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Thread: Abandonware games hosting
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06-13-2005, 02:58 PM #1Junior Guru Wannabe
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Abandonware games hosting
OK, I have perhaps a slightly odd request for web host recommendations.
I own a site that, amongst many others, hosts some 'abandonware' games. I'm looking to move away from my current host who has a rather fuzzy policy on this sort of thing, as well as being rather uncompetetive in today's market.
Now it's not that I'm a 100% warez site. I think that would be a far more difficult prospect to get hosting for. ;-)
What I'm really looking for is a host who won't immediately cave in to the first letter they receive to tear a site down, without any notice. One that only does what is necessary to satisfy legal requirements, eg. remove only the offending content, not the whole site.
I'm perfectly happy to remove content on my site that I put up that may accidentally infringe someone's copyright, but what I don't want is my webhost removing my whole site at the drop of a hat for this reason. I'd like to be contacted and warned first, then if neessary, the content removed, but NOT the whole site. Removal of the whole site would be pretty damn annoying.
In addition, I'd like a host that can host me for $50/month or less, and have live IRC/webchat/IM support, preferably 24/7. ;-)
Could anyone give recommendations for hosts that fit this bill?
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06-13-2005, 03:13 PM #2Junior Guru
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If we are talking about abandonware, i don't think you will have any problem finding an host. But there is a big diference between abandonware and copywrighted software, and sharing copyrighted software is illegal, so no matter wich hosting company host your files, if you are dumping illegal stuffs you will get your site supended.
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06-13-2005, 03:20 PM #3Web Hosting Master
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jez9999,
It's pirated software, whats the difference?
"cave in to the first letter they receive"
From the proper copyright owners, and that is exactly how it should function these days.
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06-13-2005, 03:23 PM #4Junior Guru Wannabe
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HP-David: as I said, i'm quite happy to remove stuff from my site that inadvertantly breaches someone's copyright. As I also said, i'm looking for a host who will just remove the offending material, and preferably first give me a warning so I can do it myself. I am looking for a host who will NOT immediately take down my entire site, without warning.
For example, this is what my current host had to say on the matter, which seems to me like a reasonable policy:
Them: "well, we dont take any action until someone forces us to. it could be an authority or author, if it's authority, they usually want us to release some information such as the files themselves and user's contact info. if author, they usually want us to remove the content from our server"
Me: "apparently, you're taking a huge risk with your policy on copyrighted material"
Them: "so if author sends us such letter we will force you to take that game down and if we continue to receive such notice, we will have to close your account"
Me: "ah but you'd only need for the game to be taken down, which is fine"
Them: "yes."
That policy is fine by me, and I'm really looking for other hosts with a similar policy.Last edited by jez9999; 06-13-2005 at 03:27 PM.
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06-13-2005, 03:25 PM #5Retired Moderator
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jez9999,
You should verify that you use the content data which does not violate the law, otherwise you should not be surprised, when the data is removed.Imagination is more important than knowledge.
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06-13-2005, 03:28 PM #6Junior Guru Wannabe
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maxo: i'm happy for the *infringing content* to be removed. What I'm saying is that I don't want my entire site removed. One game, fine. Entire site, not fine. In fact, if the host's policy was to first give me a warning, I would remove the infringing content myself. What I don't want is to wake up one day and find my entire site gone because of one problem file. Some hosts are rather draconian like that.
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06-13-2005, 03:41 PM #7Junior Guru
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Most host will warn you first, maybe they will give you a third chance, also called last cahnce :p
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06-13-2005, 03:44 PM #8Junior Guru Wannabe
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Well yeah... 'most'. I'm really looking for one that is slightly more tolerant of this than most. With a site such as mine, the odd notice may come in from time to time. Many hosts may, on a second notice, just suspend your account. There needs to be an understanding that this may happen occasionally, and the offending material will be taken down each time.
I'm looking for suggestions on hosts that have this sort of policy.
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06-13-2005, 03:46 PM #9Web Hosting Master
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jez9999,
It isn't that most wouldn't have the same policy - but how many games are you distributing are actually no longer copywritten?
And how many of them actually have developers that had gone out of business?
I bet it's a very low percentage.
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06-13-2005, 03:57 PM #10WHT Addict
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I understand that you want warning and that you do not want copyrighted material on your website. However, while mistakes do happen, it is your responsibility to research into the "abandonware" you place on your website. If you took a little time into doing that, then there would be far less mishaps and most webhosts would be forgiving of that.
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06-13-2005, 03:58 PM #11Web Hosting Master
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jez9999 the problem is that if the letter goes straight to the datacenter rather than the actual hosting company in question. The datacenter normaly gives them x number of hours to remove the content in question or they disconnect the server. And as far as Layeredtech go, I think its either 2 strikes or 3. After that they disconnect the server.
So just check and make sure the stuff you put on your website is 100% legal and you shouldnt have to worry about copywrite infringement.
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06-13-2005, 04:54 PM #12Senior Tech Consultant
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Just so you are aware, "Abandonware" is NOT a legal definition. It does not mean that the software is free to distribute and is a grey area. It simply means that the original author/distributor of the software has ceased supporting or distributing it, not reliquishing ownership or copyright of it.
Legally, distributing abandonware is same as warez.
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06-14-2005, 05:25 AM #13Junior Guru Wannabe
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Artie: OK. Slo, bluntly, I'm looking for a host that, instead of taking down the entire site because there is a warez file being distributed on it, either give me a warning before taking that file down themselves, or just take that file down themselves, not the whole site and/or my account along with it.
Suggestions? :-)
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06-14-2005, 05:32 AM #14Web Hosting Master
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Even if a software gets abandoned by the developer, it is not open for free distribution unless the authors agrees that it is so. So instead of hosting and then removing contents which infringed copyright laws, why not make all effort to contact the software developers and get them to give you explicit consent to distribute those softwares. If you have the explicit written permissions to do what you want to do, I don't see how anyone could stop you from hosting those.
As a site owner, the onus is on you to host legal contents, it is afterall your site and you have full control over it.
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06-14-2005, 05:40 AM #15Newbie
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i doubt there are any companies that do that, because they need to cover them selfs
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06-14-2005, 08:40 AM #16Junior Guru Wannabe
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eddy: because there are a HUGE number of games that are so damn old that it'll be a cold day in hell before they actually respond to someone about an old game. Try and get in contact with the authors of Mad TV, Arkanoid 1/2 PC, Sopwith, Sokoban... and that's just a few of MANY THOUSANDS i could mention. Sorry, but that's an unrealistic attitude. As I said before, my attitude, which I think is realistic, is that I will take down games from the site upon legitimate request from the copyright holders, but if I were to have to get explicit permission from each writer of each game I posted first, I wouldn't have much of a site. And sorry, no, I don't feel ashamed about what I do. These authors are making precisely zero from their ancient games, I see no good reason why people shouldn't download and play them now.
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06-14-2005, 08:42 AM #17Web Hosting Master
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"if I were to have to get explicit permission from each writer of each game I posted first, I wouldn't have much of a site."
Which makes you a pirate.
Find a new addiction.
They don't make "precisely zero" - but they'll make less if everyone begins stealign them.
The authors still exist, give them credit.
Otherwise I can go along, copy and paste your entire site onto a domain and make your site! I contacted you, it's a cold day in hell and thievery is thievery, nonetheless.
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06-14-2005, 10:34 AM #18Web Hosting Master
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Getting back on topic, you should be able to find a host willing to host your site. The problem, which you are already aware of is whether they will shoot first and ask questions later when they receive a DMCA notice or not.
I would strongly recommend looking around at the different hosts here, and contacting them to see what their policies and procedures are. If you go with a large host, they'll be more likely to be less flexible, since it will be an employee who gets the notice while working support, and who has a set of policies to follow, rather than having authority to make a judgement call.
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06-14-2005, 03:16 PM #19Junior Guru Wannabe
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'Looking around at the different hosts here'? There are thousands of them. Please, give me some advice as to how I should go about this.
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06-14-2005, 03:38 PM #20Senior Tech Consultant
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Originally posted by jez9999
Artie: OK. Slo, bluntly, I'm looking for a host that, instead of taking down the entire site because there is a warez file being distributed on it, either give me a warning before taking that file down themselves, or just take that file down themselves, not the whole site and/or my account along with it.
Suggestions? :-)
Normally, If I find a site with illegal or questionable content, I'll suspend it, email the client and wait for a response. Once they respond and understand the reason it was suspended. I only reenable it once they confirm that there are no second chances. The next offense is immediate deletion of the account and it's contents. (and NO refunds). (and YES, they will be watched like hawks for quite a while...).
I think that's a fair way to handle things.
But, good chance that the upstream will get a complaint and if that happens..well..bye bye.
Btw, eddy, you're OPINION is irrelivant to the LAW. Law is only thing that matters when it comes to running a business. Opinion and a quarter will get you a phone call.Last edited by ArtieFishill; 06-14-2005 at 03:42 PM.
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06-14-2005, 04:38 PM #21Junior Guru
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out of intrest how much space, bandwidth and system resources are you looking to use??
Cheers
Jona
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06-14-2005, 06:25 PM #22Junior Guru Wannabe
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Artie: Sorry, but I disagree with your general attitude. You can look at abandonware games in 1 of 2 ways.
1) If they haven't explicitly been put into the public domain, they're illegal. If everyone treated every aspect of life this way, everyone would be in jail right now. Case in point: speeding. Anyone never done that?
2) If they're about 10 years old, nobody BUYS them anymore, nobody SELLS them anymore, then they should be offered for download unless copyright holder comes along and requests that that game be taken down, at which point THAT GAME is taken down, not the whole site.
As I said, there are those 2 camps. I respect people with the first view, but I don't hold it. People with that view can keep their hosting offers away from me. :-)
JonaY: Probably initiall 1gb space, 30/40gb transfer.
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06-14-2005, 07:00 PM #23Disabled
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you'll be hard pressed to find a legitimate host on here that will host that sort of content.
We operate a very large free web hosting site, and it gets complaints daily for the very same type of content you want to offer. Luckily we own the datacenter so we're not subject to the type of box pulls the others are referring to but coming from the perspective of the abuse department, it's one thing for customers to unknowingly place content on a server (such as free web hosting) that we then have to act on and remove. It's a totally different thing (and possibly legally negligent) for us to knowingly provide you with service in order to distrube warez until you get a warning...
I doubt any reputable host here would host you. Might want to try one of the kiddie hosts offering 10gb space and 300gb transfer for $5/mo I'm sure they don't care what you do
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06-14-2005, 07:22 PM #24Web Hosting Master
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For a website like this always put it in Russia, China, or other country like that.
I find it interesting that Nintendo will have their legal team send DMCA notices for hosted games they havn't put on the market since 1993 (just an example).
Good luck and remember to find a host in a country in Asia or South America.
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06-14-2005, 08:23 PM #25Retired Moderator
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Originally posted by jez9999
Artie: Sorry, but I disagree with your general attitude. You can look at abandonware games in 1 of 2 ways.
1) If they haven't explicitly been put into the public domain, they're illegal. If everyone treated every aspect of life this way, everyone would be in jail right now. Case in point: speeding. Anyone never done that?
2) If they're about 10 years old, nobody BUYS them anymore, nobody SELLS them anymore, then they should be offered for download unless copyright holder comes along and requests that that game be taken down, at which point THAT GAME is taken down, not the whole site.
As I said, there are those 2 camps. I respect people with the first view, but I don't hold it. People with that view can keep their hosting offers away from me. :-)
JonaY: Probably initiall 1gb space, 30/40gb transfer.
The truth of the matter is I doubt any host is going to want to host you. You may be very willing to take down material when asked, but the material you are being asked to take down should not be there in the first place (hence the reason they are asking you to take it down). This would be similiar to me opening up an mp3 site and filling it up with every MP3 file I can find in the world, and then only removing them when the datacenter asked me to. That wouldn't seem quite ethical or proper would it? I don't think it would seem right at all filling up a site with every popular artist there is and then asking hte host to not take down my site, just ask me to remove the files one by one.
The datacenter/host does not want to take a chance on you getting them involved in legal action, and in reality you are not a large enough client to make it worth their trouble. I believe you will be hard-pressed to find any host that puts up with any more than one or two letters asking that the content on your site be removed due to copyright laws.
Look for hosting outside of the US, possibly in Canada, maybe in China, or if you are really serious hit the lottery and start hosting with HavenCo.█ Mike from Zoodia.com
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