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  1. #1

    Question How is VPS account administrated/managed? (total newbie questions)

    Hi,

    introduction
    I have good knowledge on IT generally and I have long experience on using whm/cpanel, I know php/html/javascript and can design websites.

    But: I'm not a "linux" guru (like most of the guys here ) and I know absolutely zero when it comes to managing/administrating (I don't even know what's the difference between these terms...) a server or a virtual private server. In fact: I heard about VPS only few days ago. I'm total newbie in VPS

    My business plan is:
    - To (re-)sell VPS (and dedicated if available) to (local, non-english speaking) companies
    - I will price the service somewhere between €200-500 per month
    - Most of the clients hired an artist to create their website, these artists will recommend my service (and I will recommend theirs)
    - I will provide companies some support/service in the language they speak. I will also offer consultation in terms of website issues. I will handle the set up of their site and necessary domain actions. etc.
    - I'm aiming for 10 000€ monthly income and calculated that I would need anything 20-50 customers to reach this level. I have set up a plan to reach this amount in 5 years.

    I can handle cpanel, but I cannot manage linux (I know pretty much nothing about linux)

    At the moment I have two service provides on my list:
    - PowerVPS
    - Httpme
    (liquidweb.com is also option... but could not get my top 2 list. At the moment this is the situation. I have ruled ServInt away)

    the questions:

    1a) Will PowerVPS provide management/support in that way that I could collect the support issues from the company and redirect them to PowerVPS crew?

    1b) How about Httpme?

    2) What there is to do in VPS if the ISP provides the management? What that rules out? I have tried to fetch information about PowerVPS and Httpme but I cannot get a good picture what the service really promises.

    3a) What kind of uptime PowerVPS has?

    3b) How about Httpme?

    3c) I'm planning to give 99.9% uptime guarantee (or money back - no conditions! if it breaks, they get their money back). I calculated that I could afford to have 2 months with uptime less than 99.9% - this would be acceptable. 3 or more months: no can do. I'm also trying to figure out if 100% guarantee could be possible? This would be a very powerful Benefit for our company and we could build our image on this. But - if the servers have few minute downtimes each month then it's not good. I checked the httpme servers and most of them were rebooted 8 days ago. (I know that computers need to be rebooted.. but how long could it be to manage without reboots? Is there a managed/administrated VPS/dedicated hosting company specializing in providing real 100% uptime?)

    4) What happens if for some strange reason PowerVPS or Httpme suddenly stops doing their business... how hard would it be to transfer 20-50 accounts to another VPS provider? (Notice: this is one requirement for the service provider - I want to make a long term deal with one provider and make sure we both are very happy with this)

    5) What's the difference between managed/administrated vps?

    6) What do I really need to know (technically) to be able to manage/administrate a VPS?

    7) PowerVPS charges about $50-100 per month per virtual server and Httpme just announced their $150-$200 per month deal. At the moment the PowerVPS option sounds better to me - IF - they would provide me enough support.

    8) What about VPS backups? Can the powervps/httpme crew help me to restore backups so that I don't need to take care of this?

    9) I really want to *automate* support as far as possible and concentrate on managing the customer relationship and acquiring more customers. If you have recommendations, please let me hear.

    Thanks for your help!

  2. #2
    1) Your best bet is to email them directly and ask them.

    2) I didn't understand your second question.

    3) Most VPS's do not need to be rebooted unless the main VPS server has a kernel upgrade. Your own individual VPS will never need to be rebooted if run correctly. [Applies to Virtuozzo VPS's only]

    4) If you are using cPanel, the transfer is very easy, providing you have access to the old data and/or backup's at hand.

    5) You are once again advised to email them for their definitions.

    6) Not much, you just need to learn to get used to WHM/cPanel, if that is the control panel of your choice.

    8) Email them for clarification, some companies charge money, some don't.
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  3. #3
    Join Date
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    well a lot of the virtual private servers are in a directory under something like vservers and are chrooted to provide the dedicated like enviroment
    Computer Steroids - Full service website development solutions since 2001.
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  4. #4
    @net-trend: Thanks for your answer.

    1) ok

    2) well... your reply to question 6 actually answers this quite well.

    3) Do you know if this is the case with powervps/httpme (oh, well - I just might ask them...) Thanks for this.

    4) Ok. But isn't there a bug in the cpanel restore option?

    5) Hmm.. ok.

    6) Can you specify *what else* besides whm/cpanel? Not much = nothing? (I really need to know, sorry for sounding stupid)

    8) ok

    @gilbert: do you know if this is the case with PowerVPS or Httpme?
    [edit]found info: at least PowerVPS has Virtuozzo[/edit]
    Thanks for your time. I'm getting much better picture now... but will need some more info.
    Last edited by Indiepath; 07-12-2005 at 12:40 PM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
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    Bristol, UK
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    You wont be able to offer a 100% uptime gurantee because the host server that your VPS runs on will need to be rebooted for kernel updates and patches. These outages are usually less that 5 minutes but are absolutely essential to keep the host OS and virtualiasation software up to date. On my own VPS I have experienced 2 outages for this very reason this year so far. My VPS is with PowerVPS.

  6. #6
    Originally posted by Indiepath
    4) Ok. But isn't there a bug in the cpanel restore option?

    6) Can you specify *what else* besides whm/cpanel? Not much = nothing? (I really need to know, sorry for sounding stupid)
    4) Never encountered any such bug. There used to be bugs a year or two ago but they fixed it.

    6) Basically cPanel/WHM will take care of EVERYTHING. However, there may be occasions where you might have to get your hands dirty in a shell. Seeing, as you are going with a managed solution, you need not worry about that.
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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    36
    Quote Originally Posted by net-trend
    3) Most VPS's do not need to be rebooted unless the main VPS server has a kernel upgrade. Your own individual VPS will never need to be rebooted if run correctly. [Applies to Virtuozzo VPS's only]
    yeah...or if apache crashes. there are a lot of reasons besides a kernel upgrade to need a reboot.

  8. #8
    You wont be able to offer a 100% uptime gurantee because the host server that your VPS runs on will need to be rebooted for kernel updates and patches. These outages are usually less that 5 minutes but are absolutely essential to keep the host OS and virtualiasation software up to date. On my own VPS I have experienced 2 outages for this very reason this year so far. My VPS is with PowerVPS.
    2 outages in 7 months? Thanks for the info. I need to think about this. Uptime would be sometime I'd like to focus on. Maybe I could give 100% uptime guarantee *besides* kernel updates (and there would be something like 4-5 major updates per year?) - would this be a good offer?

    yeah...or if apache crashes. there are a lot of reasons besides a kernel upgrade to need a reboot.
    According to slowdive these reasons still won't apply often?

    4) Never encountered any such bug. There used to be bugs a year or two ago but they fixed it.
    What? I tried to create a full backup and restoring it would not happen... is this the bug? Is it really fixed? What cpanel version are you using?

    Thanks guys for your informative answers. This really clears things a lot!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    slowdive was just telling you will need to have reboots and can't offer 100% uptime. i didn't comment on anything he said.

    net-trend was the person i quoted...he said correctly-run vps's never need to be rebooted aside from kernel upgrades.

    there are a TON of other reasons to need reboots on a vps, and you really should have a firm understanding of that before you open this business.

    to add to what i said and stay on topic....don't expect any of the vps providers to perfectly optimize your vps so that they'll never need to be rebooted.

    if you are dealing with high-bandwidth clients, you will have to understand the risks of using a VPS, and what happens when you don't have enough ram (apache crashes is just one particular example).

  10. #10
    @slaxxx: Thanks for your comments, I really appreciate your help.

    there are a TON of other reasons to need reboots on a vps, and you really should have a firm understanding of that before you open this business.
    Okay. I'm really newbie and that's why I'm asking. Can you please tell me some xamples why vps needs to be rebooted? (sorry if this sounds stupid... but I really want to learn)

    to add to what i said and stay on topic....don't expect any of the vps providers to perfectly optimize your vps so that they'll never need to be rebooted.
    Okay.

    if you are dealing with high-bandwidth clients, you will have to understand the risks of using a VPS, and what happens when you don't have enough ram (apache crashes is just one particular example).
    Okay. I guess in this case I can simply purchase new VPS for high-bandwith clients - or go with a (managed) dedicated if that is what they need.

  11. #11
    Originally posted by slaxxx
    Quote Originally Posted by net-trend
    3) Most VPS's do not need to be rebooted unless the main VPS server has a kernel upgrade. Your own individual VPS will never need to be rebooted if run correctly. [Applies to Virtuozzo VPS's only]
    yeah...or if apache crashes. there are a lot of reasons besides a kernel upgrade to need a reboot.
    Why would a reboot be required if Apache crashes?!
    Last edited by net-trend; 07-14-2005 at 10:23 AM.
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  12. #12
    Originally posted by slaxxx
    there are a TON of other reasons to need reboots on a vps, and you really should have a firm understanding of that before you open this business.
    You mention TONS of reasons, let's see you name 10.

    FYI, I deal with Virtuozzo on a daily basis as we do sell them. So, i'd be very interested to know why reboots are needed aside from kernel upgrades.
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  13. #13
    @Net-Trend:

    As being complete VPS newbie (and I don't want to bash anyone ) I would really like to know what reasons there are for reboots - can you please name the reasons you know? (Altough your post states that there are no other reasons than kernel upgrades)

    Maybe the processor or memory leaks can require apache reboot? Or maybe use of too many threads or something?

  14. #14
    Join Date
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    To get back to the original question - in order to manage a VPS you simply need a SSH client

    As far as reboots go, it seems from this thread that some VPS users reboot it rather than finding the real reason something has stopped.

    In reality, a reboot is only needed for a Kernel upgrade, and in the case of non hot-swap hardware upgrade/replacement.

    If think you need to reboot more often than this, then you should consult a server admin to sort out the problem rather than blindly rebooting your VPS when something is not working.
    CPanel Shared and Reseller Hosting, OpenVZ VPS Hosting. West Coast (LA) Servers and Nodes
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  15. #15
    Originally posted by Indiepath
    @Net-Trend:

    As being complete VPS newbie (and I don't want to bash anyone ) I would really like to know what reasons there are for reboots - can you please name the reasons you know? (Altough your post states that there are no other reasons than kernel upgrades)

    Maybe the processor or memory leaks can require apache reboot? Or maybe use of too many threads or something?
    Memory leaks are rare, if they do happen, a restart of that particular service will very likely clear that up. If you run stable versions of software, memory leaks should not cause you issues.

    A process [like HTTP] that uses too many threads will not be solved by a reboot. A reboot is a temp measure, but why reboot when a service restart will have the same effect? Basically, if you have that issue, the solution is to upgrade.

    Reboots are excuses for people who do not know what to do in a simple situation. Most servers really only get a reboot due to a kernel upgrade, as this is the case with all our servers as well.

    Apache and PHP upgrades never need a reboot, anyone who tells you so, does not know what they are saying.
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  16. #16
    Join Date
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    A good rule of thumb for management is that if it comes with the VPS when you get it, it's fully managed by the provider (assuming they say managed VPS's)

    Hope this helps.
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  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    72
    i'm a vps newbie too.. what if remote desktop goes down or something and you can't get it? then what?

    Also,how the hell do you set up a VNC server if you don't have remote desktop......

    And why the hell does my VPS keep closing my appications when my remote desktop session disconnects? i'm using windows server 2003

    are there any settings that make it terminate programs that aren't signned or added to a whitelist ? I'm running a custom game server and lobby server and it keeps shutting them down!

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    72
    OK, I figured out it's logging me off for inactivity and shutting down the programs I started in that session.

    My question is: HOW CAN I make the programs run even if I log out? IE make them services or something? or make them run without needing my user login? bah

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    Thanks for all your help, elite WHT members.

    I wrote my own service. i was looking for a different approach, but this worked. dARRRHHH>> DERR H *BLURP* DER

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