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  1. #1
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    Webhosters BEWARE!!!

    Hello guyz...

    I just got an email today from my bank that someone did a chargeback for an order that he/she made. This is gonna be my 1st ChargeBack and I'm so very very extremely not happy with this.

    The funny thing is that I actually did not bother to call to verify the person who purchased it as it was just an EXTREMELY small amount of money $10.58 only.

    Now, since that fella made the chargeback, I am gonna be not only out of $10.58, but also with a stupid ChargeBack fee of however much they bank decides to charge me!

    I'm not sure what I should do but... please beware of this person:

    Name : Mark L. Downs
    Email : x-man@???.com
    Addy : Grand Junction CO

    All he did was register a domain with me and got a hosting package with me (very small one).

    The Domain Registered : reverse-cjb [dot] net

    Goodness!!! All he has to do was inform me that it wasn't him or something like that and I'll refund the money instead of him going through all the stupid mess to dispute the charge and etc.

    So totally not happy!!!

    Edit : Maybe I went too far with the email thingy and some wordings, just took it off
    Last edited by aodat2; 06-14-2005 at 02:50 PM.
    Aaron Ong
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  2. #2
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    aodat2,

    You've already disclosed too much information.
    This isn't the first time you've done so, do you not have any respect for your client's information? (whether or not he/they made a chargeback isn't the issue anymore).

    "The funny thing is that I actually did not bother to call to verify the person who purchased it"

    Yeah, fraud tickles.
    Now remove the guys information.
    David
    Web hosting by Fused For businesses with more important things to do than worry about their hosting.
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  3. #3
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    Excuse me David, but could you point out when/where did I actually provided too much information in the past? (not this time)

    I'm giving a warning to everyone out there that if you get a client such as him, you'd better review it properly before you approve it.

    I'm not sure if you're actually getting my point or not, but oh well...

    Please David, tell me where/when I gave out too much information (in the past). Else, please do not accuse me of giving out too much information.

    Thank you!
    Aaron Ong
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  4. #4
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    So dispute the chargeback. Better yet, contact the customer? Perhaps they tried contacting you and couldn't for whatever reason, you just don't know.

    Instead, you've called someone an IDIOT and attached their name, e-mail and address in a public forum. I'm sorry someone filed a chargeback against you, aodat2, but your response is lacking... professionalism, and is out of line.
    Eric J. Bowman, principal
    Bison Systems Corporation coming soon: a new sig!
    I'm just a poor, unfrozen caveman Webmaster. Your new 'standards' frighten, and confuse me...
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  5. #5
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    aodat,

    I could have sworn I've seen posts from you in the past that included information

    (ip's, etc. is still all too much - this is a public forum. You as a provider should keep all information TO yourself, no matter WHAT they have done to you, it's one thing if its illegal and you get a warrant for it, otherwise don't release a single detail, ever.).

    And again - the order was most likely fraud: You didn't call the original person in charge of paying, it's all your fault. Admit it and go ahead and attach an idiot button to yourself, not some random in Colorado who has been defrauded.

    "I'm giving a warning to everyone out there that if you get a client such as him, you'd better review it properly before you approve it."

    How about you properly review EVERY single order rather than singling this one out? Again this is entirely your own fault.
    David
    Web hosting by Fused For businesses with more important things to do than worry about their hosting.
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  6. #6
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    David, I've NEVER and let me stress... NEVER disclosed anything of this kind to anyone at all except those of a fraudster.

    I've never given IP's out to the public nor have I ever done anything of this kind. This is my 1st time doing so because almost all of my orders go through a screening test before the account is created. YES, we do review most (if not all) of our accounts before we approve them.

    If you're seriously going to dispute something, think of how much you're disputing and if you could, just write me an email and I'll verify everything was a fake and would be more than glad to refund that $10 to you.

    It's nothing much. Going to the bank, filling out the forms and disputing such charges seems to be very far out for $10.

    I'm sure the drive to the bank and etc would have cost about that much already.

    Ps. Please make sure you verify your FACTS before you actually accuse me of something. OK? Thanx!
    Aaron Ong
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  7. #7
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    You're assuming David was actually your customer. More likely, someone stole his information and purchased 1000s of dollars worth of stuff from merchants, such as yourself, who didn't properly screen for fraud orders. Now, should this innocent victim spend hours/days tracking down each merchant? In my opinion, I think its perfectly reasonable for him to cancel his credit card and file chargebacks on each and every merchant (yourself included) that failed to properly screen for fraud orders.

    Yes, we've had fraud orders slip through...and I kick myself for it every time. I certainly don't blame the victim.

    --Tina
    ||| 99.999% Uptime SLA!!!
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  8. #8
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    aodat2,

    Have you called the original client yet?
    You have their contact details (as you were just itching to release them here).

    Give them a call and apologize for letting fraud get through.
    David
    Web hosting by Fused For businesses with more important things to do than worry about their hosting.
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  9. #9
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    Maybe I was wrong... Maybe he did have his CC stolen and etc. But, this is kinda the 1st time where I got an order which is this small going through as a fraud. It's something very new for me. Usually, we take the time to confirm orders with our clients but since this was only $10.58, I practically did something stupid and didn't think about it as a fraud and etc.

    Perhaps I was wrong. I'm not sure. But I still say... BEWARE and look at your orders and verify them carefully.

    Usually fraudsters make charges of BIG amount, small amounts like this usually doesn't give out a red flag. Also, the nicest thing was the ADDY and etc was verified as CORRECT! How interesting!
    Aaron Ong
    Dedicated Servers - 100TB Servers - 100Mbps Unmetered Servers - Web Hosting - CDN Network
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  10. #10
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    "ADDY and etc was verified as CORRECT!"

    By whom?
    David
    Web hosting by Fused For businesses with more important things to do than worry about their hosting.
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  11. #11
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    The fraudster normally posed as the person in question , having their correct credit card info. But normally fraudsters go for the largest package. I guess nowadays they are getting smarter and trying to act normal. Best to give that guy a call, ascertain if it is a fraud case and act accordingly.
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  12. #12
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    David, I'm just wondering if you've ever seen a billing system in action before? I'm guessing you have not!

    When your AVS code comes back as YYY, you do not question much about the addy as being wrong! I'm just guessing that you're fairly new in this and do not know a thing about your billing system and etc.

    Anyway, if you don't know that by now, I guess there's no point in me explaining everything to you.

    BTW, I'm not here to fight with you. If you have something against me, PM me and we'll "fight" it out.

    boonchuan:
    Didn't think it was a fraud case cause it was just only $10.58. It's a very extremely small amount. I doubt you'd have know it was fraudulant on that amount.
    Aaron Ong
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  13. #13
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    Yes, in my experience, fraudsters always have the correct address and phone number....it helps the cc pass fraud detection. This is why we always voice verify orders. You'd be amazed at the number of times we get the card holder on the phone, only to hear them say "What?!?" when we tell them someone ordered hosting services in their name.

    Its not so common for fraud orders to only be huge dollar amounts. Most of the time its the DOMAIN REGISTRATION on a small order that tips us off now. I can tell you right now that the domain name you posted would have sent red flags waving for me.

    --Tina
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  14. #14
    there are too many badhosts like you out there aodat
    this is the problem.

    i will stay away from welltodocentury.com
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  15. #15
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    Originally posted by aodat2
    David, I'm just wondering if you've ever seen a billing system in action before? I'm guessing you have not!

    When your AVS code comes back as YYY, you do not question much about the addy as being wrong! I'm just guessing that you're fairly new in this and do not know a thing about your billing system and etc.

    Anyway, if you don't know that by now, I guess there's no point in me explaining everything to you.

    BTW, I'm not here to fight with you. If you have something against me, PM me and we'll "fight" it out.

    In my experience, AVS didn't stop much fraud and DID stop legitimate orders from coming through (people who recently moved and their addresses didn't match). Mismatched address doesn't tell you much, unless you actually ship tangible items to your customers. In this business, its practically irrelevant.

    --Tina
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  16. #16
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    aodat2,

    I can safely say our billing system is more advanced than your own .

    Just because the address and phone number all match flawlessly does not mean the e-mail does. Some fraudsters attempt to bank on certain hosts whom do not phone verify their orders.

    Bill,

    Certainly from what I can see you've made the right choice.
    David
    Web hosting by Fused For businesses with more important things to do than worry about their hosting.
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  17. #17
    Just to chime in here, just as the OP assumed this was a legit client who's defrauding him by doing a chargeback, HP-David, Tina, etc are also guilty of the assuming that it's not.

    aodht, if you have access to the domain name, change the whois and password on it back to you.
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  18. #18
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    Dont let the amount of purchase decide wether the check if its a fraud or not.. (Yes, the higher amounts are usually frauds)

    I just opened for business and already received a 1878.88 fraud order from a cc.. i got all the information.. I wanted confirmation before I went thru with it.. Never got Confirmation..

    But in another lifetime, When I owned All In One Hosting, I recieved a fraud order of 15.00 (they pre-payed for 3 months of hosting) after about 85 days they did a chargeback.. Luckily enough, I complained to my bank, and my bank didnt charge me anything..

    Talk with your bank.. Maybe they can reason with you..

    ONE THING IS FOR SURE: Giving someones information out on a public place isnt right... or is it even legal?!? They did a charge back, you should come here to ask for help and not say "watch out for Jane Doe at [email protected]" Thats giving to much information on that person which (in my book) can go after you for some privacy laws.. and maybe even slander?!?

    Just my .02
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  19. #19
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    For us, we don't take credit card orders from ALL overseas sign up because of the risks involved. Though 99% are dead giveaways with a viet sounding names, the rest are requested to pay by bank wires for their 1st payment. Only on subsequent payments do we allow credit card. I know that's restrictive but the amount of fraud out there is amazing.
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  20. #20
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    Slander is spoken lies. You're thinking of libel.

    --Tina
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  21. #21
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    ArtieFishill,

    I'm really not guilty of anything - if it's a legitimate client: Is giving the client's details out fair to the client?

    If it's fraud: is giving someone elses details out fair to anyone?!
    David
    Web hosting by Fused For businesses with more important things to do than worry about their hosting.
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  22. #22
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    As far as I could tell, I might be giving too much information earlier but I've changed everything and if you're wise enough, you could check the whitepages and etc and you'll notice that there's no Mark Downs in CO at all.

    Oh gosh... another kick to me!
    Aaron Ong
    Dedicated Servers - 100TB Servers - 100Mbps Unmetered Servers - Web Hosting - CDN Network
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  23. #23
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    My opinion would be to remove the details until you verify and confirmed this guy is the guy who really intend to commit fraud. Or it will be very very unfair for him.

    Aodat2; better call and confirm to be fair to that person.
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  24. #24
    Originally posted by HP-David

    Bill,

    Certainly from what I can see you've made the right choice.
    i dont want to see my phone nummber here,
    and all of you you guys calling mye to say goodnihgt
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  25. #25
    Originally posted by platinumn23
    Dont let the amount of purchase decide wether the check if its a fraud or not.. (Yes, the higher amounts are usually frauds)

    I just opened for business and already received a 1878.88 fraud order from a cc.. i got all the information.. I wanted confirmation before I went thru with it.. Never got Confirmation..

    But in another lifetime, When I owned All In One Hosting, I recieved a fraud order of 15.00 (they pre-payed for 3 months of hosting) after about 85 days they did a chargeback.. Luckily enough, I complained to my bank, and my bank didnt charge me anything..

    Talk with your bank.. Maybe they can reason with you..

    ONE THING IS FOR SURE: Giving someones information out on a public place isnt right... or is it even legal?!? They did a charge back, you should come here to ask for help and not say "watch out for Jane Doe at [email protected]" Thats giving to much information on that person which (in my book) can go after you for some privacy laws.. and maybe even slander?!?

    Just my .02
    LIBEL!!!! Damn it...LIBEL...Slander is SPOKEN, LIBEL is WRITTEN!! Grrrrrr.
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  26. #26
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    Originally posted by ArtieFishill
    LIBEL!!!! Damn it...LIBEL...Slander is SPOKEN, LIBEL is WRITTEN!! Grrrrrr.
    Yeah, that bugs me too!



    --Tina
    ||| 99.999% Uptime SLA!!!
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  27. #27
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    Did you see me putting a phone number here?
    All I gave you was his Name, Email and Location. NOTHING ELSE. If you think that's too much, then I guess perhaps you should rethink everything. Cause as far as I know, I could list Tina's addy, Boon Chuan's addy and even David's addy if I wanted to.

    It's fairly easy to find.

    By the way, the email addy is not correct either, so now it leave me with 2 things, name and Location.

    If anyone of you think that Name and Location is such a BIG deal, then perhaps I should tell you guyz where you could find someone's name and Location very easily.

    Check their company out (those who have signatures), get his name and ID from here, put them both together and you've got yourself a name and location of someone.

    Goodness!!! I don't understand what you guyz are trying to get at. So pathetic!!!
    Aaron Ong
    Dedicated Servers - 100TB Servers - 100Mbps Unmetered Servers - Web Hosting - CDN Network
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  28. #28
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    One thing to add, an average internet fraudster don't normally come for the monetary value of the hosting, they are more or less looking at a place for them to do phishing and or spamming purposes.

    Credit card info are easy to come back, so that guy whose info is posted may be a victim himself.
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  29. #29
    Originally posted by HP-David
    ArtieFishill,

    I'm really not guilty of anything - if it's a legitimate client: Is giving the client's details out fair to the client?

    If it's fraud: is giving someone elses details out fair to anyone?!
    Actually, if it was a legit client and they did a false chargeback for service rendered, they commited fraud and are no longer a client. But as in this case, we don't know what the real story is and so, I agree teh OP should not have posted that info.
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  30. #30
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    ArtieFishill,

    What info is so great that I posted over here that makes such a great BIG DEAL???

    I would just like to know that... nothing else. Just that.
    Aaron Ong
    Dedicated Servers - 100TB Servers - 100Mbps Unmetered Servers - Web Hosting - CDN Network
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  31. #31
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    aodat2,

    Just because something is easily available does not mean you should have the right to post's someone elses location on a public forum without their permission.

    I hope you mention this in your TOS, that you have the "right" to redistribute their addresses/data on their behalf.

    Otherwise you're in for a world of hurt!
    David
    Web hosting by Fused For businesses with more important things to do than worry about their hosting.
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  32. #32
    Originally posted by aodat2
    Did you see me putting a phone number here?
    All I gave you was his Name, Email and Location. NOTHING ELSE. If you think that's too much, then I guess perhaps you should rethink everything. Cause as far as I know, I could list Tina's addy, Boon Chuan's addy and even David's addy if I wanted to.

    It's fairly easy to find.

    By the way, the email addy is not correct either, so now it leave me with 2 things, name and Location.

    If anyone of you think that Name and Location is such a BIG deal, then perhaps I should tell you guyz where you could find someone's name and Location very easily.

    Check their company out (those who have signatures), get his name and ID from here, put them both together and you've got yourself a name and location of someone.

    Goodness!!! I don't understand what you guyz are trying to get at. So pathetic!!!
    no, name and location is not a big deal for a badhost like you badhosts do worst things too
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  33. #33
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    Can we have the thread renamed to 'Clients beware'?
    I think it would be more appropriate.
    David
    Web hosting by Fused For businesses with more important things to do than worry about their hosting.
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  34. #34
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    Excuse me David,

    Did I actually give out an address? If I did, show me where!! If I did not, then SHUT THE HELL UP! At 1st you try to tell me that I'm a liar and I've always done such a thing.

    Now you're telling me that I'm in a whole big lot of trouble and etc.

    Please for goodness sakes, David. Grow up! Please have FACTS before you actually say something. If you don't have FACTS to back you up, please do not try to tell people they are wrong or etc.

    Here's a small advice for you:
    Only say things that you could back up. If you can't then don't even say it.
    Aaron Ong
    Dedicated Servers - 100TB Servers - 100Mbps Unmetered Servers - Web Hosting - CDN Network
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  35. #35
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    Calm down everyone. We're not in grade school anymore. No need to resort to name calling and shut-ups.

    --Tina
    ||| 99.999% Uptime SLA!!!
    Plenty of space and bandwidth to fit your needs!
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  36. #36
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    aodat2,

    I have multiple shared hosting accounts with lots of providers.
    Multiple dedicated servers with multiple providers.

    If any of them even went as far as giving out my e-mail address I would see them in court, even though it is publically available (on multiple forums).

    Why? Because - I offer it out because it is my right to, I own it.
    It isn't their right to distribute my information, of any sort. No matter what form it is, no matter if its a "warning" that perhaps I was a week late on a bill, or performed a chargeback or whatever reason.

    If they gave out my information without being given a warrant, again I would see them in court.

    (I would also plan on winning).
    David
    Web hosting by Fused For businesses with more important things to do than worry about their hosting.
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  37. #37
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    Being a Host Myself, I would never redistribute any materials of my clients.. I would refer them to client 1 and client 2..

    There are worse things that can be said / done about this.. Dont let it get you down.. Take this as a Lesson; Never do it again.. Verify all order..
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  38. #38
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    aodat2,

    Don't forget the following on your own site:

    http://www.welltodocentury.com/html/privacy.html
    David
    Web hosting by Fused For businesses with more important things to do than worry about their hosting.
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  39. #39
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    You're hoping too much David.

    You see, the email addy that I actually pasted was a fake!!! I couldn't even do something right. Damn it! I actually accidentally copied and pasted the account of some email (spam) that I received and put it up there! Goodness!!! How in the world am I so darn careless!!!

    Man, I so darn wish it was your Information that I put up there! I would love to see you trying to get me to court.

    I would have countersued you instead for dragging me into court for nothing and also all other damages!!!

    Edit: If posting someone's name and the area he lives in is wrong, boy oh boy... I guess I'm in much trouble. I also hope there's only 1 person with that name in the whole world coz if there's more than 1, I guess I could be refferring to someone else.
    Last edited by aodat2; 06-14-2005 at 04:18 PM.
    Aaron Ong
    Dedicated Servers - 100TB Servers - 100Mbps Unmetered Servers - Web Hosting - CDN Network
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  40. #40
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    aodat2,

    I'm quite saddened by your responses.
    Glad to see you're willing to part with your client's information so quickly.
    David
    Web hosting by Fused For businesses with more important things to do than worry about their hosting.
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