago.
    Just taking out a few things from this. I would agree to some extent on most of the things, but from a providers standpoint, the sheer amount of people who come into the hosting world don't have the necessary skills to properly admin a non control panel server regardless. Nor do they have the skills to properly admin a control panel server either. The common belief I still see everyday is that the hosting / adult world are an unlimited supply of customers and cash flow. But it's also the reason that server admin outsourcing has become popular, and with the ease of use of control panels for shared hosting clients, it's almost mandatory.

    I really think it comes down to the always present debate everywhere: which CP is the best, which OS is the best, everyone can argue something different, but in the end it's what's best for that person, their needs, their clients needs, and that's it.
    Matthew McCormick
    Director of Customer Care
    www.caro.net
    mmccormick@carohosting.com

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,834

    Re: Cpanel Is Crap!!!!

    Originally posted by RazorBlue - Dan


    I don't have hours and hours of time to sit and troubleshoot software that is PAID FOR - at rip off pricing might I add.

    Thoroughly pissed off, you think Microsoft are bad - try cPanel first.

    Dan
    From experience, if you are going to host any control panel on an Open Sorce platform, you better have a compent administrator a phone call or email away.

    It's really not so much the control panels themselves, but the never ending, constant updating that is required to make your system stable and secure.

    This is just the nature of the beast.
    Ray Womack @ atOmicVPS LTD
    Linux & Windows Cloud Hosting Solutions Powered by OnApp
    Fully Managed [Shared][Reseller][Cloud VPS] [Dedicated]
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  7. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    North Yorkshire, UK
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    Originally posted by J-P
    Dan.

    Cpanel is there to assist you and your customers but it cannot replace or do normal admin work for you. You have to keep it updated and make sure that your system is maintained and secure, if the account restore feature isn't working you can either try the bleeding edge tree of cpanel to see if there's a fix the possibilities are all there.

    To me sounds like you want it to do everything from A to Z that ain't going to happen and if it did I'm sure it would cost a hell lot more than it costs.

    * Edit: What OS are you using cpanel on?
    No normal admin work required, if you install it and it doesn't work without actually having to hack through it, I call that buggy software. I'm perfectly aware of how to admin a system - this hasn't got anything to do with it.

    The OS is CentOS 3.4 x64 (which works absolutely fine on some cPanel machines I installed last week - not a problem at all, and they are still running fine).

    I've contacted cPanel and their solution was to ask me to format the machine and they're going to reattempt the install for me. So the question still lies, how did cPanels basic installer manage to screw my server up to the point where not even cPanels own techs can fix it.

    Dan
    █ Dan Kitchen | Technical Director | Razorblue
    █ ddi: (+44) (0)1748 900 680 | e: dkitchen@razorblue.com
    █ UK Intensive Managed Hosting, Clusters and Colocation.
    █ HP Servers, Cisco/Juniper Powered BGP Network (AS15692).

  8. #33
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    Oct 2002
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    In a house
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    Originally posted by RazorBlue - Dan
    No normal admin work required, if you install it and it doesn't work without actually having to hack through it, I call that buggy software. I'm perfectly aware of how to admin a system - this hasn't got anything to do with it.

    The OS is CentOS 3.4 x64 (which works absolutely fine on some cPanel machines I installed last week - not a problem at all, and they are still running fine).

    I've contacted cPanel and their solution was to ask me to format the machine and they're going to reattempt the install for me. So the question still lies, how did cPanels basic installer manage to screw my server up to the point where not even cPanels own techs can fix it.

    Dan
    Well, I've seen you around enough to see your admin abilities. Those out of the question, the x64 stability is something I've questioned with cPanel installs. Granted though, most CP companies if an initial install got corrupted somehow want a fresh OS install, or any CP install for that matter typically needs a fresh one as well. Do let us know though what cPanel comes back with, though they'll probably have no problems at all, just like our other CP installs we had issues with, we always got errors, they never got any oh well, what can you do really?
    Matthew McCormick
    Director of Customer Care
    www.caro.net
    mmccormick@carohosting.com

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    316
    cPannel has flooded the web hosting market with admins and users who have no clue how to actually interact with the OS's they are running. That is a bit off topic, but the title drew me.

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    3,374
    Originally posted by sagomatt
    the sheer amount of people who come into the hosting world don't have the necessary skills to properly admin a non control panel server regardless. Nor do they have the skills to properly admin a control panel server either.
    we all piss on MS for their bloated ware and i'm afaird that's what cpanel have come to...

    You got FUNCTIONALITY VS STABILITY.

    are you willing to trade in features rich panel (function) for simple work out of box panel (stable)?

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    3,374

    Re: Re: Cpanel Is Crap!!!!

    Originally posted by PSFServers
    It's really not so much the control panels themselves, but the never ending, constant updating that is required to make your system stable and secure.

    This is just the nature of the beast.
    disagree. if you need to fix a control panel on almost daily. then it's time to switch.

    no body going to spend their time all day long to fix MS Office. the nature of the beast is to update your system (software, os...etc.) when there is patch/fix/service pack

    not to fix when a software break something. OP's point is that. cpanel break almost daily with unkown issue. kinda like making you their beta tester and they charge you a premiue price for it!

    i don't think admin work involved beta testing a piece of software that you pay for and i think that's OP's point. he feel like he is not getting his money worth because the software require too much tweaks, fix by himself when he pay good money to get it work out of box.

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    1,000
    Originally posted by ScreamingEaglePC
    Sounds like you and qwidjib0 both just picked up some poorly managed servers.
    We manage our own servers. We'll also manage our customer's servers - but we won't manage cPanel servers. I have a long list of cPanel issues that have nothing to do with management. But, if any of the issues did - we tried cPanel support for a number of things too, and they had no help for us.

    Our Plesk / vSacs setups, experienced zero downtime of any services over the time we've used them due to control panel issues. The cPanel servers we've used, while we admittedly push them a lot harder - have needed to be babysat pretty much round-the-clock.
    Last edited by qwidjib0; 08-26-2005 at 03:23 PM.
    Corey Northcutt | Electric Goat Media
    Currently building this nifty small business ROI calculator.

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    6,957
    I thought I'd chime in here.


    First of all, the main problem I personally have with cpanel is the inconsistant install. Depending on the OS, or maybe even time, it may request some information in the prompt, thus you can't just let it sit there and install. Also, once on awhile there is a bug in the install scripts, not allowing us to do installs for 12 hours or so... Also, the upgrading through cPanel, are very often buggy, causing all sorts of unusual problems for us to fix.

    cPanel is also the control panel we get the most support requests regarding. I honestly can only think of one time we've needed to fix Plesk, when a client deleted the Plesk database, and no issues with either Interworx or DirectAdmin other than standard usability issues. cPanel just breaks every once in awhile. There are scripts that seem to fix most of the issues, but does that really give you confidence, they have scripts that fix common problems, why can't they just make the software work so those common problems don't occur??

    It is true, most of the problems are small and easy to fix, but as we need to support them, I'd prefer that those problems don't happen in the first place, as it is generally us, not the user of the server, who ends up fixing it. Considering that cPanel is also the most expensive CP out there, I would think it should have most of those issues worked out...

    Note: Some of the issue may also be that more of the newer, less knowledgable, clients pick cPanel which thus leads to more issues, as they aren't used to admining a cPanel box. Also, the amount of software it installs and the amount of resources it consumes by default is crazy, this is most noticable in smaller VPS plans, where all the other CP's definitely out-perform cPanel.
    Last edited by KarlZimmer; 08-26-2005 at 03:30 PM.
    Karl Zimmerman - Founder & CEO of Steadfast
    VMware Virtual Data Center Platform

    karl @ steadfast.net - Sales/Support: 312-602-2689
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  14. #39
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Connecticut
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    3,038
    We had an issue yesterday with a bug in the latest install of cpanel messing up new accounts being created but honestly in over two years there hasn't been anything that couldn't be fixed in less then a few minutes...

    If you are having that many issues with your server I would think something got messed up or overlooked during the installation. You might want to consider saving alot of time and just reinstalling it from scratch and going from there.

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
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    I think the upside of cPanel majorly over-rides the downside. A few people angry with it compared to several thousands who are very happy with it.. isn't a very good point.

    Thousands of hosts use cPanel, and are very happy with it. Having a very small number of complaints about it, does not make it crap.
    www.JGRoboMarketing.com / "Automate. Grow. Repeat"
    █ Office: (800) 959-0182 / A KEAP Certified Developer (KCD)

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    34
    I would have to recommend H-Sphere. Billing/Invoicing/Signup totally and completely integrated.

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    833
    Originally posted by ScreamingEaglePC
    Sounds like you and qwidjib0 both just picked up some poorly managed servers.
    These servers are from reasonably sized DCs that are popular here and not those tiny ones or resellers and they are fresh new servers.

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    78
    My thoughts on cpanel are these:

    1. They added to many features on top of bugs
    2. The fix cycle; Fix bugs and create more bugs and then patch bugs to create more bugs. Its never ending loop...
    3. They try to support too many platforms
    4. They should switch to a package management system for maintaining their releases based on the OS, rpm, deb etc..

    Yes, cpanel does work for 95% of the companies that use it and when it works it is great. However, I think they need to re-think their position and focus more on certain aspects of their product instead of the broad range they are doing now. my 2cents.. take it as you will..

    On a related note, www.interworx.info this control panel really has some future ahead of it.

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,040
    Originally posted by RealtorHost
    I think the upside of cPanel majorly over-rides the downside. A few people angry with it compared to several thousands who are very happy with it.. isn't a very good point.

    Thousands of hosts use cPanel, and are very happy with it. Having a very small number of complaints about it, does not make it crap.
    Based on this argument I would guess Internet Explorer is a lot better then every other browser due to its market share.

    My take on cpanel is it tends to overtake the system so the procedure to have another go is format, the procedute to uninstall it is format. It isnt just a frontend for end user's which is what I would expect a control panel to do but instead it handles server administration tasks, causing the scenario monkey mentioned.

    Of course they have jam packed it with so many features that are just not needed in a control panel they will end up with increased amount of bugs.

    Bottom line is people still like cpanel because they might not like the sight of a command line, or they are just used to it and like the way it works, everyone to their own way of doing things.

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    North Yorkshire, UK
    Posts
    4,164
    Well I've just handed details over to cPanel, and interestingly enough they "can't see" the server.
    My last e-mail sent 35 minutes ago was to inform them of another box in London they can use to "proxy ssh" through ... haven't heard anything since, are they trying to get out of it?

    Anyone who's got a spare minute care to query 69.90.120.10 port 22? I can see it from almost anywhere ...
    █ Dan Kitchen | Technical Director | Razorblue
    █ ddi: (+44) (0)1748 900 680 | e: dkitchen@razorblue.com
    █ UK Intensive Managed Hosting, Clusters and Colocation.
    █ HP Servers, Cisco/Juniper Powered BGP Network (AS15692).

  21. #46
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,834
    cPanel is like buying a Jaguar. Great cars to own - but you better know a good mechanic .

    I can SSH to your IP.
    Ray Womack @ atOmicVPS LTD
    Linux & Windows Cloud Hosting Solutions Powered by OnApp
    Fully Managed [Shared][Reseller][Cloud VPS] [Dedicated]
    Featuring the atOmicSTACK ● Speed ● Performance ● Reliability

  22. #47
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    2,004
    I just recently went to hosting controller and I couldn't be happier so far. I realise it's linux vs windows however as far as the control panel itself I find hosting controller to suit my needs much more than cpanel.

    Also, rebuildXpress is really nice. It runs in the background and constantly backups your data so if you have something go wrong you won't lose days or weeks worth of clients data. It will even restore the last known good configuration.

    Like everyone says, there is no best control panel. However, I've been using CPanel for two years now and I find myself liking hosting controller a whole lot more.

  23. #48
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    Jan 2002
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,040
    dan there is a password prompt but then the server doesnt respond? possible dns issue perhaps.

    ahh responded after small delay.

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    3,374
    what if there is only one version of Linux thus it's easy to manage and update? like Windows and Mac OS, one version of Linux, opensorced and release by one non profit group 'cause it sound like cpanel also have problem with different version of linux. maybe it's time to release just one distro for all.

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    179
    Anyone who thinks software out of the box should just work is a dreamer. No offence.

    I deal with a lot of enterprise software on a daily basis, like WebSphere, WebLogic, Vignette etc.... Not ever will you see these applications just magically work out of the box. Each requires tuning, customizations and in a lot of cases "special tricks" from the vendor's to get them working on the different supported O/S's and DB's. These are 5 and 6 figure costing applications and they have these issues, and you expect a $65/mth software like cPanel to be better? Not likely.
    http://www.f5hosting.com | http://www.myvirtualhosting.com
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