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  1. #1

    U.S. grapples with intense Chinese spying

    U.S. grapples with intense Chinese spying

    "China's extensive spy network in the United States is causing concern in intelligence circles, as Beijing is rapidly gaining advanced weapons systems."


    Oh, well. In the long run it won't matter anyway...war settles all matters.

  2. #2
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    Re: U.S. grapples with intense Chinese spying

    Originally posted by tekky60
    U.S. grapples with intense Chinese spying

    "China's extensive spy network in the United States is causing concern in intelligence circles, as Beijing is rapidly gaining advanced weapons systems."


    Oh, well. In the long run it won't matter anyway...war settles all matters.
    If war settles all matters than why do people going to war? Get your story straight. The complete and utter destruction of humanity will settle all manners. War is just a temporary bandage.
    Patron: I'd like my free lunch please.
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  3. #3

    Re: Re: U.S. grapples with intense Chinese spying

    Originally posted by pixelized
    If war settles all matters than why do people going to war? Get your story straight. The complete and utter destruction of humanity will settle all manners. War is just a temporary bandage.
    I was just being cynical. Get a grip!

    War is not the way to settle things, but we may be headed that way.

  4. #4
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    War doesnt decide whos right, it decides whos left. Cockroaches.

    $10 says, WWIII by 2007...

  5. #5
    Originally posted by MGCJerry
    War doesnt decide whos right, it decides whos left. Cockroaches.

    $10 says, WWIII by 2007...
    How are you going to collect the $10 after the war?

  6. #6
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    I seriously doubt the US would ever go to war with China or China with the US, even with a pretty good reason (and this isn't one).

  7. #7
    The US would unlikely engage in overt war with any nation with a nuclear arsenal, covert ones maybe. But then one could never be sure what these crazy politicians are capable of, if lessons from the first and second world wars are anything to go by, including the episodes of brinkmanship during the cold war days.
    "Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men."

  8. #8
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    The US just needs to severely cut China's trade with the US. That will prevent war from ever beginning, because China will not have gotten strong enough to go back. They're currently on their teenage rebellious year, which unfortunately cannot take on the muscle builder that's already mature (the rest of the world). The US government really needs to do something asap, otherwise i'm actually considering moving somewhere else... Obviously China is not to be trusted with all this extra power, and for the US to keep giving it to them, more and more every day, is just insane. China is like a leech, it's just feeding off the US more and more, but eventually it wont need us because it will have gotten so huge that it will just kill us and run its own show.

  9. #9
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    Uh... what the... ? lol

  10. #10
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    Originally posted by JHosts
    The US just needs to severely cut China's trade with the US. That will prevent war from ever beginning, because China will not have gotten strong enough to go back. They're currently on their teenage rebellious year, which unfortunately cannot take on the muscle builder that's already mature (the rest of the world). The US government really needs to do something asap, otherwise i'm actually considering moving somewhere else... Obviously China is not to be trusted with all this extra power, and for the US to keep giving it to them, more and more every day, is just insane. China is like a leech, it's just feeding off the US more and more, but eventually it wont need us because it will have gotten so huge that it will just kill us and run its own show.
    Apparently you are absolutely devoid of even somewhat of a grasp on politics and economics, because all of what you said is just BS. All this stuff is just emotional blather comprised of your insatiable desire for scapegoating and placing the weight of all of the reasons for the U.S.'s current economic situation upon China and its booming economy. You are inexpressably misinformed. I mean, how does the U.S. give China power? Because it, typical of a capitalist economy, purchases Chinese goods? China and its private sector churn out cheap products faster than the U.S. can say, "gimme." These products may not necessarily be of the highest quality, but the U.S. ravenously consumes them on a daily basis nonetheless.

    When the U.S. can start matching the production of the Chinese factories and labor force, maybe we'll start to see some return to the balance of trade. Then again, maybe not, seeing as how the US dollar is perpetually becoming less powerful and just how fast the Chinese economy is expanding.

    If the U.S. were to just magically "cut trade" with the U.S., you could expect to see a rapid decline into a deep repression or depression. China is what keeps our economy afloat.

  11. #11
    Originally posted by SniperDevil
    If the U.S. were to just magically "cut trade" with the U.S., you could expect to see a rapid decline into a deep repression or depression. China is what keeps our economy afloat.
    That's the reality. It seems to me that many in the US are slow to realise this. China has a similar grip on other nations too.
    "Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men."

  12. #12
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    Originally posted by qoheleth
    That's the reality. It seems to me that many in the US are slow to realise this. China has a similar grip on other nations too.
    Exactly. Many are also slow to realize and acknowledge that only since the mid-19th century has U.S. been a major economic power; China dominated much of the world for two millennia before that.

  13. #13
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    Originally posted by SniperDevil
    Apparently you are absolutely devoid of even somewhat of a grasp on politics and economics, because all of what you said is just BS. All this stuff is just emotional blather comprised of your insatiable desire for scapegoating and placing the weight of all of the reasons for the U.S.'s current economic situation upon China and its booming economy. You are inexpressably misinformed. I mean, how does the U.S. give China power? Because it, typical of a capitalist economy, purchases Chinese goods? China and its private sector churn out cheap products faster than the U.S. can say, "gimme." These products may not necessarily be of the highest quality, but the U.S. ravenously consumes them on a daily basis nonetheless.

    When the U.S. can start matching the production of the Chinese factories and labor force, maybe we'll start to see some return to the balance of trade. Then again, maybe not, seeing as how the US dollar is perpetually becoming less powerful and just how fast the Chinese economy is expanding.

    If the U.S. were to just magically "cut trade" with the U.S., you could expect to see a rapid decline into a deep repression or depression. China is what keeps our economy afloat.
    The U.S. really has never tried to outmatch the production factories in China, but the day the U.S. stops trade w/ China, it would affect China, the U.S. and a lot of other countries. The U.S. doesn't need to match the production, there are other countries we can work with to provide the goods and services, countries that don't practice communism and what not.

  14. #14
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    A lot of people here like to speculate on what effect cutting off trade with China would have but none of you really know.
    You can hypothesize that the US economy would go downhill because everything would be more expensive.

    That is not necessarily true. The US can find many other trading partners who will produce very cheap goods. Even if the price of these things does go up it doesn't mean economic disaster.

    Look at the amount of consumption in the US. Homes with 3 VCRs or DVD players, a couple of computers, way more clothes than they ever wear, two or three TVs. This list goes on and on.

    If you want to counteract the economic hit of higher prices just reduce consumption.

    China will also be able to find more trading partners but none with the voracios appetite of the US.

  15. #15
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    Originally posted by SniperDevil
    You are inexpressably misinformed. I mean, how does the U.S. give China power? Because it, typical of a capitalist economy, purchases Chinese goods? China and its private sector churn out cheap products faster than the U.S. can say, "gimme."
    Not that I agree with what JHosts said, far from it actually, but U.S. exports to China are one way we are supplementing their rapid growth. Our imports from them are on par with Europe and Canada. US exports to China have almost tripled in the last few years, which is a far greater increase than our trade with the rest of the world. I think this is what JHosts might be talking about.

    Originally posted by SniperDevil
    If the U.S. were to just magically "cut trade" with the U.S., you could expect to see a rapid decline into a deep repression or depression. China is what keeps our economy afloat. [/B]
    Agreed, although I'm not sure that China is the absolute reason why the U.S. economy has a heartbeat. But alot of investment in China is made from inside the U.S. We export more to them than most places in the world.

    @JHosts: saying we should cut trade to simply end imports from them and cut their income from us shows a narrow view of the trade picture as a whole. You need to look at it from both sides.

  16. #16
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    Darn that General Tzo and his Kung Pow Chicken! Darn him to Heck for spying on us!

  17. #17
    Jhosts, cutting trade with China means:
    1. Many US business will go out of business, due to lack of cheap labor.
    2. Their economy will suffer, meaning the people will suffer, not the politicians
    3. War becomes much more likely
    4. No happy meals' toys

  18. #18
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    JHosts appearently never passed history... In WW2, the US(amoung other countries) cut off Japan's imports along with covert operations against them. This caused them to attack Pearl Harbour and start a war with the US.
    Dan Sheppard ~ Freelance whatever

  19. #19
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    Yea I agree with most of the concensus, you cannot cut off a major economical force in a "global" economy. Its not easy, or maybe not even probable to shut your doors and close all imports to your country. You would collapse in a matter of years....
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  20. #20
    Originally posted by Sheps
    JHosts appearently never passed history... In WW2, the US(amoung other countries) cut off Japan's imports along with covert operations against them. This caused them to attack Pearl Harbour and start a war with the US.
    Just to be clear.. Surely you are not saying that it was OK for them to attack the US due to cutting of imports, etc..?
    Don't you walk thru my words
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  21. #21
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    Originally posted by TalkMilitary
    Just to be clear.. Surely you are not saying that it was OK for them to attack the US due to cutting of imports, etc..?
    Do you mean "OK" or "justified" or "provoked"? I think given the fact that the US imposed an oil embargo on Japan, whom had absolutely no resources and would be completely crippled in a few months time and after many failed negotiations with the US to lift it, they were provoked to attack the US (between the embargo and all of Japan's US assets being frozen). They knew Japan would attack--of course they would. It wasn't "cutting off imports", it was cutting the life-line of a country. Not buying things from or importing things to China would not be the same as what happened to Japan.

  22. #22
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    I am not really sure of China's intention. I know that a lot of countries would either stay out of the war or side with one or the other.

  23. #23
    Originally posted by Tim_Greer
    Do you mean "OK" or "justified" or "provoked"? I think given the fact that the US imposed an oil embargo on Japan, whom had absolutely no resources and would be completely crippled in a few months time and after many failed negotiations with the US to lift it, they were provoked to attack the US (between the embargo and all of Japan's US assets being frozen). They knew Japan would attack--of course they would. It wasn't "cutting off imports", it was cutting the life-line of a country. Not buying things from or importing things to China would not be the same as what happened to Japan.
    OK, I just wanted to be sure. because usually, the left wing cries about "you should use Diplomatic and/or econnomic means" to solve the problem. By what you say.. that does not work either. So what is the solution? WAIT!!! I know... this generation thinks aggressors should be "coddled". I get it! We should have held their hand... supplied them... and that means supplying their allies too. And if they get upset, hug them, and give them MORE time.... to carry out the horrible acts. I get it.

    Maybe next election we will get a Democrat for a President. I look forward to that. I cannot wait to see all of the kids that suddenly discovered politics come out and defend their guy... no matter what he does, no matter what lies they tell, etc... Oh, that would be fun.
    Don't you walk thru my words
    You got to show some respect
    Don't you walk thru my words
    'Cause you ain't heard me out yet

  24. #24
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    I'm just not sure how this discussion and thread ever ended up talking about a potential war anyway. I'm not sure where that came from, there's really nothing pointing to that possibility.

  25. #25
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    Originally posted by TalkMilitary
    OK, I just wanted to be sure. because usually, the left wing cries about "you should use Diplomatic and/or econnomic means" to solve the problem. By what you say.. that does not work either. So what is the solution? WAIT!!! I know... this generation thinks aggressors should be "coddled". I get it! We should have held their hand... supplied them... and that means supplying their allies too. And if they get upset, hug them, and give them MORE time.... to carry out the horrible acts. I get it.

    Maybe next election we will get a Democrat for a President. I look forward to that. I cannot wait to see all of the kids that suddenly discovered politics come out and defend their guy... no matter what he does, no matter what lies they tell, etc... Oh, that would be fun. :D
    Sometimes it's a diplomatic solution, and sometimes not and it takes an act of war. You can't pussy-foot around sometimes. Regardless of the reasons, people will disagree or agree, not everyone will agree, especially with something as serious as a war. That's how the world works, though. It's too bad, but it's reality. I figure there's nothing I can do about it and I certainly don't have the means, power or charisma to influence anyone, so I'm just along for the ride and say my opinions from somewhere in the back corner behind all those other people no one listens to.

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