Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 68
  1. #1

    * A host is right most of the times ??

    A host is right most of the times ??

    I know that there are two sides to a story and I know one should try to be in both the party's shoes.
    And I know one should have faith and trust in hosts.

    A host is right [ ?? ] when he says that the customer is wrong
    but how does the customer proof he is right ?? Eg. in some cases like


    # bad script

    the hosts blame a script for eating up system resources : how does a customer prove if he is right ?


    # service staff he was utlizing is no more, the service he was getting is no more suddenly

    the host says a handful of clients were asking too many questions and getting too stressful - so just sells of those customers without any notice - how does the customer prove that they were not really stressful or that they needed to be told about that frankly when that was happening ?


    # system resource

    what hosts says is final, how does customer know the truth ?


    # this issue and that

    customers are bound to accept that host is right - they cannot obviously go to court, sometimes they are bashed in a forum
    - what do they do ?

    This is not with all hosts though, luckily ... but what to do with those who have these issues ?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Northern VA
    Posts
    1,582
    I don't know. I think any good IT service provider knows he is right a good majority of the time but tries to make the customer feel good about the fact that they are wrong and works around it. It's been my experience, not as a web hosting user but as an information systems service provider, that the customer usually feels they are right. It has also been my experience that help desk people start to get tired of dumb questions and start treating people in a way they should not be treated and one must be constantly vigilant to keep them treating the customer nice even when they are acting dumb.
    Rich
    Husband, Father, Retired Marine, Geek

  3. #3

    Re: A host is right most of the times ??

    Originally posted by mahut
    A host is right most of the times ??

    I know that there are two sides to a story and I know one should try to be in both the party's shoes.
    And I know one should have faith and trust in hosts.
    Man, you just don't get it, do you.

    A host is right [ ?? ] when he says that the customer is wrong
    but how does the customer proof he is right ?? Eg. in some cases like
    The customer doesn't "prove" he's right.

    # bad script

    the hosts blame a script for eating up system resources : how does a customer prove if he is right ?
    Irrelevant. If the host says the script as is isn't right for their servers, there's no "proving" anything. I'd like to see just how much you'd be bitching about someone else's scripts killing a server where you had a site. Or would you be just as magnanimous with that server as you appear to be with everyone else's, knowing zip about the particulars? I bet you wouldn't be.


    # service staff he was utlizing is no more, the service he was getting is no more suddenly

    the host says a handful of clients were asking too many questions and getting too stressful - so just sells of those customers without any notice - how does the customer prove that they were not really stressful or that they needed to be told about that frankly when that was happening ?
    Excuse me? Just where in the hell do you get off suggesting that hosts - or any other business owners - can't make decisions about how the day to day running of a business is affecting them without the clients telling them how they should be stressed/overworked or not? Give me a break.


    # system resource

    what hosts says is final, how does customer know the truth ?
    Irrelevant. The only thing that matters is how the host views it and the steps they take to make sure ALL of their clients have the best experience possible. If someone wants to know how their scripts run when they've been told by a host what's happening, they can jolly well spend the money and get their own server.


    # this issue and that

    customers are bound to accept that host is right - they cannot obviously go to court, sometimes they are bashed in a forum
    - what do they do ?

    This is not with all hosts though, luckily ... but what to do with those who have these issues ?
    What in the world are you talking about? FIND ANOTHER HOST. Gee, that was simple, wasn't it.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    EU - east side
    Posts
    21,920
    The issue is not that the customer must accept the host is right; the customer already agreed and accepted that the host is right on these matters when he agreed to the TOS. In other words, he agreed to trust the host's fairness. If you don't trust your host, then you definitely need to move to one that you can trust.

    In any case, convincing another party that they're wrong and you're right is generally futile (the host vs the customer), unless you talk about mathematics.

  5. #5
    >> FIND ANOTHER HOST. Gee, that was simple

    when we have a problem with a car or a tv or a refrigerator we simply find another one



    >>he accepted that the host is right on these matters when he agreed to the TOS

    really ??



    >> unless you talk about mathematics

    I did not quite get the analogy, however payments received are mathematics, services received are 'arts' with its fractional beauties ( payment always 100 %, services can vary between 85 % or 95% and 99% )


    >> he agreed to trust the host's fairness

    what happens when she or he is sure that the host has not been fair and there has been breach of trust/fairness

    thanks for the inputs
    regards

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    EU - east side
    Posts
    21,920
    Sorry for the hard to understand analogy. What I was trying to say that unless you deal with fixed rules (not open to interpretation) it's generally impossible to convince someone that he's wrong and you're right. Think of someone attempting to make you change your religious beliefs (or lack thereof, whatever may be the case).

    what happens when she or he is sure that the host has not been fair and there has been breach of trust/fairness
    Technically there can be no breech of trust on the matter of resources in a shared environment. The cusotmer agreed that the host is 100% trustable on these matters. Also, the host has access to the ultimate tools to evaluate the situation, while the customer does not.

    Ultimately the customer (rightfully or not) may think he's being fooled and may tell the host: "Good bye. I don't think my site is using that many resources so I'll go with another host."
    Last edited by ldcdc; 06-07-2005 at 11:56 PM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Posts
    1,211
    Originally posted by mahut
    >>he accepted that the host is right on these matters when he agreed to the TOS

    really ??


    >> he agreed to trust the host's fairness

    what happens when she or he is sure that the host has not been fair and there has been breach of trust/fairness
    Quote 1 -- Yes, really.

    Quote 2 -- Good luck at that, it's much much easier to just leave. Saves everyone time, and a lot of effort.
    Automated Tendencies - Brand Management Agency from Baltimore, Maryland.
    Reputation Management • Search Engine Optimization • Pay Per Click • Email Marketing

  8. #8
    the host is never right in my personal opinion

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Posts
    1,211
    Originally posted by aloo
    the host is never right in my personal opinion
    Do you have any kind of story or anything associated with this, or are you just going to leave it at that?
    Automated Tendencies - Brand Management Agency from Baltimore, Maryland.
    Reputation Management • Search Engine Optimization • Pay Per Click • Email Marketing

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    EU - east side
    Posts
    21,920
    the host is never right in my personal opinion
    And there lies the problem. Many customers have that same thought process, yet they agree to a TOS that states the opposite. If you cannot agree to it, then don't. Nobody forces anyone to do it.

    Then again, how many customers take the time to read the TOS in the first place?

  11. #11
    Originally posted by mahut
    >> FIND ANOTHER HOST. Gee, that was simple

    when we have a problem with a car or a tv or a refrigerator we simply find another one
    Bzzzt. Bad analogy alert. Try again. This one does not fly. Those are goods. Hosting is a service.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    1,141
    Originally posted by ReasonSinger
    Bzzzt. Bad analogy alert. Try again. This one does not fly. Those are goods. Hosting is a service.
    Yeah, that analogy doesn't really work. Web hosting is a service, not a consumer good, so you can't really compare the two, its like comparing apples to oranges. Also most people pay for web hosting monthly, so its not like paying $500 for a TV, when you may only be paying $10 a month for hosting.
    Daily Updated Web Hosting News Blog
    Including an RSS feed that you can syndicate!
    Daily Updated Web Hosting News Blog
    Unlimited vs. Unmetered bandwidth

  13. #13
    >> Those are goods. Hosting is a service

    Goods do not provide service ?
    Many goods can be purchased on monthly installments.
    We have problem with bank service, laundry service, mobile service - we just simply change without a wink



    >> unless you deal with fixed rule

    I thought the rules in TOS are fixed



    >> Quote 1 -- Yes, really.

    Really really ???


    >> host has access to the ultimate tools to evaluate the situation

    Give the poor client some access too as ultimately he pays


    >> the host is never right in my personal opinion - aloo

    LOL@ aloo - who said that ?


    >> Technically no breech of trust on matter of resources , cusotmer agreed that the host is 100% trustable

    How ? Where ? When ?
    some like micfo ( unless they updated it ) has no mention of sys resource in TOS , many others have vague mentions or vague parameters - agreeing to something vague is vague itself and creates vague grounds



    >> how many cusotmers take the time to read the TOS in the first place?

    not sure , but when she or he has done that in depth, what happens when she or he is sure that the host has not been fair and there has been breach of trust/fairness or breach of TOS ??
    Last edited by mahut; 06-08-2005 at 12:18 AM.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    EU - east side
    Posts
    21,920
    -Once you say agreee the host's decision is final, there's no turning back unless you change hosts.

    -That's micfo's issue. I was talking about the majority of that that I read the TOS of. I can't claim all hosts are the same.

    -There are reasons why customers are not given full access to the server. That's one of the reasons why shared hosting is good only for some people. If you want full access then a dedicated or perhaps even VPS will suit your needs.

    I thought the rules in TOS are fixed
    They are, but as you know, even though the legal system is "fixed", different people find ways to understand it differently at times (arguably, one of the parties consciously or unconsciously chooses to see things differently, despite what reason may dictate).

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,379
    not sure , but when she or he has done that in depth, what happens when she or he is sure that the host has not been fair and there has been breach of trust/fairness
    or breach of TOS ??
    Then the customer leaves. As mentioned above, it's that simple. Maybe a better analogy would be a cellphone provider. If your current provider breaches your trust or does something you don't think is right, you probably switch to another provider.

    How ? Where ? When ?
    some like micfo ( unless they updated it ) has no mention of sys resource in TOS , many others have vague mentions or vague parameters - agreeing to something
    vague is vague itself and creates vague grounds
    Usually it specifies in the TOS, either a percentage, or it says at the host's sole descression. In the latter case, it means the host is always right, since it is in the host's descression whether or not the customer uses too much resources.

  16. #16
    >> Once you say agreee the host's decision is final

    Client agrees that host's decision is final when the decision is proper
    When he is sure that it is improper ( and for example , has prepaid for 2 years ) , what does he do ? So , does it mean in such cases, host is always right


    >> reasons why customers are not given full access to the server

    Who wanted full access ? Just access to how the system resource is measured , access to the reports / the exact pathways what made the host beleive that

    >> Then the customer leaves it's that simple

    what does he do when he or she has prepaid for months or years ??? just simply leave ?

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,379
    That's why everyone repeatedly says people shouldn't pay for more than a month at a time unless they trust the host. There's really nothing you can do if your host says your site is taking up too much resources.

  18. #18
    >> everyone repeatedly says people shouldn't pay for more than a month

    said where ? so it means the fault is with the client or customer
    the host is right

    [ one example - host was good for last year > trusted > prepaid for another two years > services go downhill or breach of trust / TOS or I am just sold off by host at end of six months of two years with absence of all promised services - what to do ? ]



    >> There's really nothing you can do i

    that again means the host is right



    The topic of the thread was "A host is right most of the times ?? "

    - time to remove the question marks or change 'most' to 'all' ...
    Last edited by mahut; 06-08-2005 at 01:27 AM.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    EU - east side
    Posts
    21,920
    By agreeing to the TOS the customer in effect agrees that the host is right on certain matters "by default", and thus there can be no actual dispute.

    It does not mean that the host will (in truth) be always right, but it means that the host's opinion and decision will always prevail, may it be right or wrong.

    As a customer, one is free to look for a host that has a TOS that he can agree to, or go with a hosting solution that gives him certain guaranteed resources.

    and for example , has prepaid for 2 years
    Tough luck. You see, I started a one year contract with a mobile company. The contract had clearly defined end date; you see, the service could've been apalling, yet I would still have been required to pay till the end of the year, despite my intense wish to change providers.

    I could though sign another contract with another company and pay the two bills in parallel: one of which I had no need for anymore.

    Anyway, some hosts will give a prorated refund, but to be sure you'll get one, before you signup, you should make sure this is clearly stipulated in the TOS.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,379
    said where ? so it means the fault is with the client or customer

    Read the posts in this forum where people are giving negative feedback about their host. The OP says he/she has paid in advanced for a few months or a year of hosting, and now after a month or two the support or service has gone downhill. There are many such threads.

    Anyway, in the end the host knows their servers better than the customer, and so is a better judge of when sites are using too much resources or not.
    Last edited by EfreeZe; 06-08-2005 at 01:32 AM.

  21. #21
    >> >> Read the posts in this forum - Zapx

    did you read that bit in skyblue ?


    >> decision will always prevail, may it be right or wrong. - Idcdc

    You mean wrong can prevail over right ? Good point


    >> has prepaid for 2 years >> Tough luck

    when such is luck , we leave all to fate ? or something can be done ? or just accpet host is right


    >> you should make sure this is clearly stipulated in the TOS.

    in the light of recent experiences can some one or this board make a standard questionarri as to what points to be looked in TOS - those that do not have them answered properly can among be those that are/will be discarded

  22. #22
    Then again, how many customers take the time to read the TOS in the first place?

    About the same amount of time people read EULAs.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    EU - east side
    Posts
    21,920
    You mean wrong can prevail over right ?
    Yes, because you agree to assume that risk when you agree to the TOS.

    when such is luck , we leave all to fate ? or something can be done ? or just accpet host is right
    The options of the potential customer are stated in my previous post.

    in the light of recent experiences can some one or this board make a standard questionarri as to what points to be looked in TOS
    It is up to each individual to read, understand, and decide if he can agree to all the clauses in the TOS of a particular host. Many people have absolutely no trouble agreeing to terms that others can't agree to. This goes for all other contracts that a man/woman has to sign throughout his/her life.

  24. #24
    >> You mean wrong can prevail over right ? Yes




    >> It is up to each individual to read, understand, and decide

    true . I meant can some kind hearted soul make a list of topics/question to look into TOS ?, as TOS appears to be the most unstandardized stuff with many vague and sketchy things at least in hosting


    >> Many people have absolutely no trouble

    Democracy is protecting minority. Help those who have trouble.


    >> absolutely no trouble agreeing to terms that others can't agree

    Considering how HOSTs themselves cannot agree as to certain stuffs like 'selling' and 'over'selling [ ref : the just closed thread ] and how they fight with each other, some people will sure have trouble as to which TOS-host combination to accept


    >> The options of the potential customer are stated in my previous post.

    any other options ?

  25. #25
    Basically, mahut, if you don't like yoru host you move one. Simple. The host OWNS the servers, this is not a democracy where the client gets a vote. If the host says that a site is using too much resources, that's all there is too it. If the client doesn't like it, there's the door....

    Most hosts are NOT going to pick a client out of the air and then start telling them that there site is a problem for absolutely no reason. Get realistic. We have 10000000 other things to do then deal with making up crap.

    I've come to the conclusion that you are totally clueless on what goes on one the other end of the connection.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •