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  1. #1
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    Unhappy Layered Tech Screwing Me

    Let me tell you the story anyhow about 5 months ago or so i had a dedicated server with them this was my first time renting a server, i had a fairly knowledgeable idea of how to run it to a extent had a friend help me out also. Anyhow during my time with them i went on vacation for a week where i was without internet the whole time. When i had gotten back someone had pinged or dos'd one of the sites on my server sky rocketing the bandwith or w/e. When i had gotten back layeredtech invoiced me $900 something and i was just WTF? How can they do this to me i can see overcharging when going over your bandwith just like minutes but in another sense this isnt a cell phone this is a server which anyone can screw your bill up. Yet what makes me mad is they let this happen and let my account ring up the bill without cutting my server off. When i signed up with layeredtech i never knew something like this would happen.

    About a week in a half later i got a call from layeredtech stating this issue. I told them there was no way i could pay or would pay it that this was ridiculous he said ok and hanged up thought this issue was over couple days ago i got a letter from a bill collection agency wanting the money. I'm only 17 there is no way in hell i can pay that bill or will pay that bill that is robbery doing this to someone who's to say companies dont do it to there own servers hell they could make tons of money there has to be something to stop **** like this from happening.

    Anyhow any input on what i should do would be appreciated.
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  2. #2
    I highly doubt that LT is trying to screw you.
    Just imho.
    Last i've checked LT was unmanaged.Seems that you are responsable for everything happens to your server,including attacks
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  3. #3
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    First of all if you cant afford the bills then you shouldnt get a server. It is always a concern for bandwidth over charges you should be activly monitoring this.

    I have heard that there bandwidth graphs arent working at the moment, if you make this clear to them and please note, LT are a brilliant company, they have made tiny mistakes tahts it. Nothing major and are a company i will continue to use regardless of comments posted here.
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  4. #4
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    Regarding bandwidth graphs - we installed HotSanic on all our LT servers so that there is no question how much transfer is going in & out. No surprises.

    We did this because ignorance is not bliss. Bandwidth is expensive. If we are getting DOS'ed or if one of our professional sports client's sites goes crazy because the team did well, well it is our responsibility to be monitoring closely and know what is going on. That is as much a part of server administration, as keeping PHP up to date, or monitoring that Apache's up.

    Whether you wanted the traffic or not, and whether it was DOS traffic or viewer traffic, doesn't matter. Transfer is transfer, even incoming DOS type, and it costs the data center the same amount either way. LT's rates are perfectly reasonable for the quality and volume that you are getting, especially considering that the server already comes with 1200 GB. It's always a race against the clock and 1200 GB builds you a bit of a cushion to choose your plan.

    As for going out of town -- that's nice, but it was your responsibility to set up someone to watch and administer your server while you were gone. That falls 100% on your shoulders. When I was unexpectedly in various hospitals for 3 weeks with my Mom this winter, the first calls I made were to the appropriate people to make sure the servers were covered properly in my absence. So they knew not to call me, to just roll with whatever was going on without looking for my input. The buck stops with the party of record.

    About a week in a half later i got a call from layeredtech stating this issue. I told them there was no way i could pay or would pay it that this was ridiculous he said ok and hanged up thought this issue was over couple days ago i got a letter from a bill collection agency wanting the money. I'm only 17 there is no way in hell i can pay that bill or will pay that bill that is robbery
    LOL... well son, that's how it works in the real world. Welcome to business. When you make a commitment to a company, you are liable to them. When you say to a creditor "there was no way i could pay or would pay it," no, they are not just going to go away. It is indeed being sent to collections.

    If you don't resolve this with Layered Tech, the next step after collections is that it goes to LT's lawyers. They will also try to collect payment for this bill. If you still refuse to pay, then it will go to court where they can pursue a judgment against you for the amount. Their lawyers can also seek payment assistance from the court, which can be in the form of garnishing your wages from whatever jobs you are working. BTW, this process will drag out past your 18th birthday, so you will be an adult and it can be pursued in the courts if allowed to go to that point.

    Your credit is nothing to mess around with. A long-running collections issue or judgment will absolutely destroy your credit and there is no reason to start your life with a bad credit rating; it will follow you around for years, and bad credit can make it hard to buy a car or a house. OK, so you're not buying a house at 17, but what happens when you meet Miss Right at 20 and are married by 21? You want to buy a house? Well you don't want that bandwidth bill when you were younger to make you pay $300 more per month on your mortgage because you can't get a good interest rate on the $250,000 you're borrowing.

    Think big picture here, mate. It was an expensive learning experience, but the fees owed, if legitimate, are 100% your responsibility. I would request of LT that they provide proof of transfer though; they have to have it in order to know what to bill you. Any creditor has to be able to document the validity of a charge. That's step one. If they can provide the proof, well, get a job. You're a big boy and have real-life bills to pay.


    Best of luck,

    Bailey



    Edited for spelling.
    Last edited by bithost(NET); 07-25-2005 at 04:47 AM.
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  5. #5
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    Just my 2 cents:
    Anyhow during my time with them i went on vacation for a week where i was without internet the whole time.
    Did you left your own apartment with doors wide open and nobody to take care of it ? I assume not.
    The situation is pretty the same in servers. You cannot manage it, shut it down or find someone to take care of it.
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  6. #6
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    maybe he can get off by making a case with LT that 1. you're a minor 2. ask them to reduce it to somewhere around $400-500 where you're able to pay it.

    i hope what bithost(NET) said is not true that it can drag on until you're at legal age. you should take her point that you don't want bad credit on you.

    try to talk to LT and get them to reduce the amount of bill or work something out.
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  7. #7
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    Talk to them, or pay it over 3 months span or something, I'm sure it is negotiable.
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  8. #8
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    I think someone needs to edit the title of this thread really, LayeredTech didn't *screw you* ... they simply billed you for one of your mistakes..
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  9. #9
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    Originally posted by UltraUnixNET
    Talk to them, or pay it over 3 months span or something, I'm sure it is negotiable.
    That is exactly what I would do... but they might just say "no" becuase of what you said to them earlier.
    And next time you go on vacation, try using ServerWizards and have them manage the server for that entire month. $75 is much less than more than $1000 for bandwidth IMO.

    Anyway, good luck...
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  10. #10
    I have indeed made this mistake, but I paid the bill in the end. It was an expensive mistake, but I've learned from it.
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  11. #11
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    LOL... well son, that's how it works in the real world. Welcome to business. When you make a commitment to a company, you are liable to them. When you say to a creditor "there was no way i could pay or would pay it," no, they are not just going to go away. It is indeed being sent to collections.
    That about sums it up.
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  12. #12
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    Since Layeredtech let you use what you are allocated and above, they will definitely bill the overages.

    Some provider may watch you like a hawk when you use about 300GB of 1000GB and jumb on you when there is a slightess chance.
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  13. #13
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    Its sad how he wont have to pay, and makes me mad. I hate minors who screw us all over b/c they don't understand how stuff works. They think they can create a big hosting company with there one server.

    I wish you were 18, so you were responsible and would have to pay. Or at least at that point it would go on your credit report.

    All I can say is "Have you learned anything?"

    (I'm not trying to be mean but your getting 0% sympathy from me.
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  14. #14
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    Re: Layered Tech Screwing Me

    Originally posted by TripleA
    I'm only 17
    17 ???

    Your birthday in your profile makes you 25

    May 27th, 1980

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  15. #15
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    Re: Re: Layered Tech Screwing Me

    Originally posted by bdsnyder
    17 ???

    Your birthday in your profile makes you 25

    May 27th, 1980

    Hey, I was born on May 24th too!

    This is when a 10mpbs port is not all that bad to have. It protects you in these circumstances.

    Unless you can justify the need for a 100mpbs port, I wouldn't get one. I know it sounds good, but in reality, it can be very dangerous.

    Also, ask if their switches can be rate limited on a port by port basis. This means they can set the maximum throughput on your port anywhere from 1mpbs to 100mpbs.
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  16. #16
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    Tell the collections agency that you are 17 and therefore not legally responsible for the debt.

    I wish Layered Tech could go after you. It would teach you a lesson but unfortunately they can't. Actually they really should have never rented a server to you in the first place but since they did this is the risk they take.

    Rebecca
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  17. #17
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    The way I see it that $900 is the cost of doing business. If you cannot come up with a lousy $900 to cover your companies expenses you shouldn't be running a business at all..

    You won't get much sympathy here my friend. Alot of these folks have been screwed by customers like yourself that run up their bandwidth then cancel their server.. Someone has to pay for that bandwidth...


    my 2c
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  18. #18
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    Originally posted by TeraPipe.net
    Tell the collections agency that you are 17 and therefore not legally responsible for the debt.

    I wish Layered Tech could go after you. It would teach you a lesson but unfortunately they can't. Actually they really should have never rented a server to you in the first place but since they did this is the risk they take.

    Rebecca
    You assume they will take only one swipe at him. Collections agencies can be retained for years. Now that the responsible party has publicly broadcast his age on a public forum, they will know to just wait a year and they can keep hammering at him.

    You would also be amazed what many judges are doing these days with collections and business rulings. You want to play with the big dogs and act like a grown-up? Fine. You still owe the money. Or, the judge can also hold his parents as the liable party for the fees. (Plus collections fees, plus attorney's fees, plus court costs, plus interest)

    One way or another, LT can keep at it and still get their money. This isn't a small dispute over lunch money. It's $900 and it is very unlikely they're going to just let it go... especially that the poster is 17 -- very close to 18. It's vastly different from trying to collect from a 14 year old, for instance.

    You know I was thinking, I wonder whose credit card he put that server on...


    Bailey
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  19. #19
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    Originally posted by bithost(NET)
    You assume they will take only one swipe at him. Collections agencies can be retained for years. Now that the responsible party has publicly broadcast his age on a public forum, they will know to just wait a year and they can keep hammering at him.


    Bailey
    Minors can Disaffirm any contract, which is the legal avoidance, or setting aside of a contracutal obligation.

    Under the UCC, he can just thumb his nose.

    Learn the law folks.
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  20. #20
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    You know I was thinking, I wonder whose credit card he put that server on...
    Exactly.
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  21. #21
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    Originally posted by bithost(NET)


    You know I was thinking, I wonder whose credit card he put that server on...


    Bailey
    I'm just guessing here... Mommy/Daddy?
    (when will parents learn that their kid ant getting rich off webhosting!)
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  22. #22
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    This is exactly the reason we require a deposit in advance if we suspect the customer is a minor. We have had 13 year old kids try to order our services. You cannot enter into a legally binding contract under 18.
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  23. #23
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    Originally posted by nectar
    This is exactly the reason we require a deposit in advance if we suspect the customer is a minor. We have had 13 year old kids try to order our services. You cannot enter into a legally binding contract under 18.
    It's tought to weed out the children in this business... they can photocopy mommy and daddies credit card and drivers license just like the adults can.

    It's a shame it happens, as I feel it's one of the bigger black eye's on the business.

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  24. #24
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    I'm sure LT must have something in their TOS stating that you will be billed for any overage, so whoever's card this is, probably mummy/daddy ... it should be automatically billed anyway for the full amount due.

    Probably better from LT's point of view, leaves the minor to explain to his parents what the h*ll he did ...
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  25. #25
    Originally posted by bithost(NET)
    You assume they will take only one swipe at him. Collections agencies can be retained for years. Now that the responsible party has publicly broadcast his age on a public forum, they will know to just wait a year and they can keep hammering at him.

    You would also be amazed what many judges are doing these days with collections and business rulings. You want to play with the big dogs and act like a grown-up? Fine. You still owe the money. Or, the judge can also hold his parents as the liable party for the fees. (Plus collections fees, plus attorney's fees, plus court costs, plus interest)

    One way or another, LT can keep at it and still get their money. This isn't a small dispute over lunch money. It's $900 and it is very unlikely they're going to just let it go... especially that the poster is 17 -- very close to 18. It's vastly different from trying to collect from a 14 year old, for instance.

    You know I was thinking, I wonder whose credit card he put that server on...


    Bailey
    And he can potentially argue that since it was a criminal activity that had caused LT to incur costs of $900, LT should be trying to regain that money from the perpitratiors of the DDoS.

    RazorBlue - Dan, I actually looked though TOS/AUP and couldnt see something like that offhand, some providers will DC server if it goes over limit, and ask customer if they want it put back.
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  26. #26
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    Originally posted by sirius
    It's tought to weed out the children in this business... they can photocopy mommy and daddies credit card and drivers license just like the adults can.

    It's a shame it happens, as I feel it's one of the bigger black eye's on the business.

    Sirius
    There is a section in the UCC code that says that if a minor represents him self, he is screwed. So, if he did use another person's licence, credit card, name to consumate the contract.......he is SOL.

    I don't know, can you even get a Visa at 17?
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  27. #27
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    Originally posted by PSFServers
    I don't know, can you even get a Visa at 17?
    My youngest daughter, 17, has a checking acount with BankofAmerica and she
    was able to get a VISA Check Card with her account, with my approval.

    Her account is tied to MY account because she is a minor. She
    can use the VISA card as a debit and charge card as long as
    a purchase does not go over her available balance in HER checking account.
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  28. #28
    Some mod should really change the title.
    And imho,is not about his age,is more about his stupidity(sry for beeing rude).
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  29. #29
    I don't think title censorship is necessarily needed, but I do side with almost everyone. We've been hit by minors as well and it really is frustrating when you realize you're dealing with someone who cannot be legally bound to any contract.

    Has anyone ever thought about going after the parents as the minor's legal guardian(s)? If the son/daughter uses their card without their permission THEY should be liable to pay. That's how it is if they break the law. This isn't a whole lot different.

    I sure wouldn't want to be the kid when the parent saw a big charge on their bill however. Mostly because regardless of the opinion made earlier, $900 IS a lot of money. At least it is to the majority of us.
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  30. #30
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    Originally posted by RazorBlue - Dan


    Probably better from LT's point of view, leaves the minor to explain to his parents what the h*ll he did ...

    He will lie to his parents, and they will go ape-**** and call LT screaming that they are ripping off their son, etc.

    I hope LT just charges the heck out of the CC, and maybee even a late payment fee... (15% ) ...if only.
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  31. #31
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    Originally posted by BSD2
    And he can potentially argue that since it was a criminal activity that had caused LT to incur costs of $900, LT should be trying to regain that money from the perpitratiors of the DDoS.

    RazorBlue - Dan, I actually looked though TOS/AUP and couldnt see something like that offhand, some providers will DC server if it goes over limit, and ask customer if they want it put back.
    Hate to chime in (since this thread already seems to have a pretty good flow of whats right/wrong, at least in my opinion), but given the fact that the OP is somewhat clueless on the matter, whats to even say its a DDoS? For all we know, he left a slew of extreme video's up on his site, and unexpectedly the links got popular and chewed away his bandwidth (as this may have been considered by the OP as undesirable bandwidth usage, who knows?)
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  32. #32
    Well, that is possible, I guess, I general seem to consider people know what they are ona bout (which may/might not be the case here).
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  33. #33
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    Maybe the title of this thread should be reversed to "I'm screwing Layered Tech."
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  34. #34
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    Anyone else think this thread has run it's course?

    Sirius
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