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  1. #1
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    I need chemicals

    I'm not sure if theres any legal process to obtain them, but i'm looking to buy the chemical " ammonium cloride" and "urea". I'm working on a invention that popped into my head today and it requires these two chemicals. If you can direct me to a place online where I can buy it or a store in Fort Worth, TX i'd greatly appreciate it. I just need enough to create a sample product of my invention so I may submit it to companies.
    Kerry Jones

  2. #2
    Word of advice, don't submit your invention to the invention companies. If it's great, patient it, then do what you please with it.

  3. #3
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    oh, I plan to get it patented myself when I have the money and submit it to a company like "Johnson & Johnson".
    Kerry Jones

  4. #4
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    Kerry, check out sciencelab.com .
    You can order from there online.

    Be sure to know what molarity you want, there are several different kinds and all will react in different ways.
    Haven't been on WHT for 6 years!

  5. #5
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    For the timer part, Timex makes excellent components. You'll also need some electronics experience to have it make the "tick tick tick" noise.
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  6. #6
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    Can't help but wonder what Johnson and Johnson would want with a product made from amonium chloride and urea when their stuff won't even hurt a baby's eyes.

    Just kidding, couldn't help myself. Good Luck with your search!
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  7. #7
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    For the timer part, Timex makes excellent components. You'll also need some electronics experience to have it make the "tick tick tick" noise.
    please be serious in this thread. I have no desire to build a product that causes harm to the enviroment or humans. If I can get it off the ground everyone in a warm climate will want it. I'm not saying anymore about it beyond that point.

    I found ammonium chloride on sciencelab.com, however its not a pure form of it. this type is diluted hydrogen. I'm also looking for only a few oz to try out my experiment. I'm still searching for a pure form of urea.

    Can't help but wonder what Johnson and Johnson would want with a product made from amonium chloride and urea when their stuff won't even hurt a baby's eyes.
    hehe, well mainly the product will be O2.
    Last edited by Kerry Jones; 06-30-2005 at 01:16 AM.
    Kerry Jones

  8. #8
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    I don't think you can get pure forms of chemicals without going through a University but hey if you can that's great. That said have you tried a local University?
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  9. #9
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    I haven't tried a local university yet and I only need a few ounces to experiment with the product i'm trying to develop.
    Kerry Jones

  10. #10
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    http://www.sciencelab.com/page/S/PVAR/10428/SLU1063

    http://www.sciencelab.com/page/S/PVAR/10408/SLA4741

    Not sure what "flavor" you wanted, but picked what seemed suitable.



    An a-z list if thats not what you needed.

    http://www.sciencelab.com/page/S/CTGY/10405

  11. #11
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    Taken from CNN.COM:

    Today, a local named Kerry Jones blew him and his house up today. It appears that he was mixing chemicals in his basement. These chemicals reacted in a negative way and caused an eruption. The Drug Investigation Unit is still trying to clarify which drugs he was trying to cook.


    Okay, so I'm bad at stories. Yes, try local uni's and see if they can get you some. Good luck!

  12. #12
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    Trying to come out with a pill that prevents lactate dehydrogenase??

  13. #13
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    I work in an undergraduate research lab...yep, they have lot of chemical.
    You could register to work in a research lab as it sound like you have the experience to do this.
    All of us undergraduat in the program learned about labs that blew up...in one case, the scientist ended up with herpe all over her body.

  14. #14
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    the reason why i'm wanting these chemicals is because when the two are mixed together it causes a cold chemical reaction. If you can find two chemicals that mix together that causes a cold chemical reaction, please let know.

    they have lot of chemical.
    You could register to work in a research lab as it sound like you have the experience to do this.
    I have only basic chemistry knowledge.... not enough to work in a lab.

    [QUOTE]

    did she get the disease?
    Kerry Jones

  15. #15
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    Kerry, sorry to have to tell you this, but the endothermic reaction as a result of mixing Urea and Ammonium Chloride already exists in many products, namely coolpacks for lunchboxes etc.

    Also, as urea is a toxicant (and as such is used in pesticide production), you wouldn't be able to use it in any kind of air cooling system.

  16. #16
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    Also, as urea is a toxicant (and as such is used in pesticide production), you wouldn't be able to use it in any kind of air cooling system.
    It would be seperate similar to a cool pack.

    I think it would be easy to get Ammonium Chloride( NH4CL) since it would require just regular household Ammonium and Chlorine?
    Last edited by Kerry Jones; 06-30-2005 at 02:26 PM.
    Kerry Jones

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    Oh god no, don't mix those!

  18. #18
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    Originally posted by Kerry Jones
    I think it would be easy to get Ammonium Chloride( NH4CL) since it would require just regular household Ammonium and Chlorine?
    I think you've just exposed yourself as a dangerous amateur to whom nobody should be selling chemicals.

    That's like saying Sodium and Chlorine should be easy to obtain since they mix together to make table salt.

    In reality, you will not be able to order Cl or Na, as both are incredibly dangerous substances in atomic form. Sodium is so volatile that it explodes when thrown into water. Chlorine gas was used as a chemical weapon in WWI.

    There's also no such thing as household "ammonium". Ammonia is what you're after, only when mixed with another substance is it changed to 'ammonium'.

    If you don't know this you shouldn't be playing around with chemicals as a 'hobby'.

    When working with Chlorine gas cylinders, one should always have a container of Ammonia present. Ammonia fumes, when squeezed out of the container, will react violently with any Cl gas, forming a thick white smoke. This is how Cl leaks are detected.

    Ammonium Chloride is not made by mixing Ammonia with Chlorine. It's likely derived from a different (safer) reaction altogether.
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  19. #19
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    I think you've just exposed yourself as a dangerous amateur to whom nobody should be selling chemicals.
    I never claimed to be an expert at chemistry and would never try it thats why I asked. I've done only a few chemical experiments in chemistry.

    f you don't know this you shouldn't be playing around with chemicals as a 'hobby'.
    Its not a "hobby", i'm working on an invention idea.
    Kerry Jones

  20. #20
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    How endothermic are you looking for the reaction to be?

    Ammonium Thiocyanate + Barium Hydroxide works..

    Ba(OH2) . 8 H2O (s) + 2 NH4SCN (s) = Ba(SCN) (aq) + 2 NH3 (aq) + 10 H2O

    (the formula for it)


    BUT:

    Barium is a toxic metal and must be disposed of by EH&S. Collect the chemicals from the endothermic reaction in a waste bottle, label the waste tag, and take to EH&S collection site.

    The sulfuric acid solution can be neutralized with NaOH and washed down the drain.

    or just normal ammonium nitrate + water works too.

  21. #21
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    Heh, as BigBison said, good luck (but don't, even if you can) getting chlorine by itself. An element by itself can have completely different properties in a molecule.

  22. #22
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    well the chemicals will be in a sealed metal rod, so I need something that can be disposed of in the trash.
    Kerry Jones

  23. #23
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    Are you planning on carrying out this 'experiment' in your house? If so I'd advise you not to - the risk far outweighs the benefit. Get into a lab and pay a chemist to do it for you. Although chemicals may seem to be simple and non-volatile mixing together the wrong amounts can lead to a very dangerous problem.

  24. #24
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    Kerry,

    What do you think that you can do that scientists working for the cooling companies can't do? A lot of the processes are patented, especially with the use of ammonium chloride. You should also pay a chemist to look over your equations and perform the experiment in a controlled lab with the appropriate fire supression and fume control.

  25. #25
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    You could get ammonium chloride by combining hydrochloric acid and ammonia. I don't recommend doing that in an amateur home lab because of dangers of corrosive fumes and risk of splattering corrosive hydrochloric acid.

  26. #26
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    United Nuclear

    However, I sure hope you know what you're doing.

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    /me wonders if the local Department of Homeland Defense has been to Kerry's house yet?

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    Computer Steroids - Full service website development solutions since 2001.
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  29. #29
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    Kerry,

    What do you think that you can do that scientists working for the cooling companies can't do? A lot of the processes are patented, especially with the use of ammonium chloride. You should also pay a chemist to look over your equations and perform the experiment in a controlled lab with the appropriate fire supression and fume control.
    If I had the money to take it to a chemist I would... however they can be very expensive and it will take me a few months to save up for a patent. Its not too dangerous as the chemicals i'm planning to use are the same of a "cool gel".
    Kerry Jones

  30. #30
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    Originally posted by Kerry Jones
    If I had the money to take it to a chemist I would... however they can be very expensive and it will take me a few months to save up for a patent. Its not too dangerous as the chemicals i'm planning to use are the same of a "cool gel".
    Do you know how much the patient going to cost. I not saying you can't do it, but be ready to drop tons of cash.

    First your going to need a patient lawyer to do BIG research, then have an engineer do design layouts, then have the lawyer do all the paper work, then try to get a patient...

    Also get ready to have UL do there testing too... They’re your going to spend about 25+ Grand...

    Get ready to mortgage the house.

    Also just because you have a patient does not mean the Big Boy's are going to talk to you, they may look sign some paper work that there lawyers will destroy and find loop holes... then send what they seen overseas and import there stuff....

    But if you do get it good luck, just want to say it's not easy, as we have had things stolen...

    Just watch out for the back stabbers… there are many of them.
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  31. #31
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    Originally posted by Kerry Jones
    Its not a "hobby", i'm working on an invention idea.
    Mixing chemicals together with the goal of patenting the result, without having any training in chemistry, qualifies you as a hobbyist -- not an inventor.

    I think some good old-fashioned (ancient, in fact) scientific method would be a better starting point, than procuring chemicals.

    Can you express the results you are trying to achieve as proper chemical formulas? Have you devised specific experiments whose results can be measured to compare the variables between concentrations of compounds, procedures, temperature, etc.?

    Only after you have some idea of what exactly you're trying to accomplish should you start mixing chemicals in a bathroom laboratory -- this should never be 'random'. Real chemistry most often involves far more preparation than actual lab time.

    Judging by what you've said in this thread, I urge you to get a year of college-level Chemistry (and lab) instruction under your belt before pursuing this idea, then maybe you'll understand why you're scaring those of us who have.

  32. #32
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    I was once told if you mix ammonia and chlorine (bleach) the fumes create something like mustard gas. Is this true?

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  33. #33
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    I was once told if you mix ammonia and chlorine (bleach) the fumes create something like mustard gas. Is this true?
    I've mixed the two together once and it doesn't create a mustard gas. I however inhaled some of the fumes and it made me feel naucetous.
    Kerry Jones

  34. #34
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    Originally posted by Kerry Jones
    I've mixed the two together once and it doesn't create a mustard gas. I however inhaled some of the fumes and it made me feel naucetous.
    Mixing the two is actually quite dangerous! See here.



    Bleach, when mixed with acidic substances such as ammonia, toilet bowl cleaners, drain cleaner, or vinegar, forms toxic gases which can cause coughing, loss of voice, a feeling of burning and suffocation, and even death.

  35. #35
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    Originally posted by Xoopiter-Jeff
    I was once told if you mix ammonia and chlorine (bleach) the fumes create something like mustard gas. Is this true?
    You get pure chlorine gas. Squeeze some ammonia fumes into it and you'll get the telltale white smoke. When you inhale bleach, or smell swimming pool filter effluent, that chlorine smell is chloramine (another chlorine/ammonia compound) rather than raw chlorine gas.

    Raw chlorine gas is one of the most toxic substances known. Inhaling 2.5ml of Cl gas is enough to kill most humans. A halogen, only Hydrogen is a more powerful oxidant. When it comes in contact with wet skin, the skin is almost immediately dissolved. Same with the tissue in the lungs. Picture death by Ebola, but quicker.

    Chlorine gas leaks kill all vegetation, downwind at or near ground level, until dispersed. When I managed swimming pools (and was a chemistry student) I worked with chlorine gas cylinders, both 150lb and 1-ton. I had to maintain two extra certifications for working with the gas, and know my way around a Scott Air-Pak (or similar). You use 'blow-by' mode so air is always coming out of the facemask, to prevent eyeburn. This limits your air supply.

    If you're sweaty or wet and near a chlorine leak, the safest place is in the nearest pool of water. Tent a wet towel or shirt over your head for an air pocket. The chlorine gas will react with the water in the towel and make hydrochloric acid, but you won't breathe it in and it will stay off your skin. Acid burns are better for you than chlorine gas. It may also turn into bleach on the fabric, it's been a long time and I do computer stuff now.

    If you're dry, you need to hold your breath until you can get above the gas -- chlorine is denser than air and sinks to the ground, killing grass and shrubs but not trees. You can't flee, so climb.

    Chlorine gas was used on the battlefields of Europe during WWI. It fell out of favor due to the inhumanity, as well as the tendency to take out friendly troops when the wind unexpectedly shifted. In the past 20 years, the insurance companies have seen to it that most swimming pools have switched over to solid or liquid (bleach) forms of chlorine due to the dangers of the gas.

    More recently, I'm sure it's become even more difficult and expensive to obtain chlorine gas due to terrorism. This is unfortunate. Handled safely and used properly, the gas form is much more economical than the liquid or solid compounds. Being more concentrated makes it cheaper to transport.

    I live a block from a rail line which carries only coal. I wouldn't live within 20 miles of a rail line carrying chlorine tanks on a regular basis, ruling out most all of urban America.

    http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/01/07/train.wreck/

    This sort of thing happens all the time. In Fort Collins, CO about 8 years ago when there was the big flood (you may remember it submerged the Colorado State University library) a chlorine tanker was part of the freight train which was washed off its tracks.

    It didn't rupture. Had it done so, the death toll would have been dozens at least, including many rescue workers. They were out in the rain and flood water rescuing the residents of the demolished trailer park, next to where the derailment occurred.

    http://www.cnn.com/US/9707/30/ft.collins.flood/

    As a boy growing up, I spent lots of time fishing and catching crawdads in placid little Spring Creek, a couple blocks from my home. I had friends who lived in that trailer park, but not at the time of the flood. (sorry o/t)

    http://www.watertechonline.com/news....e=4&N_ID=54568

    Yes, as that article indicates, a chlorine gas leak also corrodes machinery and electronic components. Nasty stuff.

    http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc.../chem03550.htm
    Last edited by BigBison; 07-01-2005 at 01:16 AM.

  36. #36
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    Basically.. from reading this..
    Kerry don't try this unless you have a death wish...

    Go into a controlled environment such as a real lab.. with ventilation hoods .. etc.

    And get a professional to watch over you.
    Most universities have a program where you pair up with a real chemist and work together [it's free too]

  37. #37
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    Originally posted by JSpired
    Mixing the two is actually quite dangerous! See here.
    Ohmygod! How did the EPA get it so wrong? Sorry folks, that link is full of incorrect information. First of all, of the 'acidic substances' listed, only vinegar is acidic. Drain cleaner, etc. are strong bases.

    For those who don't know Chemistry (like the EPA...) a base is the opposite of an acid. A basic substance is slippery, unlike an acid. Think soap. Or drain cleaner, toilet cleaner, ammonia, etc.

    Also, chloramine gas isn't deadly. Chlorine gas is. I suppose most people reading this will assume I'm wrong and the EPA is right, but I promise you, in this case I know better.

  38. #38
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    I took organic chemistry this school year. Right now I am in an undergraduate biology research program.
    Kerry, this is an insult to scientists. Of course, I don't have an associate degree, a bacholar degree, a Master degree or a pHD. This is a learning experience for me.
    We are not allow to start up our own experience. We can't even do anything unless it is approve by our sponsor/advisor. When we are given an assignment, we are taught the safety process of the chemical we are going to work with. I am a scientist...at least for the summer I am. I had to sit along with all undergraduate students (who are working with the pHD students in differnet labs) and watch those video and hear about those news of the disaster in doing lab research.

    Any scientists here would tell you this is an insult. Lean the basic of the chemical you want to work with. Learn about the safety proceed. Learn what those chemicals can not be use with and what they can be use with. Learn about the products of the reactant. I am concern for you. What I learned so far this summer...and what I have seen on tapes along with other students....is a disaster. It is something I hope will never happen to me or in the lab I am working in. Sure organic chemistry is fun...but chemicals are dangerous and need to be taken serious.
    You want to take your science ideas serious...get into a lab....gain the knowledge and experience...get serious about science.

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