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  1. #1

    Bad host and business ethics darkstarllc.com

    Had a bad experience with Darkstar llc A Teamspeak hosting company. I ordered a TS server about 3 months ago for a event we were having. I didnt order one month because i didnt know if it was going to last longer then that. I come home from work today and my account is overdrawn becuase of a paypal subscription. I talked to a "helpfull" employee of this sham of a company and They decided they wernt going to refund me, What kind of messed up business practice is that? If you have your blacklist make sure you add this one to the list.


    website: http://darkstarllc.com/

    Is there anything i can do about this before i file a paypal backcharge?



    transcript:

    Anthony: is me
    Cole: is him
    Anthony Leboeuf:
    question

    Welcome Anthony Leboeuf! Your request has been directed to the Technical Support department. Please wait for our operator to answer your call.


    Call accepted by operator Cole S.. Currently in room: Cole S., Anthony Leboeuf.

    Cole S.:
    Sorry for the long hold
    Cole S.:
    How may I help you
    Anthony Leboeuf:
    Hello, I ordered a teamspeak server 3months ago and i just got charged again. I didnt want the ts again though, i didnt realize it was a subscription payment. Can I get a refund?
    Cole S.:
    a paypal subscription payment?
    Anthony Leboeuf:
    It was unexpected to becuase it overdrew my checking acount so now i am short $25 9.99 from you and 15 from my bank
    Anthony Leboeuf:
    yeah
    Cole S.:
    heh, actually your short 25 from paypal
    Cole S.:
    Just go ahead and cancel it
    Anthony Leboeuf:
    well it decuted 9 from my account becuase i didnt have anything in paypal thats what overdrew my chewcking account
    Cole S.:
    We tell our users, when they cancel if "they're paying via paypal" the must cancel they're own subscription
    Cole S.:
    if you'd like I can look up your client id
    Cole S.:
    and check with my supervisour about a refund
    Cole S.:
    If your client ID isn't suspended then there's nothing I can do

    Cole S.:
    Anthony Leboeuf:
    Ok, tell him i need the refund no matter what. [email protected] is my paypal
    Anthony Leboeuf:
    or [email protected]
    Anthony Leboeuf:
    its the same paypal account
    Cole S.:
    It's for him to decide
    Anthony Leboeuf:
    Not really, Because i dont want the services.
    Cole S.:
    it's your responsibility to cancel your subscription
    Anthony Leboeuf:
    I never ordered another 3 months this was just for a event. I didnt ask for reaccuring payment
    Cole S.:
    read paypals terms of service and ours
    Anthony Leboeuf:
    Well please go ask your supervisor
    Cole S.:
    Let me look up your client ID first
    Anthony Leboeuf:
    ok
    Cole S.:
    According to our records your account is still active and services are being provided.
    Anthony Leboeuf:
    Obviously, you guys took 25 bucks from me today.
    Cole S.:
    no paypal, as you agreed with them and us took 25 bucks from you
    Cole S.:
    When did you request to cancel?
    Anthony Leboeuf:
    Dude, your not gunna rip me off. Who is your supervisor
    Cole S.:
    Please calm down, noone is ripping anyone off
    Cole S.:
    When did you request to cancel?
    Cole S.:
    I'll get you my supervisour
    Anthony Leboeuf:
    Yeah im being ripped off right now, you saying your not refunding me for services i dont want. I dont want your teamspeak server becuase it was only for a event. I never wanted a subscription to your service. You guys took $10 without even letting me know beforehand. Not a invoice or a bill or anything you just ripped 10 bucks out of my account WHICH i didnt even have! then you my bank charges me 15 more for being over balance
    Cole S.:
    We don't issue refunds for clients who haven't canceled. Even if you did cancel you must cancel your paypal subscription as well
    Anthony Leboeuf:
    so cancel me already
    Cole S.:
    It says that in our terms of service and theres
    Cole S.:
    I will do that.
    Cole S.:
    Now do you know where to cancel your paypal subscription billing agreement?
    Anthony Leboeuf:
    Yeah i just figured it out
    Cole S.:
    Great Would you still care to talk to him
    Cole S.:
    If you could provide me with a date you informed us of the request and a response from our billing department
    Anthony Leboeuf:
    I just want a refund, i dont care man honestly. If you hit the refund button ill be on my merry way
    Cole S.:
    That would be more helpful
    Cole S.:
    I won't do that, when you signed up with us, you agreed that you would inform us of your desire to cancel, and that you would take care of it with paypal
    Anthony Leboeuf:
    I didnt agree to that
    Cole S.:
    One moment sir.
    Anthony Leboeuf:
    So your going to rip me off?
    Cole S.:
    I'll get you my supervisour if your willing to wait
    Anthony Leboeuf:
    sure
    Cole S.:
    thank you
    Cole S.:
    He is not currently you may telephone him, and leave a message for him at 1-888-364-8799 ext. 801
    Anthony Leboeuf:
    Well im going to backcharge paypal if i cant talk to someone and resolve this right now
    Cole S.:
    You may feel free to do that
    Cole S.:
    But you haven't pointed out to me yet
    Cole S.:
    when you informed us of your cancelation request
    Anthony Leboeuf:
    Did you even read anything i wrote?
    Cole S.:
    Yes I've read everything
    Anthony Leboeuf:
    Com'n dude stop hopskotching around me lol
    Cole S.:
    You'r going to backcharge paypal
    Cole S.:
    so what?
    Cole S.:
    Read they're terms of service
    Cole S.:
    We don't provide refunds it's your responsibility to terminate the billing agreement
    Anthony Leboeuf:
    Is this a usa based company?
    Cole S.:
    Yes it is
    Anthony Leboeuf:
    hmm
    Cole S.:
    and we have a TOS
    Cole S.:
    written by our lawyers
    Cole S.:
    that is easy to understand if you took the time to read it sir?
    Cole S.:
    But it's not our issue
    Cole S.:
    take it up with paypal
    Anthony Leboeuf:
    Ok, well i guess I will have to file a complaint and leave feedback on webhostingtalk. Most web hosting company's will refund a payment if this type of confusion has happened. The subscription is for today and I dont want the Teamspeak
    Anthony Leboeuf:
    Most legit companys i should say
    Cole S.:
    Well your going to do what your going to do, and no they won't
    Cole S.:
    not without notice that you want to cancel
    Last edited by covguild; 08-02-2005 at 04:29 PM.

  2. #2
    Sorry to see that they didn't offer you a proper refund.

    However, they do have some valid points on how you should of cancelled the subscription on your own.

    Try asking to speak to his "supervisor" or go straight to the top.

    If they still do not comply, I would suggest a paypal complaint - but don't count on your money back.

    If anything, it's a 25 dollar lesson on cancelling your subscriptions.

    Best of luck to you though.

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Hey there

    Sorry, but i think they might be right. If you do not put in a request to cancel your services how should they have known? Also when you went to the payment page on paypal for the plan you must have seen that it was a subscription plan.

    Anyway i think they should be at least professional and give you half of the money back.

    Sorry to hear of your bad expierence.

  4. #4
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    I have to say, they seem to be right.

    I agree with intek's last statement on being at least professional. Next time you sign up with a place I suggest fully reading the TOS and make sure you know Paypal's also.

    Best of luck to you.
    GeeksGather - Undergoing redevelopment. Stand by.

  5. #5
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    I know this is old but are you guys kidding? We all make accidents... refund the guy's money and move on.

  6. #6
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    You're bumping a major competitor's flame thread after it's been dead for two weeks? are you kidding???

    Dark Star delivered exactly what their policies state here; expecting more would be a favor you're asking of them that they're not obligated to do. The fact that you didn't understand that subscribing for a TeamSpeak service would involve multiple payments is not at all their fault; and they seem to have done a more than adequate job explaining this on their site.

    Attacking the integrity of a company for not breaking from their policies for you is just plain childish.
    Corey Northcutt | Northcutt
    Competitive inbound marketing with a hosting industry competency.
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  7. #7
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    Bumping up a thread about a complaint of a competitors service after two weeks seems a bit strange..

    However if you where advised by the host to cancel the paypal subscription and you didnt do this, you cannot blame the host.
    System Administrator

  8. #8
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    I hate to say this, but when most hosting companies offer paypal as a choice of payment you are creating a subscription per whatever time period you are paying for. There is even a screen when you are going through the payment process with PayPal informing you that a subscription will be created. Dark Star handled it professionally. Sorry.

  9. #9
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    Wow, are we all that 'scared' of our competitors so much that we're not even willing to discuss them? LOL, c'mon guys... it's WHT. Not the end of the world.

    Anyways, let's loosen up a bit and look at this from the perspective of a client. He signed up for for a 3 month term and simply didn't read all the info... It's plain and simple... I agree. BUT, I fail to see how you're all so god damn greedy that you can't refund his money. Anyways, keep up the good work

  10. #10
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    As well, I WILL NOTE. I'm not judging the integrity of DarkStar in the least. I'm simply commenting on a refund situation that I happen to agree with the client on.

    I've been openly noted as sending clients to DarkStar that we cannot satisfy... so don't give me that...

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
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    Seems to me this is your own fault, sadly but true.. The rest depends on the good will of the company, if they refuse make sure you cancel it right this time and you've learned a wise lesson.
    We deliver high quality products @ https://www.synx.nl

  12. #12
    They are not responsible for the users mistakes. No refund derserved, end of story.
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  13. #13
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    I would have to agree with gideon_82 on this one too.

    DarkStar is in the right, they have policies which they expect their clients to follow, and if they are not willing to provide you with a refund then that’s their decision.

    At the end of the day, you should have read the small print a little closer and noticed the subscription was for 3 months and not a one month payment.

    You've just managed to learn the hard way, read the small print as not all companies are willing to provide refunds.
    Tahir Ahmed
    NetspaceOnline.net - Reliable Personal Web Site Hosting & Business Web Hosting Solutions!
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  14. #14
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    This is a difficult one, but the bottom line is, you gotta keep good PR. A measly $25 now turned into a customer going on a negative word-of-mouth campaign. (one of the most important types of marketing) Of course not all refund attempts should be refunded, but this seems to be an honest mistake. This company treated the client unprofessionally, and probably wouldn't have to go much farther to reach the top. I've gotten chargebacks hit to me from PayPal for illegit reasons, so you may have a chance. I have to repeat, was it really worth the $25 to get so much negative feedback? Probably won't see this host very long.
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  15. #15
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    I agree that this isn't best for marketting. But there's more than a small difference between good PR and bad business ethics. I know at least I wouldn't boycott a company for bad marketting tactics.

    Mekhu, if we're going to talk bad business ethics; I would say attempting to pull up dirt on your competitor by trying to nuture a ridiculous flaming would more than qualify.
    Corey Northcutt | Northcutt
    Competitive inbound marketing with a hosting industry competency.
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  16. #16
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    LMAO qwidjib0,

    My business ownership SHOULD HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with my opinion on this situation.

    As I stated in my above post, I send clients to DarkStar on a regular basis, so please drop the whole "bad business ethics" crap.

    I DO AGREE that DarkStar WAS NOT onbligated to give a refund in this situation. However, what's wrong with understanding a client's situation and refunding their money when you've lost ABSOLUTELY NOTHING?

    If the client in this situation had been a couple of weeks into his term and had used up bandwidth, etc then sure... don't refund.

    Anyways, I'll leave this be as I can see I'm dealing with a brick wall. Remind me not to make any mistakes when dealing with you qwidjib0
    Last edited by Mekhu; 08-15-2005 at 02:58 PM.

  17. #17
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    I don't think the host was obligated to give a refund here. Although it would have been nice and good publicity after this thread here
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  18. #18
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    I would have to agree with generouswebhostin.

    It was a very small amount to refund, and it would have helped retain good publicity and customer service.

    But to be honest with you, I wouldn’t consider hosting with any provider who seems to be so uptight with providing such a small refund, but that’s just me

    Hopefully that’s a lesson learnt and you can now move on..
    Tahir Ahmed
    NetspaceOnline.net - Reliable Personal Web Site Hosting & Business Web Hosting Solutions!
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  19. #19
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    A TOS is a TOS. While it's good when hosts can see beyond what is lawful and do what they feel to be the right thing, when a host is sticking to the TOS signed by the customer, we cannot say the host did something out of line. A contract is a contract.

    Not only that, but the customer was asked to follow the cancelation procedures. Refusal to do that can only lead to trouble.

    Oh, and Paypal doesn't do chargebacks for services if I remember it right.

  20. #20
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    I also need to agree with what has been said multiple times already.

    No cancellation request by proper procedure, no refund. It is that simple, hosting providers have policies for a reason. The OP's choice to not follow said policies is what led to his grief. DarkStarlic is not at all at fault for this one. Yes it would be good will for them to refund, however not practical if the account was never cancelled.

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  21. #21
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    Hello all,
    I know i should prolly just keep my mouth shut about this, but after reading this entire thread, i felt the "need" to add my two cents worth.....
    actually from what i read, the OP was being very demanding, even though the support person stated more than once that he would allow the OP to talk to his "supervisor", then when the support person was unable to get the supervisor imediately the OP seems to have taken it the wrong way. I personally understand the OP's point, and also understand DarkStar's policy, i feel however that if the OP had approached the situation differently, the outcome might have been different. I also agree that darkstar is/was under no obligation at all to give the client a refund.
    Cole did his job in a calm, proffesional, polite manor and even attempted to contact his boss without one bit of sarcasm, rudeness, or beligerance (spl?) towards the client.

    additionally i think some of the "shots" taken at darkstar in some of the replies are absolutely petty and small comments made by ppl who do not appear (to me ) to have been replying on the topic as much as they were retaliating at Darkstar for whatever reason. another thing to consider is Darkstar's size? is there anyone here who honestly thinks that the $25.00 in question would make or break Darkstar? i think, no i HOPE not, because from what i've seen of Darkstar they don't need money bad enough to intentionally screw a customer over for it.
    Then there was the mention of negative feedback over the incident... what's the customer gonna do? go tell folks he screw'd up, and it's Darkstar's fault? LOL
    Several of the replies hit the nail on the head, and several didn't.
    did the customer screw up? Yes
    Was he entitled to a refund? No
    if he had approached the issue differently would he have maybe gotten one?
    in my opinion yes, but hey it's all water under the bridge now... so the client learned to "pay attention" and Darkstar followed the guidelines...
    did they loose out on some goodwill because of it?..
    i guess that depends on which eye you read the original story out of.
    as to the matter of the OP coming here with his little rant? well just read his first post and you'll know why he did it, he knows he was in the wrong, and when he couldn't FORCE darkstar to bend to his will, he decided to lash out here...it was his only means of making himself feel better.. yeah he sure showed those "bad" people at Darkstar huh?

    Now every one of you who runs a shell or hosting company has had to deal with a customer like this in the past, some more than once. i'm even more surprised that i saw sigs for related companies on the "shot taking" side of the issue...

    so before anyone ask:
    Yes i have dealt with darkstar, and NO i have NEVER had a problem with a single person i've dealt with there no matter what the situation has been, they've always bent over backwards (figuratively speaking of course) to help me resolve any issue i've brough to their attention.

    Thanks for your time.
    Bill McGee
    BCS Computers

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