Results 1 to 39 of 39
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Posts
    3,262

    AMD Sues Intel

    http://neowin.net/comments.php?id=29...=main#comments

    AMD said Intel’s illegal and unfair actions include the following:

    * Intel has forced major customers into exclusive or near-exclusive deals;
    * Intel has conditioned rebates, allowances and market development funding on customers’ agreement to severely limit or forego entirely purchases from AMD;
    * Intel has established a system of discriminatory, retroactive, first-dollar rebates triggered by purchases at such high levels as to have the practical and intended effect of denying customers the freedom to purchase any significant volume of processors from AMD;
    * Intel has threatened retaliation against customers introduc ing AMD computer platforms, particularly in strategic market segments;
    * Intel has established and enforced quotas among key retailers effectively requiring them to stock overwhelmingly, if not exclusively, Intel-powered computers, thereby artificially limiting consumer choice;
    * It has forced PC makers and technology partners to boycott AMD product launches and promotions;
    * Intel has abused its market power by forcing on the industry technical standards and products which have as their central purpose the handicapping of AMD in the marketplace.


    I'm a big AMD fan, but never saw this coming.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    510
    it would be funny to see amd loose
    Get help with your server optimization - A forum on server optimization...
    ExoPHPDesk - Powerful PHP HelpDesk

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Duluth MN
    Posts
    3,864
    If you look at it, Intel does do a lot of those things. Dell for instance does not offer any AMD solutions.

    Some might say it's Intel's fault for forcing exclusive deals, others might argue its AMD's fault for not offering competitive counter-offers.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    1,145
    Originally posted by amish_geek
    If you look at it, Intel does do a lot of those things. Dell for instance does not offer any AMD solutions.

    Some might say it's Intel's fault for forcing exclusive deals, others might argue its AMD's fault for not offering competitive counter-offers.
    Dell does not use AMD because AMD can't produce the amount of chips Dell needs. I love AMD, but they will always be #2.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    1,750
    Originally posted by Mike_R
    it would be funny to see amd loose
    Why do you say that?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    295
    Everyone knows Intel because they got ahead first. The general public just don't realise they're not anymore and lots of people I know ask me which intel is better.. I always say none of them and to go for an AMD. They're cheaper, the new versions run cooler and higher quality. They're just not as well known by the public.

  7. #7
    This will be an interesting case to follow ..

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    2,179

    AMD sues Intel!

    http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/dis...628010541.html

    I think it's not that legit but heh - AMD is just desperate
    ServGrid - www.servgrid.com - Affordable and Reliable SSD Cloud Solutions
    Premium 10G Network, 2(N+1) Powerplant and SSD Performance
    Web, Reseller, KVM VPS, Storage and Private Cloud Hosting
    Click here to see our SSD Benchmarks!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,024
    Wow ... this will be interesting. Didn't this happen to Microsoft too couple years back?
    <<< Please see Forum Guidelines for signature setup. >>>

  10. #10
    Yea, this has been discussed in the WHT Lounge. I wouldn't mind seeing AMD win this lawsuit...

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    2,179
    O if this is supposed to be in the lounge - please move it there - sorry

    similar thing to microsoft yes - i expect ismilar results as well

    I think AMD is doing this as a publicity stunt that can hurt // benefit their image severely based on the results
    ServGrid - www.servgrid.com - Affordable and Reliable SSD Cloud Solutions
    Premium 10G Network, 2(N+1) Powerplant and SSD Performance
    Web, Reseller, KVM VPS, Storage and Private Cloud Hosting
    Click here to see our SSD Benchmarks!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    617
    cool. very interesting news.
    i'm amazed at the the amount of pages wrote.
    Linux System admin (since 2001)
    * cPanel/WHM, Directadmin, Apache, DNS, PHP, HyperVM, Lxadmin, Openvz*

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Solar Star system
    Posts
    183

    Re: AMD sues Intel!

    Originally posted by The Broadband Man
    http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/dis...628010541.html

    I think it's not that legit but heh - AMD is just desperate
    It's legit alright.

    Also it's true - but need to prove it now. INTEL (or like any other business) - is using his power to "stab in back" AMD whenever they can.

    It's also normal - it's business

    If u ever wonder why DELL dont ship AMD servers - (or in past 2 years others also did not had AMD in offer) - now u know why.

    It's very hard for AMD to reach out - cause of intel.


    N.

  14. #14
    Microsoft was split apart into seperate divisions a few years ago, if I recall correctly, due to their monoply.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    5,954
    Nowdays AMD presents a signifigantly higher value for most markets. Their CPU's are just as stable as Intels, their design, options, and archetecture in the past few years has been signifigantly ahead of Intels (first dual core, first "mass available 64 bit, first consumer/end user market 8 way computing, etc.)

    If they have a case, I say all the power to them. Intel has maintained a monopoly on the CPU market for decades now. If AMD they can establish that Intels monopoly is based on illegal/unfair business practises, and not simply on consumer choice/a better product, they have every right to be upset, and expect action.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    876
    Originally posted by CyanoX
    Microsoft was split apart into seperate divisions a few years ago, if I recall correctly, due to their monoply.
    No, that was overturned on appeal.

  17. #17
    It would seem to me that the objective of the anti-trust law is actually self-defeating. Its primary purpose, I would suppose, is to promote competitiveness. In taking companies who appear to excel in their competitive effectiveness to task (who are unfortunately sometimes effectively edging out the competition), it seems in effect to be quenching the spirit of competition.

    Could this be one of those fundamental flaws that is making the US less competitive compared to some of its global trading partners resulting in the existing trade deficit? And I would think that introducing protectionists' measures to 'solve' its problems would succeed only to encourage American businesses to drag their feet in much needed reformation.
    "Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men."

  18. #18

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    3,854
    Originally posted by Mituozo
    Everyone knows Intel because they got ahead first. The general public just don't realise they're not anymore and lots of people I know ask me which intel is better.. I always say none of them and to go for an AMD. They're cheaper, the new versions run cooler and higher quality. They're just not as well known by the public.
    Agreed..I always tell people the same. Ever since I looked into AMD years ago and bought my first AMD processor (Duron 800mhz), i've never looked back. I try to buy from AMD when it comes to processors. I find they simply perform much better and are much more stable. Some people need to understand that clock speed isn't everything...
    InnoHosting, Performance Web Hosting || US: 1-888-522-INNO UK: 0800 612 8075
    Web Hosting - Virtual Servers - Managed Servers - Application Hosting
    Reseller Hosting with WHMCS & Preloaded KB | SSL | activGuard | End User Support
    LiteSpeed / CloudLinux / Idera Backups / True 24x7 Support / 10+ Years in Business

  20. #20
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    876
    I'm happy with my Intel but have never owned an AMD so cannot compare.

    The thing I don't understand with the US is that Microsoft and Intel (and other similar companies that have been in an anti-trust situation) are such massive exporters and employers that are creating huge wealth for the US... but the US seems so intent on making them less competitive and reducing some of their advantage, providing not only other companies with greater opportunities (that's obviously the positive), but potentially pushing a lot of the prosperity offshore.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Tas, Australia
    Posts
    2,488
    I am always too lazy to build my own machine, so I usually buy those packaged nicely from big vendors like Dell, Acer etc. and I can testify to the fact that none of them offer AMD solutions, which I hate.

    However, when it comes to Laptops, I am loyal to the Centrino...
    New site: www.talkutas.com

  22. #22
    Ehh I would only use intels for server base use as they have good load balance and sustain a good work load. But dont go with them if your a true gamer. Their acceleration is slow, programs start up slow, by pass ports to mother board are slower with video cards. Their acceleration speed seems to be their weakness I think. But anyways, intel should have played fair, now they gota pay the price...Literally...

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Cebu
    Posts
    1,039
    He who hates correction will die. --Proverbs 15:10
    Jeffrey's Cute Blog | My stockphotos and illustrations

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Scotland, UK
    Posts
    2,900
    Originally posted by freak
    I am always too lazy to build my own machine, so I usually buy those packaged nicely from big vendors like Dell, Acer etc. and I can testify to the fact that none of them offer AMD solutions, which I hate.

    However, when it comes to Laptops, I am loyal to the Centrino...
    Acer do sell AMD processors - they've got a wide variety of them in their laptops, from the AMD Athlon 64 to the AMD Turion (AMD's answer to Centrino). Sure, they might not have as many models with AMD in them, but they still have a fair few

    I really hope that AMD do win, as from what I’ve read over the years it does appear that Intel is trying to force big players not to stock AMD processors. Both Intel and AMD make good processors, and so it's unfair to see AMD's "ignored" simply because Intel is bullying companies into not using them.
    Alasdair

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    2,508
    Hope this turns out good for AMD. They make the better product but unfortunately Intel has a strangle on things.
    Linux junkie | steward.io

  26. #26
    Originally posted by varg
    Dell does not use AMD because AMD can't produce the amount of chips Dell needs. I love AMD, but they will always be #2.
    Reason being is that Intel has illegally forced its customers to exclusively use its products, and punish those customers if they use AMD. Thus AMD cannot meet the amount of chips Dell would need, AMD cannot expand because Intel is crippling them with there tactics and they do not have the kind of money Intel can throw around...

    If I had money I would definitely be buying a lot of AMD stocks about now, when this lawsuit gets cleared up the tables will turn

    1. AMD
    2. Intel

    I suggest taking a look at this following link:
    http://www.amd.com/breakfree

    Also make sure to glance at the 48 page report, apparently Intel has been bullying AMD around since the early 80's and I am glad that something is being done about it.

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    621
    Are they gonna put this on the courtroom door?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails intel.jpg  
    Shawn Auton
    Racked Hosting
    Web Hosting, Unmetered Dedicated Hosting and SHOUTcast Hosting

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Northwest Colorado
    Posts
    4,630
    Wow! I knew it would be about Itanium. If they can prove some of the allegations they make in the complaint, they have every chance at winning this suit. Their legal basis is sound:

    Intel’s conduct has unfairly and artificially capped AMD’s market share, and constrained it from expanding to reach the minimum efficient levels of scale necessary to compete with Intel as a predominant supplier to major customers.
    That's exactly what ChokEy just pointed out. Also, varg, the issue is 64-bit chips -- not a high-volume desktop processor for the likes of Dell. AMD's complaint is excellent reading. After noting the key differences in 64-bit processor development, they point out that Intel copied Opteron. This makes it tough for Intel to claim their 64-bit architecture was superior, reinforcing AMD's claim that they ought to have a larger chunk of the market.

    Tellingly, AMD’s market share has not kept pace with its technical leadership. Intel’s misconduct is the reason.
    That's exactly where I agree with AMD and congratulate them for not taking Itanium lying down. That CPU was horrible to begin with, throw in the delays and it was an utter joke when it finally debuted. What company in their right mind would have forged ahead with that product, and not cancelled it?

    A monopoly with so much market share that it could absorb the effects of having a next-generation processor fail in the marketplace. A shrewd move. Had Intel not offered any 64-bit architecture they would have lost a lot more market share to AMD than they did with the Itanium jalopy.

    In and of itself, that isn't illegal, really. However, if AMD can prove that a single manufacturer was 'discouraged' from building Opteron systems due to pricing penalties from Intel (the WOW part of this, if true) for buying Opterons, well that's exactly the sort of thing that the antitrust laws came into being to prevent.

    Which AMD so shrewdly points out right from the getgo in their complaint. I like their style on the webpage, too. It would be OK for AMD to threaten PC manufacturers with higher prices for their chips if they bought too many Intels. They'd get laughed at if they tried that, right?

    What isn't so funny, is when that threat comes from the company with 80% of the market by units sold. Can ya say 'greed'? The only reason for Intel to have done that, if true, was to dominate a competitor whose superior technology posed a threat to Intel's market share. That, I assure you, is illegal. If AMD can prove this, then they certainly aren't whining about being in second place.
    Eric J. Bowman, principal
    Bison Systems Corporation coming soon: a new sig!
    I'm just a poor, unfrozen caveman Webmaster. Your new 'standards' frighten, and confuse me...

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    7,391
    I have yet to test out and build a PC with an AMD Chip.
    █• CirtexHosting Providing Affordable and Quality Web Hosting & Reseller Hosting since 2003
    █• LINUX based cPANEL/WHM Shared and Reseller Web Hosting with Fantastico
    █• HostV VPS Premium Virtual Private Servers & Dedicated Servers powered by cPanel/WHM
    █• We transfer your sites over quickly! I eat penguins for breakfast ...

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    621
    Well your missing out.
    Shawn Auton
    Racked Hosting
    Web Hosting, Unmetered Dedicated Hosting and SHOUTcast Hosting

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    In My Own World
    Posts
    972
    The way I look at it, its called competition. I am sure AMD has every opportunity to beat Intel pricing.

    Tracy Phillips

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    World Wide Web
    Posts
    230
    If we see the situation from a different angle it is very similar to what Microsoft did for a long time to curb competition from Mac and IBM.

    My technical legal understanding says that either they'll reach an out of court understanding or the result of this suit will be the same as that of MS and Apple.
    Articles, Blog Posts, Content Development and Copy Writing
    Skype me or Please send a PM for Contact Information

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    5,954
    Originally posted by Mr. Weberize
    The way I look at it, its called competition. I am sure AMD has every opportunity to beat Intel pricing.
    In a normal market, it indeed is called competition. In a market where one player has a monopoly however (and in this case, a pretty darn huge one), its simply unfair competition. With monopolies, innovation is snuffed out, as the monopolist can twist the market around their finger, pricing levels become inflated, and obviously choice becomes nearly non-existant.

    Look at it this way, AMD chips are already around 40% cheaper then Intel chips (at least for us suckers that have to buy retail), they run signifigantly cooler (AMD64 versus the equivalent P4 has a thermal rating of around 20-30% less), they have more features (32/64 bit arch. for example), yet you cant really buy any major brand name PC's with these chips.

    Given this, being the fact they dominate essentially every aspect that makes a CPU product appealing, does it not seem odd to you that none of the major manufacturers use them? That in itself establishes the unfair competition statement (because with so many blatently clear advantages, nothing else I can imagine would hold manufacturers back, aside from quantity [which would be attributed to Intel "capping their market"], or "penalties" brought on from third parties).

    I hope for all our sakes AMD wins this one, though I wouldn't put my money in AMD stocks in all honesty. I have a lot less faith in the legal system in general, though their case appears strong. Looking at the retail market, AMD is playing with nearly every handicap (smaller quantities, higher manufacturing costs [on relative terms], lower brand awareness, being "locked out" from doing business with most vendors, etc.), you've got to admit, AMD's beating the pants off Intel, considering their products have consistently remained ahead of the curve, and their pricing is unbelievably better (considering the handicaps they're working under), and they're still strong in the game throughout the process.

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Solar Star system
    Posts
    183
    Originally posted by Mr. Weberize
    The way I look at it, its called competition. I am sure AMD has every opportunity to beat Intel pricing.
    U are very very very wrong.

    Competition is when u have freedom to sell, offer etc - and based on your product u will make profit or not (success).

    The thing that Intel did (and still doin) was next.

    Intel guy come to DELL. Knock! Knock! - "What's up dell, how u doin? How us on party yesteday? Who was that cute blond girl?" - "Anyway, I have some cpu's to sell, come here check this out!" - "Anyway budy - I will give u special price - but the thing is next - if u wana buy from us - u cant buy from AMD, are u cool with that?" - "I know, I know - sounds like a blackmail, but man, it's a competition!" - "Anyway, as agree we will deliver next week first shiping!" - "It was plesure doin business with u guys, see u on party next week man, hook me up with that blond girl!"

    Competition my as*

    N.

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    5,954
    Actually I've got a great example that just dawned on me.

    We used to use Istop bandwidth. When we signed up, the owner of Istop sent me a rather nasty email (the guys a bit of a jerk) essentially saying "If I ever see you 'poaching' any of my customers, I wont hesitate to cut you off and terminate your services" (considering we were buying 20mbps from them at the time on a leased line, single homed, a very harsh statement).

    Now thats *just* competition. It makes the guy look like a real jerk, yes, though you can understand why he said it (nobody wants to sell a product, and have their customers aggregate together or under another, its bad for his business).

    *however* if they held a monopoly on the market (and thus the vast majority of customers, were indeed already Istop customers), well that wouldn't be "just business" anymore would it? We would be completely unable to grow since if any of their customers moved over, we'd be snuffed out of business. Fortunatly that was not the case, we shook our heads, said "how unprofessional was that?" and moved on (selling notably to the rest of the market until Istop eventually [and inevitably] went out of business).

  36. #36
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Northwest Colorado
    Posts
    4,630
    I skimmed the complaint before, now that I've given it a thorough read, I'm of the opinion that Intel researched the entire body of antitrust case law, looking for ideas on how to better squish AMD like a bug. They certainly covered all the bases, even coming up with a couple of new tactics.

    While the financial pressure takes some unraveling to see the effects, there are a few incidents like this one which are outright bullying:

    Nor is Intel above threatening retailers to gain preferred treatment. For example, at the recent CeBit computer show in Hanover, Germany (the largest computer show in the world), a German chain, Vobis, hung an AMD Turion64 banner from its booth as part of a co-marketing agreement with AMD and its OEM partner (Yakamo) to announce AMD’s new mobile microprocessor. Intel’s German general manager and its vice president for mobile products demanded that the Turion64 banner be removed. When Vobis’ CEO declined, the Intel representatives threatened immediately to stop microprocessor shipments to Vobis’ supplier. The banner was removed before the CeBit show opened.
    Good grief! At CeBit? Aren't those comic-book-show tactics? Hey! Is that an AMD banner? Take it down or we won't let you buy our products anymore. What are they, 12?

  37. #37
    I cannot wait to see what happens in court with this, after the dust settles. All we can look forward to is great competition, which means a slew of really advanced cpu's from both parties... It's going to be a great next few years in the cpu market...

  38. #38
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Northwest Colorado
    Posts
    4,630
    Yes, I wonder if it's occurred to Intel that if they took those "market development funds" and invested them in R&D instead, then maybe they wouldn't have to pay people not to use their competitor?

  39. #39
    Too much stuff going on in the world, why cant intel, and amd get togather share secrets, and make super computers LOL! This would be interesting.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •