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05-27-2005, 04:16 PM #1Junior Guru Wannabe
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setup fees : positive or negative ?
i feel that a hosting company requiring setup fees means "less trust on the service"
how do you look to that?
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05-27-2005, 04:27 PM #2Web Hosting Master
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OS installs, formats, repairs (if a previous customer damaged something) and server installation cost money. It takes hardware and human resources, and those definitely cost money. Web hosts have to pay the people who work for them (quite obviously), and part of a technician's job is to install Operating Systems and setup the actual equipment... And most of the time, it's a marketing decision (Lower setup fee if you sign up for an Annual commitment, or something similar to that... when really, the extra money that comes from the additional months is more than the setup fee itself... ) Everything costs time and money to install.
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05-27-2005, 04:34 PM #3Junior Guru Wannabe
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Originally posted by flashwiregsn
OS installs, formats, repairs (if a previous customer damaged something) and server installation cost money. It takes hardware and human resources, and those definitely cost money. Web hosts have to pay the people who work for them (quite obviously), and part of a technician's job is to install Operating Systems and setup the actual equipment... And most of the time, it's a marketing decision (Lower setup fee if you sign up for an Annual commitment, or something similar to that... when really, the extra money that comes from the additional months is more than the setup fee itself... ) Everything costs time and money to install.
they do setup one server manul then they do use a tool like norton ghost or dedicated installation server ...etc
reinstalling a whole a server will cost them 2 minutes or technical work ...the machines will do the rest my friendLast edited by docesam; 05-27-2005 at 04:38 PM.
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05-27-2005, 05:24 PM #4Web Hosting Master
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Not in the case of Windows.
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05-27-2005, 05:26 PM #5Web Hosting Master
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You're not seeing my point... There are many configurations that they deal with (even custom OS requests) and even the automated programs such as Ghost require user input and operation. There are VERY few datacenters/hosts who have a system that can automatically configure a server... (15minuteservers uses an auto-configuration system, I believe). Still, formatting a server's hard drives and preparing it for the next customer DOES cost money... and the setup fee is meant to cover those costs, in some cases.
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05-27-2005, 05:29 PM #6Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by HstCreations
Not in the case of Windows.
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05-27-2005, 05:29 PM #7Web Hosting Master
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Re: setup fees : positive or negative ?
Originally posted by docesam
i feel that a hosting company requiring setup fees means "less trust on the service"
how do you look to that?
And why do you think this? Did you just get stuffed by a dedicated server provider? Just curious.
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05-27-2005, 05:41 PM #8Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by HstCreations
Not in the case of Windows.
if you still manaully depoly Windows2003, you need to update your skills.
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05-27-2005, 05:49 PM #9Web Hosting Master
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I think a setup fee is a good way to keep the riff raff and trouble makers away from your network.
The "immediate setup" guys, the ones that have to have it RIGHT NOW are ALWAYS horrible clients......."I have 4 dual Xeons at XYZ company and I need to move in 2 hours, can you help us"...................NO!██ Ray Womack @ atOmicVPS LTD
██ Linux & Windows Cloud Hosting Solutions Powered by OnApp
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05-27-2005, 09:11 PM #10Junior Guru
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Also, like anything else you lease, the more money you put down the lower your monthly cost is going to be.
Matthew Winship
15 Minute Servers / Net Access Corp.
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www.nac.net
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05-27-2005, 09:16 PM #11Web Hosting Guru
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I agree, plus in the era of month to month agreements you might not even be able to pay for your time and or employees time to set a customer up if the customer cancels after the 1st month.
Set up fees, are good and should always be there for month to month clients..
Originally posted by PSFServers
I think a setup fee is a good way to keep the riff raff and trouble makers away from your network.
The "immediate setup" guys, the ones that have to have it RIGHT NOW are ALWAYS horrible clients......."I have 4 dual Xeons at XYZ company and I need to move in 2 hours, can you help us"...................NO!
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05-27-2005, 09:25 PM #12Junior Guru Wannabe
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Originally posted by flashwiregsn
You're not seeing my point... There are many configurations that they deal with (even custom OS requests) and even the automated programs such as Ghost require user input and operation. There are VERY few datacenters/hosts who have a system that can automatically configure a server... (15minuteservers uses an auto-configuration system, I believe). Still, formatting a server's hard drives and preparing it for the next customer DOES cost money... and the setup fee is meant to cover those costs, in some cases.
norton ghost can be configured to automatically copy an image to the harddrive, even reformatting the drive and installingLast edited by docesam; 05-27-2005 at 09:31 PM.
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05-27-2005, 09:27 PM #13Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by PSFServers
I think a setup fee is a good way to keep the riff raff and trouble makers away from your network.
The "immediate setup" guys, the ones that have to have it RIGHT NOW are ALWAYS horrible clients......."I have 4 dual Xeons at XYZ company and I need to move in 2 hours, can you help us"...................NO!
Silly assumptions/generalizations yet again!
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05-27-2005, 09:28 PM #14Junior Guru Wannabe
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Re: Re: setup fees : positive or negative ?
Originally posted by blockcipher
I disagree. So you are saying that ALL companies that require setup fees and not trustworthy? That's a pretty bold statement. Since all the bigboy and smaller dedicated server sellers all do it. I'm sure its for a reason.
And why do you think this? Did you just get stuffed by a dedicated server provider? Just curious.
charging $20 for setup is undrestandable but why a company charge $200 setup ?
do the reinstall cost $200 ? or they just want to tie you in ?
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05-27-2005, 09:42 PM #15Web Hosting Guru
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I am willing to pay a setup fee if that lowers my monthly bill. I usually intend to stay with a provider for at least 6 months. So $20 break on monthly in exchange for $100 setup is a good deal. And I will not assume the provider is untrustworthy just because he is charging $100 setup.
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05-27-2005, 09:43 PM #16Web Hosting Master
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When we rent a server, we need to install a fresh copy of the os, buy a control panel licence, verify your identity... all these steps are not free. It involves fees and admin work. Usually, when we rent a server we are at loss for the first couple of months at least. If the customer accepts to pay the setup fees, we wil rent the server at nominal fees. But if the customer want a server with 0 setup, we provide that, but we need to add a surcharge to cover our initial investment. Even with this, if the customer leaves us after a couple of months, we're at loss.
Enterprise Consultant
CCNP Enterprise - CCNP Security
.:. Travels From West to East .:.
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05-28-2005, 01:28 AM #17Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by HP-David
That doesn't mean they're horrible clients - just in horrible situations.
Silly assumptions/generalizations yet again!
Case in point. "I need 4 dual Xeons moved from XYZ company in 2 hours".
Account cost $8,000 in hardware, then the IP's needed to be null routed within the first 24 hours because there was an attack on their IP's.
I'll give you a day in the shoes of a President of an ISP. Wanna see what we deal with everyday?██ Ray Womack @ atOmicVPS LTD
██ Linux & Windows Cloud Hosting Solutions Powered by OnApp
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05-28-2005, 02:08 AM #18Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by PSFServers
I'll give you a day in the shoes of a President of an ISP. Wanna see what we deal with everyday?
Setup fees can't be classified as positive or negative as a whole, they have ups and downs.
Don't pay a big setup fee if you don't trust the company. Make sure they have been around for some time and their domain won't stop resolving an hour after they run your card.
But as several people have stated, the dedicated server business, is just that, a business. Wether we install your OS manually or automatically, the system is pre-assembled or custom made, there are costs involved. Setup fees also tend to scare away bad customers like spammers who want to just send as many emails as they can before you shut them down.
Anyone who offers servers w/out setup fees (like us), does it just for the sake of being competetive, we all want to use them even if we don't.EZZI.net - A Service of Access Integrated Technologies Inc
Running data centers, nationwide data network, and world-wide VoIP network.
http://www.EZZI.net sales@ezzi.net
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05-28-2005, 10:19 AM #19Junior Guru Wannabe
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i know a friend of mine spend $200 setup only to discover that the server (according to him) :"not working properly" and "most probably hardware issue"
i can't say he is wrong or right but i think nobody would tolerate paying that much to find that the performance suboptimal
i think out friend Take-IT-EZZI said "Don't pay a big setup fee if you don't trust the company" ... i agree with him
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05-28-2005, 12:08 PM #20Web Hosting Master
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I dont charge setup fees anymore, because I think it makes more sense down the road, and can often lure in more customers. It gives them the opportunity to try our service without tying the knot. If they don't like it, they can leave comfortably, but hopefully, they will like it, and continue to renew each month
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05-28-2005, 12:15 PM #21Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by PSFServers
Start a dedicated server company buddy. We deal with all kinds of BS.
Case in point. "I need 4 dual Xeons moved from XYZ company in 2 hours".
Account cost $8,000 in hardware, then the IP's needed to be null routed within the first 24 hours because there was an attack on their IP's.
I'll give you a day in the shoes of a President of an ISP. Wanna see what we deal with everyday?
Try getting a clue and realizing that there are people in situations where near instant setup times are needed. Frankly, I'm not even sure how you're in business like an attitude like that.
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05-28-2005, 01:18 PM #22Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by inogenius
It was a rather stereotypical, disrespectful comment towards people who are in rough situations.
I know situations are all different, however we protect our present clients as best we can by not accepting risky accounts. There are certain things that will flag you as a risk in my book, and it is all based on proven, past experience.
Originally posted by inogenius
Last month I needed a new server setup as soon as possible, because I had a rush of signups that I couldn't meet the demands of with my current fleet. Signed up with a provider, sent them an email and they had me up and running in just a few hours. According to you, I'd just be some random horrible client.
Originally posted by inogenius
Frankly, I'm not even sure how you're in business like an attitude like that.
Although we are relatively small (under 50 servers), We have yet to lose ONE SINGLE CLIENT. And for the forseable future, we will continue manage our growth by attracting only quality customers.
I guess it comes down to this - leasing a server is much like leasing an apartment - you don't want to lease to the guy who is going to tear the sheet rock off the wall and put a sofa out on the porch.██ Ray Womack @ atOmicVPS LTD
██ Linux & Windows Cloud Hosting Solutions Powered by OnApp
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05-28-2005, 06:42 PM #23Web Hosting Master
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Re: setup fees : positive or negative ?
Originally posted by docesam
i feel that a hosting company requiring setup fees means "less trust on the service"
how do you look to that?
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05-28-2005, 07:22 PM #24Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by PSFServers
Right. I do have an "attitude". Some hate it, some love it. I tell you who loves it - our existing and loyal client base.
Although we are relatively small (under 50 servers), We have yet to lose ONE SINGLE CLIENT. And for the forseable future, we will continue manage our growth by attracting only quality customers.
I guess it comes down to this - leasing a server is much like leasing an apartment - you don't want to lease to the guy who is going to tear the sheet rock off the wall and put a sofa out on the porch.
You can't make everyone happy (And God knows I've tried!)
If you've never lost a customer, that says a lot, and you can bet that if PSFServers takes you on as a customer, they intend to keep you happy, good business model if you ask me.EZZI.net - A Service of Access Integrated Technologies Inc
Running data centers, nationwide data network, and world-wide VoIP network.
http://www.EZZI.net sales@ezzi.net
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05-28-2005, 07:30 PM #25Retired Moderator
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Setup fees are fine with me. However, the setup fee should not be more than the product, in my opinion.
For example, if you sell a $80 per month server, your setup fee should be around $50, not $200.
Just an opinion...