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07-21-2005, 07:38 AM #1Aspiring Evangelist
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Virtuozzo: load average & `free` accuracy?
in my Virtuozzo VPS the load average reporting seems to be quite accurate, but i haven't found a command to accurately report the actual memory consumption of individual vps, the command `free` just prints out the memory statistics of the enrtire server
total used free shared buffers cached
Mem: 3949800 3939508 10292 0 152160 1430036
-/+ buffers/cache: 2357312 1592488
Swap: 30716272 3122480 27593792
[
any suggestion is highly appreciated
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07-21-2005, 08:42 AM #2Aspiring Evangelist
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Do I see a 30GB /swap partition?
Which provider is this?
30,716,272 MB SWAP??????
SWAP is NOT memory, !EuroVPS - Europe's Fully Managed Hosting
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07-21-2005, 12:17 PM #3Web Hosting Master
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No kidding. I see that 30gb swap partition too.
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07-21-2005, 12:19 PM #4Aspiring Evangelist
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Whoever is running that shop is NOT A PROFESSIONAL, PERIOD!!!
I'm STILL amazed at that "free" output.
Not to mention they're obviously using SATA or IDE, otherwise they'd never waste 300 € worth of storage on swap
Terrible, I'd like to know which provider this isEuroVPS - Europe's Fully Managed Hosting
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07-21-2005, 03:14 PM #5Web Hosting Master
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Whats wrong with IDE or SATA ?
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07-21-2005, 03:30 PM #6Aspiring Evangelist
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Whats wrong with IDE or SATA ?
It's insanity!EuroVPS - Europe's Fully Managed Hosting
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07-21-2005, 08:36 PM #7Managed Hosting Expert
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That all depends if you've got 10 or 100 people on the node really...
SATA does a great job for low contention machines. Sure if you're doing a lot of disk I/O it's a good idea, but thats generally only when you put masses of VPS's on an individual host.█ Dan Kitchen | Technical Director | Razorblue
█ ddi: (+44) (0)1748 900 680 | e: dkitchen@razorblue.com
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07-21-2005, 09:50 PM #8Aspiring Evangelist
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its an Adiungo VSP
am i still not able to see my actual memory usage anyway?
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07-21-2005, 10:30 PM #9Managed Hosting Expert
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Not too familiar with Vz but have you tried the VZPP?
█ Dan Kitchen | Technical Director | Razorblue
█ ddi: (+44) (0)1748 900 680 | e: dkitchen@razorblue.com
█ UK Intensive Managed Hosting, Clusters and Colocation.
█ HP Servers, Cisco/Juniper Powered BGP Network (AS15692).
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07-22-2005, 01:01 AM #10Web Hosting Master
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OK then, by your standard what is the ideal/minimum hardware for a virtuozzo node? 10krpm SCSI on RAID 10?
Originally posted by EuroVPS/Igor
ON A VIRTUOZZO NODE?????????????????????????
It's insanity!What you can do with Cpanel ------------------> |||||
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07-22-2005, 01:04 AM #11Web Hosting Master
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we run our Virtuozzo nodes on a minimum of Dual CPUs (Xeons, we have some older nodes on Dual P3T which we will migrate), 2-6 GB memory, SCSI3 10K rpms U160/U320 drives in RAID1 or RAID5 .
The most important on a VPS node is the memory. And I would always go with SCSI than with IDE. There are reasons why SCSI drives are more expensive than IDE.Fluid Hosting, LLC - Enterprise Cloud Infrastructure: Cloud Shared and Reseller, Cloud VPS, and Cloud Hybrid Server
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07-22-2005, 05:10 AM #12Web Hosting Master
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Thats what I thought too. I think hard drives are prety important but I will always give priority to CPU & RAM.
IMHO, even an IDE drive can pull a Virtuozzo without too much of a problem. Virtuozzo is unlike UML or FreeVPS , its designed to consume less resources.What you can do with Cpanel ------------------> |||||
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07-22-2005, 05:22 AM #13Aspiring Evangelist
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No, you must have SCSI in a Virtuozzo node.
It's called TCQ. Tagged Command Queuing.
No successful companies are going to use SATA or IDE in Virtuozzo nodes and be proud they're doing so.EuroVPS - Europe's Fully Managed Hosting
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07-22-2005, 07:55 AM #14Web Hosting Master
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Igor, Is it really a MUST?
There are lots of VPS providers running on SATAs.
And some SATAs are capable of command queuing(NCQ) correct me if Im wrong. Plus command queuing is not really a MUST for virtuozzo, again correct me if Im wrong.What you can do with Cpanel ------------------> |||||
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07-22-2005, 08:31 AM #15Aspiring Evangelist
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If you want to run more than 10 VPS's per server (in other words, if you want to make money and stay in business) you must have SCSI.
To understand the severity of the situation, we started with 6 SCSI drives per array. This is not enough for good performance. We now run Compaq Storageworks 4314R's and IBM EXP300's with 14 drives EACH -- PER server!
Now, performance is acceptable to us.
It really is quite simple, you must purchase 14 pcs x 73GB, or 36GB if you wish, minimum 10K (15K makes a BIG difference), couple this with a 64 bit PCI-X (33Mhz is not enough, must be 66Mhz) RAID, with at least 128MB W/B Cache w/battery backup, and you will have a good throughput with your node.
Many providers running SATA.. What can I say, it is not a good idea. Read about what happens on 3Ware 7XXX controllers, there is one forum that discusses hardware & there are dozens of people screaming that their entire RAID array was lost due to controller parity errors. We cannot afford this type of failure, and as such will only use heavy duty SCSI RAID controllers.
Like I said, we're talking about serious providers, if you want to run 5-6 VE's, you can do it on a Maxtor 10GB IDE. That is not what we are doing, performance is key here.
Another thing is RAM, our first VZ nodes had 4GB. This is nothing. Now the minimum we run is 6GB, with new machines all starting with 16GB RAM. RAM is not so expensive as to make a problem in the purchase of said VZ node. With Virtuozzo, and any Virtualization technology RAM is key. If one VZ node has 16GB RAM, and 8GB /swap, the /swap will likely never be touched. We have seen in our own nodes that our 16GB nodes run MUCH faster than the 6GB nodes.
Problem is that most servers have 6 slots:
6 x 1GB DDR-2 PC3200 3-3-3 ECC REG =
6 x 210€ = 1200~ mininum
6 x 2GB DDR-2 PC3200 3-3-3 ECC REG - Must be single rank, max 8 ranks per server
6 x 800€ = 4800~ minimum
Obviously you see the difference in costs. For one starter company to run more than 6GB is difficult, as it was for us in beginning. However as time passes and you add customers, and you are also add new servers, you must consider that adding 12GB-16GB+ RAM is an investment in your company.
I am not saying that someone that wants to run some basic VPS company with SATA is bad businessman, for god's sake; however it is not the IDEAL environment for buliding VPS platform for multiple VPS customers. Please understand I am trying to make it clear that for best economic return for you as business/company, you must use SCSI and as much RAM as possible. After all only one who truly benefits is you as business, because your customers are happy, and you will get more customers as result of this - thus netto profit increases.
If you know how much Virtuozzo cost is, you will not be thinking in your mind to run 5-6 VE's per node. You will never make a positive profit in this way.
Yes I know that you cannot "lease" such a server from some datacenter or server provider, so lease your own from Dell in this case, they have good leasing arrangements if you do not have cash to buy such server.
Big companies such as, well let me not name names, but the big companies, they are all using SCSI, and good SCSI at that. You see the difference RAID 5 vs RAID 10 SCSI makes, you think SATA is possible to use in Virtuozzo?? I think not.
Regards,
IgorEuroVPS - Europe's Fully Managed Hosting
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07-22-2005, 12:39 PM #16Aspiring Evangelist
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very informative the comments you gave
i'd be glad if someone can take time to answer me original post as well regarding accurate memory usage reporting in virtuzzo
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07-22-2005, 12:45 PM #17Aspiring Evangelist
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You can see this in VZPP, Virtuozzo Power Panel
https://YOUR.IP.GOES.HERE:4643
Login with root passwordEuroVPS - Europe's Fully Managed Hosting
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07-22-2005, 03:40 PM #18Web Hosting Master
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Igor,
I won't necessarily agree with you. Instead of making one super box and put more VPS to it, I have always approached it with making two-three less stellar box and put half or one third of VPS on each box. Going with 16 GB of memory per hardware node might be needed in VMWare, but certainly not in Virtuozzo. And no, we don't plan to put 16 GB per node even on our Virtuozzo nodes. 6 GB per node is good. Just put less VPS on it. Spend the money on getting extra 6 GB (in your calculation, a difference of 3600 Euro?) on an extra hardware node or more and distribute your VPS on these additional nodes.
And, no, we don't agree to make 14 drives in RAID5 array. Again, for the same reason. Use more nodes and put less VPS per node.
Our standard setup is simple, 6 GB of memory, 4-5 drives in RAID5, and Dual Xeons CPUs. I have yet to hear our customer even complain about their VPS performance. In fact, on our older node, Dual P3/T 1.13 GHz, 2 GB memory, and RAID1 drives, I have yet to hear any customer complain on the host node performance. Nadda, zilch, nothing.
If you want to make a super duper server and then only put 10 VPS on it, then all the power for you of course For me, less powerful nodes but more in quantity always works better.
And I am not sure what's wrong with SATA drives. Even SW-Soft is not forbidding people to use SATA. We won't use SATA not because of performance (I never really know the performance difference anyway), but for reliability reason.Fluid Hosting, LLC - Enterprise Cloud Infrastructure: Cloud Shared and Reseller, Cloud VPS, and Cloud Hybrid Server
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07-22-2005, 03:46 PM #19Aspiring Evangelist
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We have many VZ nodes, and they're all strong, super servers
We have a couple of baby nodes as spares (baby node = 2GB, 4GB RAM), as well as a node with just 1GB RAM but a 10 drive 1.6" SCSI array full of 182GB disks. We use this one for Backup.
SW-Soft is very much discouraging use of SATA, mail their support and ask them.
Regards,
IgorEuroVPS - Europe's Fully Managed Hosting
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07-22-2005, 09:44 PM #20Web Hosting Master
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Igor thanks for the good info in the previous post.
Your server is really hardcore. But I sort of prefer FHDave's setup.
And if you are squeezing so many clients on that one super server, how are you going to allocate enough CPU power to each account?
I think that the processing power is going to be the bottleneck.
And what about 4 X WD Raptor (SATA) in Raid 10 array?
I don't believe that it is going to be a problem.
Raptor is 10k rpm and supports command queuing as you mentioned earlier.What you can do with Cpanel ------------------> |||||
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07-23-2005, 06:14 AM #21Aspiring Evangelist
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We are not squeezing any clients on any server, don't assume unless you know. CPU is not the bottleneck in this business.
Our processors are idle 70-80% of the time.
Unless you have experience in this business, you cannot imagine how a Virtuozzo node will act under load. I have no idea about the WD Raptor, why would I do that? To have 140GB storage? What will I do with 140GB storage in a VZ node?
Anyway, I'm off this thread. Once you build your first node and get the feel of it, you'll know what I'm talking about.EuroVPS - Europe's Fully Managed Hosting
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07-23-2005, 08:26 AM #22Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by EuroVPS/Igor
Anyway, I'm off this thread. Once you build your first node and get the feel of it, you'll know what I'm talking about
Anyway I am not sure if I understand what you are saying. What's wrong with having 140 GB on a VZ? We are one of the most stable VPS provider you will ever seen around (see if there is any customer complaining about our VPS at all) and yet we have nodes only 70 GB, nodes with 100 GB, nodes with 300 GB, and so on. All running stabily, no downtime, no problem, no nothing.
If it takes you super duper server node to have a stable/fast VPS, then perhaps there is something wrong with the way you define your VPS parameters. I have seen benchmark report where a small VPS on our P3T nodes with 2GB and RAID1 drive is even faster than other VPS reported on a Dual Xeon, 10 drives RAID5 SCSI drives, 12 GB memory node, faster in both the CPU processing power and the disk read/write thruput.
I am happy you own super duper server node. But sorry, it seems like a waste of money in my opinion. 6 GB of extra memory for additional 3200 Euro is just waste ... I will create 2 additional servers with 6 GB of memory each for 3200 additional Euro and I can bet you anytime that the 3 server nodes will run more stable than your super duper server node.Fluid Hosting, LLC - Enterprise Cloud Infrastructure: Cloud Shared and Reseller, Cloud VPS, and Cloud Hybrid Server
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07-23-2005, 08:52 AM #23Aspiring Evangelist
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FHDave, I wasn't talking to you.
Originally posted by EuroVPS/Igor
Anyway, I'm off this thread. Once you build your first node and get the feel of it, you'll know what I'm talking about
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07-24-2005, 08:26 PM #24Web Hosting Master
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I have a virtuozzo machine, I am currently migrating users off it to another because its performance is poor, but i never actually pinpointed the cause yet.
Basically, The machine has 10 SATA drives in a Raid50 configuration on a 3ware raid card, its dual xeon 3.2ghz 6gb ram, and it has maybe 35 VE's, and it runs like S***.
There does not seem to be any substantial amount of disk access I can see, vzstat shows nothing out of the ordinary, any other suggestions on diagnosing really poor performance?
Also, the machine has these "pauses" where like everything haults for 5 seconds or so, horrible, I am embarrased by it.Kevin
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07-24-2005, 08:28 PM #25Aspiring Evangelist
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The reason it pauses, is the drives are NOT designed for this type of work.
I am glad you were honest and shared this with the rest of the class. Now boys and girls, this is why it's GOOD to use SCSI.
Hats off to Kevin BTW.
Regards,
IgorEuroVPS - Europe's Fully Managed Hosting
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