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  1. #1

    socially responsible hosting

    I'm looking to switch hosts and registrars after the recent statements by Bob Parsons (GoDaddy). See bobparsons.com/ShouldwecloseGitmoNowayInsteadletsfixitRemembering9-11t.html

    I'd like to spend my money with a company has a track record of supporting righteous causes, or at least one that does business in a socially responsible way. I'm also interested in companies that have an ounce of respect for the First Amendment and that do not automatically roll over every time Uncle Sam demands server logs with no good reason. (My own site is completely apolitical; I'm just looking to support a company that does good in this world.)

    Please share your stories, or stories you've encountered around the web.
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  2. #2
    I guess alot of that depends on your viewpoint of what is "socially responsible" socially responsible for a conservative and socially responsible for a liberal are COMPLETELY different things.
    *AlphaOmegaHosting.Com* - Hosting since 1998
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  3. #3
    Not to get us off track, but I disagree that "social responsibility" is completely different for conservatives and liberals. Sure, we disagree on some issues, but we also agree on many. For example, both the left and the right can support development of new energy sources, so that the U.S. is less dependent on foreign oil and reduces pollution at the same time.

    [OT: One scary part of American politics today is that we're painted as being so opposed, but for no good reason. After all, we're all going to have to build the future of this country together, so we might as well try to work out some of these differences. Some politicians, e.g., John McCain, Hillary Clinton, recognize this, and make strides to unite us, and some take hard stands that wedge us apart.]

    Personally, I have a bias (and I'm sure you could figure it out), but I"m interested in companies that take a stand in whatever direction.

    By the way, does anyone have any opinions on the quality/reliability of ThinkHost (thinkhost.com)?
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  4. #4
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    Well.... haven't thought of this issue (been mainly concerned with the customer satisfaction records of hosts) - but come to think of it, I know DreamHost does encourage people to donate to various causes...
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  5. #5
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    I believe fully in giving business to those who share my personal ideologies, philosophies, and moral/ethical standards over those who don't whenever possible and/or whenever given a choice, as well as taking my business away from those who don't. These aren't always the easiest of choices where financial considerations come into play, but they do allow me to sleep at night.

    -Bob
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  6. #6
    Namecheap.com are a fantastic registrar. Give them a go.
    YourCheapHost.com - Low cost multi domain hosting solutions. [Legal adult content friendly]
    Reliable web site hosting is our motto. We have Alertra stats to back that up.
    Proven provider of high quality shared and reseller accounts since 2002.
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  7. #7
    net-trend, do you have any stories of Namecheap supporting social causes, or do you just like them in general?
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  8. #8
    TMX, have you looked into what your host/registrar supports? Please share.
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  9. #9
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    I'd be specifically interested in hearing what it is about Bob Parson's words you found irresponsible.

    I'm not American, and read his words (from your link) with great interest. I can certainly see how some of his words are politically loaded but ... can't quite identify what you found irresponsible.

    He's advocating;
    Patriotism: Ok 9/11 was an attack, largely against Americans, on American soil by foreigners. Ok maybe I don't personally think US soil is sacred, but its certainly not irresponsible for Bob (who is American) to suggest this, and its certainly in line with someone who has passionate feelings of loyalty towards his nation.

    The use of a US Naval Base in support of military operations: Ok so "the war on terror" is highly controversial. Although US courts have denied the commander-in-chief the right to treat terrorists as "enemy combatants", it has upheld the idea that the "war on terror" is a military operation.

    Within a democracy, the way to resolve conflict is to use the court system. The status of "the war on terror" was resolved according to democratic principles in a court as a military operation. Again, I'm looking as an outsider, but it seems to me the US system is working as intended (though I may not necessarily agree with how its working). I cannot see how anything so far is irresponsible.

    Finally, and perhaps most importantly, he comments on who is at Gitmo and how they are treated. It was felt that when the US started catching its quarry, it would be too dangerous to bring those people to the US (risk threat analysis against the possibility of escape). Because of this, a claim is made that these people are being deprived of their rights under US law. This decision seems to be a pretty sound decision from a military perspective though it may be politically explosive.

    We'll as we've seen, though the "war on terror" is legally a military operation, its prisoners do have rights which have been protected by the same court.

    Furthermore, US Navy bases are considered US soil though they are abroad so the same rules apply despite political claims to the contrary. This is why Cuba has never attacked the US Navy's base in Cuba directly (for to do so would be considered a direct attack against the US just as 9/11 was a "declaration of war").

    If wrong doing is happening at Gitmo, citizens of the US have the ability, and the mechanism to deal with this in the court system. Interrogation, is a fact of combat , and a legal method of obtaining informatin that is goverened by international rules. The US is, as far as I know, a signatory to these international rules, I cannot see how any of this is irresponsible.

    I can see how it is political.

    These are my comments as an outsider that is neither a democrat nor a republican (or for that matter even American). It seems to me that despite the politics the decisions that have been made that Bob Parson is supporting are both legal (in US terms), reasonable (from an American perspective) and patriotic. And though political, his words don't seem all that irresponsible given his apparent politics.

    You may oppose Bob's politics but again, if you vote you have a mechanism for dealing with even that. Perhaps you should be asking if anyone knows of a host that has different political stripes than Bob's.

    Cheers
    Jeff
    Last edited by idologicJeff; 08-03-2005 at 08:38 PM.
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  10. #10
    idologicJeff, I think a discussion of the specifics of Bob Parsons and Guantanamo here would be off-topic. Instead, I'm much more interested in the larger question of hosts that endorse points of view or causes. If you're curious about why some people disagree with Mr Parsons, I suggest you could look here: google.com/search?q=godaddy+guantanamo

    Someone mentioned that Dreamhost encourages people to donate; I've heard similar positive things about Dreamhost, but never specifics. If you could point to charities Dreamhost endorses, that'd be great.
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  11. #11
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    Fair enough, and quite right. I was curious, but I agree with your comments.

    Thanks for the google link - it will provide some interesting reading for a bit.

    Cheers
    Jeff
    www.idologic.com
    www.demologic.com
    A company committed to people serious about their websites - If you don't DO LOGIC - what do you do?Check Us Out
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  12. #12
    Find out who is hosting the terrorist sites. Surely they are in favor of making sure the terrorists at Gitmo are not treated like um... terrorists.
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  13. #13
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    I like hosts the uphold good principles like speed, security, reliability, and value for the money.

    If I want to donate to a cause, then I donate to it. I don't want any host (or any other business) charging a premium for "social" responsibility projects.
    Rich
    WebsiteMaven - Web Hosting Reviews, Guides, and Advice to Build and Promote your Web Site
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  14. #14
    I look at it this way. My companies purpose is to provide hosting and income for me. It's not some platform for spouting my political agenda and any company that takes a stand left or right doesn't get my business.

    I'm not interested in some companies views on saving the whales or on Gitmo or On Bush or whatever shoved in my face like GoDaddy thinks it has to..because Parson's only true purpose is publicity..nothing more...if he can create controversy, he creates free publicity.

    Yes, I'm a registered Republican. No I don't use my site to spout rightwing propoganda or my personal viewpoints. Some might think it's name is just that, but it's not. Although it has the word "capital" in it, refers to top-notch, excellent, etc, not Washington DC.

    The problem is when you start aligning your business with certain politicalized social causes you, IMHO, alienate half your customers. Sure some ppl don't want to do business with someone who's views are not same as theirs..to that I say grow up.

    I provide hosting. I don't care what your political viewpoints are as long as they don't cause my business any problems. I'll host liberal sites...I'll host conservative sites...don't matter to me as long as they pay and follow the rules.

    As for social causes, if you are going to start supporting them, best to pick causes that are fairly politically neutral as possible...Like say, the Red Cross, or my favorite, Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation...but stay away from politics...it's bad for business, unless of course your business caters to a particular agenda....

    And Jeff, very good analysis.
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  15. #15
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    There was an excellent opinion piece on this in The Economist a few months ago. You can read it here:

    http://www.economist.com/displaystor...ory_id=3555212

    A few excerpts:
    It would be a challenge to find a recent annual report of any big international company that justifies the firm's existence merely in terms of profit, rather than “service to the community”. Such reports often talk proudly of efforts to improve society and safeguard the environment—by restricting emissions of greenhouse gases from the staff kitchen, say, or recycling office stationery—before turning hesitantly to less important matters, such as profits. Big firms nowadays are called upon to be good corporate citizens, and they all want to show that they are.
    But what does it all amount to, really? The winners, oddly enough, are disappointed. They are starting to suspect that they have been conned. Civil-society advocates of CSR increasingly accuse firms of merely paying lip-service to the idea of good corporate citizenship. Firms are still mainly interested in making money, they note disapprovingly, whatever the CEO may say in the annual report. When commercial interests and broader social welfare collide, profit comes first. Judge firms and their CSR efforts by what the companies do, charities such as Christian Aid (a CSR pioneer) now insist, not by what they say—and prepare to be unimpressed.
    CSR cannot be a substitute for wise policies in these areas. In several little-noticed respects, it is already a hindrance to them. If left unchallenged, it could well become more so. To improve capitalism, you first need to understand it. The thinking behind CSR does not meet that test.
    Rich
    WebsiteMaven - Web Hosting Reviews, Guides, and Advice to Build and Promote your Web Site
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  16. #16

    * Real social sesponsibility means real committment to peace and justice

    There is no such thing as a politics-neutral company. None. Companies are made of people, and people have politics. The two are directly interconnected, and there is no way more powerful to make change than to vote with your dollars. My hat is off to Bob Parsons for being honest and upfront about his politics even though I could not disagree more with him and his insane justification of torture and other actions of this disgraceful, criminal, lying administration that is driving my country into the ground by taking away our civil liberties.

    Back to the point however -- I believe there are things that are more important than profit. Business without morality is as fatal to a democracy as the cancerous idea of growth for the sake of growth. In turn, those beliefs are directly translated to how ThinkHost does business. I want to take the time here to explain what it means to be a truly socially responsible company.

    ThinkHost is a progressive company, that believes in human rights, social justice, freedom and democracy. Each year, we donate many thousands of dollars in cash, services and time to social change causes around the world. We are proud to support the International Solidarity Movement (www.palsolidarity.org), a non-violent movement that aims to end the Israeli Occupation of Palestine, the War Resisters League, the Portland Peace and Justice Center (www.portlandpeace.org), Blue Dog Rescue, and many, many, many others. Essentially all of our profits are poured into social change work -- now there is a claim that very few companies will ever be able to beat. We are not here to make a profit -- we are here to make a difference.

    We further clearly believe in operating under the best sustainability principles that we can. Our entire staff "telecommutes" to work - no wasting of fossil fuels or contributing to global warming through trips to and from work. We use little in the way of paper as data is stored electronically. Most of our staff use notebook computers and low wattage lighting, reducing electricity requirements.

    One of our data centers is housed in a Boma Go Green certified building and the other is powered (7%) by wind power. The balance of the value of electricity our servers consume through non-renewable means is donated to environmental groups through the provision of free hosting. 2 of our staff offices are powered by 100% renewable energy via the purchase of green power credits.

    We have no shareholders, no other investors and no "fat-cat" members of management. We do not waste money on fancy automated marketing campaigns; our promotions are for the most part very personal - direct contact with potential clients and partners. Our revenue is distributed amongst our staff, put back into improving our services and also returned to the community through various sponsorships (see above).

    And for many of our team members, social responsibility extends beyond our business into our day-to-day lives. Some of our team are also involved in external activities such as human rights/refugee advocacy, peace initiatives, drug and alcohol counselling, environmental rehabilitation and the sponsorship of families in third world countries.

    Finally, I myself am a long-time activist, donating hundreds of hours every month to serving my community through the boards of directors on which I sit, through direct participation in grassroots democracy projects, and through my direct participatory support of the Green Party (www.gp.org). I am also a human rights activist, having spent time doing human rights observation and intervention in Palestine. A wilderness first responder with an additional certification in protest medicine, I have served as a first-aid action medic during the Republican National Convention protests in New York City.

    This is what makes ThinkHost unique, and this is what it means to be a truly socially responsible company. I dare my competitors to follow suit, as doing so will no doubt help create a better world. And before you choose your next webhost -- ask yourself whether you TRULY want to host with a company that supports war and global domination, or one that supports peace and justice.

    And if you didn't vote for Bush, ask yourself why you're sending your money to a company that supports his immoral insanity: vote with your dollars.

    With much respect,


    Vladislav Davidzon
    Founder and Executive Director
    ThinkHost, Inc.
    www.thinkhost.com
    Last edited by Vladislav; 08-14-2005 at 07:38 PM.
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  17. #17
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    Thanks for the thinkhost commercial and political diatribe.

    I'm glad you like the idea of using your profits to help people but I would just assume you pass on a lower price to me if I was your customer. I have philanthropic things I contribute to as well.

    If you're going to charge a premium for your service so you can support your causes then I think it would be fair to your consumers that you post the details of who you support with the money your customers give you since, after all, the profits are generated by their money.

    I, for one, am thankful you spelled out what your company supports so I can never accidentally contribute to any of the causes you find so helpful.

    You might want to add vitriol to your list of things your company supports.
    Rich
    WebsiteMaven - Web Hosting Reviews, Guides, and Advice to Build and Promote your Web Site
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  18. #18
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    I would suggest that you have a look at some sites around and ask them about their support. Also, have a read on their sites. Many company's will advertise their support.
    [color=#666666]Ackoo Solutions, LLC
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  19. #19

    Re: Real social sesponsibility means real committment to peace and justice

    Originally posted by thinkhost
    snipped (advertisment)
    Good luck on your ad. We at page-zone web hosting actually waste paper so they will hopefully plant more tree farms to supply our wastefull habit. I commute to my air conditioned office in a huge SUV which I drive aimlessly at least an hour a day doing nothing but wasting premium gasoline and looking out the window at the countryside.
    Last edited by page-zone; 08-14-2005 at 09:44 PM.
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  20. #20
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    I would like to note that social responsibility could be linked (perhaps inversely linked) with outsourcing of hosting support. Although there are two sides to the argument, I would be very careful in deciding which company would handle my customers support rather than just taking the cheapest. I believe that all workers should be paid fairly; customer service is the livelihood of a hosting business, or any business for that matter.
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  21. #21
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    I have to say that in my own opinion as well - defending the concentration camp at Guantanamo Bay is pretty ridiculous.

    That being said - I think this thread is absolutely hilarious.
    Corey Northcutt | Northcutt
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  22. #22
    Originally posted by qwidjib0
    I have to say that in my own opinion as well - defending the concentration camp at Guantanamo Bay is pretty ridiculous.

    That being said - I think this thread is absolutely hilarious.
    I agree. And it's a good thing we can ultimately express our opinion at the voting booth.
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  23. #23
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    Re: Real social sesponsibility means real committment to peace and justice

    Originally posted by thinkhost
    There is no such thing as a politics-neutral company. None.
    I disagree. In fact, the overwhelming majority of businesses I've dealt with in my lifetime have been quite good about not foisting the social/political beliefs of it's principals upon their customers. Business is about sales, and sales depend on not offending the potential customer. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but simply that it's just how it is.

    Personally, I like to know where companies I deal with stand on issues that are important to me, but it's not always the easiest bit of information to get out of them.

    I will say though, other than the rather self-congratulatory nature of your post and the fact that I don't agree with your politics n general, I give you high marks for walking the walk. It's a ballsy move in this day and age.

    -B
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  24. #24
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    There is no such thing as a politics-neutral company.
    While the individuals who work in the company may have political views, the company does not have to have any. In fact it shouldn't have any, because if the company declares itself right wing, it couldn't (due to its politics) hire left wing employees. Using such criteria when hiring would be against the law I believe.
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  25. #25
    Originally posted by DevilDog
    [B]Thanks for the thinkhost commercial and political diatribe.
    Yep, that was definitely a commercial and a long one. I'm sure if audio files were allowed we'd have heard some nice music too. I'm surprised it wasn't yanked.

    Anyone is free to line up their dollars with companies that support their point of view but aside of checking for terms and a few issues like pornography. warez etc - what are you going to do send out a questionaire? for all anyone knows Thinkhost could be supporting issues that you find irresponsible.
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  26. #26
    Wow, quite a few interesting responses...

    Originally posted by ldcdc
    While the individuals who work in the company may have political views, the company does not have to have any. In fact it shouldn't have any, because if the company declares itself right wing, it couldn't (due to its politics) hire left wing employees. Using such criteria when hiring would be against the law I believe.
    Many companies declare themselves to have certain political views. For example, MBNA was a major contributor to the Bush re-election campaign. ChristianWebHost.com clearly states which religion they support, etc. The fact that we take strong positions in support of peace and justice (or any political position) isn't particularly unique. What is unique about us is that we direct the overwhelming bulk of *our profits* towards those causes -- ie instead of me taking the profits and putting them in my pocket, we donate a *lot*.

    I think the real question here isn't about whether we'd hire someone with politics that differ from our own (We certainly would and have had staff with opposing perspectives) but whether that person would be okay with contributing to a company that clearly opposes what they believe. I've had staff who had problems with some of my positions (particularly on more thorny issues) and have quit over my position in fear that in the future we may donate money to those cause. Through that I have definitely learned that being sensitive to such issues is critical, but it is a fine line.

    As for this being a risky decision, I also disagree because the majority of this country opposes the insane policies of this administration. Many surveys clearly show that the majority of americans also believe in taking care of our environment, oppose privatization of social security, and stand in clear opposition to neo-conservative policies. After all, how can any sane person oppose peace and justice?

    Originally posted by DevilDog
    I like hosts the uphold good principles like speed, security, reliability, and value for the money.

    If I want to donate to a cause, then I donate to it. I don't want any host (or any other business) charging a premium for "social" responsibility projects.
    DevilDog, you are missing the point. It is not about charging a 'premium'. It is about how the profits are used -- instead of going into my pocket, they go towards making a difference.

    Originally posted by page-zone
    I agree. And it's a good thing we can ultimately express our opinion at the voting booth.
    Unfortunately I am not sure that you can. Considering we have two political parties dominating and limiting the scope of any real dialogue, and considering one of them has openly hijacked election after election, I am not sure how much a vote really does. And with Washington having all but been bought by big business, voting with your dollars directly hurts the companies that run the two-party system and actually has a good chance of making an impact.

    Protesting doesn't work either -- protests are easily ignored. However when citizens come together and create companies that directly compete and take away money from big business (or business that supports evil causes), that is protest that cannot be ignored. Change must come from the grassroots.

    Originally posted by TMX
    I don't agree with your politics n general, I give you high marks for walking the walk. It's a ballsy move in this day and age.
    I firmly believe that in these times, to remain silent about the grave crimes of this administration is to commit treason against my country. People should come before profits -- what is the *true* bottom line point of business, other than to improve people's lives?

    -Vladislav Davidzon
    Founder & Executive Director
    ThinkHost, Inc.
    www.thinkhost.com
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  27. #27
    That entire post was long a political ad (elections are over and the public decided) which was to be expected after the previous commercial ad. I see mods in this thread . Isn't this more suited to the lounge?
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  28. #28
    Originally posted by thinkhost
    Wow, quite a few interesting responses...



    Unfortunately I am not sure that you can. Considering we have two political parties dominating and limiting the scope of any real dialogue, and considering one of them has openly hijacked election after election, I am not sure how much a vote really does. And with Washington having all but been bought by big business, voting with your dollars directly hurts the companies that run the two-party system and actually has a good chance of making an impact.

    Protesting doesn't work either -- protests are easily ignored. However when citizens come together and create companies that directly compete and take away money from big business (or business that supports evil causes), that is protest that cannot be ignored. Change must come from the grassroots.



    I firmly believe that in these times, to remain silent about the grave crimes of this administration is to commit treason against my country. People should come before profits -- what is the *true* bottom line point of business, other than to improve people's lives?

    -Vladislav Davidzon
    Founder & Executive Director
    ThinkHost, Inc.
    www.thinkhost.com
    Liberals and socialists (if there is even a difference) don't think voting works and they think the elections are getting hijacked or rigged because all their rediculous ideas are getting rejected by the majority at the polls. It isn't hijacking by any stretch of the imagination, and the liberals have plenty of that (imagination). Protesting isn't working for the same reason. Because by a stroke of luck the ones with common sense seem to outnumber those with little or none these days. Take a look at who is sponsoring the so called protests. Communists and the hygienically challenged "joiners" who show up at these protests who haven't a clue why they are or who is sponsoring it and only seem to be there for good weed and dancing and a chance to get on tv.

    And if the current administration is commiting "grave crimes" I'm sure the courts will be on it. Trouble is, the administartion is abiding by the law and there will never be any trial for these so called grave crimes against humanity because they only exist in the imagination of leftists and communists, and the terrorists they support.

    And the TRUE bottom line in business is just that the bottom line . Beleive it or not thats what "bottom line" means.

    bottom line
    n.
    The line in a financial statement that shows net income or loss.

    Its all about the bottom line in business and the definition of bottom line just what is pasted above it isn't some perverted or slanted communist spin on what the meaning of the word should be.
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  29. #29
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    I think this thread probably belongs in the Lounge but as long as it's here...
    Originally posted by thinkhost
    Wow, quite a few interesting responses...

    Many companies declare themselves to have certain political views. For example, MBNA was a major contributor to the Bush re-election campaign. ChristianWebHost.com clearly states which religion they support, etc. The fact that we take strong positions in support of peace and justice (or any political position) isn't particularly unique. What is unique about us is that we direct the overwhelming bulk of *our profits* towards those causes -- ie instead of me taking the profits and putting them in my pocket, we donate a *lot*.
    Like I said, you can do whatever you want with your money. ChistianWebHost.com has a very descript name - no mistake what you're getting there. You might want to think about GreenPartyWebHost.com.
    Originally posted by thinkhost
    As for this being a risky decision, I also disagree because the majority of this country opposes the insane policies of this administration. Many surveys clearly show that the majority of americans also believe in taking care of our environment, oppose privatization of social security, and stand in clear opposition to neo-conservative policies. After all, how can any sane person oppose peace and justice?
    Exactly the reason why your ideas will never be mainstream because:

    1. You redefine what peace and justice are.
    2. Do not understand the majority of the American people who voted for the President.
    3. Demonize your opposition to make reasonable dialogue impossible.
    Originally posted by thinkhost
    DevilDog, you are missing the point. It is not about charging a 'premium'. It is about how the profits are used -- instead of going into my pocket, they go towards making a difference.
    I'm missing the point.

    I don't believe in bragging about my charitable contributions. Nor do I make it a point of telling other people how they should contribute their money. I use the money that I make, as a private citizen, to support causes that I believe in.

    Like I said, I'm glad you tell people that you do use your profits to support causes that many find questionable. I would not do business with you because I would just assume spend that money on more worth causes.

    Profits do not always go into pockets. They go into infrastructure, into hiring new people, expanding customer base, etc. While you don't call it a "premium", I do. I would just assume a company operate on the amount of profit they need to succeed and expand and continue to hire new people. It creates jobs - what a nice thing. It creates more people with income to contribute to their favorite causes.
    Originally posted by thinkhost
    Unfortunately I am not sure that you can. Considering we have two political parties dominating and limiting the scope of any real dialogue, and considering one of them has openly hijacked election after election, I am not sure how much a vote really does. And with Washington having all but been bought by big business, voting with your dollars directly hurts the companies that run the two-party system and actually has a good chance of making an impact.
    What stilts dialogue are bitter, deluded people that believe fairy tales more than facts and then repeatedly poison the water well. You prove yourself incapable of dialogue the moment you begin a dialogue about the political process and say "...hijacked election." Reasonable discussion over. Whacko here. I'm moving on. Time to talk to somebody who doesn't throw a temper tantrum every time political discussion comes up. I'm sure it's popular in your circle but middle America is growing weary of the constant whining noise.
    Last edited by DevilDog; 08-16-2005 at 01:15 AM.
    Rich
    WebsiteMaven - Web Hosting Reviews, Guides, and Advice to Build and Promote your Web Site
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  30. #30
    Interesting comments, indeed. The real question that ought to be asked -- is business truly about just making money? Historically speaking, corporations were given power to do business because it was believed that they advanced public interest and welfare -- unfortunately that history has all but been forgotten.

    However the point still remains -- is the point of life to make money? Aren't there things more important? Like ensuring your kids aren't slaughtered in a war over oil?

    The other key point is that ThinkHost clearly states what our politics are. We are a progressive company, that believes in peace and justice, and that contributes money to making a better world. That puts us, as a company, in a league of our own. Our competitors are there to make money, we're there to change the world. As a customer, which would you pick?

    All other issues aside (and we all brought up some interesting points that I think are a tad off-subject) -- we are stuck living in the same world. Whether you like it or not, we have to breathe the same air, drink the same water, and figure out some way to co-exist. You may not agree with my politics, but the simple fact of the matter is that you're stuck living with me, and at least 49% of this country which holds views similar to my own.

    I just passionately feel it is tremendously important to allow our potential customers the choice. If they did not vote for Bush (as 49% was it?) did not vote, and if they do not support the war (aren't the numbers in the high 60%'s now?), they should have the choice of not be supporting companies that either contribute to that war (any company that gave money to the Bush campaign), or companies that profit from it (Halliburton, Enron and the rest of 'em). On the same note, it is fair that customers who do not agree with our politics have the option of not spending their money with us. That choice is what ThinkHost is all about -- and I challenge my competitors to do the same -- to simply be open and transparent about their politics and the causes they support with their customer's money.
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  31. #31
    I thought your original challenge was for other hosts to give as much as you do. You say you work hundreds of hours a month on your causes and give them most of your money. Thats all fine but but why challenge others to do it. I personally don't think it is a challenge to give away all my money to useless causes that prop themselves up with catch phrases like "war for oil" and "Halliburton". And other bs like recycling my trash even though it is costs 10 times more to recycle almost everything than it does to make it from scratch. And don't get me started on the running out of landfill space and resources myth.

    You hate big business and the government, that is obvious. At the same time you use the charity angle as a marketing tool. I callenge you to call a spade a spade and admit it.
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  32. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Northern VA
    Posts
    1,582
    Originally posted by thinkhost
    Interesting comments, indeed. The real question that ought to be asked -- is business truly about just making money? Historically speaking, corporations were given power to do business because it was believed that they advanced public interest and welfare -- unfortunately that history has all but been forgotten.

    However the point still remains -- is the point of life to make money? Aren't there things more important? Like ensuring your kids aren't slaughtered in a war over oil?

    The other key point is that ThinkHost clearly states what our politics are. We are a progressive company, that believes in peace and justice, and that contributes money to making a better world. That puts us, as a company, in a league of our own. Our competitors are there to make money, we're there to change the world. As a customer, which would you pick?

    All other issues aside (and we all brought up some interesting points that I think are a tad off-subject) -- we are stuck living in the same world. Whether you like it or not, we have to breathe the same air, drink the same water, and figure out some way to co-exist. You may not agree with my politics, but the simple fact of the matter is that you're stuck living with me, and at least 49% of this country which holds views similar to my own.

    I just passionately feel it is tremendously important to allow our potential customers the choice. If they did not vote for Bush (as 49% was it?) did not vote, and if they do not support the war (aren't the numbers in the high 60%'s now?), they should have the choice of not be supporting companies that either contribute to that war (any company that gave money to the Bush campaign), or companies that profit from it (Halliburton, Enron and the rest of 'em). On the same note, it is fair that customers who do not agree with our politics have the option of not spending their money with us. That choice is what ThinkHost is all about -- and I challenge my competitors to do the same -- to simply be open and transparent about their politics and the causes they support with their customer's money.
    The difference between you and me is that I make a living protecting your civil liberties. You pretend to protect mine. I have no problem with people expressing themselves.

    Some of your points are reasonable and then the "crazy talk" has to take over and bring in Haliburton and stolen elections and the like. It is not I who force the dialogue into political insults but you and many like you who, instead of reasoning out their position, resort to emotionalism, talking points, and half-truths. You insult, repeatedly, the people you are supposedly trying to persuade. That is not a dialogue that is called by names such as ad hominem and "poisoning the well".

    "People who support Bush's policies are insane...." Oh, OK. Thanks for the input. Go sell crazy somewhere else. I think I'll talk to the people that aren't throwing a hissy fit right now.

    I get along fine with people across the political spectrum until the foam forms on the edges of their mouth and they cease to be able to dialogue honestly or reasonably.

    Support who you want. It's a free country. Life is more than money. I completely agree and, again, I laud you for spelling out who you contribute to - though you should be a bit more obvious that you are green party, left wing because you leave out some causes. You should also throw in some anti-Bush hate speech too so people know that is the particularly brand of political expression you find most appealing.
    Rich
    WebsiteMaven - Web Hosting Reviews, Guides, and Advice to Build and Promote your Web Site
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  33. #33
    Yeah, this thread seems a little off topic to web hosting ever since the thinkhost ad was posted.

    I heard somewhere that the Caterpillar corporation is a moraly bankrupt company for some reason. I forgot why though. Maybe thinkhost can shed some light on that evil big business company tearing down society. That'll be fun. I'll get the popcorn. But what kind of popcorn? I'd hate to accidentally choose a brand that is moraly bankrupt too. Making me just as much to blame. Damn, the world is just too complicated. I want off.
    Last edited by page-zone; 08-16-2005 at 05:24 AM.
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  34. #34
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    509
    I had over 100 domains registered with godaddy till last month. Due to unacceptable amount of BS that Bob Parsons has posted in his blog, I decided that I no longer want to do business with such a crack head. I vote with my money and I voted against godaddy. Now I have just 19 domains left with godaddy and I'll transfer those domains also to enom when it is time to renew them.

    Similarly, I read some threads on WHT lounge when I have time and I find the posts by some members like "sailor" in threads related to Iraq to be particularly disturbing and in bad taste. Last month when I needed a dedicated server, I decided not to take that server from GNAX because that member "sailor" is an employee (or owner?) of GNAX. Although they have decent reputation around here for providing reliable service but I think others like theplanet too also provide a decent service. My $250 or so won't make big difference to GNAX but that still matters to me because it gives me satisfaction of knowing that I am not doing business with such characters.
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  35. #35
    Enom. You better get ready to move again.

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm..._hamas23m.html
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  36. #36
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    329
    Originally posted by iThink
    I had over 100 domains registered with godaddy till last month. Due to unacceptable amount of BS that Bob Parsons has posted in his blog, I decided that I no longer want to do business with such a crack head. I vote with my money and I voted against godaddy.
    I just referred a former client to Bob this morning- they have well over thrice your domain inventory in just play domains and it just so happens we both concur that guitmo is a country club that could use a few more car batteries and wire- I just cancelled out your vote and added to Bob's war chest. Fortuitously, in this country influence and financial facility and a cerebrum often go hand in hand. It always seems to be the semi-educated and nary well-washed urchins that raise the standard of "social injustice, stolen elections, and whatever else passes for serverside thought push in the liberal (and I really love this word) "pinko" lexicon of the day. Thankfully their views, influence and commercial enterprises are irrelevant.
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  37. #37
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Northern Europe.
    Posts
    2,571
    Originally posted by jacktanner
    idologicJeff, I think a discussion of the specifics of Bob Parsons and Guantanamo here would be off-topic. Instead, I'm much more interested in the larger question of hosts that endorse points of view or causes. If you're curious about why some people disagree with Mr Parsons, I suggest you could look here: google.com/search?q=godaddy+guantanamo

    Someone mentioned that Dreamhost encourages people to donate; I've heard similar positive things about Dreamhost, but never specifics. If you could point to charities Dreamhost endorses, that'd be great.
    Well, I haven't followed this thread since it went off-topic. Everyone seems on their soap-boxes indeed....

    Re. current DreamHost charities:

    ---------------------- /quoted from DreamHost website/

    Katalysis supports small loans to low-income microentrepreneurs, providing resources they need to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps." 68% of their borrowers are women, and all of them are working toward economic/social self-reliance for themselves, their familes, and their communities.
    ......................................................

    The Community Technology Centers' Network (CTCNet) was founded on the recognition that in an increasingly technologically dominated society, people who are economically disadvantaged will be left further behind if they are not provided access to and training on information tools. CTCNet envisions a society in which all people are equitably empowered with these tools and is committed to achieving this end.

    CTCNet is a US-based network of more than 1000 organizations united in their commitment to improve the educational, economic, cultural and political life of their communities through technology. CTCNet provides resources and advocacy to improve the quality and sustainability of community technology centers and programs at the local, national and international level. CTCNet works together with its member organizations to provide networking, capacity building, program development, and partnership opportunities.
    -------------------------/quote end/

    -- these charities rotate periodically.

    Hope this answers your question.

    Web Hosting Reviews — based on real customer feedback
    77 Ways To More Traffic
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  38. #38
    Originally posted by page-zone
    I thought your original challenge was for other hosts to give as much as you do. You say you work hundreds of hours a month on your causes and give them most of your money. Thats all fine but but why challenge others to do it.
    My challenge is two-fold:

    a. Be open and transparent with who you support. Step up to the plate and allow your customers to choose not only based on the price/quality of your service, but your business ethics. Yes this means you will lose some customers, but the base you will gain will be far more loyal.

    b. Invest in your community and leave a legacy! You don't need to be supporting the causes that I support! That is a personal choice, dictated by one's morals and ethics. However the point is that this is *our* country and *our* world -- if we don't step up to the plate, no one else will.

    The point isn't the causes, as much as the action. Do something, whatever that something is. You don't want to get involved in politics, fine -- there are lots of politics-neutral causes you can support, but support SOMETHING, and do it all out.

    Originally posted by page-zone
    You hate big business and the government, that is obvious. At the same time you use the charity angle as a marketing tool. I callenge you to call a spade a spade and admit it.
    Eh... I oppose corrupt business and corrupt government. Big and corruption tend to go hand-in-hand. As for your point of us using it as a marketing tool, I think I disagree. If the point was to make the most money we could, why would we give away so much?

    I operate under a different bottom line. Not the financial bottom line, but making a social impact bottom line. Our success is not measured by how many dollars we bring in (although that is an incredibly important health indicator) but how much positive impact we make in society. So to say it is a marketing tool is to show only half the truth -- sure we get customers because of our politics, but the point of getting customers isn't to get richer, but to make more of an impact. It is a circular notion.

    Business should be about improving quality of life. Finances are an important indicator in the health of a business, but hardly what a business ought to be judged by. Walmart certainly is one that comes to mind as a great example of this... They make lots of cash, but in doing so they destroy vibrant local economies and keep most of their workforce on foodstamps and social services. That is no way to do business.

    The time has come to redefine the role of business in society. Perhaps not so much redefine as to go back to the roots -- why the idea of corporations was created historically, and what their initial role was. It wasn't primarily to make money for the few wealthy people, but rather to make a positive impact and improve general wellfare. We need to look back at those roots.

    With the warmest regards,

    <Signature must be setup in your profile.>
    Last edited by ldcdc; 08-16-2005 at 07:55 PM.
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  39. #39
    Originally posted by ldcdc
    While the individuals who work in the company may have political views, the company does not have to have any. In fact it shouldn't have any, because if the company declares itself right wing, it couldn't (due to its politics) hire left wing employees. Using such criteria when hiring would be against the law I believe.
    Bingo.

    Companies like thinkhost with his declarations of support of extremely volitale polical situation (aka Palastine), immediately alienates a portion of potential clients...probably a large portions.

    That being said, it's his business if he wants to limit is business. My opinion though is that as a company, I do not support ANY political causes or any cause that might be construed as political.

    What I support "personally" is my business and not a reflection of what my company supports.

    As for the *blah blah* Bush Sucks *blah blah* concentration camp *blah blah* I love terrorists *blah blah* commentary so far in this threat I say *yawn*.
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  40. #40
    Originally posted by thinkhost
    My challenge is two-fold:

    Eh... I oppose corrupt business and corrupt government. Big and corruption tend to go hand-in-hand. As for your point of us using it as a marketing tool, I think I disagree. If the point was to make the most money we could, why would we give away so much?
    Too bad that you feel that big business and corruption go hand in hand. I disagree. The US has one of the lowest rates of business corruption of any country. Business is much more corrupt in almost every country on earth EXCEPT for the US. Which was exactly what I suspected before actually looking it up. I'd also venture to say that out of the small amount of corruption there actually is in the US that as percentage small business corruption FAR outnumbers any corruption in big business.
    http://www.globalcorruptionreport.org/gcr2004.html

    You can't look at a couple of headlines of companies that get busted and assume there all doing it. 99.9% of big business fully abides by the law. And the other 1% is getting caught and prosecuted. Where's the big problem? Perhaps you should try to set up shop in a country where there actually is corruption. You only need to drive south a few hundred miles to find actual corrupt big business.



    I operate under a different bottom line. Not the financial bottom line, but making a social impact bottom line.
    It's good that you redefined the definition of bottom line. But in the business world the bottom line is profit or loss. Nothing more nothing less, and that's the way it should be.
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