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  1. #1

    cost of extra power

    Hi,

    Any of you needed to pay extra for power consumption?

    -What is the usual amount of Amps you get to use per rack?
    -What is a fair price per Amp per month if you want to use more?

    Thanks for your time and effort,

    Onno

  2. #2
    What is your location? I pay quite a premium for extra power in NYC.
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  3. #3
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    A standard rack will include either 15 or 20amp, most will be 20. Extra power will vary from $5 to $12 per amp.
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  4. #4
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    We pay 8/amp @ 10,20 amp intervals. Atlanta.
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  6. #6
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    Originally posted by Jay Suds
    A standard rack will include either 15 or 20amp, most will be 20. Extra power will vary from $5 to $12 per amp.
    By most standards thats pretty cheap. People who are paying for power at < $8/amp are probably either paying less then cost (eg. the DC makes its money elsewhere and simply covers a little extra on your power bill), or are not receiving properly conditioned power.

    Power pricing for additional power depends on a slew of factors. Remember that for every 1A of power you sell, you have to have ~1.25A of cooling capacity available (minimum) to dissapate the heat.

    From my experience, power will generaly run you anywhere from $7 to $25/amp [and thats no joke], depending on the market, the conditioning methods, type of power (ac/dc/voltage), etc. Many will also take into account how much power you want to place in a small location; It costs the DC signifigantly more (per amp) to cool 100A in a rack then it does to cool 40A in a rack (in which case some will pass the costs down to you, whereas with that example, most will simply refuse to provide the additional power, with good reason).

  7. #7
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    I think we pay around $15.00/amp in NYC. I think this is reduced abit as we are already paying for the 1U space which has a switch mounted on each end.

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  8. #8
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    Interesting. I have never been quoted $25 per amp, never anything over $15, actually. $500 recurring for a 20amp circuit is pretty steep.

    At $.05 per kWh, a fully loaded 20AMP circuit (that is, running at 16amps), is going to cost the DC $70, and about $156 after factoring in cooling costs -by my figuring, this is about 1380 kWh of raw power, and and 3105 kWh after factoring in cooling costs. This works out to be roughly $7.80 per amp - this "guestimate" is probably when you get your sub $8 example from.

    Of course, what it really comes down to is the data centers cost for power, which is probably variable and probably impacted by inflation. Personally, I used 1414 kWh lat month, and got dinged $171 (they are a bunch of crooks in CT). It wouldn't suprise me if someone using a million kWh/mo would get much, much better rates than me, though. Power prices are probably quite regional too. As such, it's concivable that some data centers who have similar power utilization could be paying rates that are seperated by $.05 or more per kWh.

    Having said all that, though, a data center would have to be paying some crazy costs to justify $25 per amp for power on a recurring basis, over $.125 per kWh - which is more than I pay as a residential power customer.
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  9. #9
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    Even more interesting. In Connecticut, power for large business is billed per kW of capacity needed, plus an additional fee for on-peak usage per kWh. The whole thing is pretty confusing to me, but 2500 kW of continuous power, or roughly enough power to supply and cool 800 20 amps circuits would cost about (assuming I'm adding this up right) $60,000 per month, or roughly $75 per
    20amp circuit, including cooling costs.

    The 800 figure comes from the fact that it would take approximately 3.1kW to power and cool a 20amp circuit.

    The rates is listed here:

    http://www.cl-p.com/clpcommon/PDFs/o...tes/rate58.pdf

    Of course, it's entirely possible that I'm way off, made some critical math or understanding error .... this has happened before

    If anyone wants to check this for themselves, here's how I figured this:

    - Customer Service Charge: $1909.64
    - Dist Demand Charge: $10300 ($4.12 x 2500)
    - Prod / Trans Demand Charge: $2225 ($.89 x 2500)
    - On Peak per kWh: $2560 (2500 kW is roughly 1.8 million kWh. On peak hours are 320 hours, out of 760 hours per month, or 800K kWh, thus 800K X .0032)
    - Transmission Prod / Trans Demand Charge: $4650 ($1.86 x 2500)
    - Competitive Transition Demand Charge (again): $8175 ($4.27 x 2500)
    - Competitive Transition per kWh Charge: $2340 (1.8 million kWh x $.00130)
    - Conservation Charge: $3654 (1.8 million kWh x $.00203)
    - Renewable Energy Charge: $1206 (1.8 million kWh x $.00067

    Sub Total: $37,019.64

    The only unknowns are the FMCC generation and delivery charges. According to this, http://www.cl-p.com/clpcommon/PDFs/o...ates/fmcc.pdf, this would add another $.01314 in charges to the bill, or $23652. However, I'm not sure if those rates are accurate, since the rates listed on my own bill do not match what's there (I am being much billed less for delivery, and slighty more for generation)

    Sub Total: $23652

    Grand Total: $60671.64
    Cost Per 20 amp, fully cooled: $75.83
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  10. #10
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    You're missing a few things.

    1. Watts == Amps * Volts (to my understanding at least). Thus a 20A circuit can utilize roughly 2.2KW of energy at peak.

    2. UPS conditioning does not output anywhere near the amount of power put into it. Assume 80% efficiency (probably 75 - 85% is a realistic figure, though I may be off), as you have to consider the step-down gear it'll generally go through, also the batteries, line conditioning, etc.

    3. You'll assumedly need about the same amount of power to cool the place. Remember, for every 1A of power, you've got 110W of heat to dissipate. I know 20 ton HVAC's will do around 240k BTU's of cooling, but will also consume in the ballpark of 40A of power in the process. BTU's to watts I'm not too clear on though (which is a critical factor, 'how much is 240k BTU's'. Dont forget some of the other factors that also will inevitably generate heat (lighting, people, sun/windows, etc.).

    4. Floorspace, large AC plants take up a good deal of floor space. S&D has both an AC plant, and a DC plant in the 707 suite (where we are), and combined they take up over 1,000 sqft out of the < 10,000sqft suite. Granted they are geared to provide power to other suites also, but its still a huge chunk of space (in a building where space is at a premium).

    5. Something everyone has forgotten to mention in power costs is the "upfront" assets (which are less upfront then thought), aka the power plants, batteries, and generators. Notably batteries have to be replaced every 3-6 years. And also, last but certainly not least, the Diesel fuel. When the generators do have to kick in (some places far more often then others), there needs to be fuel to push to 'em. Lets not forget this in the equation, as fuel costs $$$.

  11. #11
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    You're missing a few things.

    1. Watts == Amps * Volts (to my understanding at least). Thus a 20A circuit can utilize roughly 2.2KW of energy at peak.
    I based my calculations based on 16 amps of utilization per 20amp circuit, which is 1920 watts. No one is ever going to consistently get much more out of 20amp than that.


    2. UPS conditioning does not output anywhere near the amount of power put into it. Assume 80% efficiency (probably 75 - 85% is a realistic figure, though I may be off), as you have to consider the step-down gear it'll generally go through, also the batteries, line conditioning, etc.
    This is something I didn't consider.


    3. You'll assumedly need about the same amount of power to cool the place. Remember, for every 1A of power, you've got 110W of heat to dissipate. I know 20 ton HVAC's will do around 240k BTU's of cooling, but will also consume in the ballpark of 40A of power in the process. BTU's to watts I'm not too clear on though (which is a critical factor, 'how much is 240k BTU's'. Dont forget some of the other factors that also will inevitably generate heat (lighting, people, sun/windows, etc.).
    I already factored this in, using your factor of 1.25 watts of cooling per 1 watt of consumption. (Oops ... for 16 amps of usage, that works out to be 1920 watts usage, 2400 watts cooling, or 4320 watts per 20amp, not sure where I got 3100 from)


    4. Floorspace, large AC plants take up a good deal of floor space. S&D has both an AC plant, and a DC plant in the 707 suite (where we are), and combined they take up over 1,000 sqft out of the < 10,000sqft suite. Granted they are geared to provide power to other suites also, but its still a huge chunk of space (in a building where space is at a premium).
    Obviously, this is going to cost something. However, I was more interested in the raw power costs.


    5. Something everyone has forgotten to mention in power costs is the "upfront" assets (which are less upfront then thought), aka the power plants, batteries, and generators. Notably batteries have to be replaced every 3-6 years. And also, last but certainly not least, the Diesel fuel. When the generators do have to kick in (some places far more often then others), there needs to be fuel to push to 'em. Lets not forget this in the equation, as fuel costs $$$.
    Again, infrastructure costs are not something I was trying to figure in. They are going to vary considerably site to site, and in most cases can be ammortized over a decade or more.

    So, let's refigure for my math error, and UPS power conditioning. 4320 watts per 20 amp circuit, plus 20% overhead for UPS conditioning (I am trusting you on this one ...), equals 5.184 kW per 20AMP circuit. This will get you 480 20amp circuits.

    At $60K/mo, that would bring the OpEx power costs up to $125 per 20amp circuit, assuming 16amps utilization per circuit, and 1.25 amp of cooling per 1 amp of utilization. OpEx power costs would be $6.25 per amp billed.
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  12. #12
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    Originally posted by porcupine
    You're missing a few things.

    1. Watts == Amps * Volts (to my understanding at least). Thus a 20A circuit can utilize roughly 2.2KW of energy at peak.

    2. UPS conditioning does not output anywhere near the amount of power put into it. Assume 80% efficiency (probably 75 - 85% is a realistic figure, though I may be off), as you have to consider the step-down gear it'll generally go through, also the batteries, line conditioning, etc.

    3. You'll assumedly need about the same amount of power to cool the place. Remember, for every 1A of power, you've got 110W of heat to dissipate. I know 20 ton HVAC's will do around 240k BTU's of cooling, but will also consume in the ballpark of 40A of power in the process. BTU's to watts I'm not too clear on though (which is a critical factor, 'how much is 240k BTU's'. Dont forget some of the other factors that also will inevitably generate heat (lighting, people, sun/windows, etc.).

    4. Floorspace, large AC plants take up a good deal of floor space. S&D has both an AC plant, and a DC plant in the 707 suite (where we are), and combined they take up over 1,000 sqft out of the < 10,000sqft suite. Granted they are geared to provide power to other suites also, but its still a huge chunk of space (in a building where space is at a premium).

    5. Something everyone has forgotten to mention in power costs is the "upfront" assets (which are less upfront then thought), aka the power plants, batteries, and generators. Notably batteries have to be replaced every 3-6 years. And also, last but certainly not least, the Diesel fuel. When the generators do have to kick in (some places far more often then others), there needs to be fuel to push to 'em. Lets not forget this in the equation, as fuel costs $$$.
    I agree completely, especially on #5. The costs of providing power are much more expensive than it would be to get power straight from the power company. You need to consider costs for installing/setting up your circuit, power conditioning/backup measures in place, and the additional cooling capacity needed.

    I'd say anything between $150 and $300 per 20A is normal, the price generally correlates to the quality of power conditioning and cooling.
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  13. #13
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    Additional considerations include:

    1. Harmonics-this effect adds to the inefficience betwwen the power delivered and the power consumed.

    2. Upkeep and maintenance on power equipment including switch gear, UPS, PDU's etc.

    3. capital cost upkeep and maintenance on cooling equipment in addition to power consumed

    4. Generator including very large capital cost, upkeep, maintenance and fuel

    5. Seasonal rates- Summer rates can be 35% to 45% higher

  14. #14
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    we pay 75 ($130 ish) per month for 8 Amps in Redbus2 London
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  15. #15
    I gave an analogy on this yesterday and think it fits well for this thread. I see it as fuel is to the airlines industry. We all know what has happened to fuel prices in the last 2 years. When the airlines gets an increase that raises their costs, but they cant just bump the price of the tickets if the competitors dont or they will be flying empty planes. At some point the market will raise the price.

    One other change in the past 5 years has been the average usage per cabinet. 5 years ago a guy with 10 4U server had a cabinet and it pulled about 10 amps. Today that same computing power is in less than 10U but still pulling 10amps.

    When you ask a provider for the price of power you have to ask them what the circuit includes. UPS? Generator? Temperature of the facility? You want apples to apples.
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  16. #16
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    Originally posted by chrisbyrd
    we pay 75 ($130 ish) per month for 8 Amps in Redbus2 London
    75 in rb2 for 8a
    75 in rb3 for 8a
    280 in rb1 for 8a
    300 in tc1 for 10a
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  17. #17
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    75 in rb2 for 8a
    75 in rb3 for 8a
    280 in rb1 for 8a
    300 in tc1 for 10a


    (all @ 240V obviously, for any US readers )

    I make that to be about $8.59 per Amp in USA terms, for SOV and MER.

    P.S. is it really that much more expensive in HEX?! Bloody hell...
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