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  1. #1
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    How do you think of China?

    I want to hear some voice outside China that describes China.

    Thank u guys for posting
    God bless China!

  2. #2
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    All I've got to say is; Thank god for the Mandarin

  3. #3
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    I have no idea. I would love to visit there. I do know you make great food though and you have a big wall.
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  4. #4
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    I think China is a world superpower, not just in military strength, but in production of goods and services. I think they could drop their communist ways and still remain powerful.

  5. #5
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    China, currently, is chewing it's way through a vast amount of the world's available resources, at the seller's rate to re-create themselves as the next major force in the world's economy.

    I saw an interview with a US scrap metal dealer who claimed he's charging over ten times what he used to, due to demand - exporting it all to China.

    China has over 1 billion people, with a government ready to bring themselves into the 'modern world', both as a society, and as a base for producing goods - even more than they do now.
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  6. #6
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    Though autocratic, the national govt has good intentions. They have been doing very well with the economic management.

    If you read any magazines, they have a special China section coverage.

    Especially the recent decision to allow WalMart to operate in China, and forcing Walmart to allow labour unions.

    The economic power of China is going strong, all manufacturing factories in Singapore are moving there.

    I support political suppression at the expense of economic liberalisation. There are too many jobless. If people had their way, there would be social trouble.

    So maintain the economic growth at more than 7% so that jobs are created as fast as it is lost by outdated state-run industries layoffs.

    And probably after 10+ years, we can consider democracy.
    Last edited by hellind2; 05-28-2005 at 02:55 PM.

  7. #7
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    <<removed double post>>

  8. #8
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    I don't really trust communism all too well so i'm skeptical.
    I do however believe in trading with them.
    I personally feel the US should drop its grudge and trade with Cuba once again.
    Kerry Jones

  9. #9
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    China's obsession with reassimilating Taiwan, possibly by force, is a deterrant to thinking of China as "good".

    I wonder about this recent attempt to harass Japanese embassies. Yeah, 60-70 years ago Japan did bad, they started a war, and they lost. It looks a bit like Orwell's observation that an external "enemy" is constantly needed to keep the population united. The Chinese government isn't prepared to all-out have a war for the sake of having a war, but it looks like they are at least itchy for some conflict. It should serve as a warning to the U.S., because we're also being thought of as suckers like the Japanese for moving so much of our manufacturing infrastructure to China.

  10. #10
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    There is going to be major crisis in Asian continent in future due to over population. Here Jobless ratio is getting higher day by day. Richer is getting more richer and poor remains poor.

    China do produces very cheap goods but many of them are inferior quality due to cheap pricing. Anyway, world is turning towards cheaper goods and services and quality is not question for most of them, so producers like china will continue to grow. I am not surprised now Chinese producers are lending loans to US enterprises. China wants to keep its economy rolling.
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  11. #11
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    Big fan of the far east, lots of history in the area and a great sense of culture. China has a major aids problem that they could do to sort out though.

  12. #12
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    I love Asian Countries... Im Asian to
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  13. #13
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    China's obsession with reassimilating Taiwan, possibly by force, is a deterrant to thinking of China as "good".
    At least they are trying to claim back land that belongs to china. Unlike some countries I know of who likes to accuse others of having weapons of mass destrution and invade their country unlawfully...
    I wonder about this recent attempt to harass Japanese embassies. Yeah, 60-70 years ago Japan did bad, they started a war, and they lost. It looks a bit like Orwell's observation that an external "enemy" is constantly needed to keep the population united. The Chinese government isn't prepared to all-out have a war for the sake of having a war, but it looks like they are at least itchy for some conflict. It should serve as a warning to the U.S., because we're also being thought of as suckers like the Japanese for moving so much of our manufacturing infrastructure to China.
    Japan didn't feel remorse. You only forgive when the other party who did you wrong apologise sincerely...
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  14. #14
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    Malaysian Chinese here, so views can't 100% be considered 'outsider', considering I have a much better understanding of the chinese culture and chinese history etc.

    But I do feel that the present chinese government and those at the helm are really smart people, and have no doubt that given time, they'll steer china in the right direction
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  15. #15
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    I think what China is doing with trade is completely unfair. The US is the biggest factor in China's growth. Yet China is abusing things, and trying to take advantage of the US. I wouldn't be suprised if we saw a war coming soon. And Japan would surely take part in that (since they hate china), bringing on a possible world war again. As long as china keeps taking the sub $1/hour jobs, im ok with it. They can do the work while the US reaps the profit Also, beware of India, in a few decades, India will outnumber China in population. In my opinion, India is more of a superpower over China at the moment. I also believe that, as long as the US dominates the internet, it will remain the #1 superpower. Most of the chinese internet industry, is US invested, and therefore keeps money going to the US. Most every new product/service in china, comes from a US company. (Time warner wanting to make TV in china better, by introducing chinese sopranos and other hit shows). Google wanting to open a place in china to target the advertising of the online market.

  16. #16
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    I also believe that, as long as the US dominates the internet, it will remain the #1 superpower. Most of the chinese internet industry, is US invested, and therefore keeps money going to the US. Most every new product/service in china, comes from a US company. (Time warner wanting to make TV in china better, by introducing chinese sopranos and other hit shows). Google wanting to open a place in china to target the advertising of the online market.
    That argument will have to depend on which sociological view you take. You believe that the corporate companies dictates the consumer. But it can just as easily be said that the fate of the corporations rest in the consumers' hands.

    Besides, not most of the Chinese internet industry is invested by US companies. That's what most people feel, cause they don't surf chinese sites Also, there is nothing stopping the Chinese from taking over the internet in their own country. After all, who do you think will provide the better content and services to suit their culture, tradition and needs?
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  17. #17
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    It's getting tough to compete with China on price, but it bothers me that Americans have pretty much quit trying. A few weeks ago I was looking at wine cork pullers. No surprise that many are made in China. The Screw Pull, which used to be made in U.S.A., is now made in China. And yet I found one made in Italy and one made in Germany, competitive in price with the ones made in China. So the Italians and Germans are showing that competing with Chinese manufacturing be done, but the Americans aren't doing it.

  18. #18
    I, too, believe in 'one china'. One ruled by Taiwan

    Japan didn't feel remorse. You only forgive when the other party who did you wrong apologise sincerely...
    MacArthur absolved the Japanese. That is why they have not made big apologies. Do some research into that.
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  19. #19
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    All I can say is that you guys are sure besting us (USA) in cheap labor and, subsequently, products. So, for that, I'm humbled but I'm also a bit worried about my country's future! People are going to start trading other currencies, not the dollar (in fact, they already have). The U.S. is already asking China to revalue its currency; we'll see how that works out.

  20. #20
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    Originally posted by Rob83
    I think China is a world superpower, not just in military strength, but in production of goods and services.
    Watching a doco the other night on TV, and it said that China imports US$3Billion/yr in raw resources, and exports to the US, US$33 Billion/yr. So there's a US$30 Billion/yr trade defecit just there, and that's got to be hitting US jobs and US manyufacturing pretty hard.

    Of course, there are a LOT of big US companies in China. WalMart I think is the largest. The business WalMart does in China is staggering.
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  21. #21
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    Originally posted by Aussie Bob
    Of course, there are a LOT of big US companies in China. WalMart I think is the largest. The business WalMart does in China is staggering.
    Then again, much of Wal-Mart's inventory is made in China, so China gets it back anyhow -- pretty funny, eh?

  22. #22
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    Originally posted by freak
    At least they are trying to claim back land that belongs to china. Unlike some countries I know of who likes to accuse others of having weapons of mass destrution and invade their country unlawfully...

    Japan didn't feel remorse. You only forgive when the other party who did you wrong apologise sincerely...
    Before the arrival of Chiang Kai Shek, Taiwan was mostly native Taiwanese, who were happier to have been most recently under the Japanese Colonial Government than to be under the Republic of China. Imperial China and Portugal have in the past made claims on Taiwan/Formosa. The main thing is that the current population has a democracy and wants to keep it. China says "bad!".
    In Iraq the U.S. has removed a dictator and is trying to let the people have a democracy. China says "bad!".

    Japan has been fully compliant with their peace treaty, unlike a certain deposed Middle East regime. Compliance with the treaty is usually a pretty good basis to call a war finished. If you want to refight a war because one side didn't apologize enough about what was done prior to the treaty, that would be just about every war.

  23. #23
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    Our trade deficit is not $33B. We still do export a lot, and I believe its somewhere around $50-60B. So every year that goes by, we lose more and more. And for every dollar going oversee, the standard of living in america goes down. Soon people will be immigrating from America to other countries heh.

    Also I was referring to the content of china's internet. I was referring to the physical infrastructure necessary to make the internet what it is. I believe the majority of it, is US backed.

    And last but not least, the US dollar is helping the US economy more than ever. People keep bad mouthing it, but with it being so weak, our prices are then lower and enabling us the ability to compete head on with China. However, US companies dont want to do that, because they think its cheaper in China.

    The corporations are what make a country a world power. It's always been like that, and it always will be like that. The fact is, American factories can still produce more of a product, and faster, than any country in the world. However, it just costs more to do so.

    I think the new thing these days, is American companies advertising that their products are american made. I personally buy american made products. I try to buy as little asian goods as I can (though its hard to avoid sometimes). If Americans all work together to do things like that, US businesses will realize they're losing money by outsourcing. Only time will tell what happens with all this, but I can tell you, Americans wont let it last long, that's for damn sure.

  24. #24
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    When I think of China, I think of an enemy to democracy (the government, I have nothing against the people ) and a government that is struggling to stay in power while facing the rise of capitalism in its own society. I also think of Clinton and when he let the Chinese government gain control of the Panama canal which was built with US labor and money. US companies had higher bids than Hutchinson-Whampoa but it appears that the bidding was one sided and ultimately went to the Chinese military. Currently with their wanting to reunite the Taiwan government to the mainland and with their recent actions against Japan (note: the current administration or people in Japan had nothing to do with what happened in WWII). I think China needs to allow more political freedoms for its citizens and I think that it needs to quit forcing abortions on young Chinese women. China will be a great country in the future when they quit suppressing their people and when they quit imprisoning political dissidents for simply wanting more political freedoms.

  25. #25
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    Originally posted by Muzzleflash
    I, too, believe in 'one china'. One ruled by Taiwan
    I think a great tragedy of history is that Chiang Kai-Shek clung to that belief. If he would have abandoned it 40-50 years ago (which would have required him to magically mutate into someone else), he could have gotten a two China policy that might be respected today.

  26. #26
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    Originally posted by SniperDevil
    Then again, much of Wal-Mart's inventory is made in China, so China gets it back anyhow -- pretty funny, eh?
    Walmart revolutionised the US economy.

    The Chinese govt invited Walmart to open stores in China hoping it will do the same, streamlining the product chain.

    I remember reading it in an Newsweek article.

    http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6700787/site/newsweek/

    Atleast, it is going to do away with connections to do business in China.

  27. #27
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    Originally posted by Muzzleflash I, too, believe in 'one china'. One ruled by Taiwan
    One China, but different interpretation, any, is welcomed by the world chinese community.

    And that was the 1992 cocensus reached in HK, which the DPP have disvowed.


    Originally posted by Disgruntled
    I think a great tragedy of history is that Chiang Kai-Shek clung to that belief. If he would have abandoned it 40-50 years ago (which would have required him to magically mutate into someone else), he could have gotten a two China policy that might be respected today.
    CKS Nationalist party may have differed with the Communist, but they are still brothers.

    No Chinese will do that. The target is One China.

  28. #28
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    Originally posted by freak
    Malaysian Chinese here, so views can't 100% be considered 'outsider', considering I have a much better understanding of the chinese culture and chinese history etc.

    But I do feel that the present chinese government and those at the helm are really smart people, and have no doubt that given time, they'll steer china in the right direction
    You know, somehow I have a good feeling for the Malaysian Chinese.

    They still stick to Chinese traditions.

    And they donated a lot to the Nationalist Party fighting the war against the Japanese. Such that when Japan took over Singapore, many were prosecuted.

    My grandfather was a rich landlord in Guangdong, he was also helping the KMT financially.

  29. #29
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    Originally posted by hellind2
    One China, but different interpretation, any, is welcomed by the world chinese community.

    And that was the 1992 cocensus reached in HK, which the DPP have disvowed.


    CKS Nationalist party may have differed with the Communist, but they are still brothers.

    No Chinese will do that. The target is One China.
    The target for People's Republic of China is One China. If the Chinese government were confident that the target of the people of Taiwan is One China, then they would be encouraging Taiwan to have a vote on this issue without any threats. Oops! They're not.

  30. #30
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    Originally posted by Disgruntled
    The target for People's Republic of China is One China. If the Chinese government were confident that the target of the people of Taiwan is One China, then they would be encouraging Taiwan to have a vote on this issue without any threats. Oops! They're not.
    Free elections would be democratic! Can't let them do that

  31. #31
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    Originally posted by Disgruntled
    The target for People's Republic of China is One China. If the Chinese government were confident that the target of the people of Taiwan is One China, then they would be encouraging Taiwan to have a vote on this issue without any threats. Oops! They're not.
    I studied in Taiwan for four years. I know where that logic is coming from.

    If citizens of ROC had their way now, they would want independence. Therefore China need to keep that military threat in place.

    In X (expert say around 20 years) number of years, when PRC is more economic stable, population is kept under control, job figures are rosy, communist ideals are slowly pushed away, then there would be trial with democracy.

    And survey shows that the majority of ROC is willing to contemplate unification with democratic China.

    Right now the figures are 1/4th Pan-green, 1/4th Pan-Blue, 1/2 Status-Quo.

    Everyone knows that, PRC is just waiting out the time, DPP know that and is getting restless on changing the constitution. Time is not on DPP's side.

  32. #32
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    Thank you guys all for your kind advices, I hope you love China all along. God bless you!
    God bless China!

  33. #33
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    The Chinese govt invited Walmart to open stores in China hoping it will do the same, streamlining the product chain.
    not exactly. wal-mart may be costing us billions in food stamps and other various governments due to low wages.
    Kerry Jones

  34. #34
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    Originally posted by SniperDevil
    All I can say is that you guys are sure besting us (USA) in cheap labor and, subsequently, products. So, for that, I'm humbled but I'm also a bit worried about my country's future! People are going to start trading other currencies, not the dollar (in fact, they already have). The U.S. is already asking China to revalue its currency; we'll see how that works out.
    the us is only asking for china to unpeg its currency and allow it be freely valued like all other modern trading countries - this is the only way for a true free comptetion to work. I think the whole cycle of china and other former third world countries coming forward is great - now they need to be allowed to compete with out us complaining. part of that is fair competion and pegging your currency to keep it from increasing in value aginst your trading partners is not fair. this would make their goods more expensive and curb the amount of job loss - it would also bring more money into their country and allow them to flourish with more buying power. their on shore items would carry more value.

    ......moving on to another comment. ......

    I dont agree with them thinking they can just continue to take over others who have done things right - like taiwan. that is rediculous to think that taiwan did things right and now they should be put back under a governemetn that was messing things up for so long economically by choosing a system that did not work.

    I think china is doing some things right - like taking things slow in its moves towards free market. some of the others moved too fast and it caused problems. the us governement needs to back off on the pressure for them to convert so fast and work with them to keep things in check and balance during the transition.

    we should all be applauding the progress they ahve made.
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  35. #35
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    Originally posted by sailor
    the us is only asking for china to unpeg its currency and allow it be freely valued like all other modern trading countries - this is the only way for a true free comptetion to work. I think the whole cycle of china and other former third world countries coming forward is great - now they need to be allowed to compete with out us complaining. part of that is fair competion and pegging your currency to keep it from increasing in value aginst your trading partners is not fair. this would make their goods more expensive and curb the amount of job loss - it would also bring more money into their country and allow them to flourish with more buying power. their on shore items would carry more value.

    ......moving on to another comment. ......

    I dont agree with them thinking they can just continue to take over others who have done things right - like taiwan. that is rediculous to think that taiwan did things right and now they should be put back under a governemetn that was messing things up for so long economically by choosing a system that did not work.

    I think china is doing some things right - like taking things slow in its moves towards free market. some of the others moved too fast and it caused problems. the us governement needs to back off on the pressure for them to convert so fast and work with them to keep things in check and balance during the transition.

    we should all be applauding the progress they ahve made.
    Such a great post, I agree with you 100%.

  36. #36
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    Originally posted by hellind2
    I studied in Taiwan for four years. I know where that logic is coming from.

    If citizens of ROC had their way now, they would want independence. Therefore China need to keep that military threat in place.

    In X (expert say around 20 years) number of years, when PRC is more economic stable, population is kept under control, job figures are rosy, communist ideals are slowly pushed away, then there would be trial with democracy.

    And survey shows that the majority of ROC is willing to contemplate unification with democratic China.

    Right now the figures are 1/4th Pan-green, 1/4th Pan-Blue, 1/2 Status-Quo.

    Everyone knows that, PRC is just waiting out the time, DPP know that and is getting restless on changing the constitution. Time is not on DPP's side.
    Since Taiwan is a democracy, the KMT and DPP are free to beat each other over the head. An election, free of threats by China, can be on independence, not on KMT vs DPP. The poll doesn't show how the people would choose in the absence of threats from China. Currently a choice of declaring independence is a choice of high risk that China will implement threats. Chen was all for declaring independence back when he was a first-term candidate and has had to soften that in the face of the hazards. Former President Lee, who had to be for "one China" while in office, talks up independence as a retired President. If China is confident that sometime in the future the Taiwanese people will be wanting to be reunified with new and improved China, there is no reason why independence today would prevent voluntary reunification in the future. Unless of course independence leads to people liking that better. Maybe they won't like independence better. Maybe an unthreatened election would favor unification. The way to know is to do the experiment, but China does not want to take any risk on the result.

  37. #37
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    Before the arrival of Chiang Kai Shek, Taiwan was mostly native Taiwanese, who were happier to have been most recently under the Japanese Colonial Government than to be under the Republic of China. Imperial China and Portugal have in the past made claims on Taiwan/Formosa. The main thing is that the current population has a democracy and wants to keep it. China says "bad!".
    In Iraq the U.S. has removed a dictator and is trying to let the people have a democracy. China says "bad!".
    You are seeing everything from an American prespective. The USA believes in Democracy. I am not against that. But I'll be happy if they keep their damned meddlesome hands off the rest of the world

    The whole thing might bring us back to the basic debate of whether democracy is the best way to go? Ancient philosophers like Plato described democracy as a mob control where mis-informed masses makes ridiculous decisions.

    The US can run its country however it wants, but I believe the rest of the world would be much happier if the US don't tell the others how to run their countries. There is more than one way to run a country, and each have its merits. The US system may not be the best.
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  38. #38
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    Originally posted by freak

    The US can run its country however it wants, but I believe the rest of the world would be much happier if the US don't tell the others how to run their countries. There is more than one way to run a country, and each have its merits. The US system may not be the best.
    So in conclusion, China telling the people of Taiwan not to decide for themselves what they want is good.

  39. #39
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    So in conclusion, China telling the people of Taiwan not to decide for themselves what they want is good.
    Not if Taiwan is part of China.

    If the US can come up with a theory on how Iraq or the rest of the world was part of the US, then I suppose my arguments will need a review...
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    Originally posted by freak
    You are seeing everything from an American prespective. The USA believes in Democracy. I am not against that. But I'll be happy if they keep their damned meddlesome hands off the rest of the world

    The whole thing might bring us back to the basic debate of whether democracy is the best way to go? Ancient philosophers like Plato described democracy as a mob control where mis-informed masses makes ridiculous decisions.

    The US can run its country however it wants, but I believe the rest of the world would be much happier if the US don't tell the others how to run their countries. There is more than one way to run a country, and each have its merits. The US system may not be the best.
    it might not be - however one way to evaluate a system is look at the living standard of its people in general - of course there are other factors there too - however you can take a swipe at it over all. I think most would agree that democracy / republics have the highest standard and communism / dicatators have the lowest.

    then one can also look at net migration of peoples in and out of a country assuming that a net immigration means it has something good going on and a net migration is the opposite.

    I think we all know the numbers there if looking at the types of governments.

    I do agree with you though that the US should not be spending quite so much time and effort elsewhere.



    "Not if Taiwan is part of China.

    If the US can come up with a theory on how Iraq or the rest of the world was part of the US, then I suppose my arguments will need a review..."

    on that statement - I must say its only part of it if china uses its military to take it - otherwise it has declared basically that its not. it would make a stronger declaration if it was not afraid of being invaded by china - the same one that said we should not invade any one - lol.

    its all relative and everyone likes to tell everyone else how to do things - however when it comes their turn to do something all of a sudden past opinions go out the window in favor of self interest.
    Last edited by sailor; 05-29-2005 at 09:39 PM.
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