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  1. #1
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    Group of companies, is this legal ?

    Hello there,

    I know that I have to ask a lawyer but I need your opinions about this:


    If I register a company LLC …Company X, then can I call X as group of companies and have X-Host, X-Design, X-ISP etc? Will this be legal?

    Will I be able to use X HOST LLC, X DESING LLC and X ISP LLC? Or it is illegal and I can use only LLC for X LLC?

    Please let me know your opinions.

    Sincerely,
    Stelios

  2. #2
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    It's legal

    cough* INet Interactive *cough
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  3. DBA is what you are talking about, correct me if Im wrong folks.
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  4. #4
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    Why DBA?

    It will be registered as X LLC, my problem is then if i can call it X Group Of Companies LLC and have companies(without register them anywhere) X HOST LLC, X DESIGN LLC, X ISP LLC etc.

  5. #5
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    Originally posted by justadollarhostin
    It's legal

    cough* INet Interactive *cough

    Do you know how INet has their company setup, from a legal standpoint?

    If so, please share...if not, please don't pass on potential misinformation that could get someone in serious trouble.

    --Tina
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  6. #6
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    Hello AH-Tina,

    What is your opinion about my question?

    What do you think? Is it legal?


    Thank You,
    Stelios

  7. #7
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    I'm not qualified to give advice on this and neither are most people here. ANY legal information you get here should be checked with your own attorney.

    --Tina
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  8. #8
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    Originally posted by AH-Tina
    I'm not qualified to give advice on this and neither are most people here. ANY legal information you get here should be checked with your own attorney.

    --Tina

    Ok thank you

    I will check this with a lawyer

    I'm just asking for opinions here maybe someone is doing the same.


    Sincerely,
    Stelios

  9. #9
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    ...and maybe someone doing "the same" here is doing it wrong and illegally. If I had to guess, I would say 90% of the hosting "companies" here are not legal entities at all and aren't even reporting income or paying taxes.

    --Tina
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  10. #10
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    Ok Tina,

    I want to be 100% Legal, I will ask a lawyer.

    I’m in Cyprus-Greek but I don't want to register here the company.

    Thank You,
    Stelios

  11. #11
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    Originally posted by steliodj
    Why DBA?

    It will be registered as X LLC, my problem is then if i can call it X Group Of Companies LLC and have companies(without register them anywhere) X HOST LLC, X DESIGN LLC, X ISP LLC etc.
    I believe you can't use the ending "LLC" unless that actual entity is registered as a corporation. For instance, a local auto group has the name XXXXX Auto Sales, Inc. registered, and refers to themselves as the XXXXX group of dealerships, but their individual dealerships are just XXXXX Toyota, XXXXX Nissan, etc., without the Inc.

  12. #12
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    Originally posted by Joshua
    I believe you can't use the ending "LLC" unless that actual entity is registered as a corporation. For instance, a local auto group has the name XXXXX Auto Sales, Inc. registered, and refers to themselves as the XXXXX group of dealerships, but their individual dealerships are just XXXXX Toyota, XXXXX Nissan, etc., without the Inc.
    Incorrect. LLC is not the same as being incorporated.

    --Tina
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  13. #13
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    Im pretty sure if you are an llc you dont use inc after you're name. I may be wrong, but almost positive.
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  14. #14
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    Originally posted by emzec
    Im pretty sure if you are an llc you dont use inc after you're name. I may be wrong, but almost positive.
    If you're an LLC, you use LLC after your name. If you are incorporated, you use Inc.
    Brad Lockman
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  15. #15
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    Originally posted by AH-Tina
    Incorrect. LLC is not the same as being incorporated.

    --Tina
    I know that, it was just too early in the morning for me...

    It's the same concept with the use of the suffix, however.

  16. #16
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    Originally posted by AH-Tina
    Do you know how INet has their company setup, from a legal standpoint?

    If so, please share...if not, please don't pass on potential misinformation that could get someone in serious trouble.

    --Tina
    I appologize if this came off as looking like it would get anybody in trouble. I felt the way iNet's business looks at least from the public's eye fits into what the poster was asking.

    iNet interactive is the "company" behind WHT, HotScripts, DeletedDomains, etc... but you are not visiting:

    iNet Hosting Discussion Forum, you are visiting WebHostingTalk.com. In any event I was just giving an example, accept my appologies if it offended anybody.
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  17. #17
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    He asked if he could call it a group of companies. As far as I know, and I could be wrong, iNet doesn't call WebHostingTalk.com a company...its just a website/domain they own.

    --Tina
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  18. #18
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    IMHO, the way to do it, from what I know, is like this:

    Register your LLC like:

    SomeBusiness LLC

    Then you can have your 'pieces' worded like,

    SomeBusiness Hosting, a division of SomeBusiness LLC
    SomeBusiness Design, a division of SomeBusiness LLC


    Unless you wanted to register LLC's for each 'piece' you cannot call the 'piece' an LLC itself.

    Granted, I am not a lawyer and I reserve the right to be incorrect at any time.
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  19. #19
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    Originally posted by WebOnce
    IMHO, the way to do it, from what I know, is like this:

    Register your LLC like:

    SomeBusiness LLC

    Then you can have your 'pieces' worded like,

    SomeBusiness Hosting, a division of SomeBusiness LLC
    SomeBusiness Design, a division of SomeBusiness LLC
    Well that's a good way to represent them...as divisions.

    But what about if i own the SomeBusiness LLC , and have a the SomeBusiness Host as a division of SomeBusiness LLC and someone come to register it as SomeBusiness Host LLC, this can be done right ? Then I lost the name ad SomeBusiness Host.

    Please correct me

    P.S Just looking for opinions, I know you are not lawyers and I respect posting your opinions.


    Sincerely,
    Stelios

  20. #20
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    Well, the problem for them would be that, as you are conducting commerce as SomeBusiness Host, I believe it would be rather hard for someone to be able to 'justify' to a court that they should be able to use SomeBusiness Host LLC as their company name when you have an established brand of SomeBusiness Host.

    The other option would be to file an official trademark on your divisions which should prevent anyone who does a reasonable name search from going with that name for their business.

    Again, I am not a lawyer, and I reserve my right to be wrong at any time.
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  21. #21
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    What about this is someone able to register SomeBusiness Group Of Companies LLC ?

    Anyone knows?

    Thank You,
    Stelios

  22. #22
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    Originally posted by steliodj

    Anyone knows?

    I bet an attorney knows.

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  23. #23
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    Originally posted by AH-Tina
    I would say 90% of the hosting "companies" here are not legal entities at all and aren't even reporting income or paying taxes.

    --Tina

    I'm not sure which country you're from but in most countries, individuals just like you and me are considered legal entites under the law. You can enter into a legal contract just like I can and so could a coproration.

    Just wondering, how did you come up with the 90% figure?

  24. #24
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    Originally posted by 2fangs
    I'm not sure which country you're from but in most countries, individuals just like you and me are considered legal entites under the law. You can enter into a legal contract just like I can and so could a coproration.

    Just wondering, how did you come up with the 90% figure?

    By legal entity, I meant they are actually reporting/filing/paying taxes on their hosting income.

    My 90% figure is an educated guess, based on the level of questions being posted at WHT everyday by so many "hosting company" owners.

    --Tina
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  25. #25
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    Originally posted by AH-Tina
    By legal entity, I meant they are actually reporting/filing/paying taxes on their hosting income.

    My 90% figure is an educated guess, based on the level of questions being posted at WHT everyday by so many "hosting company" owners.

    --Tina
    I wouldn't think it was far off either. Maybe we should start a "legally registered hosting companies" forum

  26. #26
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    I think you need to follow the advice from Tina and consult a attorney.

    You could also talk to a company that does business registrations.

    http://www.businessfilings.com/

    I filed my LLC through them and use them as my registered agent. They take care of the whole legal side of the LLC and send me the proper forms to be signed when needed for year end reporting.

    You could try asking them some of you questions through live help or their phone number.

    http://www.businessfilings.com/livehelp.htm

    Good Luck.

  27. #27
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    Thank you svdorr

    I will check them now.

    Sincerely,
    Stelios

  28. #28
    DBA = Doing Business As

    It is perfectly legal... as long as you mention that the company behind the service X is XX, LLC.
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  29. #29
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    Originally posted by AF
    DBA = Doing Business As

    It is perfectly legal... as long as you mention that the company behind the service X is XX, LLC.

    Which area of the planet are you giving that legal advice to?

    --Tina
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  30. #30
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    A company is legal as long as you report your income on your tax statement and return.

    You do not need to form a LLC or incorporate to be a legal company. You may claim sole proprietorship.

    You may wish to register with your local county so your name is secure. however you may use any name as long as it is not Trademarked.
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  31. #31
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    It is not necessary to consult an attorney and pay a fee if that is the case. You can simply go to your local library and take out a couple of books that should cover the topic. Most libraries have business and tax resources available.

    Spending time in Barnes and nobles in the business section should clear things up pretty quickly.

    Personally, by going to a lawyer unless you are sure of there reputation you are asking a lot. It doesn't hurt asking, but I would do your own part as well. Most of this stuff really isn't that complicated.

    Always do your own research You won't be sorry in the end, and you will learn more infomation along the way.
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  32. #32
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    Books get outdated, laws change, laws vary from state to state. If a lawyer screws something up for you, there are things you can do to make sure you don't take the fall for it. If you read a book on something and screw it up....guess who's responsible?

    Talk to an attorney. Anything less is just foolish.

    --Tina
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  33. #33
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    I wouldn't rule out talking to an attorney. However relying on someone else is just foolish.

    It is all to common in business that people take the fall from mis-infomation from other "professionals".

    My local library has plenty of current up-to date infomation regarding business laws and taxes.

    Not all lawyers deal with business filings and taxes. It's not as easy as "asking any lawyer".
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  34. #34
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    Just my 0.02c worth here...

    Tina is absolutely right. If you are considering starting a company (and in most parts of the world, "company" means a legally registered business entity) and wish to protect your name and intellectual property you really *must* consult a lawyer. Consulting a trademark attorney is not a bad idea either.

    It can seem as though lawyers fees are expensive, but in the long term it is more expensive to make a mistake.

  35. #35
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    Originally posted by generouswebhostin
    I wouldn't rule out talking to an attorney. However relying on someone else is just foolish.

    It is all to common in business that people take the fall from mis-infomation from other "professionals".

    My local library has plenty of current up-to date infomation regarding business laws and taxes.

    Not all lawyers deal with business filings and taxes. It's not as easy as "asking any lawyer".
    I don't think anyone was suggesting that just "any" lawyer is qualified to deal with this issue.

    My local library has good legal resources too, but doesn't have anything there which gives a definitive answer on the best way to set a company up for trading internationally, and especially on the Net.

    When I set my company up I talked to a law firm which is experienced in international law and following their advice I trademarked my business name. When operating business in an international arena it is important to understand how international law, and the laws of other countries, can impact on your business. I realise many people just set up and go for it. That is their choice, and their risk. Few are aware that there can be serious inconsistencies between the laws of different countries - a TOS written for the US may actually be unenforceable outside the US, for example.

    I personally feel that if someone is serious enough about setting up their business as a legal entity they should not base their decisions on how to structure that business based on comments from anyone other than a lawyer who specialises in the relevant area.

  36. #36
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    Anyone knows?


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    I bet an attorney knows.

    --Tina

    -
    Thats what was said.
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  37. #37
    why don't you use something like prepaid legal. It cost between $20 to $30 a month and you call them all you want. I use to have them when i was setting up a business that I was going to run but deside aginist it for now.

  38. #38
    Just a little about trade marks

    this is from the United States Patent and Trademark Office.

    "A trademark is a word, phrase, symbol or design, or a combination of words, phrases, symbols or designs, that identifies and distinguishes the source of the goods of one party from those of others.

    A service mark is the same as a trademark, except that it identifies and distinguishes the source of a service rather than a product.

    You can establish rights in a mark based on legitimate use of the mark. However, owning a federal trademark registration on the Principal Register provides several advantages"


    The first person to use a "mark" has the legal right to that mark if they registered it or not. All they have to do is prove that they used it first.

    Also anyone can put "TM" at the end of their mark to let people know that it is your mark. the "R" can only be used if the mark is registered with United States Patent and Trademark Office

    all this information is avalible at the website here

    You can form the llc your self and study more about the organization of businesses.

    or you can pay a lawer to do it for you. It depend on how much money you are willing to spend.

    I paid for my first llc organization, but I now understand the process and plan to file my next llc by myself

    One word of warning. The government will not accept the excuse I did not know about that form or fee, trust me I tried. They will just fine you and you can call it the price of education.
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  39. #39
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    My last post on this topic. Before anyone else races to key in more *useful* information about US & State laws, this is just a gentle reminder that steliodj is not in the USA.

    Originally posted by steliodj
    I want to be 100% Legal, I will ask a lawyer.

    I’m in Cyprus-Greek but I don't want to register here the company.

    Thank You,
    Stelios
    US laws are not relevant, unless steliodj is looking to create an off-shore, US-based company, and even then Greek Cypriot laws have to be taken into account. US Trademark laws are completely irrelevant as well unless steliodj is planning on spending many thousands of dollars hiring US Trademark Attorneys (and I know from experience that this is what they charge for overseas applicants!)

    steliodj - follow Tina's advice and seek your own legal opinion. None of us know the ins and outs of business and law in Greek Cyprus.

  40. #40
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    Agreed!

    Laws are different everywhere you go. For instance in Sweden you may not need to register as a business to be a "legal business" however in Canada you need to register.

    In the U.S. I believe you have to register if you sell over $500 a year whereas in Canada you have to register if you sell over $29,000 a year.

    Thing is, no one can tell you for sure the rules and regulations you must abide from unless they know exactly where you live. Yes there is some extremely knowledgable people on here whom can give you advice for your country/state however at the same time there are people on here who do not have a clue what they are doing. At the same time, if you do listen to someones advice on WHT and they are wrong, YOU will be held accountable. I am sure the excuse "Well someone told me on Webhostingtalk that it is this way" doesn't really work.

    And finally, all the above is subject to change

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