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  1. #1

    MSNBC Poll - Do you believe President Bush misled the nation in order to go to war

    Do you believe President Bush misled the nation in order to go to war with Iraq?

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8248969/#survey

    17764 responses with a %94 yes vote
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  2. #2
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    I forsee :

    MSNBC is clearly democratic, now if we asked this on a unbiased network, such as FOX...
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  3. #3
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    "Not a scientifically valid survey."
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  4. #4
    Originally posted by Hiccups
    "Not a scientifically valid survey."
    It is not scientifically valid because it is a web poll that is not in a controlled envrionment. It still means near 18,000 people have voted and %94 said he is a liar.
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  5. #5
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    I am a big bush supporter and even I had to vote yes.
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  6. #6
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    Re: MSNBC Poll - Do you believe President Bush misled the nation in order to go to w

    Originally posted by RossH
    Do you believe President Bush misled the nation in order to go to war with Iraq?

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8248969/#survey

    17764 responses with a %94 yes vote
    I think this all depends on what you mean by Bush misleading the nation. Do you mean "tried to mislead"? Myself, being a US citizen and many people I know residing here, no one I know thought it was true, including myself. So, some countries saying he duped or mislead the nation or US citizens is often the incorrect statement. Not that you meant this, but I thought I'd personally state this for my sake and many of those people I know. Apparently he duped enough people. The simple fact is, if they had the proof to justify a war in the name of WMD, then they'd have not had any problem presenting the actual proof and reason to the UN or the nation.

    The fact he didn't have that proof is troubling, since without any proof to show the nation or the UN, he still found it good enough to go to war. I think more people would have been behind the war if he'd simply made a case about why Saddam should have been removed from power and the crimes he committed. While I'd have been more in support of that reason, I don't think there was such a huge urgency (of course, the claim of WMD was the reason for the 'urgency').

    Anyway, we, the people, can't do a damn thing about what our president does. We have no power to stop it or vote against it, so hopefully more of the other nations will understand that "we, the people" are not responsible for the actions of one man or his panel of lackey's and stop thinking all the American people are suckers and are gullible. After all, the US people didn't vote him into office, at least not the first time. I'm still amazed the goof ball won a second term, but oh well, I just live here and pay taxes, I guess it's none of my business. Of course, I don't speak for anyone but myself, I'm sure there's plenty of people that support him and the war too, and even people that believe there was WMD's and still are.
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  7. #7
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    Originally posted by justadollarhostin
    I am a big bush supporter and even I had to vote yes.
    So, how are you a big Bush supporter, seeing you believe he mislead, or tried to mislead the nation? I'm only curious, I'm not getting on your case about it or anything.
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  8. #8
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    Originally posted by Tim_Greer
    So, how are you a big Bush supporter, seeing you believe he mislead, or tried to mislead the nation? I'm only curious, I'm not getting on your case about it or anything.
    No harm taken at all. I don't believe anybody honestly agrees with everything a president does/says in their term, and even worse it is commmon for people to feel like they are picking the "lesser of the two evils" when it comes to presidents in the United States. I like having Bush as a president and I am fond of quite a few of his policies. I voted Bush over Kerry and I would do the same thing again (I will also most likely try to re-ellect him, but that always depends on who he is running against). However, when it comes to the way he took the war on Iraq I believe he did "misleed" the country into believing facts that I think he knew to be false. If I would have known then what I know now about Iraq (speaking about the weapons that they had) I would have in no way supported the war.

    That being said I could point out a case when almost every president in the history of the nation has done something that I did not care for. It almost seems like it is part of the job anymore. If Kerry had been elected I am sure he also would have done something that was stupid and looked down upon by a large portion of the nation. The best way to put it is that bush gets a B as president in my book. I can accept a president misleading the nation (weather it was intentional or not) one time in his term. Without knowing all the facts it is hard to put a hex on him.

    It's really a hard position to explain, but I hope i've done at least a semi-good job.
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  9. #9
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    I recently read a report in The Times which talked about how an excuse for going to war with Iraq had to be found. Personally, I wouldn’t be surprised if the majority of people now believe that Bush misled them – no WMD has been found; but that doesn’t necessarily mean that they now believe America shouldn’t have gone to war.
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  10. #10
    Originally posted by Anjay
    I recently read a report in The Times which talked about how an excuse for going to war with Iraq had to be found. Personally, I wouldn’t be surprised if the majority of people now believe that Bush misled them – no WMD has been found; but that doesn’t necessarily mean that they now believe America shouldn’t have gone to war.
    Your talking about the Downing Street Memo:

    http://www.downingstreetmemo.com/
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...593607,00.html
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  11. #11
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    Well the only poll that counts is election day. It's just a pity that the 94% vote in this poll, didn't equate to removing Bush from office last election.
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  12. #12
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    Well, politics and people's opinions are just too difficult to try and debate anyway, so I was just curious. I guess my issue isn't the attempts to mislead, but that people have been sent off to war and so many have died, and so many have been wounded. If this was a Water Gate scandal or something, I could see saying everyone gets one big mistake as a president, but the lives, the costs and the problems it created, I find pretty disturbing, where I'd have preferred nearly anyone else in office than him. I mean, this is a big deal in my book, but that's my view.

    I'm not even saying that he didn't have inaccurate information that made him believe there was really a threat--I'd find that much more comforting in why he sent people off to war. However, the fact he wasn't able to present anything with any substance to convince anyone else, pretty much tells me that he did know it wasn't true. Had he presented something false, not knowing that appeared to be a threat, I could start to understand a reason and justification.

    Of course, because how I personally feel about it, I find it difficult to imagine why anyone would be okay with it to any degree, but I certainly understand and can accept that not everyone agrees with my view or thinks like I do, so that's okay and I won't debate or argue it. I just sort of am a bit verbose about it, because how I personally feel about him and what he did. You are surely right, and I truly believe the choices of candidates has been truly pathetic as long as I've been alive and aware anyway. It's sad and frustrating and unfair and undemocratic and, in my opinion, hardly a sign of a free country where the people don't have a choice (often, sometimes it happens). I'm sure Kerry would have been a bone head, too, but I'd hope no worse. I've seriously thought "at least this guy can't be any worse than this guy" and have been wrong before.
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  13. #13
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    Originally posted by Aussie Bob
    Well the only poll that counts is election day. It's just a pity that the 94% vote in this poll, didn't equate to removing Bush from office last election. :(

    Well, that is how I felt. I don't vote, since it doesn't matter (unless you live in a specific county in Florida, apparently), but I did make an effort to vote against him. I didn't see it as a vote for Kerry, but a vote against Bush.
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  14. #14
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    Re: Re: MSNBC Poll - Do you believe President Bush misled the nation in order to go to w

    Originally posted by Tim_Greer
    . . . After all, the US people didn't vote him into office, at least not the first time.

    Not sure what you mean by that. He was elected for his first term, even if it was a judgment from the Supreme court.
    I'm still amazed the goof ball won a second term . . .

    You and me both. I couldn't believe he got there the first time, and didn't think he stood a snowflakes chance in hell for the 2nd term, given the Iraq disaster, his obvious incompetance and Moore's F-911 hack flick.
    . . . I'm sure there's plenty of people that support him and the war too . . .
    I've always supported the removal of Saddam, and if it took a "goof ball" like GBW to do it, then so be it.
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  15. #15
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    so what if he lied, i dont see anyone doing anything about it. Lets form a rally, that will show him.
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  16. #16
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    i believe that if satan exists, he currently owns real estate inside the mind of george bush.
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  17. #17
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    Originally posted by 3rdcoast
    so what if he lied, i dont see anyone doing anything about it. Lets form a rally, that will show him.
    You're joking, right? Maybe you missed all of them?
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  18. #18
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    Re: Re: Re: MSNBC Poll - Do you believe President Bush misled the nation in order to

    Originally posted by Aussie Bob

    You and me both. I couldn't believe he got there the first time, and didn't think he stood a snowflakes chance in hell for the 2nd term, given the Iraq disaster, his obvious incompetance and Moore's F-911 hack flick.
    What a hot topic--who would have guessed? :-) Well, some of Moore's theories are more than a little over the top. It's entertaining and I'm glad he isn't afraid to say what he thinks (and make good money by doing it, apparently), but the fact it was so loosely put together with so many strange conspiracies, is what turned a lot of people off and made them discount the actual good points that were valid which Moore had made. So, I don't think it swayed people to really vote any different than they would have.

    Supporters saw it as lies and hated Moore and people against Bush were just saying "Yeah, exactly!" Of course, then there's the normal people that don't get swayed by a movie that watched it and just didn't care and took from it what it presented--some real, valid points and some not to valid sort of kooky theories. I think, had Moore laid off the conspiracy theory stuff more and presented the facts, since they were interesting enough, I believe more people might have had their eyes opened... or not, depending on what you believe.
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  19. #19
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    What I dont understand is why this President is allowed to mislead his own people without taking responsibility or facing any serious repercussions. As I've said before, Bush has a plethora of resources at his disposal, he should be able to back up his intelligence with factual information or be smart enough to make an informed decision. He's either very naive which is a quality no US president should possess, or very sinister because he knew the truth about this war the entire time.

    I would have a lot more respect for a man who said "I made a mistake, I apologize", but our current president is such a little peck, he doesn't even have the balls to admit his own wrongs.

    If Clinton can be impeached for lying about his affair, then Bush should be faced with the same punishment. Clintons affair didn't cost us billions of dollars or 25,000 human lives. Those who mislead and lie to this extent are not fit to be in a leaders position.
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  20. #20
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    A president can do anything they want. The worst that can happen, is they will be impeached. They have the ultimate power. They can't be put in prison, as it would open up too many national security issues, so they'd have to be in their own prison with extremely high security to keep people from having access, and that would be too much of an embarrassment.

    This is why he has nothing to worry about and won't face any ramifications of his actions, assuming it would be proved that he did indeed know. In my opinion, even questioning if he's that stupid seems redundant. I think he is, but I don't think that's why he went to war. I think he's an embarrassment--in my opinion. Not a job I'd want, but he seems to be pretty bad at it.
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  21. #21
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    Originally posted by case
    What I dont understand is why this President is allowed to mislead his own people without taking responsibility or facing any serious repercussions. As I've said before, Bush has a plethora of resources at his disposal, he should be able to back up his intelligence with factual information or be smart enough to make an informed decision. He's either very naive which is a quality no US president should possess, or very sinister because he knew the truth about this war the entire time.

    I would have a lot more respect for a man who said "I made a mistake, I apologize", but our current president is such a little peck, he doesn't even have the balls to admit his own wrongs.

    If Clinton can be impeached for lying about his affair, then Bush should be faced with the same punishment. Clintons affair didn't cost us billions of dollars or 25,000 human lives. Those who mislead and lie to this extent are not fit to be in a leaders position.
    Where did the 25,000 human lives stat come from?
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  22. #22
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    Originally posted by justadollarhostin
    Where did the 25,000 human lives stat come from?
    I actually didn't pay attention to that part, but I'd assume this includes citizens of Iraq and not just US and allied forces?
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  23. #23
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    Originally posted by Tim_Greer
    I actually didn't pay attention to that part, but I'd assume this includes citizens of Iraq and not just US and allied forces?
    Well, there was this one (cough cough) "organisation", who conducted some kind of study in Iraq to determine how many Iraqi civilians were killed in the conflict. They came up (dart board and blindfold technique, imo ) that there were 100,000 Iraqis killed in the conflict. Then the world's media organisations went into a frenzy on that study, and touted it as fact, and making that pretty much headline news for the following days.

    So maybe that 25,000 was the previous 100,000 figure revised?

    I think there has been 1700 US military deaths and 25,000 injuried, so far in the Iraqi conflict.
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  24. #24
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    Originally posted by case
    What I dont understand is why this President is allowed to mislead his own people without taking responsibility or facing any serious repercussions. As I've said before, Bush has a plethora of resources at his disposal, he should be able to back up his intelligence with factual information or be smart enough to make an informed decision. He's either very naive which is a quality no US president should possess, or very sinister because he knew the truth about this war the entire time.

    I would have a lot more respect for a man who said "I made a mistake, I apologize", but our current president is such a little peck, he doesn't even have the balls to admit his own wrongs.

    If Clinton can be impeached for lying about his affair, then Bush should be faced with the same punishment. Clintons affair didn't cost us billions of dollars or 25,000 human lives. Those who mislead and lie to this extent are not fit to be in a leaders position.

    it can be argued that clintons inaction and lack of moral fiber are what allowed the current situation to acrue including 9/11.

    clinton should have resigned instead of hanging on and subjecting the nations top office to shame.
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  25. #25
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    Oddly enough within the last 30 years has there been one president the nation has actually loved?
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