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  1. #1

    are Florida datacenters BAD?

    Someone told me they are not reliable because of huracanes, tornados, etc. anyone have any idea?

  2. #2
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    earthdance,

    I personally disagree - as long as they are properly setup there should be no issue with hurricanes/tornados, etc.

    Now that said there is obviously more risk but as long as the company behind the DC manages it all properly and prepares there should be no issue.

  3. #3
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    Florida datacenters are not bad because of natural disasters like that, these days they can hold their own against things like that. However, what is bad about them is that the large majority of the world's spam comes from florida. When florida had all the hurricanes hit, the world's spam levels dropped by nearly 50%...

  4. #4
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    Florida datacenters have more inherent risks due to the Hurricanes but as long as the building is built correctly and has the proper redundant and backup systems in it place they can be as reliable as anyone else.

  5. #5
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    Exactly, NAP of the Americas is a prime example. They are located in a multi-story building with exemplary natural disaster protection, and they're a major network access point and undersea fiber landing point.

  6. #6
    Originally posted by FlashwireGroup
    Exactly, NAP of the Americas is a prime example. They are located in a multi-story building with exemplary natural disaster protection, and they're a major network access point and undersea fiber landing point.
    Are they protected against 747/757s flying into thier building as well?

  7. #7
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    Originally posted by BSD2
    Are they protected against 747/757s flying into thier building as well?
    I'll assume that you're serious about that and it isn't a sick joke.

    NOTA is designed amazingly well:
    http://www.napoftheamericas.net/faq.cfm#3D
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  8. #8
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    I had hardware in both orlando and tampa last year during all of the hurricane's. our orlando hardware had no issues, sagonet had a tiny bit due to a generator bending over (i think something fell on it?). Besides this tiny fall back, they did very well with all of the issues.

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  9. #9
    Originally posted by NACmwinship
    I'll assume that you're serious about that and it isn't a sick joke.

    NOTA is designed amazingly well:
    http://www.napoftheamericas.net/faq.cfm#3D
    I was just interested since these datacentres are designed to withstand all these natural disasters, whether, int he current day and age, situation they could withstand non natural disasters.

  10. #10
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    I really don't think you can judge all the datacentres in a particular geographic region equally -- I'm sure some datacentres are able to withstand more problems than others.

    Further, inclement weather is not unique to Florida. Although Florida is by far the largest target when one takes into account coastline on a state-by-state basis, there are a number of other states that are prone to hurricane landfalls.

    Further, if you are concerned about weather events, consider tornado alley, which, for example, Dallas is located within. Further, Dallas has been gifted with the title of hail capital of the world - so they have their fair share of bad weather.

    I would imagine in places where winter is a real issue (can you tell I grew up in Dallas? :-D ), preperations for winter issues are important... And earthquakes for earthquake-prone areas...

    The point is that you must research each datacenter on its own merits.

    Originally posted by BSD2
    I was just interested since these datacentres are designed to withstand all these natural disasters, whether, int he current day and age, situation they could withstand non natural disasters.
    The problem I have with this is that you are introducing an issue that would be of concern no matter where the datacentre, rather than discussing something that would specifically affect Florida datacentres, which is what the topic was about.

    Except that, as I outlined above, I disagree with even the concern about Florida datacentres specifically...

    I would also like to point out, thinking of hurricanes again -- hurricanes, although very large weather events, still only strongly effect a relatively and surprisingly small area (as compared to their size).

    Here in Panama City, where I have lived since February 2004, we've been hit or close to the following storms:

    Tropical Storm Bonnie - passed west-to-east just off the coast - but we saw not a single drop of rain, nor anything beyond 5-10 knot winds, if that.

    Hurricane Frances - came within 200 miles, after it had crossed the Florida peninsula. Of course, we were on the lesser western side anyway, but we saw only a single short shower, and again no winds.

    Hurricane Ivan - Ah, that was fun. We had 40-50 knot winds, but the real fun was the tornadoes. We had three tornadoes in the metro area, which isn't that large. Had, IIRC, two deaths or so, and a couple of building destroyed, but not too bad, all things considered.

    Tropical Storm Arlene - We had 30-35 knot winds, which were rather brisk for delivering flowers (I helped my wife - we almost called the deliveries off, but it was just barely tolerable. Flowers are fragile...) in the small vehicle we were having to use... But once we were done and drove home in our car, we barely noticed the wind... (Well, it had calmed down a little by then...)

    In this city, the last major event before Ivan was Hurricane Opal in 1995 - it still wasn't a direct hit, but it was significant to be remembered, and to have caused some damage and flooding.

    In my amateur research, it seems like many places on the coast have a memorable storm hit close enough to cause concern and/or at least some minor damage about once every ten years...

    So sure, it's something datacentres should plan for, but I really think there's been a whole lot of media hype on the hurricane issue - sure, it was a busy season last season, and this one should be at least as busy (although no telling how many storms will hit land, much less Florida), but there are similar issues in many places to plan for.

  11. #11
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    Are they protected against 747/757s flying into thier building as well?
    Nap of the Americas is nowhere near the flight path, unlike many San Jose data centers.

  12. #12
    Originally posted by Dennis Nugent
    Nap of the Americas is nowhere near the flight path, unlike many San Jose data centers.
    and it's a five story building so the plane would have to be going directly at it for it to get hit.
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  13. #13
    Remember that last hurricane season was the worst for florida, Doesnt mean this year is going to be the same. The last similar hurricane season for florida was, IIRC, was sometime around the 60's . I have lived in Florida for 24 years now, and I can tell you last season was not usual for this area, I would be surprised if florida gets hit with another 4 this year =/ Even tho last year was bad, it doesnt mean everywhere in florida is a hazzard for the rest of time. Back in 89 Hurricane Hugo was the most intense hurricane to strike Georgia and the Carolinas in the last 100 years. That doesnt mean Datacenters in those areas are considered hurricane hazzards.

  14. #14
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    Originally posted by AlxCds
    and it's a five story building so the plane would have to be going directly at it for it to get hit.
    I think that would be pretty much true of any aircraft/building scenario.

    But I think discussing aircraft-into-building scenarios is rather in poor taste.

  15. #15
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    If the price is right, then why not Florida? But if you can go elsewhere for a similar price...
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  16. #16
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    Re: are Florida datacenters BAD?

    Originally posted by earthdance
    Someone told me they are not reliable because of huracanes, tornados, etc. anyone have any idea?
    I live in Florida...

    Florida DC's are not bad b/c they prepare for those natural disasters.. If a major hurricane hits a location where there is a DC.. Chances are if the power is out.. Your machines are still online and NEVER even effected by the hurricane or power outage.. Most Datacenteres have multiple Generators and UPS systems.. I visited one of the nicest DC's in florida, Sagonet. They had 2 Diesel generators almost taller then their roof, 5 rows of HUGE UPS systems, and Other means of Power..

    As long as the DC is prepared for natural disasters.. then you should be fine..

    Just my .02

  17. #17
    Jhosts:

    Please present a link/article to backup your point about Florida and Spam...


    ...However, what is bad about them is that the large majority of the world's spam comes from florida. When florida had all the hurricanes hit, the world's spam levels dropped by nearly 50%...
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  18. #18
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    Originally posted by JHosts
    Florida datacenters are not bad because of natural disasters like that, these days they can hold their own against things like that. However, what is bad about them is that the large majority of the world's spam comes from florida. When florida had all the hurricanes hit, the world's spam levels dropped by nearly 50%...
    I agree with platinumn23. You have made a pretty strong accusation about Florida data centers. Can you please provide a reference that shows that "the large majority" of the worlds spam comes from Florida data centers?

    There are some major international telecommunication centers located in Florida. That could be a source of spam, but that isn't the same as saying Florida data centers are the source.

    Note: This only effects me because I feel the statement was incorrect - I am not hosted in a Florida data center.

  19. #19
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    Originally posted by Isaac.Eiland-Hall
    I think that would be pretty much true of any aircraft/building scenario.

    But I think discussing aircraft-into-building scenarios is rather in poor taste.
    I highly doubt that any of these Florida data centers would be targets. As for random buildings to attack, they're not tall enough to be attractive targets.

    If you're that paranoid about it, you should be hosting in a secure, underground data center, and not asking on WHT for advice.
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  20. #20
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    To rid yourself of disaster zones would be tough.... whether it be earthquakes, floods, mud slides, tornadoes, hurricanes, lightning etc..... add to that unnatural DC disasters such as power outs, faulty equipment, fires, theft, etc.... The key is...finding a data center that is prepared to handle the disaster to the best of their ability and that takes the appropriate measures to prevent any disasters that can be prevented.

    I think Florida gets noticed more because we get to think about and talk about our hurricanes for a great deal of time. A week before they hit and at least a week after they hit we get to be in the news. When an earthquake hits California we don't hear about it until after the fact... With such a long press time available for hurricanes it's easy for the masses to focus on them. However, I'd rather be in a data center that has a much better shot at seeing what's coming than one that hasn't a clue about it until after it hits

    There certainly are some locations that are generally safer from natural disasters than others.... such as Arizona...but then the power bills have to be outrageous to keep a place like that cool and it still doesn't stop them from being negatively affected by any number of potential problems.

    Someone told me they are not reliable because of huracanes, tornados, etc. anyone have any idea?
    "They" is an awfully big word. I know of SEVERAL "theys" that did just fine through all of the 2004 hurricanes. I also know of several that didn't fair so well. It wasn't the hurricanes (for most that failed) that caused the failure. It was the lack of preparation and disaster planning that caused them to fail.

    We did fine.... the power was out for a few days to our building but our generator was in full operational condition and our hurricane shutters were locked up tight...therefore none of our equipment or clients would have even known there was a problem if it weren't for the news (or us communicating with them) to let them know. Many did as well as we did...and that was with three hurricanes blowing over our heads one right after the other.

    Some folks had problems they couldn't control... this is the way mother nature works and a true risk we all take for choosing to live on earth. Next time we may get hit with something worse.... or we may be fine but a "DC in a safer location" may find themselves in a worse position. It's hard to say. However, if I were looking for a good DC to place my sight...I'd be looking at the people and operations and history/performance of the DC more than it's location.

    However, what is bad about them is that the large majority of the world's spam comes from florida. When florida had all the hurricanes hit, the world's spam levels dropped by nearly 50%
    Though it is true that FL is full of spam houses.... this again isn't true for everyone in Florida. I can't control what the DC down the road from us does...but I certainly work hard to ensure that junk doesn't leave our own DC.....
    Can you please provide a reference that shows that "the large majority" of the worlds spam comes from Florida data centers?
    http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/05/08/1723237
    "The South Florida Sun-Sentinel published this weekend a story about how South Florida is home to more spammers than any other place in the world according to Spamhaus. The reason for that seems to be Florida's long history and friendliness with dirty business from real estate speculation to the penny stock scammers. Among the interesting tidbits is anecdotal evidence that the amount of spam worldwide fell for a while after last year's hurricanes in Florida."

    And with that said.....

    I'll go back to monitoring and finalizing preparations for "Dennis" our latest hurricane threat that just might help decrease spam again this weekend
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  21. #21
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    It's pretty common knowledge among those involved in fighting spam that Florida is a serious haven for spammers. I think the project leader of SpamHaus (can't remember his name offhand) declared Florida "the spam capital of the world." Here's a link to an AP article:

    http://www.officer.com/article/artic...ion=9&id=24066

    To quote the article:

    Why South Florida? Spammers and anti-spam groups cite a combination of reasons. They include the warm weather and laid-back lifestyle, lenient bankruptcy laws, proximity to Internet data centers, a history of telemarketing and e-mail marketing, and the state's long-standing image as a good place to do dirty business.

    South Florida is so notorious that some experts attributed a short-term decline in global spam after last year's hurricanes to the assumption that the storms disrupted spammers' operations.
    EDIT: Sorry Deb, your post wasn't active when I started writing mine. They both essentially say the same thing.

  22. #22

    Re: are Florida datacenters BAD?

    Originally posted by earthdance
    Someone told me they are not reliable because of huracanes, tornados, etc. anyone have any idea?

    Are California datacenters BAD?

    Someone told me they are not reliable because of earthquakes, mudslides, etc. anyone have any idea?


    Are Minnesota datacenters BAD?

    Someone told me they are not reliable because of blizzards, ice storms, etc. anyone have any idea?


    Are Texas datacenters BAD?

    Someone told me they are not reliable because of hurricanes, flooding, etc. anyone have any idea?


    This could go on all night. You need to weigh where the datacenter is with the likelihood that one of these events is actually going to occur and with the things that are known about the datacenter, like construction and preparation. A lot of Florida based datacenters had no effects at all from all the hurricanes and tropical storms that blew through in 2004. Some did. It is the same way for any datacenter anywhere in the event of a disaster, natural or otherwise.

  23. #23
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    My server is currently Located in flordia. I have had no issues whatsoever.

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