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  1. #1

    Canada has issues too. Post #2: Property rights

    Seems Canada has an issue with letting the Natives actually OWN property. See for yourself:

    A Step Toward Private Property Rights

    In partnership with the BMO Bank of Montreal, the federal government and the Saskatchewan Lac La Ronge Indian Band recently announced a new on-reserve home ownership loan program. The program is intended to promote private home ownership on reserves.

    Pride of ownership provides a powerful motivation for individuals to improve their property. It explains why home owners are willing to spend their time and money mowing their lawns and fixing their houses: The property is theirs and theirs alone. They own it in “fee simple” – that is to say, outright. As the expression goes, no one ever paid money to wash a rented car.

    As a visit to a typical Canadian reserve reveals, such pride of ownership is absent in many native communities. Housing is dilapidated and there is little evidence that occupants care much about their properties.

    Needless to say, this is not a reflection of aboriginals themselves, but rather an indictment of our government’s native policy. Currently, natives who live on reserves cannot own their land. Even the tribes themselves cannot own the land. Instead, the land is held in trust by the Canadian government.

    While the new loan program will not enable the residents of Lac La Ronge Indian Band to own their homes in fee simple – meaning the federal government will still hold the land in trust – owning the bricks and mortar however, is a step in the right direction.

    To promote home ownership on reserves, the program will provide residents with a renewable 29 year lease on the building(s) located on a specific lot. Specifically, the Department of Indian Affairs will transfer a one-time payment of $1.7 million to the Lac La Ronge Indian Band for the new housing and loan program. Eligible residents will be able to obtain a $5,000 grant and a $15,000 short-term loan from the Indian band. The grant and/or loan are to be used to access loans for construction or purchase of owner-occupied, single family dwellings. BMO would provide the balance of the financing through a conventional mortgage. Existing home owners will be able to use the loans for renovations.

    Canadian courts will enforce the rights and obligations associated with ownership of the leases. The leases may also be left to an heir or sold to another person having a right to reside on the reserve. It is anticipated that holders of the leases will assume the mindset and habits of a true property owner. In the words of the Lac La Ronge Indian Band Chief Tammy Cook-Searson, “The option for home ownership gives Lac La Ronge Indian Band members the opportunity to create their own wealth through self-investment.”

    The Canadian Taxpayers Federation will continue to advocate for the federal government to transfer ownership of reserve land to eligible reserve members so fee simple ownership is available to natives. That said, the new housing and loan program is an encouraging step toward fee simple ownership. The band is able to secure more income, residents will become eligible for mortgage financing and Canadian taxpayers are relieved of some of the burden associated with the constant replenishment of native housing stock.
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  2. #2
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    That's great; seems you're going on an anti-canada spree. You have to understand that this land is indian reserves; the united states had similar problems and treatment of indians was much poorer here. Also; it should be noted that most Indians don't believe in ownership, and that plan won't fly.

  3. #3
    Originally posted by Aea
    That's great; seems you're going on an anti-canada spree. You have to understand that this land is indian reserves; the united states had similar problems and treatment of indians was much poorer here. Also; it should be noted that most Indians don't believe in ownership, and that plan won't fly.
    No, I like Canada. I am not Anti-Canadian. But a few like to post Anti-President Bush, etc.. Anti-America Politics, etc... so it is fair to post the propblems in their back yard as well. No?
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  4. #4
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    It ain't easy livin' in a white man's world.

    There are many many issues faced by the natives (or whatever the latest PC term is) Land ownership is only one of them, and one I belive may be on the back burner for awhile

  5. #5
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    I do find it is a little unfair how the natives get free education and no taxes and stuff. I mean, what is so big? The people currently living weren't the first people so why should they get benifits? Sorry if I sound a little mad, but its just annoying how we pay like $1.20 for ONE LETRE of gas and they get it for 60 cents in my city. It is very unfair.

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    How can the government tell them they can't buy and sell their own land?
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  7. #7
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    Because it's not their land? It was taken from them (the same way the orginal American Settlers took land so don't start up an argument there) when the French Settlers came to Canada. Later on when moral reform took place the land was reserved for the tribes. And now Canada is following America by giving them that land for ownership. I don't see this as an issue and more as a reform.


    Also, I don't see anyone that posts anti-american posts on here. Anti-bush posts are aplenty, maybe because someone deserved it. Just because he's a wartime president doesn't mean you have to run around licking his *** at every corner.

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    As the article stated, it's not the land they are giving for ownership - it's the dwelling/structure/"bricks and mortar".

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    well instead of attacking canada in 3 threads why not just merge them into one thread?

    I mean you're so good at pointing out flaws in other countries, yet your so fast to overlook the flaws within our current adminstration.

    I certainly don't think you would want me making threads pointing out those flaws now would you?
    Last edited by Kerry Jones; 07-20-2005 at 11:47 PM.
    Kerry Jones

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    I mean you're so good at pointing out flaws in other countries, yet your so fast to overlook the flaws within our current adminstration.
    What goes around comes around. I don't know how many times I see people from outside the US posting stories criticizing my country that they don't live and have never been to either. If they can dish it out then they should be able to take it. No country is perfect and we all have a lot of problems.

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    Originally posted by CrazyTech
    What goes around comes around. I don't know how many times I see people from outside the US posting stories criticizing my country that they don't live and have never been to either. If they can dish it out then they should be able to take it. No country is perfect and we all have a lot of problems.
    Right, but I think there's a difference between specifically "hunting and gathering" for stories that might happen to shed some negative light on Canada and its politics and simply posting news or opinions related to the U.S. that evoke some sort of reaction in you. One's called trolling; the other's called healthy debate.

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    So why isn't anyone debating the story?

    All you guys are saying is you don't like us talking about you
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  13. #13
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    Originally posted by Take-IT-EZZI
    So why isn't anyone debating the story?

    All you guys are saying is you don't like us talking about you
    What's there to debate? Glenn's point is moot, especially if one actually reads the story! It's -- I quote from the article -- "a step toward private property rights." Again, how is this bad?

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    I lost track of which one we were reading, this one I guess is solved

    I thought we were still talking about the PM's $160 million mistake...

    oops
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  15. #15
    Originally posted by SniperDevil
    What's there to debate? Glenn's point is moot, especially if one actually reads the story! It's -- I quote from the article -- "a step toward private property rights." Again, how is this bad?
    Who said it was bad? I did not. I said they have an issue with it, and presented an article with some information on the subject. Could be a negative or a positive. I am merely showing an issue they are dealing with. It is up to the reader to conclude good or bad.
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    Originally posted by TalkMilitary
    Who said it was bad? I did not. I said they have an issue with it, and presented an article with some information on the subject. Could be a negative or a positive. I am merely showing an issue they are dealing with. It is up to the reader to conclude good or bad.
    That's utterly hilarious. So, by posting a thread with the title, "Canada has issues too," you're saying that by no means are you implying that there's some sort of political agenda behind this? I recall you saying before that you were tired of people making all these anti-American/anti-Bush posts, so in response, you were going to post your views/problems/IMO, trolling regarding Canada.

    How do you actually feel about this issue? Let's discuss it, being that you brought it up. Should Canada not increase the property (and otherwise) rights of their aboriginals? Is this not a step in the right direction? What issue(s) do you have with this?

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    That Canada has issues too!

  18. #18
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    Common types of troll messages or activities:

    -intentionally posting an outrageous argument deliberately constructed around a fundamental but obfuscated flaw or error; often the poster will become defensive when the argument is refuted but may instead continue the thread through the use of further flawed arguments; this is referred to as "feeding" the troll.

    -after a flamewar ensues, pretending to be innocent

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

  19. #19
    Originally posted by SniperDevil
    That's utterly hilarious. So, by posting a thread with the title, "Canada has issues too," you're saying that by no means are you implying that there's some sort of political agenda behind this? I recall you saying before that you were tired of people making all these anti-American/anti-Bush posts, so in response, you were going to post your views/problems/IMO, trolling regarding Canada.

    How do you actually feel about this issue? Let's discuss it, being that you brought it up. Should Canada not increase the property (and otherwise) rights of their aboriginals? Is this not a step in the right direction? What issue(s) do you have with this?
    "issues" does not infer bad. You are doing that. Stop trolling. You made trolling accusations in another threa of mine too.

    I think it is an important issue, and I am glad work is being done on it. I do hope the aboriginals get to own their property.
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  20. #20
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    Great, Glenn, what an interesting thread, now that you've said you weren't trying to enforce any political agenda or anything.

  21. #21
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    Originally posted by case
    Common types of troll messages or activities:

    -intentionally posting an outrageous argument deliberately constructed around a fundamental but obfuscated flaw or error; often the poster will become defensive when the argument is refuted but may instead continue the thread through the use of further flawed arguments; this is referred to as "feeding" the troll.

    -after a flamewar ensues, pretending to be innocent

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll
    This applies to probably like 70% of the threads in this section of the forum.
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  22. #22
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    Right, but I think there's a difference between specifically "hunting and gathering" for stories that might happen to shed some negative light on Canada and its politics and simply posting news or opinions related to the U.S. that evoke some sort of reaction in you. One's called trolling; the other's called healthy debate.
    Well what is that difference? Anytime news here in America happens there's immediately a thread started about it usually full of people from Canada amongst other countries talking about it. Most of the time, it's usually filled with negative comments in some way, shape or form about the country. TalkMilitary has no more of an agenda than others in the forum when they start the same thread.

    It's only classified as trolling when it's done to you, right?

    This applies to probably like 70% of the threads in this section of the forum.
    Agreed.

  23. #23
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    "issues" does not infer bad. You are doing that. Stop trolling. You made trolling accusations in another threa of mine too.
    Glenn, i'm sure you could call me an internet troll, but i'm curious as to what agenda you have against Canada?
    Kerry Jones

  24. #24
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    Originally posted by Kerry Jones
    Glenn, i'm sure you could call me an internet troll, but i'm curious as to what agenda you have against Canada?
    He's upset because we have better beer

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    This article is taken out of context.

    While its true that Aboriginals can't own Reserve Land, there is nothing stated anywhere in the constitution or treaties that prevents them from Owning land Off-Reserve.

    People tend to forget that.

    Indian Reserve:

    In Canada, an Indian reserve is specified by the Indian Act as a "tract of land, the legal title to which is vested in Her Majesty, that has been set apart by Her Majesty for the use and benefit of a band." ......

    ......The Indian Act gives the Minister of Indian Affairs the right to "determine whether any purpose for which lands in a reserve are used is for the use and benefit of the band." Title to land within the reserve may only be transferred to the band or to individual band members.
    Reserve lands may not be seized legally, nor is the personal property of a band or a band member living on a reserve subject to "charge, pledge, mortgage, attachment, levy, seizure distress or execution in favour or at the instance of any person other than an Indian or a band" (section 89 (1) of the Indian Act)......

    Reserve lands and the personal property of bands and resident band members are exempt from all forms of taxation except local taxation. Corporations owned by members of First Nations are not exempt, however. This exemption has allowed band members operating in proprietorships or partnerships to sell heavily taxed goods such as cigarettes on their reserves at prices considerably lower than those at stores off the reserves.
    Last edited by MikeM; 07-21-2005 at 02:37 PM.
    [url]I got nothing/url]

    For clarity's sake, don't use "<ip address of hostname>" use the ACTUAL 32-bit numeric IP address of the machine.

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