Results 1 to 25 of 42
-
06-09-2005, 11:04 AM #1Web Hosting Master
- Join Date
- Mar 2003
- Location
- Atlanta, GA
- Posts
- 3,419
"Love" in action and victims of ex-gay brainwashing
Saw this on another forum. I had to post it here. Unbelievably disgusting and cruel in so many ways. I can't believe organizations like this exist... and that there are people so heartless as to support them.
--Cut out bad language to be pasted on this board---
This is "Love in Action," an anti-gay camp for teens to find Jesus and change their sinful sinful ways.
And these are the thoughts of a 16 year old boy, who doesn't want to be a part of it, who came out to his parents only to be thrown into the program with the ultimate goal of brainwashing out the gay.
The camp rules are posted, and it's just ----ing sick. It's brainwashing, it's child abuse, it's ----ing INSANE and I wish that it was illegal so these ----ed up misguided ---holes he calls mom and dad could be locked away for attempting to emotionally DESTROY their child.
Just because you wrap it up in bible quotes doesn't mean it isn't intended to harm. The entire goal of this brainwashing scheme is to take away what matters most. No communication with any friends, no keeping a journal, no "false images" that could at all remind you or relate to your previous (read: happy) life, no physical contact with anyone aside from polite professional handshakes.
These cruel sick ----s think that it's ok to take a CHILD, a ----ing child who says NO and break him, mess him up mentally and emotionally until he is weak and powerless, crush his soul and leave an empty sad shell of a person that they can implant their BULL---- anti-gay rhetoric in and send on his way.
They're going to murder him. They're going to kill everything that made him who he was. I hope his parents and everyone brainwashing kids in this sick cult ----ing roast.Ask about custom logo design! :: TalkSka.com - Your source for Ska News and Forums. Join today!
AIM=IQPhat
MSN=xshare101@hotmail.com
EMAIL=Use the board's email system, please.0
-
06-09-2005, 11:10 AM #2Web Hosting Master
- Join Date
- Mar 2005
- Location
- England
- Posts
- 1,200
That is just wrong. He is only young!
Custom Cloud Solutions - innoix.com
0
-
06-09-2005, 11:19 AM #3Retired Moderator
- Join Date
- Oct 2004
- Location
- San Francisco, CA
- Posts
- 2,455
Disgusting that something like this even exists...And as Bakie said too young
Tyler Cole
Eeek, a Blog0
-
06-09-2005, 11:49 AM #4Web Hosting Master
- Join Date
- Mar 2003
- Location
- Duluth MN
- Posts
- 3,863
While I agree with the premise for it, I disagree with the execution of it.
I think that they go a little too far with everything. We are not supposed to judge, thats God's job. Rather than forcing this on them, it should be voluntary, teach them the Bible, and let them make their own decisions. If they don't want to do it, they don't have to.
I like the way MN Teen Challenge works. It is a similar program like this one, only focuses more on drug and alchohol abuse. I have quite a few friends whose lives have completely turned around after going to Teen Challenge (many of which voluntarily went there to get clean). And we're talking about hardcore crack addicts being clean almost cold-turkey.0
-
06-09-2005, 11:53 AM #5Web Hosting Master
- Join Date
- Jul 2004
- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Posts
- 2,132
Originally posted by amish_geek
While I agree with the premise for it, I disagree with the execution of it.
I think that they go a little too far with everything. We are not supposed to judge, thats God's job. Rather than forcing this on them, it should be voluntary, teach them the Bible, and let them make their own decisions. If they don't want to do it, they don't have to.
I like the way MN Teen Challenge works. It is a similar program like this one, only focuses more on drug and alchohol abuse. I have quite a few friends whose lives have completely turned around after going to Teen Challenge (many of which voluntarily went there to get clean). And we're talking about hardcore crack addicts being clean almost cold-turkey.
What do you mean by saying - "I agree with the premise for it"
JordOur greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall. - Confucius0
-
06-09-2005, 12:02 PM #6Web Hosting Master
- Join Date
- Jul 2001
- Location
- UK
- Posts
- 2,567
That is shocking.
I cannot believe that his parents would be so cruel. Whether they agree or disagree with homosexuality is their problem. They shouldn’t force him to go through such pain and suffering.
Some people…0
-
06-09-2005, 01:06 PM #7Web Hosting Master
- Join Date
- Mar 2003
- Location
- Duluth MN
- Posts
- 3,863
Originally posted by effusionx1
I should assume that you feel drug and alchohol abuse is similar to homesexuality then.
What do you mean by saying - "I agree with the premise for it"
Jord
We're all sinners. I sin, I've lied, I've stolen, I've lusted after a woman (committed adultury). I've hated (committed murder in my heart).
Having homosexual tendency or thoughts is a temptation. Acting on those thoughts is a sin. Just like I can be tempted by a beautiful woman, to act on those thoughts, by fantasizing/lusting after her, or actually doing an act outside of marriage, is a sin.
There are differences between being tempted, and actually committing a sin.
So a person who struggles with homosexuality, or faces homosexual temptations, is no different than me struggling with similar temptations towards women at a beach on a hot day. They just need help dealing with those temptations.
For someone who calls themself a homosexual, meaning they actually stepped forward and delved into the temptation, then that is a sin, and the person should repent.
So yes, to answer your question, I would consider a practicing homosexual the same.0
-
06-09-2005, 01:11 PM #8Web Hosting Master
- Join Date
- Oct 2002
- Location
- New York's Capital District
- Posts
- 2,198
Originally posted by effusionx1
I should assume that you feel drug and alchohol abuse is similar to homesexuality then.
What do you mean by saying - "I agree with the premise for it"
JordKnow It All Solutions Incorporated
Web Design, Web Development and Web Hosting0
-
06-09-2005, 01:49 PM #9Web Hosting Master
- Join Date
- May 2005
- Location
- Woking, England
- Posts
- 1,401
The stupid thing is, in the bible it says homosexuality is wrong...but then in the next chapter it says disobedient children should be stoned to death!! I don't think there is wrong with homosexuality...but that's just me.
garr, I really hate them now, this picture is a thumbnail size on their site...no link to it, other than if you use the ff right click thing.
http://www.loveinaction.org/media/im...nt%20Cross.jpg
Bandwidth is a non-renewable energy that we need to conserve....Web Handyman - Website and Internet Marketing Service0
-
06-09-2005, 01:55 PM #10Disabled
- Join Date
- Mar 2003
- Location
- Canada
- Posts
- 9,851
Sorry, but why are these right wing religious nuts concentrating in wife beaters and killers and things that are actually destructive?
The hypocrisy of these people is pathetic. Preach tolerance as long as you are tolerating what they decide you can tolerate.0
-
06-09-2005, 01:56 PM #11Web Hosting Master
- Join Date
- Mar 2003
- Location
- Atlanta, GA
- Posts
- 3,419
Originally posted by amish_geek
A sin is a sin is a sin.
We're all sinners. I sin, I've lied, I've stolen, I've lusted after a woman (committed adultury). I've hated (committed murder in my heart).
Having homosexual tendency or thoughts is a temptation. Acting on those thoughts is a sin. Just like I can be tempted by a beautiful woman, to act on those thoughts, by fantasizing/lusting after her, or actually doing an act outside of marriage, is a sin.
There are differences between being tempted, and actually committing a sin.
So a person who struggles with homosexuality, or faces homosexual temptations, is no different than me struggling with similar temptations towards women at a beach on a hot day. They just need help dealing with those temptations.
For someone who calls themself a homosexual, meaning they actually stepped forward and delved into the temptation, then that is a sin, and the person should repent.
So yes, to answer your question, I would consider a practicing homosexual the same.
BTW: How would they be abstinent until marriage if you don't allow them to marry?
btw, about this camp:
"But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea" — Jesus (Matthew 18:6, NASB)Ask about custom logo design! :: TalkSka.com - Your source for Ska News and Forums. Join today!
AIM=IQPhat
MSN=xshare101@hotmail.com
EMAIL=Use the board's email system, please.0
-
06-09-2005, 02:10 PM #12Nothing to see move along.
- Join Date
- Jun 2003
- Posts
- 1,739
Originally posted by amish_geek
A sin is a sin is a sin.
We're all sinners. I sin, I've lied, I've stolen, I've lusted after a woman (committed adultury). I've hated (committed murder in my heart).
Having homosexual tendency or thoughts is a temptation. Acting on those thoughts is a sin. Just like I can be tempted by a beautiful woman, to act on those thoughts, by fantasizing/lusting after her, or actually doing an act outside of marriage, is a sin.
There are differences between being tempted, and actually committing a sin.
So a person who struggles with homosexuality, or faces homosexual temptations, is no different than me struggling with similar temptations towards women at a beach on a hot day. They just need help dealing with those temptations.
For someone who calls themself a homosexual, meaning they actually stepped forward and delved into the temptation, then that is a sin, and the person should repent.
So yes, to answer your question, I would consider a practicing homosexual the same.
Its only a sin to those that are religeous, you are so you see it as a sin i'm not so to me its nothing a non event if someone is a homosexual then the only person they have to answer to is themselves who on earth am i to say that it is wrong.
So you see your putting your own views on things that do not concern you.0
-
06-09-2005, 02:45 PM #13Retired Moderator
- Join Date
- Nov 2002
- Location
- WebHostingTalk
- Posts
- 8,901
YAGT... (yet another GAY thread!)
I think the idea is pretty sick.....
SiriusI support the Human Rights Campaign!
Moving to the Tampa, Florida area? Check out life in the suburbs in Trinity, Florida.0
-
06-09-2005, 04:00 PM #14Web Hosting Master
- Join Date
- Mar 2003
- Location
- Duluth MN
- Posts
- 3,863
Originally posted by phill2003
Ahh but there is one fundemental flaw in your whole 'A sin is a sin is a sin' argument.
Its only a sin to those that are religeous, you are so you see it as a sin i'm not so to me its nothing a non event if someone is a homosexual then the only person they have to answer to is themselves who on earth am i to say that it is wrong.
So you see your putting your own views on things that do not concern you.
You don't have to believe in the Bible, and I'm not going to force you to. I will tell someone about Jesus and the Bible, and I'll pray for them. But if they don't want to have anything to do with it, thats fine, I'll let them be. My concience will be clear when I stand before God at the great white throne on judgement day.
God gave mankind a freewill. People are free to choose God, should they desire to do so. The Bible clearly states what will happen to those that go their own way. And God will let them go their own way, and let them learn from their mistakes on judgement day.0
-
06-09-2005, 04:19 PM #15Web Hosting Master
- Join Date
- Jun 2001
- Location
- Denver, CO
- Posts
- 3,302
Originally posted by amish_geek
A sin is a sin is a sin.
We're all sinners. I sin, I've lied, I've stolen, I've lusted after a woman (committed adultury). I've hated (committed murder in my heart).
Having homosexual tendency or thoughts is a temptation. Acting on those thoughts is a sin. Just like I can be tempted by a beautiful woman, to act on those thoughts, by fantasizing/lusting after her, or actually doing an act outside of marriage, is a sin.
There are differences between being tempted, and actually committing a sin.
So a person who struggles with homosexuality, or faces homosexual temptations, is no different than me struggling with similar temptations towards women at a beach on a hot day. They just need help dealing with those temptations.
For someone who calls themself a homosexual, meaning they actually stepped forward and delved into the temptation, then that is a sin, and the person should repent.
So yes, to answer your question, I would consider a practicing homosexual the same.
People choose to do drugs, just the same way you choose to be religious. People don't choose to be gay. You can't take the gay out of someone.Jay Sudowski // Handy Networks LLC // Co-Founder & CTO
AS30475 - Level(3), HE, Telia, XO and Cogent. Noction optimized network.
Offering Dedicated Server and Colocation Hosting from our SSAE 16 SOC 2, Type 2 Certified Data Center.
Current specials here. Check them out.0
-
06-09-2005, 04:22 PM #16Web Hosting Master
- Join Date
- Jul 2004
- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Posts
- 2,132
Originally posted by amish_geek
I see it as a sin, because the Bible says it is a sin. I believe in the Bible.
You don't have to believe in the Bible, and I'm not going to force you to. I will tell someone about Jesus and the Bible, and I'll pray for them. But if they don't want to have anything to do with it, thats fine, I'll let them be. My concience will be clear when I stand before God at the great white throne on judgement day.
God gave mankind a freewill. People are free to choose God, should they desire to do so. The Bible clearly states what will happen to those that go their own way. And God will let them go their own way, and let them learn from their mistakes on judgement day.
If they are also sinners (the website owners), what makes them more capable of providing ' spiritual support' to those that do not neccassrily seek it? What qualifies them to do that?
If we are all the same, why write an article about homesexuals?
As for you believing in the Bible - I will not challenge that as that is your belief.
From what I understand they say that anyone who submits to temptation has no place in heaven. Does this not mean that no human will be in heaven?
The article loses total respect for me because of one main fact:
They use imperatives throughout
Not once do they open a question for thought or selfr-contemplation, not once do they cross-reference and analyse their own beliefs in the article.
Some examples:
There is no such creation as a "gay"modern American culture has bought into a lie!
Would they consider the reality of placing ones entire belief in a book with such off-handed mannerisms?
Thay say that everyone must repent; how does one repent exactly? By holding ones hands together and looking to the sky asking for forgiveness? I'm not saying thats wrong, i'm just challenging it - just like I question my own beliefs.
I could go on but I will not. I think the general point has been made.
Relgious individuals do not seem to self-question the beliefs they hold. I would ask them to do this more than they question others. I think I question my belief readily and with an open-mind as much as is possible.
Would the world not be better if they stopped judging homosexuals and went about with a greater understanding of the modern world and of modern people.
Would the world not be better if they stopped preaching to homosexuals and went about stopping all the wars they have started.
I think so.
Thanks,
JordOur greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall. - Confucius0
-
06-09-2005, 04:51 PM #17Web Hosting Master
- Join Date
- Jul 2001
- Location
- UK
- Posts
- 2,567
The stupid thing is, in the bible it says homosexuality is wrong
Ahh but there is one fundemental flaw in your whole 'A sin is a sin is a sin' argument.
Its only a sin to those that are religeous, you are so you see it as a sin i'm not so to me its nothing a non event if someone is a homosexual then the only person they have to answer to is themselves who on earth am i to say that it is wrong.
I see it as a sin, because the Bible says it is a sin. I believe in the Bible.
Classing oneself as a homosexual doesn’t mean you’ve had sex with other people of the same sex (which some argue the Bible says is a sin), it simply means you’ve accepted that you don’t have any feelings for people of the opposite sex.0
-
06-09-2005, 05:01 PM #18Web Hosting Master
- Join Date
- Mar 2003
- Location
- Duluth MN
- Posts
- 3,863
Originally posted by effusionx1
I think I understand your points Amish and I most certainly respect them. However, do you not see it as naive that this company/website has chosen to isloate homosexuals as an example?
If they are also sinners (the website owners), what makes them more capable of providing ' spiritual support' to those that do not neccassrily seek it? What qualifies them to do that?
If we are all the same, why write an article about homesexuals?
As for you believing in the Bible - I will not challenge that as that is your belief.
I don't see it as naive, as that would imply cluelessness towards anything else. As I said in my original post, I agree with the premise, not the execution. Now, using this as an example, not necessarily equating it as equal. If one were to look at homosexuality as a problem, or disorder, similar to how say alchoholism is a problem, or disorder, then you look at resolving it through support groups and counseling.
I believe my statement was not put as best as it could have been. It is more about classification and treatment, rather than actually equating homosexuality to a drug addiction. They are not the same, other than the fact that both have temptations, and both have actions, and both can be treated (fixed?) in similar fashions through guidance and counseling.
From what I understand they say that anyone who submits to temptation has no place in heaven. Does this not mean that no human will be in heaven?
Thankfully, God send his Son Jesus to earth, to live as a man, commit no sin, and then die the worst possible death. To be crucified on the cross as the worst of criminals are. Jesus's death absolves us from our sin, but only if we freely accept that gift of salvation.
But accepting Jesus's gift of salvation doesn't make one sinnless, but hopefully it will help you to sin less.
The article loses total respect for me because of one main fact:
They use imperatives throughout
Not once do they open a question for thought or selfr-contemplation, not once do they cross-reference and analyse their own beliefs in the article.
Some examples:
They say homosexuality is a wrong mindset.
Would they consider the reality of placing ones entire belief in a book with such off-handed mannerisms?
Thay say that everyone must repent; how does one repent exactly? By holding ones hands together and looking to the sky asking for forgiveness? I'm not saying thats wrong, i'm just challenging it - just like I question my own beliefs.
I could go on but I will not. I think the general point has been made.
Relgious individuals do not seem to self-question the beliefs they hold. I would ask them to do this more than they question others. I think I question my belief readily and with an open-mind as much as is possible.
Would the world not be better if they stopped judging homosexuals and went about with a greater understanding of the modern world and of modern people.
Would the world not be better if they stopped preaching to homosexuals and went about stopping all the wars they have started.
I think so.
Thanks,
Jord
I firmly believe that the Bible teaches us to love one another. I have a problem with that, as there are some people I know who I have a VERY hard time showing love towards. Yet I still do my best to try to show love towards them.
I also believe that it is not my duty to convert someone, nor force them to change. I will however, share my faith and belief. I will also ask them if they would care to study the Bible, or discuss spiritual things. I love talking to people of other religions, and chat a lot with some of the foreign students here at college to learn about their beliefs. And as they share with me theirs, I share with them mine.
I'll share Jesus with people, but I let people find Jesus's truth themselves, and let them make the choice to follow him.
-----
I know we got off topic here a bit. Perhaps if this thread of discussion is to continue, we should open up a new thread.0
-
06-09-2005, 05:25 PM #19Web Hosting Master
- Join Date
- Dec 2000
- Location
- The Woodlands, Tx
- Posts
- 5,974
Originally posted by Jay Suds
People don't choose to be gay. You can't take the gay out of someone.
There was a "theory" that there "might" be a gene that "might" make someone gay (or straight). The gay community took that little excerpt from the scientific community and presented it to the world as fact. Anyone who believes it has been severely mislead, and tend to be naive enough to believe anything they hear, and pass it on to other naive people as fact.
Typical.....but then, I have done the same on other matters too, so am just as guilty of the naive part.. but THIS is one I know better on...0
-
06-09-2005, 05:46 PM #20Web Hosting Master
- Join Date
- Jul 2004
- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Posts
- 2,132
Originally posted by amish_geek
I know we got off topic here a bit. Perhaps if this thread of discussion is to continue, we should open up a new thread.
I suppose it was all loosely connected though.
JordOur greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall. - Confucius0
-
06-09-2005, 05:48 PM #21Web Hosting Master
- Join Date
- Jul 2001
- Location
- UK
- Posts
- 2,567
Talk about being brainwashed....here we go again. Once again, there is NO scientific proof people are born gay OR straight. The gay community would like you to think so, and they have accomplished in making most people believe the proof has been given, when in reality it hasnt.
There was a "theory" that there "might" be a gene that "might" make someone gay (or straight). The gay community took that little excerpt from the scientific community and presented it to the world as fact. Anyone who believes it has been severely mislead, and tend to be naive enough to believe anything they hear, and pass it on to other naive people as fact.
Typical.....but then, I have done the same on other matters too, so am just as guilty of the naive part.. but THIS is one I know better on...
In a previous topic Sirius talked about how he is gay, and has been ever since he can remember. The exact same goes for myself. You’re not gay, and scientists haven’t found anything on either side of the debate yet – but we know because we are gay.
I don’t want this topic to go off topic, although there is more evidence to prove that homosexuality isn’t a choice.0
-
06-09-2005, 06:02 PM #22Retired Moderator
- Join Date
- Nov 2002
- Location
- WebHostingTalk
- Posts
- 8,901
Originally posted by Anjay
How do you know that you haven’t been brainwashed to believe that homosexuality is a choice?
In a previous topic Sirius talked about how he is gay, and has been ever since he can remember. The exact same goes for myself. You’re not gay, and scientists haven’t found anything on either side of the debate yet – but we know because we are gay.
I don’t want this topic to go off topic, although there is more evidence to prove that homosexuality isn’t a choice.
I love the knuckleheads who post, "Being Gay is a choice!". Coming from a presumably straight person, that's great logic. Really.
Someone, anyone, prove to me where I made a choice to be gay? Someone... anyone... hello.... anyone...?
SiriusI support the Human Rights Campaign!
Moving to the Tampa, Florida area? Check out life in the suburbs in Trinity, Florida.0
-
06-09-2005, 07:09 PM #23Web Hosting Master
- Join Date
- Dec 2000
- Location
- The Woodlands, Tx
- Posts
- 5,974
Originally posted by sirius
I'm gay? I thought I just liked shopping... and decorating my home... and my partner of 10+ years... oh yeah, wait, I am gay.
I love the knuckleheads who post, "Being Gay is a choice!". Coming from a presumably straight person, that's great logic. Really.
Someone, anyone, prove to me where I made a choice to be gay? Someone... anyone... hello.... anyone...?
Sirius
Everything a person turns out to be is cause and effect. Even whether or not you are smart or dumb by society's perspective. What if a dumb back woods person who hunts for a living grew up in an area with educated people who dont believe in harming animals? Would he be the same person? I doubt it.
It's all cause and effect. Nothing forces you to be gay. Nobody forces me to be straight. Personal life experience tells me it was not how I had to be, that I could choose how I wanted to be. Or I could have used the silly and stupid scapegoat "I was born that way". Life is about choices, you can be who and what you want to be. I have no problem with people being gay, I have a problem with the excuses they think they have to come up with for being the way they are. I know severely handicapped people who dont even use that excuse, and they have a REAL reason to do so..
Quit crying and making excuses, and just live your life the way you want to. Dont worry about what others think, and you dont have to use that untruthful excuse..0
-
06-09-2005, 07:24 PM #24Disabled
- Join Date
- Mar 2003
- Location
- Canada
- Posts
- 9,851
The cause and effect theory is complete crap.
It's the small minded and insecure who need a nice convenient explanation like that to make them sleep better at night with their own inadequacies.
Why do people who believe homosexuality is a life choice refuse to listen to the facts? Why do they refuse to comprehend that there is no logic in choosing a gay lifestyle when people would know they face persecution?
The only cause and effect is that some people were brought up wrong and don't have the ability to think for themselves and are not able to accept what they can't comprehend.
No different than racism.0
-
06-09-2005, 07:27 PM #25Web Hosting Master
- Join Date
- Dec 2000
- Location
- The Woodlands, Tx
- Posts
- 5,974
Originally posted by blue27
Why do people who believe homosexuality is a life choice refuse to listen to the facts? Why do they refuse to comprehend that there is no logic in choosing a gay lifestyle when people would know they face persecution?0