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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    391

    Not 100% uptime as promised, can I refund?

    Hi,

    If I have had one or several dedicated servers with a host, which promised 100% network uptime. Then goes down 15 minutes, which were because of someone launching an attack against them. Then they didnt keep their promise to me as a customer, - 100% uptime. Could I request a refund for this? I have had the server for 9 out of 12 months though, I really dont like them and mostly just needs a reason for a refund so I can switch host. Anyhow if this'll work or not, I just wondered if I possible could succeed when requesting a refund? I payed with Visa, 9 months ago. In the contract it promises no downtime except whats caused by myself. I payed annualy. Thanks.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Flint, Michigan
    Posts
    5,765
    Link to the host's page and/or SLA?

    Do you expect a refund for all 9 months out of this? I really hope not.
    Mike from Zoodia.com
    Professional web design and development services.
    In need of a fresh hosting design? See what premade designs we have in stock!
    Web design tips, tricks, and more at MichaelPruitt.com

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    391
    CalPOP.com
    http://www.calpop.com/dedicatedfeatures.html

    Not sure how much of a refund I can expect, if I can expect any at all. On the above page it says "100% Network Uptime", which I payed for and hasn't recieved. Well, in general I am very happy with them. Its just that alot of the users of the servers are complaining about lag some times of the day, and I get sometimes 300+ ping on them from Europe. Not sure if its a valid reason to request a refund anyways.. just wondering what my opportunities would be if I were to do such a thing and how I should do it. Like.. if I go to some shop and purcase a computer with a 3ghz processor, 1gb ram. I get home to see some of it are missing, or I payed for more than I reiceved.. shouldnt I be able to do a refund without much hassle from their side anyways? Just wondering what I could/should do, thx for all possible replies ppl =P

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Flint, Michigan
    Posts
    5,765
    From: https://www.calpop.com/terms.htm

    c) Availability of Internet access to CALPOP is not entirely under the control of CALPOP but internet access is guaranteed by CALPOP to be at 100% uptime. Client shall be entitled to a prorated refund for any downtime should any take place.


    i. Client can cancel this agreement anytime. No refunds of any kind are due in the event of cancellation unless Client has prepaid 1 YEAR and terminates early in which case Client shall be entitled to a refund of the difference between the prepaid amount and the amount the Client would have paid had he signed up for the month-to-month rate and paid set-up fees.

    This means you'll probably get screwed with whatever they want to give you refund wise for your downtime.

    Do a search on calpop and you'll see some nasty stories, i wouldn't get my hopes up.
    Mike from Zoodia.com
    Professional web design and development services.
    In need of a fresh hosting design? See what premade designs we have in stock!
    Web design tips, tricks, and more at MichaelPruitt.com

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    391
    Okay, thx for informative reply

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Chicago, Illinois
    Posts
    882
    If you are in Europe, generally it is a bad idea to get a server on the west coast if ping times are important to you. You'd be much better off getting an east coast server.
    Neosurge Web Services since 2002
    Neosurge VPS Hosting

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    391
    Although its this tiny case, I find all the "horror stories" about CalPOP weird.. atleast some of them. Search result turned out to be many pages long with negative stories.
    I have been hosted with them for roughly 9 months, I have probably requested support over 100 times.

    Other than this 1 time short downtime, I have never experienced any other downtime.

    Not gunna add a full review just a lil story until now;
    From the start (for those interested):
    When I first ordered my server, I ordered it with a 1 year cPanel/WHM license. I got my server 4 days after the order was placed. After about 1 month with cPanel, someone I hosted had hosted a phising site on the server, where they tricked people for cc/pp accounts. My server was unplugged. The reply I got 4 days later was "your server has appearently been hack", short and neat heh. I payed 75$ to get it plugged in back and reinstall the OS. They reccomended me CentOS which I thought was a good idea, and probably is, I'm just not familiar with *nix. As they couldnt help me setup cPanel now I had to do it by myself, which was first time I was working with a shell account other than setting up UnrealIRCD. Although, this whent pretty smooth there were some happenings and errors that made me change my mind, as I were stuck somewhere middle in the setup of cPanel, and the main thing.. After I reinstalled the OS now to CentOS, I needed the cPanel license. Which I had to email this one guy about (Song Wong) which took several days for a reply, where they only asked me to fax front/back of card, passport etc to have this license reenabled (wtf? I already did that when I had it ordered) So I skipped that, had other thoughts in my mind.. so I requested another reinstall of the OS which I got for free as of these incidents (normally 75$). Now I were on Win2k. But still I dont know why, and dont know if I can force them to give it to me.. when I first ordered the server with RedHat as it was at the start when I had cPanel, I had 30+ IP's available. Now when I got my Windows, I got only 1 IP. Dont know if I can have any money out of this. And the cPanel license has been activated for now 8 months, only I havent used it for that as its on Win, this too I dont know if I can request to disable and have the money.
    After some problems with 1 game requiring it I got Win2k3 on the server. Although.. I have seen heaps of people complaining about bad support. I can partly agree on that. Their ticket/mail support sux bigtime. Although I usually recieve email back within a couple hours. But the thing that kept me liking their customer support was their 24/7 phone support. As I live in Europe its mostly nighttime in the US when I call them, but they ALWAYS answered the phone within a few seconds in the couple 100 times I have called them. Free reboots whent over a few minutes, although some seemed like they didnt know what they were talking about and just wanted me to chill with asking questions and just sayd "yea yea, we'll fix it blablabla" and nothing happened, until my 4th call or so, which has happened a few times. I always get the good support when this ppl (Leon and Lynn) are available, they always get the support done really quick. I pinged their page but it seems way different ping, appears to be located somewhere in Asia. I scanned their IP range and found 200+ Gig XxX in all categories in one open serv free for everyone to dl lol, in their range for that its 80% gay and Asian porn, dunno why such large dedicated hosts choose to host their page elsewhere than their own place.. maybe if its down? The people there also seems kind.. I think, other than that CalPOP is great. Very stable and good servers. They have helped me a bunch of times when I have installed my software firewall, to then notice I am blocked out and need them to physically access it and unblock me. When they fixed it I managed to block myself again, not only once hehe.. so I'm probably one of the more support demanding customers hehe.. Their ping to Europe where I am is stable 180-240 but fridays and such it may go to 300+. I really dont know why theres so many negative replies, I only experienced good stuff with them mostly.. One time my server was constantly crashing and they sayd it got blue screen and needed change of memory, this whent and got completed in 1 hour, which I think is pretty good.. Ok, maybe thinking I would get a full refund for the whole time would be to expect a little too much hehe.. just wondering what I could do, and what my rights are etc hehe. But in general, I think they are a nice provider, although some US hosts give me way better ping. CalPOP good. But is it at all worth going ahead and ask for a refund because of the short downtime? What should I be able to expect from them in such a manner? Thx for reading if you read all.. just a tiny prereview in my already started thread. Thx for all possible repliers

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    391
    Originally posted by Neosurge
    If you are in Europe, generally it is a bad idea to get a server on the west coast if ping times are important to you. You'd be much better off getting an east coast server.
    Yea but most of the users who use the server are from around that area. So I thought it'd b a good idea to have it there (? heh).

    I use it purely to host gameservers now.
    ThePlanet appears to give me better ping though, keeping @ around 120 ms.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Flint, Michigan
    Posts
    5,765
    If I only had 15 minutes of downtime in 9 months, I would overlook it completely.
    Mike from Zoodia.com
    Professional web design and development services.
    In need of a fresh hosting design? See what premade designs we have in stock!
    Web design tips, tricks, and more at MichaelPruitt.com

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    391
    Okey, I will then.
    Thanks for feedback :]

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    49
    Calpop doesn't mention this specifically in their SLA agreement, but for future reference when it comes to downtime due to a DOS attack, you should know that few, if any DSP's will give a credit for a DOS attack. Here's why...[BR][BR]

    1.) DOS attacks don't bring down networks as large as an entire peering center. they are usually directed at a single IP or a range of IP's. That is where they are most effective; bringing down a specific site or host. Given this fact, it is generally aceepted in the NOC that you either pissed some script kiddie off so they attacked you, or you were the target some random event or hack attempt. Either way, it is not he DSP's fault
    [BR][BR]

    2.) An OC192 is a massive amount of bandwidth. 9.952 Gbps to be exact. That's equivalent to about 1,850 T1 lines. I have personally seen major DDOS attacks reach 1.2 Gigs at it's peak, but that was easily the largest, was concentrated on a sinlge IP, and took several hours to ramp up. So basically, although it's not IMPOSSIBLE, it would be pushing Ludacris speed, approaching impossible, to be able to bring down that network. ie. not your provider's fault either.
    [BR][BR]

    While I definately understand wanting the best for your money, having worked in the NOC of a major provider that is often discussed on this board, I also know the little known technical loopholes they use to hold on to SLA credits. Sorry it's that way. but it just is.

    If 15 mins. of downtime is really that much trouble for you, I would recommmend finding a provider that offers DOS mitigation services. it would not 100% guarrantee that a targeted attack will not bring you down, but6 it's some extra insurance. I would name some specific companies, but I am biased and 5 sec. on google will turn up more than enough info. Good Luck. I hope that brings things into pespective.
    "Every day I get up and look through the Forbes list of the richest people in America. If I'm not there, I go to work." (Robert Orben)

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    5,084
    This is a sad day indeed. In 9 months you have 15 minutes downtime because of a DDOS attack and you want to do a chargeback? Dude you should be flogged publicly.

    DDOS are a fact of life and actually NO one can prevent a large enough DDOS attack all you can do is mitigate it. Your providers network was up just unreachable so since no one else will say it:

    Behave yourself.

    This is so far from a chargeback situation I am considering driving over to you and either gettting you a coffee or a beer and chilling you out a bit.
    André Allen | E: aallen(a)linovus.ca
    Linovus Holdings Inc
    Shared Hosting, Reseller Hosting, VPS, Dedicated Servers & Public Cloud | USA, Canada & UK - 24x7x365 Support

  13. #13
    Why don't you go ahead and post your billing info here too, so all the hosts will know to avoid bad customers like you.

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