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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    74

    eNom has lost their minds!

    I'll start by saying that I made a huge mistake by allowing somebody else to have access to my enom reseller account. Do not do this. Ever.

    Here is the story. I'm going to leave names and businesses out of this because this is a personal conflict between me and this other person, and I am not one to attempt to give his business a bad name because of this.

    I opened an enom reseller account around 5 years ago...

    About a year after I opened the account I gave access to somebody else who was also starting up in the hosting industry. This was somebody that I have talked to for a few months, seemed like a nice guy. I wanted to do him a favor and gave him access to my account. This was before they started offering the ability to create sub-reseller accounts.

    2 years ago , due to family problems, I gave control of my domains to this person and temporarily stopped doing buisness. The agreement was that he could still use the account since they have already established a business model around it. Everything was fine up to this point, and he fully understood that I would be reselling again in the future and would be using the account again.

    About 3 months ago I contacted this person asking for either access to the account, or that we worked together to file the paperwork to make the account his and that I would only use a subreseller account that I create before closed shop. A couple of weeks (and emails) went by with no response, until I threatened to contact eNom. He then informed me that a family member passed away and that he would contact me later that week.

    I never heard back from him.

    I contacted him a couple weeks ago and asked if things have calmed down yet, and requested that we settled this manner. He never replied.

    Saturday I sent an email to enom briefly explaining the situation to them. I asked for the password to be reset.

    eNom had a long holiday weekend. Tuesday morning they suspended the account. Guess who emails me? Thats right... this person who has seemed to have such a hard time replying to my emails wants to know why he can not log into the eNom account.

    Finally the fraud department at eNom replies to my email asking me what the original password was and how long I have not been able to log into my account. I reply with the correct answers.

    eNom contacts me again saying that they don't buy my story. They accuse me of selling my account.

    So I reply to that email with more details, pretty much saying what I have typed above.

    I offered to fax in copies of my drivers licence that they have on record, my new drivers licence, a copy of my social security card, and my incorperation documents that match the account user name. (keep in mind that I already provided them with the original password for the account, as they requested).

    I also suggested that we file the appropriate paper work to allow this guy to continue using this account if they would move the subreseller account I create a couple years ago directly under eNom (so it would no longer be in my original reseller account) and I would use that one.

    here is they reply:

    "Sorry.. I can't help you unless you provide me a copy of the
    contract between <edit name> and yourself. If there is no written agreement, I'm afraid you have lost the account. "

    Ok, there are some problems with this solution they have come up with. They have my name on record as the account owner. They have pictures of my drivers licence. They have my signature on the contract that belongs to the account. If anything fraudulent happens with this account I am going to be in a pretty difficult situation.

    And why even bother asking for the original password if they aren't going to do anything about this once I give it to them?

    I can understand the business decision they have made. They want the person who has been filling the account funds up for the past couple of years to continue pumping money into their bank account. Fair enough, just tell me that. But eNom, please don't try to insult my intelligence by telling me that *I* need to provide a written agreement or I have lost my account. It seems that this other guy should be required to provide a written agreement saying that the account was given or sold to him in order for him to keep this account.

    Don't get me wrong, I am not placing the blame entirely on eNom. I made the ignorant mistake of giving this guy access to my account. I put myself in this situation. I also am aware of the problem enom is having with people selling accounts, so I can understand why they quick to assume that I have done that.

    So right now I am trying to get eNom to send me something offical saying that I am not responsible for anything that happens with this account. I'll keep you updated.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    895

    Re: eNom has lost their minds!

    Originally posted by MasterGee79
    [B]I'll start by saying that I made a huge mistake by allowing somebody else to have access to my enom reseller account. Do not do this. Ever.
    We already know not to...


    This person has in effect stolen your account and you DONT want to tell us who they are!!!!!!

    Somethings out of place!
    I could tell you a joke about UDP. But I'm not sure you would get it!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    74

    Re: Re: eNom has lost their minds!

    Originally posted by Dan541
    We already know not to...


    This person has in effect stolen your account and you DONT want to tell us who they are!!!!!!

    Somethings out of place!
    Dan,

    Thanks for making me feel even more ignorant than I did before I posted this. Much appreciated.

    I see no reason to give out any names, I'm sorry if that seems out of place for you.

    Thanks for adding to the discussion!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    1,915
    When I signed up as an ETP I had to sign an agreement. I kept the orginal since it was an important document in my mind. Do you not have anything or was this a retail account?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    London
    Posts
    522
    Here is what I conclude from all this:

    Supposedly you have a car that you lend it to another person for two years. This other person gets this car registered by his name so anytime he is stopped by the police randomly or for a ticket, he is not charged for the car being stolen as it is not.

    After two years he was supposed to return the car but he didn't. You immediately contact the police/court and tell them about the whole thing and they take the car in custody until the whole thing is resolved.

    1. Since the car is registered in the other person's name the court ask you for any proof that you have been using the car in the past. You give them enough information to prove it.
    2. The court then ask you if you have been using the car before and why do you want it back? was it stolen? was it sold to the other person? You answer neither as there was a verbal agreement between you and the person was supposed to return it.

    The court does not believe you. Why?

    (a) If you would have sold the car there wouldn't be any written agreement even then.
    (b) If there was a verbal contract then its not enough to get the car back because the case is extremely similar to the car being sold to someone and if there is a situation like yours where a person lends something for a few days a written agreement is required for proof.
    (b) The *other* person doesn't need to show the agreement because the car is still registered in his name and not yours.

    So what can you do about the whole thing in your situation? IMO, you should contact that other person and ask him to say "Yes there was an agreement and I was supposed to give the car back after a specified period." Unless there is something admitted by the other person you may not be able to get your account back.
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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Kuwait
    Posts
    10,573
    how come you updated your account contact info at eNom and gave him control?

    i thought ETP accounts aren't transferable nor sellable!

    or wasn't it an ETP account?



    btw do you still own domains at that account or what?
    Bashar Al-Abdulhadi - KuwaitNET Internet Services Serving customers since 1997
    Kuwait's First Webhosting and Domain Registration provider - an ICANN Accredited Registrar

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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    74
    Originally posted by mdadnan
    Here is what I conclude from all this:

    Supposedly you have a car that you lend it to another person for two years. This other person gets this car registered by his name so anytime he is stopped by the police randomly or for a ticket, he is not charged for the car being stolen as it is not.

    The only problem with your anology is: The account was never "registered" in his name. The truth is, I tried to do this for him months ago, but for some reason he didn't want to reply to my emails. I even suggested to enom to do this, and to transfer the subreseller account that I created to an ETP account. They think that just giving him the account is a better option

    Originally posted by Bashar
    how come you updated your account contact info at eNom and gave him control?

    i thought ETP accounts aren't transferable nor sellable!

    or wasn't it an ETP account?
    It was a ETP account. I don't understand your first question though. I never updated my acount info at enom, it has always stayed the same since it was opened.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    9,037
    Enom havent lost their minds, im afraid I will have to be blunt... this was all your fault and enom cannot necessarily help you.
    Matt Wallis
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  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Kuwait
    Posts
    10,573
    so its your account under your name at eNom, yet enom doesn't want to help you?
    Bashar Al-Abdulhadi - KuwaitNET Internet Services Serving customers since 1997
    Kuwait's First Webhosting and Domain Registration provider - an ICANN Accredited Registrar

    Twitter: Bashar Al-Abdulhadi

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    74
    Originally posted by Bashar
    so its your account under your name at eNom, yet enom doesn't want to help you?
    Thats correct.

    Originally posted by UH-Matt
    Enom havent lost their minds, im afraid I will have to be blunt... this was all your fault and enom cannot necessarily help you.
    I agree that this whole situation is my fault. I don't agree that enom can't help me. They are asking me to prove that I didn't sell or give away my account. How exactly am I supposed to do that?

    The contract they have on record for that account has my signature on it. They have a copy of my driver's licence.

    They are pretty much assuming that I sold this account and are not willing to help.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    89
    I do agree that it is a frustrating experience.

    But I do stand on Enom's side being that most of the domain (I believe) are registered via 'that mysterious person'. So those proof that you have did not justify that you did not sell your account (in fact not supposed to). So hard for them to prove you innocent.

    I believe the only way out (or probably what Enom can do) is that you register a new reseller account and get those domains registered by your name to be transferred over. Other than that, I bet blame yourself for your good will but sorry to hear your mishaps.

    Business world has no mercy. So beware the next time

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    3,109
    I agree that this whole situation is my fault. I don't agree that enom can't help me. They are asking me to prove that I didn't sell or give away my account. How exactly am I supposed to do that?

    I would turn it around. Once you provide eNom with documentation that you are the Owner of the account (at least at one time) then have eNom provide you with documentation as to why you cannot get access to your account. This should also verify you are no longer responsible for the account. Once they provide this, you now have court verifiable documentation as to why you are no longer responsible for anything to do with the account. This presumes that is your goal.
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  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    74
    Thanks for the comments. I've had a good 24 hours to really try to put things in prespective.

    You know, I really don't want to cause this business any grief. He has an established buisness that is using this account. Him losing access to it would hurt him far more than me losing the account will hurt me.

    I tried to help somebody who I thought was a friend make a start in the hosting industry. Sure, I had some concerns that this may happen someday. I went against my better judgement and granted him access anyway.

    I try to think about what I would do if I was in his shoes. He doesn't want to give me access to an account that has 4 years worth of domain registrations in it. He is making the decision I should have made years ago.

    I still fill like he should make an attempt to work with me to find a resonable resolution. I have been trying to get him to do this for months now.

    While I don't respect what he has done here, I can't help but respect how sucessful his business has become.

    All I want right now is my name off the account. I do not want to be linked to it in any way.

    Somebody above said it best. "Business world has no mercy. So beware the next time". Don't trust anyone.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    The Big Easy -New Orleans
    Posts
    341
    Originally posted by MasterGee79
    They are asking me to prove that I didn't sell or give away my account. How exactly am I supposed to do that?
    Just a thought... ask them if they would take a notarized affadavit that you did not sell it to the other person. It sounds like they are wanting something to cover their butts... If you offered something tangible maybe they might be willing to work with you. The affacavit might just be enough for them to remove themselves should the other party try to take action against them.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    464

    Re: eNom has lost their minds!

    Originally posted by MasterGee79
    Fair enough, just tell me that. But eNom, please don't try to insult my intelligence by telling me that *I* need to provide a written agreement or I have lost my account. It seems that this other guy should be required to provide a written agreement saying that the account was given or sold to him in order for him to keep this account.
    I will have to agree with MasterGee79. Essentially, from what i gather, you have title to the account and its domains, but do not have possession.

    It is just like lending your car to someone with your name on the car registration but don't have possession to the actual asset.

    Therefore, if the other person attempts to change the account information to his/her own, that amounts to theft since you never acutally transferred title to him/her.

    If the domains in the account (or if the account itself is of value to you) I would suggest contacting an attorney and filing a claim to recover the domains and damages against enom and the person who currently controls the account. Because, unless you have otherwise contracted to sell the domains (or account), you should continue to remain its owner despite the fact that it may be "stolen".

    I can understand the business decision they have made. They want the person who has been filling the account funds up for the past couple of years to continue pumping money into their bank account.
    It doesn't mean that just because someone is using my car and filing up my car with gas and doing maintenance on my car that the car belongs to that person. If that is the case, all the car leasing and rental companies will therefore lose their cars.
    Last edited by A|J; 06-02-2005 at 12:09 PM.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    1,915
    MasterGee79, for what it is worth IMHO there are 2 things against you:
    1) the secondary market of buying and selling eNom reseller accounts has put eNom in a defensive posture.
    2) this person has been refilling the account via CC, check, or wire for two years now and I would say that is a very big strike against you.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    4,377
    The car analogy isn't quite right. The other party has grown the business substantially over the past 2 years & probably feels that MasterGee now wants to waltz in and benefit from or take over his hard work.
    I don't understand why the current operator doesn't accept MasterGee's proposal that "we work together to file the paperwork to make the account his and that I would only use a subreseller account that I create before closed shop."
    To me the current operator's hesitancy only makes sense if there is $$$ involved and "work together to file the paperwork" includes a sale price.

    Maybe we don't have the full story & all will depend on the original owners objective.
    To get the reseller account back?
    Get back into reselling under a different name?
    Get initial capital back?
    Share in the existing business?
    Get his original domain clients back?
    Get compensation? Sell the account to the current operator?


    BTW: Who owns the domain name?

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    74
    virginia,

    There is no alternative motive here. My hands are pretty much tied and all I want now is for eNom to send me something saying that the account is now officially his and not mine. As it stands right now if some fraudulent happens with the account I am responsible.

    Sure, if something bad enough happens that lands me in a courtroom I can provide the emails between eNom and myself showing this situation. Would it hold up in court? Maybe, maybe not.

    I'm not going to take eNom's word for it though. They can fax/mail me something official saying that this other guy is the account owner now and that I am not responsible for anything that happens to it, or I am going to bug the heck out of them until they do that.

    For the life of me I can not understand why eNom isn't even willing to do that. I am going to assume that they feel like if they do that people will see it as an open door to transfer accounts and they will have continue providing these types of documents. All I can say to that is tough luck. If eNom is going to go against it's own policy and allow transfer this ETP account to somebody else, they better send me something official saying that they have ok'd it.

    My next step will be to contact the BBB and FTC.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Pineville, LA
    Posts
    10
    Enom does not seem to be the one at fault here....sorry to say!

  20. #20
    How can you guys say it's not Enom's fault. The account is in Gee's name, therefore it is Gee's account, peroid. There should be no discussion on that.

    A better anology to this would be I lend my car to a friend (while it is in my name) to a friend because I'm going into the military. After 2 years I come out and want my car back. I call my friend and write him letters but he dosen't respond to give my car back. I call the police and ask them to help. Well they say they can't help because my friend has been using my car and putting gas/repair money into it even though the car is in my name.

    I believe some people are so blindly loyal sometimes it is disgusting, yet these same people would be screaming if the situation had happened to them.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    74
    Originally posted by RossH
    How can you guys say it's not Enom's fault. The account is in Gee's name, therefore it is Gee's account, peroid. There should be no discussion on that.

    A better anology to this would be I lend my car to a friend (while it is in my name) to a friend because I'm going into the military. After 2 years I come out and want my car back. I call my friend and write him letters but he dosen't respond to give my car back. I call the police and ask them to help. Well they say they can't help because my friend has been using my car and putting gas/repair money into it even though the car is in my name.

    I believe some people are so blindly loyal sometimes it is disgusting, yet these same people would be screaming if the situation had happened to them.
    Finally, some support. Thank you for reading through all of this with an open mind instead of assuming that I am up to something.

    But, to be fair, this could have all been avoided if I had just made better desicions years ago and not gave this man access to my account. In that respect, it is my fault.

    What I am irritated at is eNom's unwillingness to help. Here are the suggestions that they have declined:

    I had setup a sub-reseller account before I lost access to the ETP account. This is a $6.95 account that I still have access to. I suggested that they move this sub-account and turn it into an ETP account. I would use this sub-account, and would work with the other guy to file the appropriate paper work to make the original account officially his.

    I suggested that they create this other guy his own reseller account and push the funds/domains into the new account, then return the account to me.

    When they declined both suggestions I simply asked for them to send me a document on company letterhead stating that I am no longer responsible for the account. They won't even do that!

    I wonder what happens if a stolen credit card is used to fund the account? They are allowing somebody to use the account that hasn't agreed to their TOS, has never signed a contract with them, and they have no proof of idenity. This is why it is so important to me to have something official saying that I am no longer responsible for what happens to this account. Somehow the "Legal" department at eNom doesn't understand that.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Mesa, AZ
    Posts
    25
    Can you get a letter from the unnamed user of the account stating that he assumes all responsebility for the account?

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    74
    Originally posted by esa3
    Can you get a letter from the unnamed user of the account stating that he assumes all responsebility for the account?
    That is my current course of action.

    I asked him earlier today to contact eNom to see if there was a way the account could be fully transfered to his name.

    I explained to him that this was in his best interest because if something wasn't done I was going to fight eNom until they eventually closed the account (through FTC and BBB complaints).

    He replied saying that he received documents to fax to eNom. I haven't seen these documents and probably won't. He is supposed to have eNom provide me with something saying that he is the new owner of the account and I am no longer liable.

    But here is the kicker... in order for the account to "officially" be his I have to write up a document stating that I wish for the account and it's assets to be transferred to him. This is what HE told me, not eNom directly (they quit talking to me yesterday). Even if he is lying to me I'm willing to do this if it helps get this account out of my name.

    So, if what he is telling me is true eNom left me with 2 options:

    1. Write out a document stating that I wish for the account and it's assets to be transferred to him. I'll fax this to eNom, not the other user.

    or

    2. Do nothing, still lose the account, he keeps access but I continue to be responsible for it.

    Not a hard choice to make. I do not want the account. Just reading the name "eNom" is starting to make me sick to my stomach now.

    People seem to not understand why I am not willing to give out any names. Let me try to explain...

    I've been in this industry a while now. I understand what hard work it takes to establish a business. This guy's company has been around for almost 5 years now and by looking at his forums his clients are very happy.

    When I put myself in his shoes I may see myself doing the same thing. He has an established business that has been based on that enom account for over 4 years. I left him the account for 2 years, his business continued to grow, probably to the point where he feels very uncomfortable with me having access to it.

    I may have been a little bit easier to deal with in finding a reasonable resolution. I probably would have replied to his emails. Chances are he was ignoring my emails hoping that I would just go away... I doubt I would have given him access to the account either.

    My beef in this situation is more with eNom than this other user. They have the means to work out a solution that would have worked out good for everybody. They refused to do anything at all and left me in a pretty difficult situation. When a company tells me things like "prove that you didn't sell it" or refuses to release liability from an account they won't give me access too, I tend to take offense at it.

    To put it short, I understand the business situation he was in. He was doing what he felt like had to be done to protect his business. I don't think his actions warranted the negative attention this thread would have brought to him.

    If I would have been granted access to my account all of his domains would have been pushed into the $6.95 sub-reseller account I setup before I had to leave. The only thing he would have been losing is the "ETP" title, which he never applied for anyway. I would have had the funds either pushed to that account or had eNom mail him a check.

    eNom seriously needs to set some polices and stick to them. If company policy is that ETP accounts can not be transferred (and it is), I should have been given access to the account. Instead, they see a few dollars being waved in front of them and then it is suddenly OK to transfer an ETP account.

    I was there in the beginning when eNom was a small company and treated each reseller like they were the only one. So much has changed since then... This is why I say "eNom has lost their minds".

    Of course, I must have lost my mind to give access to my account to somebody else to begin with.

    I'll reply again once the situation is 100% resolved. If anybody has any other suggestions please post them. If you have any contacts that are level headed employees at eNom and think they can help, please PM me.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Kuwait
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    10,573
    i'd say read the contract carefully and review it with a lawyer, see how can i break the contract and you be not resposible about the account!
    Bashar Al-Abdulhadi - KuwaitNET Internet Services Serving customers since 1997
    Kuwait's First Webhosting and Domain Registration provider - an ICANN Accredited Registrar

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