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  1. #1

    Thats Right Bush, Iran DOES have Elections.

    For those who have Never been to iran, probably think its a country with men walking the streets with guns, beating women, terrorising, Well thats Wrong all badly shown by the press. Its EXTREMELY intresting, watching the BBC, CNN etc, i hear EVERY news, yet a country so sensative (at this time) only got under 30 seconds on BBC and i am still to get anything about it on CNN!

    What the the government scared of us to know, Iran really isn't as bad as they make it to be! well, i have been to Iran, its most certainly NOT how thy try and make it out to be, Women DON'T have to fully cover themselfs, been there SEEN it with my own EYES!

    Iranians are like normal people, their teenagers listen to Rock, rap, etc. They do try drugs, i even been offered alcohol there!

    The regime MAY be abit too harsh politically taking a few political prisoners, Yet i see nothing wrong with what they have done to criminals. When i was there i heard a CHILD rapist was lashed then HUNG, after raping many kids. I personally see nothing wrong with it, yet i have seen alot of talks abut it in forums saying "this is just iran terrorising its people!"

    No country is perfect, its VERY easy to see the bad sides of things, but remmeber it takes a bigger guy to admin the good sides and i still dont see ANY western countries do so.

    Iranians are proud of Throwing the "shah" (old Friendly king towards the west! [ Read the book on iranian revolution, was intresting read ( The Mossadegh Era: Roots of the Iranian Revolution)]) out, they are proud of their history, and what i saw today on their English TV channel was alot of proud people waiting to vote.

    The voting process IS DEMOCRATIC, in the way that they have a FULL FREE CHOICE on who they elect, though it gets more complext to become a candidate, its just not as easy as USA where film stars get to win presidency and become mayors!

    I was just pretty angry at what i saw and though i would just let people know about it
    Last edited by Directory; 06-17-2005 at 06:53 PM.

  2. #2
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    I saw a full feature on the Iran elections on CNN today actually.

    Many don't argue that there are democratic elections in Iran they argue that the elected position is just a figure head and that the religious sect really runs the country.

    Iran is a very secular place though.
    They also have a very young population who are eager to assimilate many Western ways into their culture.

  3. #3
    I saw a full feature on the Iran elections on CNN today actually.
    Must have missed it!

    The winner of the Iranian elections will have considerable power over the country, yet the grand ayatolah has a veto in it if it is in conjunction with religion (to my knowledge!)

    As far as i understand there are to main parties, Right wing, very very strickt. Left Wing, Much easier going reformists (whom i think will win!)

    Though the way their system works is that the reformists are restricted somewhat to reform the country in SOME ways that is "unislamic!"

    I can understand that, if we actually consider ALL the people that died during the infamoud Iranian Revolution, Then right after it the Iran Iraq war, i can fully understand why the government is not about to just hand over full power to the reformists. But As you said, about 50% of the population are young people and WITH TIME there will be abit more pressure (internal) (external pressures does nothing but to anger!) and i think things WILL change for the better

    Its just that its precieved as such an EVIL country (in uk anyways!) but in fact, i can say i been there, i was open minded, and its NOTHING as how they describe it.

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    Please, don't look backwards through the same lens to get your perception of how Americans think. Many of us are actually smarter than the media, which appeals to the least common denominator of the population in the name of ratings or circulation. This is inevitable, unfortunately, with a free press in any democratic nation.

    How free is Iran's media to cover the issues the people are voting on, or pry into the candidates' lives? Last I heard, the hardliners who can't be voted out of office still had control over that. In the United States, only Supreme Court justices can't be voted out of office, and they certainly don't have power over the media's portrayal of Presidential candidates. Or is that just media distortion?

    I disagree with the U.S. meddling in Iranian affairs. In fact, if I had my way, Iran would be our ally sooner than Saudi Arabia. Iran is a Persian society, not Arabian, thus has its roots in the free enterprise and laissιz-faire capitalism of the bazaar. Iran has lots in common with any democratic capitalist country.

    There are two growing forces which the hardliners in Iran can't control, which will bring about a truly free country by themselves without any interference from abroad. First, the mini satellite dish. Though illegal, plenty of Iranian households have them. There's really nothing that can be done about their proliferation, and exposure of Iranians to not only CNN, but Al-Jazeira as well.

    Second, the demographics of the population. When the Ayatollah took over after the Shah's ouster, one of his policies was quite biblical -- "go forth and multiply". This was done, and the majority of the Iranian population (IIRC, didn't check the CIA World Fact Book) is now under the age of 30. The older hardliners are simply outnumbered by those who hold to more progressive ideals, and change will continue in Iran at its own pace as the next generation takes over.
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    Originally posted by BigBison
    Please, don't look backwards through the same lens to get your perception of how Americans think. Many of us are actually smarter than the media, which appeals to the least common denominator of the population in the name of ratings or circulation.

    Well said.
    But in a sense perception is reality. You would be suprised how many people in America and in Canada for that matter who base their opinions of other countries on American media.

    I had this conversation with an employee a few days ago.
    He was under the impression that Cubans hate Americans.

    One thing that the majority of Americans do not know is that Cuba is very very friendly toward Americans. The policy of no Americans in Cuba is a US State Department policy, not a Cuban policy. I have been to Cuban dozens of times and have spent roughly a year there and they are one of the friendliest societies I have ever encountered.

    I have been in Cuba and watched stories of a Father's day riot on CNN (yes you can watch CNN even there) where the citizens are fighting in the streets. I was at the very event that they were referring to and showed footage of and it was nothing more than a street fight between a few Cuban teens who were drinking the free beer from the beer trucks that go through the city on some special occasions.

    Even a simple street fight like this is a rarity in Havana.

  6. #6
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    Originally posted by blue27
    Well said.
    But in a sense perception is reality. You would be suprised how many people in America and in Canada for that matter who base their opinions of other countries on American media.

    I had this conversation with an employee a few days ago.
    He was under the impression that Cubans hate Americans.

    One thing that the majority of Americans do not know is that Cuba is very very friendly toward Americans. The policy of no Americans in Cuba is a US State Department policy, not a Cuban policy. I have been to Cuban dozens of times and have spent roughly a year there and they are one of the friendliest societies I have ever encountered.

    I have been in Cuba and watched stories of a Father's day riot on CNN (yes you can watch CNN even there) where the citizens are fighting in the streets. I was at the very event that they were referring to and showed footage of and it was nothing more than a street fight between a few Cuban teens who were drinking the free beer from the beer trucks that go through the city on some special occasions.

    Even a simple street fight like this is a rarity in Havana.
    Cubans are very friendly and very poor and very hungry. I know many who work with Cubans and when you get off the beaten path where the tourists go, a family lives on 5 lbs of beans and rice a month.

    As usual, we Americans are the backwards ones here with our crazy press corps and evil foreign policy. Somehow, the Iranian elections are lifted up to bash Bush? I don't know what is going on in some people's heads. Nobody is saying the Iranian people aren't decent folk. I have friends who are Iranian. The issue is that the candidates are approved by clerics. Sure its democratic insofar as their elections. There are elections in North Korea too. It is the nature of the elections that is a farce.
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    Originally posted by DevilDog
    Cubans are very friendly and very poor and very hungry. I know many who work with Cubans and when you get off the beaten path where the tourists go, a family lives on 5 lbs of beans and rice a month.


    Cubans are also very well educated and have some of the best free healthcare in the world.

    I have been off the beaten path. I don't go where the tourists go.

    I don't know of any Cuban families who have to live off 5 pounds of beans and rice a month. Perhaps you have seen this first hand?

  8. #8
    That is President Bush to you. Not just Bush
    Don't you walk thru my words
    You got to show some respect
    Don't you walk thru my words
    'Cause you ain't heard me out yet

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    I have not seen it first hand but have a good friend who has.

    As I said, I have nothing against the Cuban people. They are well educated but they are a poor people as well.
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    Originally posted by TalkMilitary
    That is President Bush to you. Not just Bush

    Why is that?
    I see many Americans on this forum refer to other leaders soley by their last name.
    Why should anyone be obliged to use the title?

  11. #11
    Originally posted by blue27
    Why is that?
    I see many Americans on this forum refer to other leaders soley by their last name.
    Why should anyone be obliged to use the title?
    Sorry, I was Military, and I hold a respect for the title. If others do not, that is ok.
    Don't you walk thru my words
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    Don't you walk thru my words
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  12. #12
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    Originally posted by TalkMilitary
    That is President Bush to you. Not just Bush
    No, you're wrong. When you address him, you must -- under all circumstances -- say, "President Bush, His Majesty, Sire of the Great Land of America, His Holiness, how can I be of service to Thee?" If you don't, off with your head!!!

    Anyhow, I'm still perplexed as to how you had the nerve to say such a thing, but I suppose you dislike Iran and its people; that's understandable for someone in the military.

  13. #13
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    Originally posted by SniperDevil
    . . . Anyhow, I'm still perplexed as to how you had the nerve to say such a thing . . .
    Originally posted by TalkMilitary
    Sorry, I was Military, and I hold a respect for the title. If others do not, that is ok.
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  14. #14
    Originally posted by SniperDevil
    No, you're wrong. When you address him, you must -- under all circumstances -- say, "President Bush, His Majesty, Sire of the Great Land of America, His Holiness, how can I be of service to Thee?" If you don't, off with your head!!!

    Anyhow, I'm still perplexed as to how you had the nerve to say such a thing, but I suppose you dislike Iran and its people; that's understandable for someone in the military.
    You suppose too much for a teenager.
    Don't you walk thru my words
    You got to show some respect
    Don't you walk thru my words
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  15. #15
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    Originally posted by SniperDevil
    Anyhow, I'm still perplexed as to how you had the nerve to say such a thing, but I suppose you dislike Iran and its people; that's understandable for someone in the military.
    How did you jump to that conclusion about TalkMilitary?

    I gather from your diatribe that you dislike Oompa Loompas. That's understandable for someone from Fairfax.
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  16. #16
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    Originally posted by Aussie Bob
    Quote Originally Posted by SniperDevil
    . . . Anyhow, I'm still perplexed as to how you had the nerve to say such a thing . . .
    Quote Originally Posted by TalkMilitary
    Sorry, I was Military, and I hold a respect for the title. If others do not, that is ok.
    Just because you respect something doesn't mean you cram it down the throats of others who might not have the same inferiority complex.

  17. #17
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    Originally posted by DevilDog
    How did you jump to that conclusion about TalkMilitary?

    I gather from your diatribe that you dislike Oompa Loompas. That's understandable for someone from Fairfax.
    Whereas Oompa Loompas have absolutely no connection to Fairfax, Iran obviously has a connection to the military. As you undoubtedly know, there are tensions between both countries, and things may get worse down the road. If your job is in the military of one of the sides, in such an environment, one might reasonably assume that there may be some resentfulness and tension between both sides, even on a civilian level.

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    You know very little about the Military based on that comment about assuming we just click our emotions over to dislike people based on conflicts. We take great pains to understand and appreciate the regions we operate in.

    I, on the other hand, know a great deal about people from Fairfax having lived there and know that they hate Oompa Loompas.

    If you feel there is no connection at all then you get my point about your logic being flawed.
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    Let's not forget all the intimidation and violence that occurs prior to the election to ensure that the smaller and more outspoken parties don't receive the support they rightly should.

    I don't think saying you've been to a small part of Iran allows you to state that you know what Iran is like. Sure, some parts would be more liberal than others, but it's certainly not an ideal democracy.

  20. #20
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    Originally posted by DevilDog
    You know very little about the Military based on that comment about assuming we just click our emotions over to dislike people based on conflicts. We take great pains to understand and appreciate the regions we operate in.
    I think you're being a bit naive here, Rich. You seem to speak for all members of the military when you say "we". Unfortunately, as I have heard second-hand and have seen with my own two eyes regarding the Abu Ghraib scandal, not nearly all of the military "takes great pains to understand the regions" they operate in. The opposite can be said, for many members. My mom participated in getting people to register to vote this past fall, and as there is a very large military population around here, she had many interesting discussions and several "altercations" with military people. Some of them even said that the Afghanis and the Iraqis were annoying, uncivilized, and dirty, and that the war isn't going very well. I don't even know what else they said, but some had been there for a year or so, and none of them seemed very enthused, from what I've heard. On the other hand, many people were extremely enthused about getting this so-called "democracy" off the ground, and they seemed to trust and respect the Iraqi people.

    There are always different points of view, and to make the blanket generalization that you did when you spoke for all is just being naive. Not all service members think the way you do. Heck, if you don't believe me, recall the Abu Ghraib scandal. The humiliation and torture our soldiers put those Iraqis through is just disgraceful and disgusting; it doesn't shed a very bright light on our military. More than it portrays the Iraqi "insurgents" as bad, it portrays us as unprofessional and revolting characters, whom people wouldn't want liberating their country. Note that I'm not saying that nearly all of the military is like this, because I very well know that they aren't; I'm merely stating how the shameful Abu Ghraib scandal portrayed our country and our military at that time, and how it proves your supposition wrong.

    Originally posted by DevilDog
    If you feel there is no connection at all then you get my point about your logic being flawed.
    Nope, I really don't get your point, but maybe I was a bit offensive to some of the military folks here when I said what I said.

  21. #21
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    Originally posted by -T{H}R-
    Let's not forget all the intimidation and violence that occurs prior to the election to ensure that the smaller and more outspoken parties don't receive the support they rightly should.

    I don't think saying you've been to a small part of Iran allows you to state that you know what Iran is like. Sure, some parts would be more liberal than others, but it's certainly not an ideal democracy.

    Show me a country that does have an ideal democracy.

  22. #22
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    Originally posted by SniperDevil
    . . . Just because you respect something doesn't mean you cram it down the throats of others . . .
    TalkMilitary simply expressed an opinion. He didn't cram anything down anyone's throat. You'll find that folks do express opinions here, even you, and sometimes others disagree with those opinions. Imagine that? It's all good.
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  23. #23
    Originally posted by SniperDevil
    I think you're being a bit naive here, Rich. You seem to speak for all members of the military when you say "we". Unfortunately, as I have heard second-hand and have seen with my own two eyes regarding the Abu Ghraib scandal, not nearly all of the military "takes great pains to understand the regions" they operate in. The opposite can be said, for many members. My mom participated in getting people to register to vote this past fall, and as there is a very large military population around here, she had many interesting discussions and several "altercations" with military people. Some of them even said that the Afghanis and the Iraqis were annoying, uncivilized, and dirty, and that the war isn't going very well. I don't even know what else they said, but some had been there for a year or so, and none of them seemed very enthused, from what I've heard. On the other hand, many people were extremely enthused about getting this so-called "democracy" off the ground, and they seemed to trust and respect the Iraqi people.

    There are always different points of view, and to make the blanket generalization that you did when you spoke for all is just being naive. Not all service members think the way you do. Heck, if you don't believe me, recall the Abu Ghraib scandal. The humiliation and torture our soldiers put those Iraqis through is just disgraceful and disgusting; it doesn't shed a very bright light on our military. More than it portrays the Iraqi "insurgents" as bad, it portrays us as unprofessional and revolting characters, whom people wouldn't want liberating their country. Note that I'm not saying that nearly all of the military is like this, because I very well know that they aren't; I'm merely stating how the shameful Abu Ghraib scandal portrayed our country and our military at that time, and how it proves your supposition wrong.



    Nope, I really don't get your point, but maybe I was a bit offensive to some of the military folks here when I said what I said.
    And maybe some people get equally offended by Kids spouting off? Jus opinions.... right?

    Perhaps if I was a kid, and only knew what the Parents/Teachers/Media impressed upon me, I would be as naive as sniper devil. When you move out in to the world and make your own way.... and perhaps even serve your country, you may understand where those that have/do serve speak from. But I dunno, I thought war was silly too, when I was a child.
    Last edited by Fair Dinkum; 06-17-2005 at 09:28 PM.
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  24. #24
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    Originally posted by Aussie Bob
    TalkMilitary simply expressed an opinion. He didn't cram anything down anyone's throat. You'll find that folks do express opinions here, even you, and sometimes others disagree with those opinions. Imagine that? It's all good.
    Hah. That was humorous. How is the following an opinion:

    Quote Originally Posted by TalkMilitary
    That is President Bush to you. Not just Bush
    He wasn't expressing an opinion of any sort. He was commanding that we address Bush a certain way. How, again, is that an opinion?

    Bob, I don't mind opinions. What I do, however, mind is people telling others what to do on such a trivial and immaterial issue.

  25. #25
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    Originally posted by blue27
    Show me a country that does have an ideal democracy.
    Switzerland.

  26. #26
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    Originally posted by SniperDevil
    He wasn't expressing an opinion of any sort. He was commanding that we address Bush a certain way. How, again, is that an opinion?
    Of course it's an opinion. He was expressing an opinion on how the President should be addressed. You or anyone else can simply ignore that opinion, because he has no authority to make "commands." That's what makes it an opinion.

    Anyway, this thread's about two or three posts from being closed, since if it ever was worthwhile it's certainly strayed from any worthwhile topic. In my opinion.

  27. #27
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    Originally posted by SniperDevil
    . . . He wasn't expressing an opinion of any sort. He was commanding that we address Bush a certain way. How, again, is that an opinion?
    I don't see any "commanding" there. I certianly didn't feel commanded to call Bush President Bush. But no need to make a mountain out of a molehill. I guess we all see things in different ways.
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  28. #28
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    Originally posted by TalkMilitary
    And maybe some people get eqaully offended by Kids spouting off? Jus opinions.... right?
    I'm sorry you get offended, but consider me barely a kid. My views are not childish, and I think they deserve the respect that you pay to your colleagues and friends. It seems like you have both a superiority and an inferiority complex.

    IMO, I don't care what people call me. Call me less conservative and less set in my ways or whatever you want to label me, but when I'm older and have kids, my kids' friends can call me whatever the heck they want to. I feel awkward calling my friends' parents "Mr. X" and "Mrs. X", and I'm most definitely not going to impose that centuries-old tradition upon my children and their friends. I don't have an insecurity with authority.

  29. #29
    Was simply *MY* opinion of how our CinC should be addressed. Everybody else has theirs.... it is all good.
    Don't you walk thru my words
    You got to show some respect
    Don't you walk thru my words
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  30. #30
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    Originally posted by JayC
    Of course it's an opinion. He was expressing an opinion on how the President should be addressed. You or anyone else can simply ignore that opinion, because he has no authority to make "commands." That's what makes it an opinion.

    Anyway, this thread's about two or three posts from being closed, since if it ever was worthwhile it's certainly strayed from any worthwhile topic. In my opinion.
    Sorry for bringing this thread off-topic even further, Jay! It's hard to contain myself.

    I'm not saying he has authority to do anything, but when somebody commands you instead of politely stating their opinion, you feel a natural cloud of defense come over you, especially if you're inclined to disagree with or take offense to the command. I guess that's how I reacted, but I sure don't like it when people assert that people must use an arbitrary title for an arbitrary man who happened to run for President with hundreds of millions of dollars, fight a dumb friggin' war, and then claim he would do the same darn thing over again.

    TalkMilitary (AKA Glenn, but I suppose you don't want me to call you that ), it's all good. If I offended you, sorry; I just felt you were being a little assertive in that one post.

  31. #31
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    Originally posted by SniperDevil
    IMO, I don't care what people call me.
    Threadkiller.

  32. #32
    Originally posted by -T{H}R-
    Let's not forget all the intimidation and violence that occurs prior to the election to ensure that the smaller and more outspoken parties don't receive the support they rightly should.

    I don't think saying you've been to a small part of Iran allows you to state that you know what Iran is like. Sure, some parts would be more liberal than others, but it's certainly not an ideal democracy.

    I am actually partly Iranian by blood! (My mother is from Iran!)

    Anyways, you are wrong, there are no small parties in iran, candidates respresent 2 diffrent sides, hardlined (right wing) liberal (left wing) <== are also known as the reformists.

    I haven't just been to 1 part of iran, i went to over 8-9 cities on my holiday there. So i think i got a good overall picture, if anything the rural parts were more free than the actual cities!

    As far as i know, to the best of my knowledge there was NO type of violence in the iranian elections though i did read of some certain foul play, but the diffrent sides, but hey, which election is perfect? name me one!

    What matters is the elections ARE FREE, Democratic. Noone if forcing anyone to vote, or vote for a certain party.

    I looked into the biography of the candidartes, looks like an EX-president of iran is RE-Running again! I checked and the early signs are that the Left wings are ahead but its still a CLOSE race.


    Also TalkMilitary, George Bush has NO rank, NO title. He is George W Bush or so called Bush JR in the uk. He doesn't DESERVE to be given a rank WITHOUT working for it, e.g. a DR. Sargent, Corpral are all EARNED ranks through years of hard work. Also you say you are a military man, well wasn't george bush Dishounerably Discharged from the army?
    Last edited by Directory; 06-17-2005 at 09:39 PM.

  33. #33
    Originally posted by SniperDevil
    I'm sorry you get offended, but consider me barely a kid. My views are not childish, and I think they deserve the respect that you pay to your colleagues and friends. It seems like you have both a superiority and an inferiority complex.

    IMO, I don't care what people call me. Call me less conservative and less set in my ways or whatever you want to label me, but when I'm older and have kids, my kids' friends can call me whatever the heck they want to. I feel awkward calling my friends' parents "Mr. X" and "Mrs. X", and I'm most definitely not going to impose that centuries-old tradition upon my children and their friends. I don't have an insecurity with authority.
    I am not offended. I think it is good discussion at times. Even some kids have a good point or two, but I rarely agree with them.
    Don't you walk thru my words
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    Don't you walk thru my words
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  34. #34
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    Originally posted by BigBison
    Threadkiller.
    Big ugly bison!

    Quote Originally Posted by TalkMilitary
    I am not offended. I think it is good discussion at times. Even some kids have a good point or two, but I rarely agree with them.
    It is good discussion -- perfect for a Friday night.

    I think I have some good insight, but then again, I'm rather biased.

    Just remember that not all teenagers fit their stereotype, just as not all of anything necessarily fits its stereotype.

  35. #35

    It is good discussion -- perfect for a Friday night.

    I think I have some good insight, but then again, I'm rather biased.

    Just remember that not all teenagers fit their stereotype, just as not all of anything necessarily fits its stereotype. [/B]
    Stereo? That was on TV last night. "word up" yo!
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  36. #36
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    Originally posted by TalkMilitary
    Stereo? That was on TV last night. "word up" yo!

  37. #37
    Originally posted by Directory

    Also TalkMilitary, George Bush has NO rank, NO title. He is George W Bush or so called Bush JR in the uk. He doesn't DESERVE to be given a rank WITHOUT working for it, e.g. a DR. Sargent, Corpral are all EARNED ranks through years of hard work. Also you say you are a military man, well wasn't george bush Dishounerably Discharged from the army?
    George W. Bush was a lieutenant in the Texas Air National Guard and was discharged honorably.

    He attained the highest rank as Commander in Chief of all the armed forces when the American people voted him into the Presidency of the United States in 2000 and 2004.

    For 8 years he willl have had 2 of the most revered titles in the world: President of the United States and Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States. Those are the two highest ranks anybody anywhere can ever attain.

  38. #38
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
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    Posts
    6,835
    Originally posted by tekky60
    George W. Bush was a lieutenant in the Texas Air National Guard and was discharged honorably.

    He attained the highest rank as Commander in Chief of all the armed forces when the American people voted him into the Presidency of the United States in 2000 and 2004.

    For 8 years he willl have had 2 of the most revered titles in the world: President of the United States and Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States. Those are the two highest ranks anybody anywhere can ever attain.
    He didn't work for any of that, and I wish you'd stop representing it as though he did. He didn't spend thirty years working his butt off to become President; his daddy and their connections helped him along the way. His business skills are mediocre, his intelligence is nothing to be amazed at, he's not very intellectual or open-minded, he's extremely phony, and his jokes are only somewhat humorous.

    It seems like you're proud of George W. Bush. By all means, that's fine, but I think there are many more deserving people than him. He barely even runs his operations; Dick and his Cabinet do it all for him!

  39. #39
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    24,009
    Originally posted by SniperDevil
    I'm sorry you get offended, but consider me barely a kid. My views are not childish, and I think they deserve the respect that you pay to your colleagues and friends.

    It is very hard for adults, to actually respect a 15yr old's opinion, when they are yet to venture out of the nest, into the big world etc. That doesn't make it right or wrong. It's just very hard.

    I do try and respect sniperdevil, with his opinions on this forum etc. I think sniperdevil is one of the most intelligent 15yr olds I've ever known, with an excellent volcabulary, sentence structure, reasoning and a somewhat twisted sense of humor.

    I do find it difficult to respect a 15 yr old's opinion on complex world matters, when one is so young and yet to fly the nest, but respect should be extended, no matter how old folks are.
    It seems like you have both a superiority and an inferiority complex.
    That's quite common, actually.
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  40. #40
    Originally posted by SniperDevil
    He didn't work for any of that, and I wish you'd stop representing it as though he did. He didn't spend thirty years working his butt off to become President; his daddy and their connections helped him along the way. His business skills are mediocre, his intelligence is nothing to be amazed at, he's not very intellectual or open-minded, he's extremely phony, and his jokes are only somewhat humorous.

    It seems like you're proud of George W. Bush. By all means, that's fine, but I think there are many more deserving people than him. He barely even runs his operations; Dick and his Cabinet do it all for him!
    When it comes to becoming president, not too many people who were president would qualify to be president, according to your spedifications. Bill Clinton comes to mind.

    Intelligence? That great scholar that the democrats admired so much, I think his name was something like sKerry, actually had lower grades in college than Bush, and had a lower intelligence rating than Bush on his military entrance exam.

    After four and a half years, he has accomplished a whole lot more than Bill Clinton did in 8 years. And, he's not done yet! Hell yeah, I'm proud of Bush!!!!!!!!!

    And, you're still buying into the great big lie that somebody else is pulling the strings? Nobody in the MSM is making those claims anymore. Don't you think that all of that would've been disclosed by now, especially when the government consists of many Cabinet members and assistants and advisors? Somebody, somewhere down the line would've exposed Bush by now.

    Apparently, your hate for Bush blinds you.

    Get real!!!!

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