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  1. #1

    lunarpages - giving you your space in increments

    i'm leaving lunarpages because i'm quite unhappy about the fine print in their deal.

    but i'd like to know if this particular deal is common practice:

    their shuttle plan advertises it will give you 3gb of space. but the reality is that they will allocate you 1gb, and only when you reach 900mb will they let you APPLY to have another 500mb, then apply for another 500mb and so on.

    they require that all the space you use be related to your website - which sucks if you're hosting images you want to link to in forums like this one, or on livejournal etc...

    i just think this is a real hassle, i signed up 2 years ago and i don't believe that asterisk was there pointing to their tricky TOC, if i'd seen that, i would have taken my business elsewhere.

    otherwise i've had a very good term with them.

    so do other web hosts do this too? only allocating part of what they promised? lunarpages is the first i've heard of. i'd hate to sign to another web host and find they're going to do the same thing to me.

  2. #2
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    It just sounds like they are trying to control their overselling. I've always thought of that method and wondered if any hosts practiced it, because that way once a client starts using a lot of space, you can review all of their files and their account to make sure everything is alright before giving them more. It sounds like it could possibly be a hassle for the customer, but can help the host stop some abuse to some degree.
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  3. #3
    i'm leaving lunarpages because i'm quite unhappy about the fine print in their deal.
    If you actually need that many resources, you are going to have to pay for it.

  4. #4
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    any other issues apart from it, that is downtime , support issues .

    How were they doing??

  5. #5
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    Originally posted by CartikaHosting
    If you actually need that many resources, you are going to have to pay for it.
    You are paying for it. You just don't get what you are paying for unless you ask for it after you have paid for it and then are approved to recieve it. Seems LP is getting worse and not better. It is a shame because at one time they were an excellent host.

  6. #6
    You are paying for it.
    No, you really arent

    You just don't get what you are paying
    You get exactly what you are paying for

  7. #7
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    I think that's a good idea. Helps to prevent people hosting warez and illegal files.
    --

  8. #8
    lou77
    I'm sorry to hear about your plight. It is always important that we read the fine prints as it would have meant if we would park our business here or take it elsewhere.
    It would definitely have a different impact if the host had put it this way:
    1000MB Storage ** additional storage offered at no additional charge but you have to agree that you must 1) be already utilizing 90% storage capacity with the files being stored directly utilized for the website 2) not be utilizing storage capacity for emails 3) must request the increase in writing to [email protected] and 4) agree to have storage increased in 500 MB increments up to the alloted maximum free storage offer. All requests for additional storage are subject to approval.
    instead of this way:
    Up to 3000MB Storage ** accounts come pre established with 1,000 MB of storage. If requesting additional storage offer at no additional charge, you agree that you must 1) be already utilizing 90% storage capacity with the files being stored directly utilized for the website 2) not be utilizing storage capacity for emails 3) must request the increase in writing to [email protected] and 4) agree to have storage increased in 500 MB increments up to the alloted maximum free storage offer. All requests for additional storage are subject to approval.
    One way or the other and you would be hosting or not hosting with them at all.
    Well, I can only say that we can take comfort in the fact that there are many other hosts who are offering 3000MB storage space for the same cost and, without that kind of conditions in fine prints. It's time to take your business to them. Just remember to read the TOS and AUP before signing up.
    Last edited by qoheleth; 06-10-2005 at 03:53 AM.
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  9. #9
    any host planning to make up for overselling by spying on the user and their files is not going to last long. an australian host went this way and went under very quickly.

    this argument of whether i paid for it or not is moot.

    i did pay for it, it cost $7.95 a month i was told that for that i'd get 3gb. I did my reasearch i knew they were reputable. I put in the time and money that got me a fair deal.

    only the host isn't playing fair.

    they advertised 3gb... unlike most users i wasn't looking for prestige, bigger numbers to make me feel bigger. i needed 3gb... i dont need 40gb bandwidth i only use a maximum of 2gb at the moment. i edit videos, i write music and i'm a photgrapher - all big files.

    as for uptime it's what i'd expect. i've never really felt let down, it's never been down for a day. but it's not been 99% uptime and that's fine.

    as for support, they're very fast, but as with many help desks they tend to just give you the answer out of the book ignoring your actual needs. however i've brought up this space issue with them and they've been very responsive and very helpful, however with a closer read of the TOC and comparing it to say.. hostgator, i have to say hostgator is less invasive, more honest and fair to the person paying the money.

    It's all very well to argue that one should pay more. But reputable businesses are setting these prices and the customer will shop around for the better deal. I know that I've payed three times as much and not gotten as good service or uptime as lunarpages.

    but that doesn't mean they can say one thing and do the other. that's bad business and in australia it would get you in some serious trouble with the ombudsman.

  10. #10
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    Sounds like twist on offering 'unlimited'.

    If a Hoster advertises a package but fails to mention (within the package details) that Restrictions apply, then that is false. Although it is common for Hosters to change their Terms of Service, the TOS is meant for everyone in general. Tthey should not hide specific features of any package. And those stupid asterisks supposedly referring to text somewhere else on the page, which is always very, very small print, is a Marketing gimmick that should be outlawed.

    I've not looked at the LP Web site so the above is based on what the TS posted.
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  11. #11
    Originally posted by Rick_E
    I don't see that restriction in the LunarPages acceptable use section of their TOS http://www.lunarpages.com/legal.htm . Am I missing something?

    I've been with LP for a couple of years and think they're pretty good. Their user forum is quite active and usually helpful. http://www.lunarforums.com/
    It is there if you read closely

    4.12 Shuttle accounts come pre established with 1,000 MB of storage. Voyager accounts come with 1,500 MB of storage. Enterprise accounts come with 2,000 MB storage. If requesting the additional storage offer at no additional charge, you agree that you must 1) be already utilizing 90% storage capacity with the files being stored directly utilized for the website 2) not be utilizing storage capacity for emails 3) must request the increase in writing to [email protected] and 4) agree to have storage increased in 500 MB increments up to the alloted maximum free storage offer. All requests for additional storage are subject to approval.

  12. #12
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    Originally posted by Website Rob
    Sounds like twist on offering 'unlimited'.

    If a Hoster advertises a package but fails to mention (within the package details) that Restrictions apply, then that is false...

    I've not looked at the LP Web site so the above is based on what the TS posted.
    Maybe you should read the LP website before you condemn them for not noting it. They do by marking the "Up to 3GB storage" with an asterick on the main page and with two astericks in the features that the 3GB is per their policy.

    lou77 - I'm not going to try to convince you that you are wrong. You have every right to not like the way they do this. It is not disreputable, per se, but it is a customer annoyance that you find unacceptable. You have a right to your opinion. Without changing your mind that the TOS are an annoyance, you have to concede that they don't violate what they actually promise.

    I must say that this is a constant battle of opinions on the matter of what companies should and shouldn't do in advertising. I'm a bit sympathetic to using advertising with fine print only because I see remaining competitive and profitable as an overarching part of their "reliability". If they go out of business because they are not an attractive option to the "common man" then we can praise their service all we want until they fail because they can't compete. I point out very clearly the sites that have premium service and what folks will give up to go it cheaper - people still go to the cheapest option all the time even with the warnings.
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  13. #13
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    i signed up 2 years ago and i don't believe that asterisk was there pointing to their tricky TOC, if i'd seen that, i would have taken my business elsewhere.
    2 years ago they were not offering the same amount of space (it was considerably lower), that asterisk was not there and I suspect the 4.12 clause was not there either.

    If this change in their TOS is not to your liking, you should remember that back then you agreed to this clause (that is quite common in the hosting industry):

    18 AMENDMENT

    Lunarpages may without advance notice amend this Agreement from time to time, and will do so by posting the new Agreement on the Lunarpages web site in place of the old. Each

    and every such amendment shall be become effective immediately for all pre-existing and future accounts.

  14. #14
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    Dan,

    That clause seems pretty common with web hosts. Are you aware of many hosts that don't have that "we can change the TOS from time to time and will post them on our site..."?
    Rich
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  15. #15
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    put a link on your website with a "test file hosting speed 900Mo".
    Put a fake file on your website. This file IS utilize by your website. Continu with a new file and so on...
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  16. #16
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    Are you aware of many hosts that don't have that "we can change the TOS from time to time and will post them on our site..."?
    Actually I don't recall reading a host's TOS that didn't have one, but that doesn't mean there aren't any (or that it is not my memory that fails me).

    Fact is, hosts are almost forced to put that clause there and make it the customer's responsability to review the TOS regularly because it is virtually impossible to let all customers know about such changes.

    Also, making them all reconfirm their agreement would most likely translate into an unreasonable volume of work and problems. Customers not agreeing to it (or not replying) would then have to have their accounts suspended at some point (for failure to agree to the TOS). The customer would then contact the host asking "What happened?".

    The host: "We made some changes to out TOS, notified you to reconfirm your agreement, but never heard back from you."

    The customer: "That's because I never received such notification."

    The host: "We've sent it to you three emails. We the tried to call you and even sent you a letter."

    The customer: "Well, I didn't receive any of those. Why should I believe you that you did all that? You're only doing this to force me to agree to your unfair TOS, that's what you're doing. You're a bunch of incompetents. Scammers!"

    The Host: "We're sorry you feel this way. We really tried our best."

    The customer: "I'm off to WHT to complain about your bad business practices."


  17. #17
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    Originally posted by ldcdc
    Actually I don't recall reading a host's TOS that didn't have one, but that doesn't mean there aren't any (or that it is not my memory that fails me).

    Fact is, hosts are almost forced to put that clause there and make it the customer's responsability to review the TOS regularly because it is virtually impossible to let all customers know about such changes.

    Also, making them all reconfirm their agreement would most likely translate into an unreasonable volume of work and problems. Customers not agreeing to it (or not replying) would then have to have their accounts suspended at some point (for failure to agree to the TOS). The customer would then contact the host asking "What happened?".

    The host: "We made some changes to out TOS, notified you to reconfirm your agreement, but never heard back from you."

    The customer: "That's because I never received such notification."

    The host: "We've sent it to you three emails. We the tried to call you and even sent you a letter."

    The customer: "Well, I didn't receive any of those. Why should I believe you that you did all that? You're only doing this to force me to agree to your unfair TOS, that's what you're doing. You're a bunch of incompetents. Scammers!"

    The Host: "We're sorry you feel this way. We really tried our best."

    The customer: "I'm off to WHT to complain about your bad business practices."


    I don't know if it's the same in United State, but in france, you can change online TOS, without confirmation, only if it's for the advantage of the client!
    For exemple ADSL provider provide 1Mbit, and the next month 2Mbit for all his client. He can update his TOS accordingly.
    Or add service not previously there (TV with ADSL, antivirus etc..).

    For banque, they have to send you a paper, and if you don't refuse the change, changes are automatically accepted.
    But, you can refuse them, and stay with the old one!

    TOS is a contract, and can't be change like that..
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  18. #18
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    The customer: "I'm off to WHT to complain about your bad business practices."
    No kidding.

    I think it's a good idea if you're going to change TOS to actually send out an e-mail but also understand that TOS have to change and it's unreasonable to have to get consent from your customers to do so.

    Hecule - Telecomm stuff like DSL are regulated differently than web hosting is (or even cable internet is). I don't know that there is a rule that says a host couldn't modify the TOS to provide less space and bandwidth. I think a host would be foolish to do so willy nilly because they would lose a lot of customers.
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  19. #19
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    This is for all online TOS.
    Compagnie can choose the old paper TOS...

    A host can modify his TOS, like you can do every illegal activitie you want.. If no one stop you, you can continu!
    But if someone make a lawsuit, the host will loose it...
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  20. #20
    I've never seen anything like that before, so this is a first for me.
    I don't particularly like the bait and switch methods of marketing even though it works for most cases. In your post you already noted that if you had seen the fine print you wouldnt have signed up so I guess that seals the deal. Find a new host and get the space you pay for.

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  21. #21
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    A host can modify his TOS, like you can do every illegal activitie you want.. If no one stop you, you can continu!
    But if someone make a lawsuit, the host will loose it...
    Are you saying that what they do is illegal?

    Then I can only wonder what's with this clause in 1and1's T&C document (http://order.1and1.com/xml/order/Gtc...op&__lf=Static)

    AMENDMENT. 1&1 may without advance notice amend this Agreement from time to time, and will do so by posting the new Agreement on the 1&1 website in place of the old. Each and every such amendment shall be become effective immediately for all pre-existing and future accounts. It is your responsibility to periodically check the 1&1 website for updates of this Agreement.
    Why 1and1? Because I figured that, given their size, unlike many hosts, they can afford to hire the services of highly qualified lawyers.

    That said, it would be indeed very interesting to find that this clause won't hold in a court of law.

  22. #22
    I think the part of "1&1 may without advance notice amend this Agreement " can be found in all online terms that written by profissional.

    just I wonder of what commesion-junction-hosts do to keep their profits, they lowered their prices to point that they will not be able to pay their affiliates if they go lower than that, then they start to do increase their packages like crazy (I wonder how many webmasters really need 1 and 2 gb space!) to the maximum of acceptable over-selling, then when all solutions are used, they start to work in fine-print tricks like limit the traffic per day (you will pay if you used more than the allowed per day even if you within your monthly limit and now give the space in increments which means before asking for more space, you must read their TOS, optimize your account and be ready to pass their questions

  23. #23
    I believe 1&1, just like many other hosts, would also have perfectly good reason to include this clause in their TOS:
    14.3. SEVERABILITY. If any term, clause or provision hereof is held invalid or unenforceable by a court of competent jurisdiction, such invalidity shall not affect the validity or operation of any other term, clause or provision and such invalid term, clause or provision shall be deemed to be severed from the Agreement.
    I do not know but from what I understand of Contracts and Torts, any amendments to an agreement can only be effected with the consent of all parties to that agreement, and not unilaterally. Otherwise, it defeats the purpose of entering into any agreement and what would be the basis for any court to deliver a proper judgment? We could easily end up with this sort of senario: aggrieved party is taking the defendant to court tomorrow for breach of contract ... defendant quickly amends the contract tonight ... judge looks at the amended contract and finds no fault with defendant ... aggrieved party, not wishing to be outdone, amends the agreement again and hauls the defendant to court again and ........... that's enough.
    Last edited by qoheleth; 06-12-2005 at 12:51 PM.
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  24. #24
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    Ok first of all sadly , it was your mistake, read the tos first before you jump into any ship, believe me do it, second of all i think they are doing the correct thing, it's in there tos so it ain't illegal, now if they refuse to allow you more space for your website then that's illegal, that's my 2 cents.


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  25. #25
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    2) not be utilizing storage capacity for emails
    Hmmm..... and what about those of us that use IMAP for our e-mail?!



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  26. #26
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    Hmmm..... and what about those of us that use IMAP for our e-mail?!
    Do you keep say 500mb worth of emails on the server?

  27. #27
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    500mb?Each normal emails is less then 5k lol .
    That would be almost impossible to use.


    CellShade.

  28. #28
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    Dan,

    Actually, more - my mailspool is probbably ~ 1GB or so by now.
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  29. #29
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    Actually, more - my mailspool is probbably ~ 1GB or so by now.
    Wow! You make me wonder how common it is for people to keep so many emails on the server...

  30. #30
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    Originally posted by ldcdc
    2 years ago they were not offering the same amount of space (it was considerably lower), that asterisk was not there and I suspect the 4.12 clause was not there either.

    If this change in their TOS is not to your liking, you should remember that back then you agreed to this clause (that is quite common in the hosting industry):
    I think this is key. You are paying the same now you were 2 years ago. 2 years ago they offered 500 (maybe 750?) MB, now they are offering "up to" 3GB and you are complaining? At the least, you've received 2x the resources you received when you signed up. Seems like you are simply looking for a reason to complain

    As for the actual idea behind the plan, it's going to work on the idea that almost nobody can justify 3GB and be within the TOS.

  31. #31
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    Originally posted by ldcdc
    Wow! You make me wonder how common it is for people to keep so many emails on the server...
    Well. I think it's common for anyone that uses many computers throughout the course of the day and wants all of his e-mail to be accessible to him at all times? (I guess that's part of the appeal of IMAP and web-based e-mail services, like GMail.
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