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Thread: Should this service be expected?
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07-24-2005, 09:25 PM #1Newbie
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Should this service be expected?
Hi. I've had HostGator as a host for a year now. At first they were reliable with only minor hiccups that lasted about 1 minute or two. Over the past few months I have had to repeatedly submit requests or call tech support to report a crash due to their /var disk filling to 100%.
On the 17th with yet another disk full and yet another assurance this would not happen again, I wrote and asked them to inform management to please put in place some sort of monitoring/notification tool to prevent this from happening again or I would seek another host as "I" should not be the one monitoring their server. The response was "We appologize for the inconveniece faced by you, We will make sure that this
should not happen further more. We'll keep watching logs as wel as server status to give you 99.9 % of server uptime and quality service. Please feel free to contact us back if you have any problems."
Yet by the 22nd it was almost full again and upon a call to Brent, his response was "the sooner you get off the phone, the sooner we can fix it" and did not appear to care that he would lose me as a customer. (Granted, I don't do a lot of traffic, but the business is still growing and I expect more usage/traffic.)
Now, upon some searches for a new host, I tried Micfo's 30 day free trial last night. My simple site wasn't even up 12 hours and their server crashed. A call to them was finally answered with a "We're sorry, the mailbox is full. Try calling again later" and a ticket submitted to them was answered as "working on it now and will have it resolved in 5 minutes". Yes, in 5 minutes, things were working again, but the cpanel still indicated failures. A call to them 1/2 hour later was answered and I was told "cpanel is sometimes slow to respond real-time status". Six hours later, the cpanel still indicates apache, mysql & eximstats as "failed" and server load flashing red at 24.25 cpu's".
So, are both these scenarios normal to expect from a host server? Should I have to be watching the server to report their drive is maxing out. Is the cpanel really that slow at indicating repairs?
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07-24-2005, 09:26 PM #2Web Hosting Master
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It's not your responsibility to watch it for them. If I were you, I'd be looking for a new host.
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07-24-2005, 09:27 PM #3Web Hosting Master
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upacreek
Neither is normal, neither should be expected.
You should not have to do their job for them.
cPanel however CAN display things incorrectly in the service status list.
For example if you were safely browsing your site and cpanel still said apache was failed: it was incorrect.
If you still couldn't browse your site: well then it's Micfos fault and a sad display on their part.
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07-24-2005, 09:28 PM #4Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by David
upacreek,
Neither is normal, neither should be expected.
You should not have to do their job for them.
cPanel however CAN display things incorrectly in the service status list.
For example if you were safely browsing your site and cpanel still said apache was failed: it was incorrect.
If you still couldn't browse your site: well then it's Micfos fault.
EDIT: Upps, well if he was looking at his site and not just cpanel, that's a different story
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07-24-2005, 09:29 PM #5Web Hosting Master
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XN-Tyler
Cpanel itself is actually a different daemon! Imagine that!
Reread my message, you obviously didn't get it.
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07-24-2005, 09:31 PM #6Web Hosting Master
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Easy buddy, I edited my message as soon as I re-read it.
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07-24-2005, 09:31 PM #7Web Hosting Master
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Disk Full? Sure sign that they're overselling their resources - I'd be looking for a new home right about now. Find a host that can grow with your needs.
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07-24-2005, 09:35 PM #8Web Hosting Master
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No doubt, HostPC. If they are overselling disk space, they are most likely overselling bandwidth and machine resources.
It's a very common thing for hosting companys to do, they care more about profit then the good of the end users.
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07-24-2005, 09:47 PM #9Web Hosting Master
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Re: Should this service be expected?
Originally posted by upacreek
...
So, are both these scenarios normal to expect from a host server? Should I have to be watching the server to report their drive is maxing out. Is the cpanel really that slow at indicating repairs?
If you didn't want to hassle with finding a new host, where you might not be any better off, then maybe you should ask them to move your site to a server that is not as full as your current one.
Good luck upacreek.A Collection of Web Hosts
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07-24-2005, 10:04 PM #10Disabled
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I'm very sorry for you experance, In todays world of webhost unfortunately host pack as much as possible in a server, this is what happened to you with Hostgater, they packed too many sites in a server and then when sites started to grow over the course of time more resources were needed per site, causing things to fill up and ultamatly crash.
I would try to go with a semi big host, nothing too big as you may get lost in the mess and Techs don't usually care about one sole customer. Something like Hostdime, where they are big, but still kinda small where they have trained dedicated staff that care is where you need to look for hosting.
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07-24-2005, 10:33 PM #11Web Hosting Master
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/var full can happen, should not happen, but it can even to a good host.
Seems lots of cpanel host running centOS got caught out when RH and CentOS installed the audit damon and it started filling /var/audit.d with logs. does not mean the server is over loaded unless the other directorys are filling up also. But once caught out the host should fix the problem and insure it does not happen again.
As for as cpanel showing failures it sounds like chkservd did not get restarted so the services could have been running but cpanel does not show them as such. It can take up to 10 minutes or so after a reboot for cpanel stats to catch up to what is really going on but no longer. Not 6 hours for sure and a load of 24 would indicate a problem or the server is over loaded.
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07-24-2005, 10:40 PM #12Newbie
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Thanks for all the responses. I didn't mind the minor burps Hostgator had as I don't expect things to be 100% perfect. As long as it was back up in 5-10 minutes, that was acceptable.
They claim to not oversell. The disk that was filling up is their /var disk and from my previous IT life, that is where all the log files go. One phone call last month to Hostgator to report it was full, gave me a response from a girl telling me "it's normal for a disk to be 100% full"
What bothers me is I've had to repeatedly report this problem and they are obviously not proactive and monitoring disk quotas to alert them when they are reaching critical capacity. That and the fact when I tried to give Hostgator & Brent an opportunity to hear my concerns about them, I was given the finger.
My needs are somewhat simple for now, with some need to grow. I'm looking for under $15/mo and around 1gb data & 30 GB bandwidth on a non-windows server. I made a deal with a friend for her to create/maintain my site and she stores personal sport videos on it in exchange. I'd like to set her up with an (add-on?) domain, so her stuff is no longer pointed to a subdirectory off my site as she's receiving a lot of hits now. I'd like to add a shopping cart soon too - probably mysql as that is what my friend is familiar with. I'd prefer to have phone support available in addition to a primary email ticket system.
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07-24-2005, 10:45 PM #13Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by upacreek
a response from a girl telling me "it's normal for a disk to be 100% full"
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07-24-2005, 11:38 PM #14learning is in the doing
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Originally posted by upacreek
Thanks for all the responses. I didn't mind the minor burps Hostgator had as I don't expect things to be 100% perfect. As long as it was back up in 5-10 minutes, that was acceptable.
They claim to not oversell. The disk that was filling up is their /var disk and from my previous IT life, that is where all the log files go. One phone call last month to Hostgator to report it was full, gave me a response from a girl telling me "it's normal for a disk to be 100% full"
The 'var' directory is also where mySQL databases are stored and that is probably what is causing the problem. Any decent ServerAdmin would make changes to use another partition (using what's called a 'symbolic link') to alleviate the problem once and for all. Without doing that and/or moving some accounts to another Server, the problem will persist.
Looks like a smart move on your part, upacreek, to start checking out other potential Hosters. Based on your posted Web site requirements and monthly amount you can pay, you should have no problem finding a much better Host.• PotentProducts.com - for all your Hosting needs
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07-25-2005, 01:34 PM #15Temporarily Out of Service
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Var should never hit 100% and we do monitor it / clear it when it begins to fill. When we spoke on the phone I was very concerned and repeated a dozen times I would get it taken care of.
Var was not full at this time and as I said I would make sure it does not reach 100%
We had a monitoring issue for a little over a month with hybodus and disk monitoring. This resulted in us not having the ability to monitor var closely like we normally do. This has been recently resolved so you should not have this issue again. I understand your frustration however since I said I would take of the problem it has not happened again.
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07-26-2005, 12:28 AM #16Newbie
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You don't know me, but I'm a nice person. I'm a nice customer who pays the bills promptly and doesn't abuse the servers. I recommend nice people to nice products & services whole-heartedly.
I'm also a customer who doesn't come back. I take whatever you hand out, because I know I'm not coming back. I could tell you off and feel better, but in the long run, it's better to just leave.
Understand this Hostgator. A nice customer like me, multiplied by others like me, can bring a business to its knees. There are plenty of us. When we get pushed far enough, we go to one of your competitors.
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07-26-2005, 01:19 AM #17Web Hosting Master
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And 3,500 MB for $7 may not be overselling if you have lots of big hard drives, but how many 3.500 MB sites are there that will only use ~5 GB of traffic? Still sounds like they pack on the sites....none of my business...
But I cannot even imagine letting a server run at a load of 24+ That's the part that gets me, you can have a raid array of big drives and plenty of bandwidth so you can deliver on the space & bandwidth so no accusations of overselling but a load of 24...sounds like there would be smoke pouring out from somewhere...
I would be concerned hosting on any server pulling loads anywhere near that high unless it was for a one-time rebuild of a raid array or something that put an extreme load on a server for a few minutes.
Not picking on this company, and maybe jumping topic but do other people let their servers pull loads like that as "normal"? (not even that high, just in the double digits)
If you do maybe I'm way off base here and totally missed what acceptable server loads usually are considered. I am genuinely curious, not trashing or flaming HostGator.
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07-26-2005, 01:23 AM #18Web Hosting Master
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24?? I missed that part. Hell, I get nervous if we go over ONE (1)
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07-26-2005, 01:56 AM #19Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by hostpc.com
24?? I missed that part. Hell, I get nervous if we go over ONE (1)
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07-26-2005, 01:57 AM #20Retired Moderator
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If you do maybe I'm way off base here and totally missed what acceptable server loads usually are considered. I am genuinely curious, not trashing or flaming HostGator.
Also, I doubt that the OP even meant to imply that Micfo's server(s) usually have a server load of 24, or that Micfo's policy is that 24 is a normal server load. He just stated that the server had it at that particular time and Micfo (apparently) didn't act fast enough.
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07-26-2005, 03:29 AM #21Newbie
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Kevin, your question seems sincere, so I'll answer you. I did give Hostgator several chances. I did not have an issue with the minor unexpected crashes.
What I do not accept is the lack of respect and rude treatment from Brent on the phone and on this forum. "When we spoke on the phone I was very concerned and repeated a dozen times I would get it taken care of." ONE DOZEN times???? concern???
His behavior sealed the deal with my new host provider.
His perception of our phone call is quite different then mine. I cannot even call our short phone call a conversation. That would have involved him actually listening to me and allow me to express my concerns about the server repeatedly crashing. He did not even answer me when I asked "Do you even care if I'm a customer?" Now tell, me, if a customer asked you that, doesn't that raise some flags about how they perceive you or your service?
As for the Micfo question. The server load later dropped from 24 down to around 1. The cpanel still indicated failures over 9 hours later. My only experience with server load has been Hostgator's which was always between 1 and 4.5 when I checked the status on the disk capacity (which for the last few months has been between 89% - 100%). I have no idea what is a normal server load.
Once again, I want to thank you all for the positive suggestions.
And on a lighter note, Gentlemen, don't assume everyone who posts is a man. I grew up with boys, can talk like a boy, have a name like a boy, but I'm no boy - nor look like one.
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07-26-2005, 03:33 AM #22WebHostingTalk Lover
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I'm sure if you talked with Brent he would get the issue resolved in matter of minutes but in this situation it's hard to tell who is right & wrong.
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07-26-2005, 09:37 AM #23Web Hosting Master
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My sincere apologies...My Bad....for misreading the post and not realizing it was the second company with the 24+ server load...
Still, I would expect whatever company to have an explanation for a load like that or somebody in the datacenter with a box in hand ready to replace it. I was sincere in the question since I haven't seen that high level of loads even during intensive "maintenance" operations.
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07-26-2005, 10:54 AM #24Web Hosting Master
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well good to see that where getting some good communication either way here in this thread
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07-26-2005, 11:36 AM #25Temporarily Out of Service
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You called in to make sure it wouldn't happen again I told you I was on it, and it wouldn't happen again close to a dozen times if not more. It hasn't happened again yet here is this thread, and your unhappy how it was handled from our phone call?
I could understand if it happened again after we spoke, but it didn't. I also told you on the phone I was very sorry and very concerned.
Best of luck with your new host. I wish you would have given us a chance since we spoke.