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  1. #1

    EV1Servers.net - a mistake I'll never made again

    I signed up with them yesterday. Today I called them 20 hours after I placed the order yesterday asking what happened to my sign up. The person I spoke with verified my name and credit card info and said my account will be ready in 15 mins. 3 Hours later I checked my email and found that EV1 sent me an email, but it's not an email containing log on information. It was an email asking me to fax or email my legal photo ID to them. That's pretty disappointing. I should be receiving an account confirmation email. My previous hosts never required me to send the ID. I understood that they needed it but I didn't want to do that. I should enjoy my new server by now as they promised. Why do I need to do that? If they didn’t trust me, why should I do business with them?

    So I called EV1 to make sure my credit card has not been charged. I wanted to canceled the order. I talked with a sales rep. named John who kept telling me that I have to do the cancellation online. I tired very hard to get him listen to me. I told him that I was not even a customer and I didn't have a user name and a password to log on to their system to cancel. He didn't know how to help and said that's the process. What? I tried to get an answer and he put me on hold. Then I found out my call was transferred. I have to repeated the story to a lady. She almost said nothing and transferred my call to another lady. OK I repeated the story again and she almost said nothing and transferred my call back to John, a sales rep. He told me I have to do the cancellation with customer service. My call was transferred again and I have to repeat my story again with a guy. I asked him who am I speaking with. He said you're speaking with a customer service. OK well, I didn't know your name was a secret (I didn't say that off course). Anyway this guy tried to verify me and put me on hold.

    It has been 20 minutes that I was in the loop. I was making an international long distance call. The call would cost me a lot! He put me on hold for 10 minutes (and that's the 10 mins I'm typing this text). Yes, it's 30 mins by now and it's totally unacceptable. I hung up the call and glad that I am not doing business with these people. They were not friendly and were not helpful at all. I hope that I won’t see the charge on my credit, or if I see it, I will just report it as a disputed item. What a waste of time.
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  2. #2
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    I think EV1 does warn you about having to fax an ID to them at signup (to prevent fraud orders) before you place your order. I don't like EV1 much at all, and definatly would not reccomend them. When I call a datacenter I want the techs to know what they are talking about, and to not have to transfer me to 6 different departments (1 or 2 transfers is ok).
    Just my thoughts...
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  3. #3
    Faxing some documents is pretty common for international orders...
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  4. #4
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    Originally posted by Walter
    Faxing some documents is pretty common for international orders...
    I got requested to fax documents to The Planet, and I'm in Canada which is right beside them o.O
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  5. #5
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    Re: EV1Servers.net - a mistake I'll never made again

    Originally posted by aska
    I signed up with them yesterday. ....................3 Hours later I checked my email and found that EV1 sent me an email............It was an email asking me to fax or email my legal photo ID to them............ I understood that they needed it but I didn't want to do that..........
    Here, I cut the BS out of your post. Have NO FEAR, EV1 will not charge your card. This is the reason for the verification process in the first place. NO FAX, NO CHARGE. Just that simple.

    EV1 is a very fine company. You don't agree with their policies, you cannot do business with them. Just that simple.
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  6. #6
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    thats the way we do business no fax no server or charge.
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  7. #7
    I dont know why you are shy
    Unless you are picky and you are not satisfied with your ID foto(aka you made it after 3 days of hangover),i dont see any valid reason to be against sending an ID copy via fax/email.
    You just pulled your cc in a sistem that you dont know but you dont want to send your ID?
    Unless something is not matching there..........
    And yes,this is pretty common practice,go read the rate of cc fraud.
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  8. #8
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    It always amazes me how people who have absolutely legit cards, and nothing to hide, will not provide the requested information to a reputable company in order to use the requested services. Sure, it sounds like their call center personnel could use a bit of work, but you're upset over the whole ID situation. Did EV1 ever bother to ask you for your ID info before you called, though?
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  9. #9
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    As long as your card wasn't charged, I don't see this as being a big deal. Like PSFServers said, fax them the info.. or move on.
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  10. #10
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    Re: EV1Servers.net - a mistake I'll never made again

    Originally posted by aska
    My previous hosts never required me to send the ID.
    I just couldn't miss another shot. The "previous host didn't........"

    When I hear stuff like this, I open up a conversation with SELF:

    PSF: "We need a fax of your identification to verity your order.
    CUSTOMER: "Well, our other host didn't make us do this."
    SELF: " Hummmm, this guy doesn't wanna send a fax to verify his order."
    SELF: "Hummmm, I wonder if his network is full of bogus DDos risks, spammers, and other bandwidth hogs."
    SELF: "Hummmmm, there's gotta be a is a reason why he is leaving."
    SELF: "Hummmmm, how hard is it to fax identification."
    SELF: "Hummmmm, wonder if he is one of these bad apples that nobody wants to do business with."
    SELF: "Hummmmm......"

    Of course, I'm beling silly, but it does make you stop and scratch your head....
    Last edited by RayWomack; 08-03-2005 at 04:03 PM.
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  11. #11
    Originally posted by Walter
    Faxing some documents is pretty common for international orders...
    What about those of us that dont ahve fax machines, to be hounest i wouldnt be prepared to do business with a company that goes out of thier way to be difficult and asks for photo id, if its a credit card then the merchants tools cover any fraud. Visa/Mastercard will absord any loss made (happened to my dad's export business when someone bought 20k worth of car parts for shipment to Africa with a stollen CC).
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  12. #12
    @BSD2

    EV1 require a copy of your photo ID.But you can always scan email it.I assume that at the point you are after a server,you do have a scanner.
    Anyway,when i got my first server at EV1 ,i did email a copy of my ID by mail.I just told that rep that i dont use a fax ,i dont have a fax and for sure not plan to buy one just to send an ID .
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  13. #13
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    Originally posted by BSD2
    Visa/Mastercard will absord any loss ......
    Yes, and no. You pay a discount rate on purchases plus transaction fees for the priviledge of processing credit cards. V/MC/AMEX + your merchant bank will just pass this back to you at the end of the day on bugus charges.

    The amount of online fraud in this business is frightening. I'm glad to see online merchants tightening up to save us all the cost of doing business on the internet.

    I have no problem with it at all. It keeps the cost of ME doing business by taking credit cards online low.
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  14. #14
    PSFServers, when you get some more experience with banks come back, until then dont comment. If the customer uses an online facility to pay by credit card, where they themselves enter thier card details (like the tools provided by all major UK banks), then if the card was ifnact stollen, but the details did check out (they are asked card number, address, date of birth etc - atleast with the barclays tool, as thats the only one Ive seen used due to dad's business) then it is amex/visa/maestro that absord the charge, visa did that to 20k pounds due to parts having been already shipped to guinea besau (sp?), and they did not complain, they merely checked that the client (my dad's company) knew nothing of this fraud, which was true as it was my dad that alerted barclays, due to recieving a phonecall from someoen who claimed it was thier card used.
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  15. #15
    Originally posted by BSD2
    PSFServers, when you get some more experience with banks come back, until then dont comment. ...................- atleast with the barclays tool, as thats the only one Ive seen used due to dad's business) .
    Take it like a pretty polite advice..............:Go ask your dad again.
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  16. #16
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    We operate the same way, no fax, no server.

    Also the person who said the CC company will absob the charges, you obviously don't know anything about processing credit cards.
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  17. #17
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    Originally posted by BSD2
    PSFServers, when you get some more experience with banks come back, until then dont comment.
    Let's pretend you didn't say this.

    1.) To process credit cards via a Merchant Account you must pass a credit check.

    2.) You are under scrutiny of your Merchant Bank and your transactions are periodically reviewed. If you process a high amount of fraudulent transactions, or give a large amount of charge backs, your rates can go up, or your Merchant Bank can drop you all together.

    3.) Customers do not pay the fees for credit card transactions, WE do, meaning the person who has passed the credit check, the person who is financially responsible.

    4.) A company with a merchant account does not have Carte Blanche (nice term, huh) to process fradulent orders. Even if Visa/Amex anybody will cover these charges in a P&L statement.

    5.) Since the cost of doing business is passed back to the person that holds the merchant account, and there is a contractual liablity with costs and penalties involved for accepting fraudelent orders, it is generally in the best interest of the holder of the merchant account to protect the financial interest of the bank issuing the merchant account.

    Questions?
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  18. #18
    The fees are relatively small, and why would you have a high rate of chargebacks, if the service a customer is promiced is delivered then no chargeback will suceed, and if the person is old enough to have a credit card, they would not be kids trying to charge you back, thats more of a problem with paypal.

    "4.) A company with a merchant account does not have Carte Blanche (nice term, huh) to process fradulent orders." No-one said you process fradulent orders, but photo ID is silly, I would point blank refuse to send them photo ID, I'll be happy to give them my UK passport number and they can go find methods to check it themselves (UK electoral register perhaps), equally they can come open an office in UK and I can show them my passport, but there are plenty of better companies out there who dont need me to show them a photograph, hell I dont need to fax a photograph if I get a CC online to the UKbanks, they use the electoral register.
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  19. #19
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    Originally posted by BSD2
    "4.) A company with a merchant account does not have Carte Blanche (nice term, huh) to process fradulent orders." No-one said you process fradulent orders, but photo ID is silly, I would point blank refuse to send them photo ID, I'll be happy to give them my UK passport number and they can go find methods to check it themselves (UK electoral register perhaps), equally they can come open an office in UK and I can show them my passport, but there are plenty of better companies out there who dont need me to show them a photograph, hell I dont need to fax a photograph if I get a CC online to the UKbanks, they use the electoral register.
    The bottom line is, if you point blank refuse to provide the information requested, then you point blank choose to find someone else to do business with.

    EV1's business practice is pretty standard in this industry. If you don't like it, then find someone else to do business with.... as your post said, there are plenty of other businesses that don't need you to show them a photocopy, feel free to do as much business as you like, with them.

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  20. #20
    Originally posted by PSFServers
    Let's pretend you didn't say this.

    1.) To process credit cards via a Merchant Account you must pass a credit check.

    2.) You are under scrutiny of your Merchant Bank and your transactions are periodically reviewed. If you process a high amount of fraudulent transactions, or give a large amount of charge backs, your rates can go up, or your Merchant Bank can drop you all together.

    3.) Customers do not pay the fees for credit card transactions, WE do, meaning the person who has passed the credit check, the person who is financially responsible.

    4.) A company with a merchant account does not have Carte Blanche (nice term, huh) to process fradulent orders. Even if Visa/Amex anybody will cover these charges in a P&L statement.

    5.) Since the cost of doing business is passed back to the person that holds the merchant account, and there is a contractual liablity with costs and penalties involved for accepting fraudelent orders, it is generally in the best interest of the holder of the merchant account to protect the financial interest of the bank issuing the merchant account.

    Questions?
    Good job in formulating this post. Looks like you will get people to side with you now! Your back in the match, make sure they don't hit you with a right hook.
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  21. #21
    Sometimes i do think that IRC can poison your mind and change your attitude at the point of giving lessons and wise advices when your only base of knowledge is just "dad's experiences"
    Just my 2 cents
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  22. #22
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    Originally posted by BSD2
    What about those of us that dont ahve fax machines, to be hounest i wouldnt be prepared to do business with a company that goes out of thier way to be difficult and asks for photo id, if its a credit card then the merchants tools cover any fraud. Visa/Mastercard will absord any loss made (happened to my dad's export business when someone bought 20k worth of car parts for shipment to Africa with a stollen CC).
    *disagrees*

    merchants absorb fraud, part of cost of doing business... merchant's job is to lower it as close to nil as possible
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  23. #23
    I do respect all comments about the fax. I am aware that companies have different policies.

    My points here in this post:
    EV1's poor customer service. Sales rep. tried to ignored me and kept telling that I have to cancel the account online. I have to explain (several times) that I was not going to cancel the account but I was trying to cancel the order. I have no account and I have no user name and password to log on to cancel the account. He didn't know what to do but transfering my call to the 2nd person who didn't know what to do but transfer the call to 3rd person who also didn't know what to do but transfer back to the first person. I have to tell the same story to each people.

    DO THEY HAVE A TRAINING? This is just a simple request. At least they should ask their supervisor nearby.

    I ended up at the 4th person who asked me almost the same questions as the first person. Then this person left me on hold forever. I had talked with 4 people and no one were friendly. I can't imagine what will happen if I host with them and got into a server problem in the future.

    Well, just want to share my experience and didn't intend to bring up the fax issue that is being a hot topic now.
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  24. #24
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    Seems some things never change...

    PSFServers: Here, I cut the BS out of your post.
    That's not very nice. In fact, I find that sentence offensive, and I don't even know you. You might be a wonderful human being who just doesn't know how your words will be perceived by others, but I've already formed a negative first impression of you. A person comes to WHT to express his frustration, which to me seems sincere, and you're telling him you consider most of his post BS? Where's your manners? How can you refer to the "Be Polite Rule" after making posts that I don't perceive to be very polite with regards to aska's concerns? I say this will all due respect, knowing that my impressions of your remarks are simply unfiltered subjective responses, and that you in fact may not even be aware of how others may perceive your comments.

    Several years ago I considered EV1 as a provider. Wasn't asked at that time for a fax, but things have changed, and I understand the policy, especially for International orders. But I didn't sign up with them because I found the customer support not "user friendly". No big deal. Just went somewhere else.

    But aska seems genuinely frustrated by a process that seems to have transformed his expectations from the intitial excitement that some of us have when ordering a new server (I still get it) to an emotional disappointment which could have been avoided if the first phone service rep, who stated that the account would be ready in 15 minutes, had taken a few seconds to investigate why 20 hours had elapsed in the first place, then informed aska that he needed to send the fax.
    PSFServers: Have NO FEAR, EV1 will not charge your card. This is the reason for the verification process in the first place. NO FAX, NO CHARGE. Just that simple.
    If it's "just that simple", why didn't any one of the several reps involved in the phone shuffle simply tell aska that simple fact?

    aska: If they didn’t trust me, why should I do business with them?
    It's not that they don't trust "you", it's that they don't know if "you" are really "you" until they receive some verification. After they know "you" are "you", then they can and should trust you. But we never know who's at the other end of the connection until we get some "hard copy" or other method of verification.

    Webfactor: You just pulled your cc in a sistem that you dont know but you dont want to send your ID? Unless something is not matching there...
    Should I read a subtle implied accusation in this comment that aska might be hiding something? Of course it's possible that any one of us might be hiding something, but it seems illogical to me that someone who is hiding something would come to WHT and shine such a bright light on that which is meant to be kept hidden.

    Webfactor: I assume that at the point you are after a server,you do have a scanner.
    Why would you even make such an assumption? Why would someone have to have a scanner if they are at the point of ordering a server? One of my design clients employs several people at his company, which has been successfully doing business for 28 years, and he doesn't have a scanner. He could purchase every server you own, if you own any, and still wouldn't need a scanner. He has a fax, but he doesn't have a scanner. I have a scanner, but I have never in six years used it for scanning my photo ID. I use it for web design work. I have a few servers, but never needed a scanner in place before I considered myself "server-worthy".

    PSFServers: I just couldn't miss another shot.
    You seem to enjoy "taking shots" at people. I find that a very unusual way to be helpful.

    I came here looking for a couple more servers. When I read certain comments posted by various individuals, it helps me scratch various companies, if they offer servers, off my list immediately. No one out there is doing me a favor by letting me pay for a server.

    Business is business, yes. And fraud is rampant, yes. But must we live in a world where potentially honest people are suspect by default? If so, it won't matter in the long run how successful any of us are in business if we have to live in a dark world of mistrust and suspicsion. That world is one where we have everything money can buy, except humanity.

    I can agree that security measures need to be in place when doing business anywhere, but I can't agree with anyone who believes that patience, courtesy and gratitude for new business is no longer an important concept when establishing a company-customer relationship. For me, that's become the point of this thread.
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  25. #25
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    Originally posted by BSD2
    The fees are relatively small, and why would you have a high rate of chargebacks, if the service a customer is promiced is delivered then no chargeback will suceed, and if the person is old enough to have a credit card, they would not be kids trying to charge you back, thats more of a problem with paypal.
    If my girlfriend works for one of the largest banks in the world does that give me enough "bank cred" to reply to you?

    It's true that the issuing bank of the CC will eat any charges for the fraud order, but for every chargeback the merchant is normally charged around $30. Doesn't matter if it's a $5 shared account or $1000 server.

    Most hosts don't get several chargebacks, but there is a reason for that...

    They actually verify orders

    When verifying an order using the information available to use online (name, address, phone, ip) if things don't look right, we need more verification to be able to process the order.

    And saying that most chargebacks are from kids using paypal shows how little you actually know about doing business.
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  26. #26
    @ the-muse.
    Yes you are right.
    You can read a subtle implied acusation.
    Everyone who is trying to hide something or avoinding to reveal his identity while doing business must know that his chances to make a deal are plain reduced to 10%.

    BTW ,to be genuinely frustrated by a identification process while doing online payments is a nonsense
    Just imho.
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  27. #27
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    Re: Seems some things never change...

    Originally posted by the-muse
    That's not very nice. In fact, I find that sentence offensive, and I don't even know you. You might be a wonderful human being who just doesn't know how your words will be perceived by others, but I've already formed a negative first impression of you.
    I humbly accept your criticism.

    I have a sharp tongue, and an equally wicked sense of humor. Many of my observations are tongue-in-cheek. Please consider that the written word in the context of a forum thread sometimes loses its meaning, or intention.

    That being said, EV1 is one of the best companies anyone can deal with. I have a long standing relationship with EV1 that transcends more than business - these people truely are my dear friends.

    The original poster, while his situation is frustrating, has no argument if you review the facts.

    1.) EV1 is still a budget provider. They provide a great service at affordable prices. Similar to shopping at Wal-mart. You get a great product at a great price. Do I have some dweeb at the checkout line? Yes. But I don't complain, I know what I'm buying. If I want Rackspace, I shop at Central Market.

    2.) EV1 is cookie cutter. They have rules, procedures, and policies. If you do not want a mass producted product, it is not for you. My dear Headsurfer told me once, "EV1 is not for everybody". He lives by that. He gives a damn good product at a damn good price. He want's the 80% of the market, and get's it.

    3.) If you don't wanna fax a card, don't run to WHT crying.

    There, I don't know if my first post, or this post was more palatable for you, my friend, but nonetheless, it is the TRUTH.
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  28. #28

    Re: Re: Seems some things never change...

    Originally posted by PSFServers
    3.) If you don't wanna fax a card, don't run to WHT crying.
    Its not a card, its a page of my passport (or drivers license), and both of those involve digging up as I know both numbers by heart
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  29. #29
    Dude, think of it this way. If someone stole your credit card.. and went off and bought 700 servers... wouldn't you pray that the company would ask for a copy of their ID to show ownership of YOUR credit card? Don't complain. I understand the wait time and that is definitly wrong, but as for the ID part, you should have just sent it if you wanted a server.
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  30. #30
    I prefer to verify by phone only, I can not trust to fax my cc and ID (togeather) to any one, even a servers provider, CC and ID copy can do a lot and overall you never see which hands will get it in the other side.

    since 3 years or so, I faxed my CC and ID to theplanet and in the same day I faxed them to Joker.com, within 24 hours I lost good amount of money in bulk domain registrations with american company ... bad sales rep at theplanet or joker stole my cc ofcourse.
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  31. #31
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    Originally posted by BSD2
    PSFServers, when you get some more experience with banks come back, until then dont comment.
    I have a merchant account. You do not http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showth...threadid=73106
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  32. #32
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    It's a normal procedure to ask for ID. It's just to verify an order and to check for fraud.

    But I understand the thread starter's frustration. I think he was more frustrated at customer service than at the fact that he had to send a copy of his ID.

    Some people don't like to send a copy of their ID. That does not mean that they are hiding something. They don't have a fax. They have to do the extra work of scanning the ID. They feel offended by the suspicion. They don't like to exhibit their photo. But I agree with the-muse: any spammer or scammer would not come here and public this experience, if he had something to hide.

    I've sent my ID. If I'm going to do business with a dedicated server provider, that has a good reputation, why shouldn't I send my ID? I'm going to trust him with my clients... Why shouldn't I trust him my ID?
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  33. #33
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    Some people who are genuine dont have id, at least in the uk where we still awaiting needed id cards. This is where I feel the problem comes in, there are better ways to validate if a card is valid, the id can be stolen with the card and you not going to be meeting the person so photo id over the internet is pretty much non productive, it also doesnt stop chargebacks.
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  34. #34
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    Originally posted by Chrysalis
    Some people who are genuine dont have id, at least in the uk where we still awaiting needed id cards. This is where I feel the problem comes in, there are better ways to validate if a card is valid, the id can be stolen with the card and you not going to be meeting the person so photo id over the internet is pretty much non productive, it also doesnt stop chargebacks.
    Some people that go down to the corner liquor store and try to buy a fifth are are also genuine.

    Sure, I think everyone knows that. I still have to show ID to get a pack of smokes, or drive a car, or buy booze, or get on an air plane.

    I think turning over the keys to a server should require some sort of ID. I get an Ebay, Paypal, or other spam fraud in my email box every day. Fraud on the internet is rampent, including the purchase of a server with no commitment that leaves providers high and dry.

    There are just certain things you have to do in this world that requires an ID; I think owning a server is one of them.
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  35. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    623
    Originally posted by Chrysalis
    Some people who are genuine dont have id, at least in the uk where we still awaiting needed id cards. This is where I feel the problem comes in, there are better ways to validate if a card is valid, the id can be stolen with the card and you not going to be meeting the person so photo id over the internet is pretty much non productive, it also doesnt stop chargebacks.
    Just curious. In UK, if you buy some grocery with credit card, do you need to show some kind of ID?

    By the way, if someone's physical card got stolen, it is likely that it is reported and the card is no longer valid. Most of the fraud happens when the credit card information (number, expiration date, card id) gets stolen without the owner knowing it.
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  36. #36
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    silicon and earthquakes
    Posts
    255
    Those of you that require a copy of a photo id, would you accept a photo id with number blanked out? Just curious.
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  37. #37
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Oz
    Posts
    3,498
    PSF and many others have said the solution before: If you don't like the fact that EV1 requires a photo ID then move on! There are other companies that don't require photo ID's out there... their just a WHT Search or Google Search away.
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  38. #38
    Originally posted by peanutbutter
    Dude, think of it this way. If someone stole your credit card.. and went off and bought 700 servers... wouldn't you pray that the company would ask for a copy of their ID to show ownership of YOUR credit card? Don't complain. I understand the wait time and that is definitly wrong, but as for the ID part, you should have just sent it if you wanted a server.
    How does a photo prove ownership of card? and if someone fradulently uses my card, I will get the money back within a week from my bank, its one of thier services.

    Originally posted by peanutbutter
    Sure, I think everyone knows that. I still have to show ID to get a pack of smokes, or drive a car, or buy booze, or get on an air plane.
    You dont if you look old enough, I havent been asked for ID since I was 17 (and I could get awa with looking 18 then).

    Just curious. In UK, if you buy some grocery with credit card, do you need to show some kind of ID?
    Originally posted by peanutbutter
    Chip and PIN, you enter your PIN number into the little numberpad. And banks a I said aove cover any fraud and pay you backwithin a week (well Barclays do atleast).
    Last edited by BSD2; 08-04-2005 at 04:10 AM.
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  39. #39
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    42
    just for the record, a photocopy/FAX of an ID is not at *all* hard to fake in photoshop...
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  40. #40
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    WebHostingTalk
    Posts
    8,878
    I think this thread has run it's course... to the original poster, if you dont wish to fax in your ID, that's your choice, it is then EV1's (or any company's) choice not to provide you with service.

    Sirius
    I support the Human Rights Campaign!
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