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  1. #1
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    Do you refund if they broke your TOS/AUP?

    Do you refund clients money if they break your Terms of service or acceptable use policy?

    Just wondering what everyone thinks about it.
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  2. #2
    Absolutely not!

    If we have to terminate someone's service because they did not follow the rules we do not refund the money.

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Agreed with WN, I would NEVER refund someone for breaking our company policy, or maybe that have done something illegal!
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  4. #4
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    Simple question...

    Does your AUP/TOS say anything about what will happen is you break the TOS/AUP? Certain hosts definitely states very clearly that no refund or anything will be given if you should break the TOS/AUP.

    So, a simple answer to your question would be... NO!!! Absolutely Definitely NOT!!! Why would anyone wanna break your TOS and then come asking for a refund? Is that person looking for trouble? LOL...
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  5. #5
    No course not!

  6. #6
    To refund after breaking the rules would prove nothing, except your willing to accept illegal activities and them them move on with their money still..
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  7. #7
    Join Date
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    If they broke your TOS/AUP dollars to donuts says they also used a stolen credit card, OR they'll issue chargebacks, either way you're screwed.

    Yes I usually refund them, I -hate myself- for giving the refund, it makes my teeth grind and gives me a tension headache but yes, I refund them because the inevitable chargeback sucks more than the refund.

    I then call my lawyer and have him send them a threatening letter, doesn't usually help but hey who knows maybe they'll pay up

    If they paid via ANY means other than credit card, screw 'em they shouldn't have broken the TOS/AUP, but if by CC yes I refund them.
    Gary Harris - the artist formerly known as Dixiesys
    resident grumpy redneck

  8. #8
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    Originally posted by BlueyBlue
    To refund after breaking the rules would prove nothing, except your willing to accept illegal activities and them them move on with their money still..
    And word of such a policy would quicky spread...attacting all the spammers, etc. Not advisable to refund if a client breaks the AUP unless under extreme and special circumstances (i.e. failure of the company to make some rule known, such as an update to the tos but not announced to current clientele.)
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  9. #9
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    I would not refund them the money enless they are going to cause me trouble. Although I would give them an indepth description on how they broke the TOS/AUP and why they are not eligible to receive a refund.

  10. #10
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    Now the question is what do you do, a few weeks done the line when the inevitable chargeback comes in...After fighting it, and getting that second chargeback that you can't fight.

    Starts to look bad on your merchant account, causes increased rates, and you're still out the money....Do collection agencies really succeed in collecting funds (I'm assuming they'd have to be more than $50 to even be worth that option.)
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  11. #11
    I agree, no

  12. #12
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    Depends on when they ordered and how they broke the terms of service, not usually.
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  13. #13
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    What does your TOS say on the policies of refunds, etc? We refund them the remainder of the month if needed. We usually give the person a warning first - because I will admit, a lot of people do not read a TOS - way too much reading, legalese, etc. But if they break it after the warning, then we pro-rate their hosting.

    (At least that is what we would do if we ever had someone break out TOS )

  14. #14
    We don't give refunds to any accounts that violate our aup/tos.
    To assume perfection is merely a display of ignorance.

  15. #15
    Join Date
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    Originally posted by Nullified
    We don't give refunds to any accounts that violate our aup/tos.
    What if the account is under a stolen cc?

    hehe.
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  16. #16
    Then, as allways, the money would be instantly refunded as soon as I found out the cc was stolen....
    To assume perfection is merely a display of ignorance.

  17. #17
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    Originally posted by Dixiesys
    If they broke your TOS/AUP dollars to donuts says they also used a stolen credit card, OR they'll issue chargebacks, either way you're screwed.

    Yes I usually refund them, I -hate myself- for giving the refund, it makes my teeth grind and gives me a tension headache but yes, I refund them because the inevitable chargeback sucks more than the refund.

    I then call my lawyer and have him send them a threatening letter, doesn't usually help but hey who knows maybe they'll pay up

    If they paid via ANY means other than credit card, screw 'em they shouldn't have broken the TOS/AUP, but if by CC yes I refund them.
    I feel similar to you MOST of the time.
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  18. #18
    I can destroy someone's credit report if they chargeback me when they owe me money. When I worked at a game store, people who would never return games sometimes showed up years later demanding to know why they couldn't get car loans.. just a fact of life if you don't pay up.
    So far I have not needed to make 31 posts thanks to the search function.

  19. #19
    Originally posted by Muzzleflash
    I can destroy someone's credit report if they chargeback me when they owe me money. When I worked at a game store, people who would never return games sometimes showed up years later demanding to know why they couldn't get car loans.. just a fact of life if you don't pay up.
    I really don't see this possible. Especially without a social.
    To assume perfection is merely a display of ignorance.

  20. #20
    Greetings:

    In the case of a stolen credit card, you do need to refund the money to the card holder.

    Thank you.
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    Peter M. Abraham
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  21. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
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    771
    This is a tough call and since it rarely happens with us we have not had to deal with it. Now the problem is many CC companies will just take the money back unless you have strong proof that you provided service to them. The problem is many merchant banks don't care about your TOS/AUP and will say you did not provide service and they give the money back.

    If it is a stolen CC you have no choice but to give it back.


    As far as sending to collections I think this is extreme on a shared monthly account valued at $5 since this loss can be written off on your taxes and you gain just as much in tax debt relief.

    No, as a standard rule you should not give the money back.


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    Robert
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  22. #22

  23. #23
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    We usually refund if the client is just uploading mp3 with copyright violations. Normally it's just a teenager that doesn't know better. We never suspend on these circumstances, because we just can't trust this client again. We cancell these accounts. But we do refund.

    On spam violations, we don't refund. The spammer knows is violating our rules.
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  24. #24
    I would never and I also would make surethat you lock them out of your site for good. I have found that once a bad apple always a bad apple. Just remember to be professional, pollite and firm in your decission. This will make you look better in the eyes of this and other clients.

  25. #25
    Originally posted by kpsservices
    I would never and I also would make surethat you lock them out of your site for good. I have found that once a bad apple always a bad apple. Just remember to be professional, pollite and firm in your decission. This will make you look better in the eyes of this and other clients.
    it's too bad the owner of the ip that you block will inevitably change.
    To assume perfection is merely a display of ignorance.

  26. #26
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    Originally posted by Eu1net
    On spam violations, we don't refund. The spammer knows is violating our rules.
    Spammers aren't exactly known for using a valid or their own credit card to purchase hosting to spam with... So not refunding is quite dangerous and a high chargeback risk, just my take on it.
    Gary Harris - the artist formerly known as Dixiesys
    resident grumpy redneck

  27. #27
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    Thank you, Gary. I agree with you.

    Until now, we targeted only our local market. We don't have a lot of spam issues. But sometimes we do catch customers sending spam. They just believe they can get away with it. But they don't fit the professional spammer that uses a stolen credit card.

    We usually know when a customer is spamming with a guilty conscious. His messages have SPAM written all over. The amount of recipients is massive. Some customers spam with neglect. They just don't "grep" the concept. But their IMO is very different from a spammer. We try to give these clients a second chance. But we have to protect our servers from all the negative consequences of SPAM.
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  28. #28
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    Originally posted by Eu1net
    Thank you, Gary. I agree with you.

    Until now, we targeted only our local market. We don't have a lot of spam issues. But sometimes we do catch customers sending spam. They just believe they can get away with it. But they don't fit the professional spammer that uses a stolen credit card.

    We usually know when a customer is spamming with a guilty conscious. His messages have SPAM written all over. The amount of recipients is massive. Some customers spam with neglect. They just don't "grep" the concept. But their IMO is very different from a spammer. We try to give these clients a second chance. But we have to protect our servers from all the negative consequences of SPAM.
    Re SPAM , I know what your talking about some people don't understand that because someone bought a product from you that doesn't mean you can send them promo emails when ever you want with out an opt out , however I recently had an issue where a client of one of my clients marked an auto responder from the clients helpdesk as SPAM and AOL got their knickers in a twist over it. In that event I'm not punishing the client for a truly Non issue.

    Would I refund a client if they broke the TOS/ AUP no to break the TOS AUP you have broken the contract there for the client would not be entitled to anything.
    Dana aka Laci My Alter Ego
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  29. #29
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
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    Not usually. Highly depends IF they get a refund.
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  30. #30
    If they broke the TOS, this would be severely out of the question. Terms Of Service documents are in place to ellaborate the obvious basically, however scammers never comply.
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