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  1. #1

    How much bandwidth would I need?

    Got about 15 servers at the moment, pumping out 1600 gigs per month and 200 gigs coming in.

    Looking to co-lo elsewhere but not sure what bandwidth to the internet I would require, 10mbit, 100mbit ?

    As I need this info as part of my quotation requests any advice would be appreciated.

    Thx!

  2. #2
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    with 10mbit sustained useage you can get around 3200gb of transfer.
    Neosurge Web Services since 2002
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  3. #3
    How did you come to that conlusion?

    So are you saying that a 10mbs would be a waste of money for me.

    Our usage being half that should 5mbps be sufficient?

    It's more the simultaneous transfer capabilities of these machines that I'm after not so much the amount of date.

    I want to avoid queuing of my data on the outgoing router.

  4. #4
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    Basicly,

    10 Mb/s * 60 seconds * 60 minutes * 24 hours * 30 days / 8 bytes / 1024 MB = 3164.0625 GB

    That would be 10 Mb/s sustained usage, not taking into account for TCP Overhead.. Personally, in your situation, I would get a 5 Mb/s commit on a 10 Mb/s port billed by 95th percentile so you could burst to 10 Mb/s if needed although (assuming your usage is steady) you only generally use 5 Mb/s. Does that make sense?
    James Lumby

  5. #5
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    Originally posted by lumbyjj
    Basicly,

    10 Mb/s * 60 seconds * 60 minutes * 24 hours * 30 days / 8 bytes / 1024 MB = 3164.0625 GB

    That would be 10 Mb/s sustained usage, not taking into account for TCP Overhead.. Personally, in your situation, I would get a 5 Mb/s commit on a 10 Mb/s port billed by 95th percentile so you could burst to 10 Mb/s if needed although (assuming your usage is steady) you only generally use 5 Mb/s. Does that make sense?
    Oi vey - poster is looking for a real world "how much bandwidth do I need", not some theoretical crap. I

    Assuming that your 1600GB is for all 15 servers, and you have typical hosting traffic, you will utilize about 8-10Mb/sec on 95th percentile. I would recommend a 10Mb/sec commit on a 100Mb/sec port, so you have room for growth and burst.
    Jay Sudowski // Handy Networks LLC // Co-Founder & CTO
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  6. #6
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    Originally posted by Jay Suds
    Oi vey - poster is looking for a real world "how much bandwidth do I need", not some theoretical crap. I

    Assuming that your 1600GB is for all 15 servers, and you have typical hosting traffic, you will utilize about 8-10Mb/sec on 95th percentile. I would recommend a 10Mb/sec commit on a 100Mb/sec port, so you have room for growth and burst.

    What are you basing that off of?? The 8-10 Mb/s part of course. I mean, I'm sure you know something about his traffic that I don't? I would say 5 because it's easier to up your commit if neccessary than to decrease it as a general rule....
    James Lumby

  7. #7
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    Average hosting traffic will utilize 180GB - 200GB per Mb/sec @ 95th percentile. You can do the math from there. We have some customers that get as low as 140GB per Mb/sec. In fact, I would not be surprised if his needs were as high as 12-13Mb/sec - but I would be downright floored if he managed to put 1600GB into 5Mb/sec on 95th percentile.
    Jay Sudowski // Handy Networks LLC // Co-Founder & CTO
    AS30475 - Level(3), HE, Telia, XO and Cogent. Noction optimized network.
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  8. #8
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    It really depends on his traffic pattern, also you may have missed in my posted "(assuming your usage is steady)." Either way, I would still go for a 5 Mb/s commit and then upgrade from there after a few days to a week so he would have a better idea of what he actually uses.
    James Lumby

  9. #9
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    No, I didn't miss your post. You seemed to miss mine: "not some theoretical crap". Real world, there's no way in hell he's fitting 1600GB into 5Mb/sec, just not gonna happen.
    Jay Sudowski // Handy Networks LLC // Co-Founder & CTO
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  10. #10
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    No, I didn't miss yours, I also said I wasn't taking into account TCP overhead, although I have people using over 90+ Mb/s for the majority of the day, (my customers seem to either do a whole lot or very little, not many in betweens) either way, I was explaining how the previous poster came to that number. Also, my larger customers are certainly getting close.. Of course they are using alot more than that.. Also, since you really want to get down to *non theoretical* then figure in about 7-8% TCP overhead (this can vary quite a bit depending on traffic) so the math would look like this:

    1 Mb/s * 60 seconds * 60 minutes * 24 hours * 30 days / 8 bytes / 1024 MB = 316.40625 GB - (.08 * 316.40625) = 291.09375 GB

    That being said, I do have customers around the 300 and just over.. TCP overhead differs depending on traffic.


    Edited to add:

    I still stand by my recommendation as to get a low commit to see where you are at, then adjust from there..
    James Lumby

  11. #11
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    Based of that logic, 5 Mb/s would work out as the following:

    5 * 60 * 60 * 24 * 30 / 8 / 1024 = 1582.03125 - (.08 * 1582.03125) = 1455.46875 GB

    As to if he can fit 1600 GB through a 5 Mb/s pipe? No, did I suggest that? No, I suggested getting a 5 Mb/s COMMIT on a 10 Mb/s pipe, if not 100, but to find out what you needed first before going into a higher commit than you possibly do. As I've said before and I'll say again, it is MUCH easier to increase your commit than to decrease it. I fail to see where that is unwise. It's quite possible that it is, I'm not a very smart man...

    James
    James Lumby

  12. #12
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    Originally posted by lumbyjj
    Basicly,

    10 Mb/s * 60 seconds * 60 minutes * 24 hours * 30 days / 8 bytes / 1024 MB = 3164.0625 GB

    That would be 10 Mb/s sustained usage, not taking into account for TCP Overhead.. Personally, in your situation, I would get a 5 Mb/s commit on a 10 Mb/s port billed by 95th percentile so you could burst to 10 Mb/s if needed although (assuming your usage is steady) you only generally use 5 Mb/s. Does that make sense?
    THIS IS ****NOT**** correct.

    If he was billed on average throughput, then yes, he would get ~3200GB each way on a 10mbps billing.

    However the assumed billing method is 95th percentile, in which case your equation above is COMPLETELY, TOTALLY, ABSOLUTELY U S E L E S S.

    TCP overheads are only one part of the problem. As Jay has correctly pointed out, for every 1mbps of 95th percentile usage, the observed transfer could fall anywhere from 140GB to 300GB. There is absolutely no way for you to predict what this will be. In our experience, much like Jay's, our average customer doesn't crack 200GB/1mbps(95th percentile). This is 1 way of course... a setup with a decent inbound/outbound ratio would realize a better result.

    Please keep in mind that TCP overheads are the 'sole' factor only when you have a fully saturated, capped connection. If you're on a burstable pipe, as most of us are, then it is significantly more difficult to generate a function that accurately describes traffic utilization patterns from one customer to the next.

    An excellent primer has been posted by Jeff here:
    http://inconcepts.biz/cr/95th.html

    Highly recommended.

    All that being said, your final recommendation is a good one, I would commit to 5mbps and go from there. I suspect the OP will wind up in the 8-10 mbps range. At the point they reach a total combined transfer of 2000GB or so, he can start looking at raising the commit to 10mbps if there's sufficient pricing incentive to do so.

    Brandon

  13. #13
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    I didn't say he was guaranteed to get that much. Just saying if he actually uses that much, that is what he is likely to get, depending on his traffic patterns, etc.
    James Lumby

  14. #14
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    Hmm interesting exchange. Let's see. lumbyjj gives the theoretical calculation then everyone says hes dead wrong and offers some other more accurate calculation based really on nothing. You don't know the traffic patterns, you don't know the type of traffic, really with nothign to go on you have to take educated guesses based on the only thing left, theory and a raw 1600/200 statement.

    I think you guys are being a bit harsh.
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  15. #15
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    Jay and Brandon are right here. In the real world, you're not going to squeeze 1600GB out of 5Mbps for the average traffic pattern. 7 or 8Mbps would probably be more appropriate.

    We don't need to know his traffic pattern to say 5Mbps is likely not enough.
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