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  1. #1

    Hosting company holding my friend hostage

    Hi guys,

    I don't know if this is the right forum for this, but I'll give it a try. I have a friend who has an adult site which requires a membership. Someone either hacked into the site, or a member decided to post a user name and password all over the internet, and because of this, thousands of people logged on which caused her bandwidth to go way over what was paid for. Now, the hosting company is holding her responsible for the charges, and has blocked her site from her members and is holding her site hostage.

    Now..I have two questions.

    1) Is she responsible for this money, and does she have any recourse due to the way that her site was accessed.

    2) Shouldn't the hosting company have some sort of failsafe system? For instance, I know many companies have a system where if a user name and password are used a certain number of times per hour, it sets up a red flag and that user is blocked. Does the hosting company share any type of responsibility for this situation?

    Any help would be appreciated.

  2. #2
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    Unfortunately for your friend she is fully responsible for the overage. Passwords leak all over the internet for adult sites and it's part of the business. Paying for a system that tracks logins is your friend's responsibility and is certainly not something the host would be responsible for (unless they advertise that they do that).
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  3. #3
    GeneB, she could bring forth the charges to the client who's username was given out.

    As for the failsafe system, its your friends job to implement the correct security procedures for those accessing her site. In a way she is to blame due to her not doing anything to prevent such things in the first place. She's learned from her mistake and now hopefully she'll setup a php authentication where a user cannot login more than x times per a certain period.

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  4. #4
    In my opinion this is a complicated situation.

    1) Yes she is responsible for the website.

    2) If your on about suspension and unsuspension of accounts, then you are right. Many companies do suspend accounts of a limit is made to a certain account.


    I personnally would just suspend the account once limit is up. Then contact person instantly both my email and telephone.
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  5. #5
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    This would be the total responsibility of client, not the host.

  6. #6
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    Re: Hosting company holding my friend hostage

    Originally posted by GeneB
    Now..I have two questions.

    1) Is she responsible for this money, and does she have any recourse due to the way that her site was accessed.

    2) Shouldn't the hosting company have some sort of failsafe system? For instance, I know many companies have a system where if a user name and password are used a certain number of times per hour, it sets up a red flag and that user is blocked. Does the hosting company share any type of responsibility for this situation?
    We don't do "adult" so it's a bit out of my league but:
    (1) Yes, I can't see why not, see part 2
    (2) No, That's her fault. It's her site and her set up for member's & usernames, passwords, etc. So it would be her responsibility to have built the site with any "fail safes" such as login per hour restrictions or something that would "red flag" her if accounts were behaving suspiciously.

    The only exception I might think of was if this was some type site that she didn't really build...one of those "own your own adult site, make big $$" type deals. And in that case while you might say they should have had protection she should have been careful what she was getting involved with. Adult sites generate lots of bandwidth, hosts charge for bandwidth (especially overage) and "adult" hosting is a world of it's own so TOS etc. is unique to that world.
    Bottom line is if she built the site and the methods for user access it was her baby to watch out for or restrict "bad" logins. The host is just providing the space, and while a non-adult host would have probably suspended the account when it went over or sent some notice before piling up overage charges, in the "adult" business more bandwidth would usually mean the site owner was making more money so they would be more likely to let it run over...

    Just my thoughts, like I said we don't do "adult".
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  7. #7
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    Re: Hosting company holding my friend hostage

    Originally posted by GeneB

    Now..I have two questions.

    1) Is she responsible for this money, and does she have any recourse due to the way that her site was accessed.
    The web host can't possibly be responsible for how she runs her web site. Nor can they know the situation are you outlined is the case or true, and you can't blame them. For whatever reason, as far as they are and can be aware, she went over her allotted bandwidth and should pay for it. It's her site and her responsibility.

    2) Shouldn't the hosting company have some sort of failsafe system?
    That is not a server-setting, but something the site owner must design or implement, not the web host.

    For instance, I know many companies have a system where if a user name and password are used a certain number of times per hour, it sets up a red flag and that user is blocked. Does the hosting company share any type of responsibility for this situation?
    No, it'sabsolutely not the web host's responsibility, but the webmaster of the site in question. It's up to that person to implement any sort of features to detect and block accounts that generate too many requests from too many different IPs, for example.

  8. #8
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    If there was previous knowlege that there would be bandwidth taken up like crazy then the best thing to do would be to ask the company to hold the account until the next month or until more transfer was paid for. They shouldn't use something like that against the person but I will say that it was your friends fault.

  9. #9
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    Gene,

    I have to agree with everyone here. She is absolutely responsable for her site. The only way I see that she might have any recourse, is if a hacker gained access to her user file due to a security patch missing on the server. That would be the hosts responsability (to keep the server patched up to date). However; this does not sound like the case here.

    She should obviously cancel and close the offending user account if she can prove he/she distributed the access info. As has been mentioned, this is not uncommon in the adult industry. As has also been mentioned, she can set up a PHP Sessions script so this does not happen again.

    Definately not the hosts issue though.
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  10. #10
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    On the technical side, pass this along to her.

    Record the IP of the session, and only allow one session per user, and one ip per session, then limit it to 3 ip's per day maybe (let them browse from home, work, and the coffie shop )

    Just some thoughts on specifics that could be done to prevent this in the future.
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  11. #11
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    Read the web host's TOS/AUP.

    Personally, anyone perverted enough to setup an adult website deserves anything they get. They should have to pay extra money just for existing for ruining people's minds/relationships/etc. Maybe the host will terminate the account and delete all files and maybe your aberrant friend won't have a backup.

  12. #12

    Re: Re: Hosting company holding my friend hostage

    Originally posted by Tim_Greer
    The web host can't possibly be responsible for how she runs her web site. Nor can they know the situation are you outlined is the case or true, and you can't blame them. For whatever reason, as far as they are and can be aware, she went over her allotted bandwidth and should pay for it. It's her site and her responsibility.


    No, it'sabsolutely not the web host's responsibility, but the webmaster of the site in question. It's up to that person to implement any sort of features to detect and block accounts that generate too many requests from too many different IPs, for example.

    I agree 100%. Prime example of why you should be nice to your hosting company
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  13. #13
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    Re: Hosting company holding my friend hostage

    Originally posted by GeneB
    Now..I have two questions.

    1) Is she responsible for this money, and does she have any recourse due to the way that her site was accessed.
    Yes she is, tell her to break out the credit card and pay for the bandwidth -her site- used.

    2) Shouldn't the hosting company have some sort of failsafe system? For instance, I know many companies have a system where if a user name and password are used a certain number of times per hour, it sets up a red flag and that user is blocked. Does the hosting company share any type of responsibility for this situation?
    The hosting company doesn't and probably shouldn't monitor who is logging into her site. If they start throttling stuff and they throttle REAL traffic then your friend is gonna scream bloody murder about them "slowing her site down" sort of a can't have your cake and eat it too.

    Your friend should code her site so it disallows a login to be used from more than say, 5 ips in say, a 24 hour period, give or take of course. It's your friend's responsibility to secure her site from crap like this, not the host's.

    Suck it up, pay the overages, learn from it, and improve the site so it doesn't allow one login to be used from dozens of ips is my suggestion.
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  14. #14
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    If she doesn't want to pay overage fees in the future, she could ask the host to suspend her site once she reaches her transfer limit. On the other hand, I'm not sure how the paying members of her site will like to see the site down though...

  15. #15
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    Originally posted by ldcdc
    If she doesn't want to pay overage fees in the future, she could ask the host to suspend her site once she reaches her transfer limit. On the other hand, I'm not sure how the paying members of her site will like to see the site down though...
    Good point. A hosting provider should offer some alternatives, such as "Do you want us to throttle or limit the bandwidth usage" and "do you want us to allow you to go over and pay X amount of dollars for usage fees if you do, or suspend the site until next month or unless you decide to pay overage fees".

  16. #16
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    Yes we always give people the option to "suspend at limit" which should limit overages to only a little bit, stats run daily so it's possible to go over a few gigs of course but at least it won't sit there for 3 weeks chewing up gig after gig of overages.

    That's always an option I suppose.
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    resident grumpy redneck

  17. #17
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    Originally posted by LBX
    Read the web host's TOS/AUP.

    Personally, anyone perverted enough to setup an adult website deserves anything they get. They should have to pay extra money just for existing for ruining people's minds/relationships/etc. Maybe the host will terminate the account and delete all files and maybe your aberrant friend won't have a backup.
    Internet sites don't ruin relationships or minds or etc. People do that to themselves. People are the root of their own undoing. To blame other people, things, etc, just means that people aren't able to see their own faults and failures and rise above them.

    Be careful of what you wish on others. Things you throw out into the universe have a weird way of coming back on you. Perhaps your host could terminate all of your accounts and delete all of your files, and regretfully you won't have a backup. That would be a sad thing. I hope it doesn't happen to you.
    Last edited by MMMedia; 06-03-2005 at 09:08 PM.

  18. #18
    depending on the rules she said she agreed to then it depends on those circumstances if it wasnt in the rules then no.No hosting company should hold a site hostage I know I wouldnt.But if she agreed to the terms before she signed up then yes it probally would make her liable

  19. #19
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    The high potential for this sort of problem (a lot of overage charges due in a very short time) is why a lot of hosts don't allow adult content. Also, morally speaking, some clients will be either offended or concerned about attacks and attempts to compromise the server they are on, if there's a huge traffic site, such as an adult web site, and I don't blame them for that concern. Besides, you should (if you weren't already) host such sites on a dedicated or collocation service, not a shared/reseller or VPS system. So, then overage charges and this entire situation, had it been a dedicated/colo server, is more than absolute in regards to responsibility of the client (yes, more than absolute . :-)

  20. #20
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    Originally posted by LBX
    Read the web host's TOS/AUP.

    Personally, anyone perverted enough to setup an adult website deserves anything they get. They should have to pay extra money just for existing for ruining people's minds/relationships/etc. Maybe the host will terminate the account and delete all files and maybe your aberrant friend won't have a backup.
    Someone needs to crawl down off that high horse before they encounter a low hanging branch...
    Gary Harris - the artist formerly known as Dixiesys
    resident grumpy redneck

  21. #21
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    Someone needs to crawl down off that high horse before they encounter a low hanging branch...
    Now that's a vivid picture!

  22. #22
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    Originally posted by LBX
    Personally, anyone perverted enough to setup an adult website deserves anything they get. They should have to pay extra money just for existing for ruining people's minds/relationships/etc. Maybe the host will terminate the account and delete all files and maybe your aberrant friend won't have a backup.
    I think that you're being highly judicial and sterotypical without have ever even meeting the person. Adult websites are a business, that help people make money. I doubt that he's going around taking pictures of girls in locker rooms with his cell phone without their permission and putting them up, I would consider that perverted. I really don't think that you should be so judical and harsh towards people, because you don't agree with the type of business that they're in.
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  23. #23
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    Originally posted by MMMedia
    Be careful of what you wish on others. Things you throw out into the universe have a weird way of coming back on you. Perhaps your host could terminate all of your accounts and delete all of your files, and regretfully you won't have a backup. That would be a sad thing. I hope it doesn't happen to you.
    I don't have a web host so that would be kind've hard.

    Originally posted by HostingInsider
    I think that you're being highly judicial and sterotypical without have ever even meeting the person. Adult websites are a business, that help people make money. I doubt that he's going around taking pictures of girls in locker rooms with his cell phone without their permission and putting them up, I would consider that perverted. I really don't think that you should be so judical and harsh towards people, because you don't agree with the type of business that they're in.
    I'm glad that I'm being judicial. Pornography is the same as soliciting s*x in the real world and should be dealt with in the same manner. It should be illegal. Anyone that makes money off of that is wrong and pretty sick in the head.

  24. #24
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    Originally posted by LBX
    I don't have a web host so that would be kind've hard.

    I'm glad that I'm being judicial. Pornography is the same as soliciting s*x in the real world and should be dealt with in the same manner. It should be illegal. Anyone that makes money off of that is wrong and pretty sick in the head.
    WWJS?

    Isn't there a passage about not judging others? Let he who is without sin cast the first stone, that sorta thing.
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  25. #25
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    Originally posted by Dixiesys
    WWJS?

    Isn't there a passage about not judging others? Let he who is without sin cast the first stone, that sorta thing.
    "Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. Because of these, the wrath of God is coming."

    "For everything in the world—the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does—comes not from the Father but from the world. The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever."

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