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  1. #26
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    EVILISCIOUS,

    Then who decides what is terrorism?

  2. #27
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    Originally posted by EVILISCIOUS
    Technically, varg is correct. But we are talking about TERRORIST websites here, not websites of hostile nation's governments. Dont see any issue of violating sovereignty here
    Well, how many IP's can they possibly attack from. They can all be blocked

    Hey, I know, let's give China and other such nations some more ideas... China will say "if they can do it, we can to. Since Freedom is against our laws, we'll start attacking sites in the U.S.".

  3. #28
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    David,

    terrorism n.

    The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

    Source

  4. #29
    Originally posted by Webdude
    Well, how many IP's can they possibly attack from. They can all be blocked

    Hey, I know, let's give China and other such nations some more ideas... China will say "if they can do it, we can to. Since Freedom is against our laws, we'll start attacking sites in the U.S.".
    Bingo and he hits the mark.....

  5. #30
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    Why don't some of you guys give us all the answers then?
    How can you complain about terrorism when you are not willing to accept that certain concessions have to be made in order to prevent it?

    You don't want the police to do their job.
    You don't want the government to step one your precious rights.
    I'm sure you all feel that it's bad to keep prisoners and maybe even rough them up once in a while.

    Why don't you give us the answer.

  6. #31
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    Freedom is against chinese laws? I doubt that

    But i digress,
    Well i think public opinion & obvious factors are the deciding factor here. We do not have a higher/more advanced species than us on planet earth who can sort out these issues for us, so we need to decide it ourselves

  7. #32
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    Originally posted by EVILISCIOUS
    Freedom is against chinese laws? I doubt that
    I was joking on that, but it gets the idea across. How many things can a person do that is illegal in China or other countries? What if China started attacking sites that promote those things since those things are against "their" laws?

    I wouldnt like the idea of the any government bombarding any sites regardless where they are. I dont care if they are terrorist sites or not. Rather than bombarding such sites into non-existence our security forces should be carefully monitoring them while pretending they dont know about them.

    In other words, we cant tap into their forms of communication and get needed info to stop attacks if we destroy them. I'm sure they have alternate forms of communication, why wipe out the ones we "do" know about?? If we wipe out one site we "do" know about, then they simply communicate via another site that we "dont" know about.. BOOM we get hit and didnt know it was comming because we detroyed our only means of possibly learning of the impending attack.

    The people promoting giving this power to the law, and the people in law saying they need it simply arent very bright. Besides, dont they know there are many people on the net that will be posting the IP's they dos from so others can pre-block them??

  8. #33
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    Originally posted by blue27
    I'm sure you all feel that it's bad to keep prisoners and maybe even rough them up once in a while.
    Nope, I'm all for ruffing up prisoners.

  9. #34
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    Focusing on UK/USA govt "attacking websites"

    If they want to, the dont need to worry sending DDOS attacks /reporting websites to ISPs

    They can simply remove the website from the ICANN database so that noone can resovle the domain name online. :-), wouldn't the ICANN being a USA funded organization be required to co-operate with the government at times of crisis?

    The website could reapper with a new domain or people could simply access it by the IP, but thats another story...

  10. #35
    Originally posted by blue27
    Why don't some of you guys give us all the answers then?
    How can you complain about terrorism when you are not willing to accept that certain concessions have to be made in order to prevent it?
    Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one. - Thomas Jefferson


    You don't want the police to do their job.
    You don't want the government to step one your precious rights.
    I'm sure you all feel that it's bad to keep prisoners and maybe even rough them up once in a while.

    Why don't you give us the answer.
    1. I don't want police shooting innocent people in the face five times.
    2. My rights are precious and once you lose them they are gone for good.
    3. I dobn't mind roughing up the bastards in Gitmo or the military prisons. I'm actually a pretty leinent person when it comes to tourture of terrorists for information as long as they were trying to kill our troops or the leaders of the people who are.

    My answer would be for the U.S. and UK to get out of the middle east completely and let them all kill each other....

    P.S. Just another quote:

    In a state-run society the government promises you security. But it's a false promise predicated on the idea that the opposite of security is risk. Nothing could be further from the truth. The opposite of security is insecurity, and the only way to overcome insecurity is to take risks. The gentle government that promises to hold your hand as you cross the street refuses to let go on the other side. ~Theodore Forstmann
    Last edited by RossH; 07-24-2005 at 12:00 AM.

  11. #36
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    Originally posted by RossH
    My answer would be for the U.S. and UK to get out of the middle east completely and let them all kill each other....

    Do you think that terrorism is something new?

    Do you really believe that a coalition pull out from the Middle East will solve anything?

  12. #37
    Originally posted by blue27
    Do you think that terrorism is something new?

    Do you really believe that a coalition pull out from the Middle East will solve anything?
    Lets see....

    World Trad Center (1993) - Screwing around in the middle east, Troops there
    Khobar Towers - Troops in the middle east
    Ebassy Bombings - Troops in the middle east
    USS Cole - Troops in the middle east
    9/11 - Troops in the middle east

    Am I missing any? So roughly what 12 years of terrorism in the United States out of the 200+ years, ya I'd say it is rather new here.

    Maybe if we brought our troops home and stopped screwing around in other countries we would be better off.

    If you think we are going to beat terrorism your wrong. They'll keep recruiting and killing no matter what we do. The only things that will die in this war on terror will be out rights which many will freely give up for a false sense of security.

    The only war to possibly stop Islamic Terrorist is to kill every believer in Islam.

  13. #38
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    The only war to possibly stop Islamic Terrorist is to kill every believer in Islam
    I couldn't agree more. Not just islams, but all religions. Beleif in any sort of god is dangerous to humanity. When will people realize the truth that there is no such thing as a god! on 9/11 innocent americans were killed by men claiming to be acting on god's orders. And if you say no christian is going to commit such an hideous act? who assasinated all the american presidents? why?

    Its not about islam or christianity or any other religion. Its about terrrorism. Religion & beleif in god is not only irrational, but this is what motivates terrorists. WE MUST put an end to this to ensure a safe future for human kind.

  14. #39
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    what ignorance are you referring to? Might i add that beleif in god is what has held humanity in intellectual slavery for all of existence, and that the whole concept is ridiculous

  15. #40
    Originally posted by blue27
    Well, the ignorance level of this thread has risen far too high.

    Time for me to go and find higher ground.
    Umm...I was stating that is the only way to defeat Islamic terrorism, not suggesting it should be done.

    Next of all your high and mighty crap gets old. I'm tired of you deeming other members ideas as stupid all the time just because you don't agree with them. It takes a very small minded person to always haveing to resort to calling people names instead of discussing why you believe they are wrong.

    Enjoy.

  16. #41
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    This is a forum, I intend to interact here. Exchange views, debate & discuss

  17. #42
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    Originally posted by RossH
    Umm...I was stating that is the only way to defeat Islamic terrorism, not suggesting it should be done.

    Next of all your high and mighty crap gets old. I'm tired of you deeming other members ideas as stupid all the time just because you don't agree with them. It takes a very small minded person to always haveing to resort to calling people names instead of discussing why you believe they are wrong.

    Enjoy.

    Ok, you made the statement. Back it up.
    How will killing everyone who believes in Islam end terrorism?


    If you are so tired of my "high and mighty crap" why have you not put me on your ignore list?
    It's easy to do. Contact the mods, they will even help you.

  18. #43
    Damn we took a wrong turn and ended up in retard usa lol... got that from my boss HAHA!

  19. #44
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    If anything the US and UK should be encouraging terrorists to host their sites in US or UK datacenters. All the anti-terrorist agencies have to do then is identify the sites, go to the datacenters and proceed to log every packet that goes in or out of the server in question. Trying to stop the sites is like playing "whack a mole", you kill a site and it pops up elsewhere along with 2 more sites.

    Reality: Terrorist websites aren't going away. It's better to take advantage of that fact than try to stop them.

  20. #45
    Originally posted by blue27
    Ok, you made the statement. Back it up.
    How will killing everyone who believes in Islam end terrorism?


    If you are so tired of my "high and mighty crap" why have you not put me on your ignore list?
    It's easy to do. Contact the mods, they will even help you.
    Well Mr. Smarty if you notice in my post I said killing every believer in Islam would end Islamic Terrorism. If there are no more people practicing Islam then there can be no more Islamic terrorism can there?

    I choose not to ignore you because I like to see everyone's view point. I'm simply pointing out then instead of making snide one lined posts with "this is the dumbest" or "this is the most ignorant" you could simply drop those posts and follow the Be Polite rule.
    Last edited by RossH; 07-24-2005 at 01:35 AM.

  21. #46
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    Originally posted by EVILISCIOUS
    I couldn't agree more. Not just islams, but all religions. Beleif in any sort of god is dangerous to humanity. When will people realize the truth that there is no such thing as a god! on 9/11 innocent americans were killed by men claiming to be acting on god's orders. And if you say no christian is going to commit such an hideous act? who assasinated all the american presidents? why?

    Its not about islam or christianity or any other religion. Its about terrrorism. Religion & beleif in god is not only irrational, but this is what motivates terrorists. WE MUST put an end to this to ensure a safe future for human kind.
    Removal of freedom of religion is on the list right after the removal of rights.

    You notice how gas prices are done? It's at $1.50 then they raise it to $2.50 over a short period. Then when they drop it to $2.00 it looks really good to us. Thats how they keep raising gas prices.

    So you can only figure they will take several rights away, and give a few back till they want to take more. When "you" want to take away other people's right, and those people being a large majority, they certainly wont be at your side in numbers defending you when the rights "you" care about are taken away. For example, there are many things that go on that I dont agree with. Women fought for equal rights. There are some jobs women just shouldnt do, but if the government was to try to take those rights from them, I would stand by their side and add my voice to theirs...... and I would hope they would return the favor when the gov tries to take rights "I" care about. Religion covers a HUGE number of Americans. I would rather them at my side in an arguement with the government rather than them standing nuetral because I thought there was no God and pissed them off by stating religion should be banned.

    .. and dont worry, you will get your wish. It says in Revelation that all religions will be banned and a one world religion will be created (and enforced). As I see it, that cant happen right now, but give a few more generations and the government slowly removing rights, and our grandchildren will be nothing but sheep herded around like cattle at the government's whim.... but as of right now, the religious sects have a very powerful and effective voice.

    Back to the main story, if the UK starts bombarding US servers that have "suspect" sites on them, you will probably find thousands of hosts returning the favor, and I really dont think the UK government has enough computer power to deal with it. Their fiasco will be about as long lived as the LOVE screensaver.

  22. #47
    People really need to leave the internet alone, keep the wars on land and in person, last thing we need is a large scale internet war messing up resources for everyone!

    These people that put the idea that they should use the internet in this type of way need to be shot.. It bad enough that there are people and places out there that have to worry about being blown up on a daily basis, but now they are going to try and ruin the net...
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  23. #48
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    Yeah like really, i very much doubt terrists use the internet to plan their big attacks. They should just leave everything on the net how it is.

  24. #49
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    lads oh lads oh lads oh lads oh lads

    yet another thread thats descended into name calling and guesswork with little or no actual thought involved

    the uk will not be ddosing a geocities website, or mailbombing a hotmail account. lets face it, to get the ability to do a denial of service attack you need pretty decent resources yourself. the uk government has 'decent resources' but it still relies on carriers such as bt, level3 etc etc to move its packets. there would be no chance of them knowingly carrying denial of service packets. a cleverer denial of service based on vulnerabilities is a more realistic approach, but this still has its shortcomings

    so the next idea is hacking their sites. i personally couldnt give a monkeys if they hack al qaeda, al jafaari, al whoever or whatever. it wont effect me (nimby?) and it may do some good. easier still would be to remove the domains from the root servers, and/or follow the packets back to the provider and get it closed down that way. if the provider and/or government wont react theres more than one way to get what you want done. 'bye bye mr transatlantic telecoms cables'

    as for teh data retention laws, i know this has been discussed quite a bit by various isps. the government has indicated that it may fund some of the extra cost involved in setting this up..

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