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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    275

    Account was hacked?

    Hello.

    This is an issue I am having with an individual whos website I used to host. Any opinions on the matter are greatly appreciated.

    I currently host...well no longer do but am still dealing with a customer who seems to always claim that his site has been down. However, at the time of his claims, he was logging in to our ticket system that is located on the same server. Because of his persistent claims and rather rude comments, I have, at numerous times, informed him that for every month that he was unsatisfied, a refund will be provided.

    Just recently, I have given him a refund for all three months that he hosted with us. However, he is now calling my house phone and asking why I stated that on his homempage, his site says "hacked."

    Once again, he claims that he cannot view his website (webtheme dot us) and that when he does, it does not say "hacked." For some reason, it seems that he is assuming that I have something to do with his site.

    During the phone call, he stated that the website was hacked previously, but that was before he transferred to my server. Now that he changed his DNS back to his previous nameservers, why is he still bugging me about this "hacked" issue?

    I would appreciate your comments and opinions on this issue. By the way, the client was paying $3.95/month (which has been FULLY refunded...not one penny was kept). When you visit "webtheme dot us" what do you see?



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    Last edited by SoftWareRevue; 05-26-2005 at 12:57 PM.
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  2. #2
    we know about this and we seen the responce you gave him (unprofessional).it does seem odd that you had a problem with this cliant and all a sudden his site is hacked?
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Chennai , India
    Posts
    4,632
    you are nice host, just to say.

    No host will refund for such issues, if the site is not hacked.

    I recieve this,Hacked by Dj_Raven the Nightmare Defacer

    The funny thing is

    <body bgcolor="#000000" text="#00ff00"
    <img src="http://www.freewebs.com/defacements/dj_raven.JPG"><font color="#ffffff" face="Fixedsys" size="7"></font></p><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><font color="#ffffff" face="Fixedsys" size="7"<div align="right">Hacked by Dj_Raven the Nightmare Defacer<br />
    IF the site is hacked, no potential hacker would host the images from an free host.

    he is crap.
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  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Merville BC
    Posts
    608
    Shows site was hacked.

    Is he running some sort of php/mysql site? If so, its the customers responsibility to patch/update/secure his own site - not the hosting providers.
    Three out of four people make up 75 percent of the population
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  5. #5
    here is a post that will make sense to this one
    http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showth...hreadid=408840
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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Chennai , India
    Posts
    4,632
    Originally posted by okanagantech
    Shows site was hacked.

    Is he running some sort of php/mysql site? If so, its the customers responsibility to patch/update/secure his own site - not the hosting providers.
    Host must take down, a hacker cannot hack if the security is tight from the server side.

    if he uses PHPBB without any update their might be a chance for SQL INJECTION.
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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    8,154
    According to the email that the client shared with everyone in his/her post, you were highly unprofessional and disrespectful. Just wondering what the user wrote in his/her email that made you react the way you did.

    The way you reacted, no matter what sort of an e-mail the client sent, was highly unprofessional.

    Nowhere that he stated that his site has been getting hacked since his/her previous host. Nor did he mention that you had refunded him/her the full amount paid.

    Regarding the site being hacked, unless it was a security hole in the server. IMO it would be the client's responsiblity to make sure he/she is using secure passwords and not using any scripts that would allow for their site to be hacked.

    There is always two sides to every story
    Last edited by 1Ali; 05-26-2005 at 12:12 PM.
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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    275
    Hello.

    This reply is for "WN-Ali":

    This reply was sent after the person (name cannot be revealed for apparent reasons) called my house phone yelling for a refund even after we had promised one for all three months.

    Keep in mind that this phone call was not a normal phone call with a proper tone. Here I am at home...and I receive a phone call with a person claiming that I have deleted his files from my sever and that he demands a refund and he is using very interesting (insulting) language demanding a refund. I do not understand why a person would do this after we have already promised a refund. Unfortunately the phone call is not something I can provide proof of but I will love to post the previous ticket exchanges:

    Client: March 25th, 2005 12:05 AM

    "Hello,
    My website is down. This is not good.
    "webtheme dot us"

    Please tell me what is going on.
    Seth"


    Tech Support: March 25th, 2005 1:13 AM

    "Hello Seth.

    Thanks for contacting Zeniors support.

    We have terminated some accounts that were clogging up the server and now all sites are working properly. We appreciate you informing us on this matter.

    Regards,
    Zeniors Web Services

    ------Thank you for hosting with Zeniors Web Services!------
    ------Please feel free to contact us ANYTIME of the day!------"



    Client: March 27th, 2005 2:47 PM

    "Hello,

    March 27th
    3:41 PM EST

    My site is down again. This is the second time in a week. You make the claim of 99.9 uptime. I am about to launch a very large website and I need to know that your service is reliable. I can't afford this much downtime. I moved to your service because my old host was down all the time.

    Why is my site down again?
    What will you do to insure that this won't happen again?

    Seth"





    Client (same ticket): March 27th, 2005 6:30 PM

    "March 27th
    7:24PM EST

    Still down."



    Client (same ticket): March 27th, 2005 8:07 PM

    "March 27th
    9:02PM EST
    Still down.

    If this happens ever again I will have to cancel and move to a more reliable host."


    Tech Support: March 27th, 2005 8:15 PM

    "Hello Seth.

    Thanks for contacting Zeniors support.

    Actually buddy, our server appears to be running just fine. Have you been unable to access your site all day? Perhaps your IP has been blocked.

    Visit "whatismyip dot com" and send me your IP and I will have it removed from the block list (if it is on there).

    Anyways, we have decided to terminate numerous accounts that have been clogging up the server. This will definitely increase server performance.

    Please let me know if your site has been unavailable all day or if it was just certain occassions.

    If you decide to change to a new host, we will stick to our promise and provide you with a full refund.

    Regards,
    Zeniors Web Services

    ------Thank you for hosting with Zeniors Web Services!------
    ------Please feel free to contact us ANYTIME of the day!------"



    Client (Same ticket): March 28th, 2005 9:31 AM

    "My IP is **.**.**.**

    Monday March 28th
    10:26AM

    Site is still down.
    Why would my IP be blocked?"



    Tech Support: March 28th, 2005 10:50 AM

    "Hello Seth.

    Thanks for contacting Zeniors support.

    We have a security measure in place that bans the IP of anyone who fails to type in the password correctly within three consecutive tries. However, I do not think your IP is blocked because you would not be able to access our site either.

    Perhaps you may want to clean out your cache. Just as before, your site is working properly. I have checked it on numerous computers. Perhaps you may want to ask one of your friends whether your site is visible or not for both our satisfaction.

    Once again, has it been "down" this entire time or is it just it works sometimes and doesn't at other times? Perhaps you should try from another computer or ask a friend to view the site just to be certain that it is your computer causing the problem and not our servers.

    When I visit your site, I see a big logo which says "Putting a happy face on the web."

    Regards,
    Zeniors Web Services

    ------Thank you for hosting with Zeniors Web Services!------
    ------Please feel free to contact us ANYTIME of the day!------"


    There are numerous other exchanges that will be posted later so that I do not flood the forum.

    Keep in mind that the reason the email was so unprofessional was because it is no longer a professional issue, it is a personal issue. When a person calls your house and decides to yell and cuss on the phone, the situation becomes personal...and is no longer a business matter.

    Regards,
    Zeeshan (Zeniors.com admin)

    P.S. All of you that have posted in this forum, your opinions are greatly appreciated and your point of view is considered to be constructive criticism on my part. I am neither here to argue nor to prove anything, simply going to provide facts so that you may form an educated opinion of the matter.

    Keep in mind that the client STILL cannot view his site...even when it is no longer on our server (told me this on the phone...blamed me for the "hacked" page on his domain even though his domain doesn't reside on my server). Apparently there is a problem with his internet access.
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  9. #9
    Just to clear something up.

    My site was hacked by the defacer on a different host.

    I moved my site to my other host within the last 24 hours and it was hacked within that time frame.

    Zeniors keeps saying I "claimed" my site was down and then says it's my fault.

    It's all very simple. You treated a customer like garbage. That is how you lose customers. When you say things like

    " I still think that the problem is on your part and am trying to make you happy by saying otherwise. You are more than welcome to leave as you pay $3.95/month...I can even buy a burger with that." -Zeniors

    And

    "Perhaps you should learn to correct your attitude and stop blaming others so that others don blame you for your ridiculous comments" - Zeniors

    And

    "nyways, your $3.95 isn worth my time" - Zeniors

    And

    "If I may ask, how old are you? You sound like a middle aged individual that learned a few things about computers and thinks that he knows everything now. Once again, perhaps you should consider why we are the ones making money...while you are the one constantly complaining about issues that don exist. " - Zeniors

    And

    "We love serving our customers with respect and give them more than they pay for...however, we expect respect in return and your $3.95 (1.5 gallons of gas) isn enough to stop us from returning your ridiculous, unconfirmed comments with the same tone that you wish to speak to us with. Neither do I expect my respected support techs to take such insulting comments from ..... will leave out the unnecessary words that I would use to describe you." - Zeniors


    No matter what I said, you are wrong. You don't treat your customers that way unless you want to fail in business.
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  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Long Island, New York
    Posts
    220
    Ouch! Sorry Zeniors, you fail.

    Treating a customer like crap certainly isn't going to get you very far in this business.

    I do my duty, even for my "gallon of gas" customers. I know a lot of people wouldn't, but the low cost accounts can often lead to satisfied customers, which can lead to more accounts, and larger accounts... good word of mouth spreads, and so does bad.
    TWSites.com - Business Web Hosting Solutions & Server Management Since 2003
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  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    275
    Hello.

    Apparently there has been a misunderstanding.

    The client temporary changed his dns from our servers to his own personal DNS settings that he claims he owns (dnshoster.com?)

    The site has not been hacked....well it has but not recently.

    The client claims that his account was hacked on that previous server before he even changed to our servers. Now that he changed his DNS back to his previous server (after we provided him with a refund and he had retrieved his files), wouldn't it make sense that it would show his account on that server? (which according to him, had previously been hacked)

    His site is still up on our server. Here is the link:

    zeniors dot com /~malikai/

    Please remove the spaces and replace "dot" with a "."

    Regards,
    Zeeshan (Zeniors.com Admin)

    P.S. I apologize if my responses seem to be missing anything...have business to handle and this situation (even after refunds were provided) has proven to be a big setback.
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  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    55
    i think webtheme is a bit on the hyperactive side, but i also think that if i were to bitch out my own client (and i have!) - i'd do it either on the phone or in a personal chat/email- but not thru my site's professional ticketing system.

    some relationships just aren't meant to be. refund his money and let him go.

    -- >
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  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    275
    Originally posted by DoCk
    Ouch! Sorry Zeniors, you fail.

    Treating a customer like crap certainly isn't going to get you very far in this business.

    I do my duty, even for my "gallon of gas" customers. I know a lot of people wouldn't, but the low cost accounts can often lead to satisfied customers, which can lead to more accounts, and larger accounts... good word of mouth spreads, and so does bad.
    Hello.

    Thanks for your opinion in this matter "DoCk"

    I would like to ask you one thing though, if a customer called you on your house phone, even after you have promised a refund.

    Anyways, I never said that $3.95 was a small amount. If $3.95 was such a small amount, then why do I continue to charge such an amount?

    Unfortunately when a customer calls my HOUSE PHONE yelling for a refund of $3.95 and I offer a refund of $3.95 X 3 (for 3 months) and he is making it a big deal ...something that I am already providing, $3.95 becomes an amount that is not worth this much trouble.

    Once again, just my 2 cents. You are more than welcome to form your opinion as everyone has the right to do so.

    Why do you assume that this how we treat all our customers? We have not lost a customer in the last 3 months...oops, I can no longer say that. I have lost this one customer who seems to be blaming me for all his problems AND CALLING MY HOME PHONE ASKING FOR SOMETHING THAT I HAVE ALREADY STATED WILL BE PROVIDED.

    Once again, I admit that the email I sent him was not professional or business like, because this situation is no longer a business matter...it is a personal matter when someone calls my house and decides to yell (yell is an understatement) for $3.95 when I am already offering him all his money back so that he may choose a host that is right for him.

    Regards,
    Zeeshan (Zeniors.com Admin)
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  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Long Island, New York
    Posts
    220
    Wow, anger management, anyone? You're digging yourself into a hole here.
    TWSites.com - Business Web Hosting Solutions & Server Management Since 2003
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  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    275
    Hello.

    Just to clarify something, a FULL refund for every penny that was paid to us has already been sent via Paypal.

    Yet once again, I appreciate all of you that are taking either side and providing very useful feedback (without criticism we wouldn't have anything to improve on).

    Regards,
    Zeeshan (Zeniors.com admin)

    P.S. I will call it a quits on this issue. The facts have been layed out and anyone/everyone is free to make their own opinions. Thus far the company has proved to be successful by simple word of mouth advertising through satisfied customers and posts on the net will not hinder our success. Thank you for your time.
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  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    9,264
    Zeeshan,

    I've had multiple clients contact me (and I'm just a shift worker) via personal cell, personal e-mail, personal msn, etc. concerning support issues, other random things.

    You have to at least do your best to act professionally - no matter the situation even if it's three AM and a client wakes you up over something silly like their site being down but so is their "entire internet".

    Thats life - thats this industry, get used to it or find a new job.
    It doesn't matter what amount you're charging the user for - and I do agree with you with one thing: some users aren't worth it!

    That doesn't mean you need to tell them that upfront or scream, curse, etc.

    Act reasonably professional and the client will hopefully return the favour, doesn't work in every case but its pretty good.
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  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    8,154
    If a client emails you saying "You give me an explanation to what is going on with my website or I'll have to change my service providers". You certainly do not respond back giving the same attitude "Leave... we don't need your $3 for gas money anyways". You deal with it in the most professional manners as possible.

    I am not judging you or saying that you’re a bad host, I just wanted to express how I felt regarding this issue.

    Good luck
    Last edited by 1Ali; 05-26-2005 at 01:09 PM.
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  18. #18
    If him calling your house to complain is such a big deal, how did he get the number to begin with?
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  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    275
    Hello.

    Once again, this wasn't a normal phone call. When a client has been promised a refund and decides to call anyways CUSSING and yelling, not just yelling, CUSSING, unfortunately the client isn't worth any amount that they wish to provide.

    I have some clients that I would want to host even if they gave me $.25/month. These clients are the ones that form the backbone of my company and they can yell and scream all they want and I am always happy to provide them with what they need.

    HOWEVER, when a client calls my house and cusses at me, yelling is okay with me as it is human nature, but I will not stand someone cussing at me like a little child for such a pitiful situation.

    I apologize for posting again after I had stated that the previous post would be my last.

    Regards,
    Zeeshan (Zeniors.com Admin)
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  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    England
    Posts
    513
    This is absolutely hilarious. We have the client whose site has been defaced but hasn't appeared to do anything about it, and we have the host who, incredibly ironically, is questioning the age of the client!

    Zeniors.com, your lack of professionalism is absolutely astounding. I'm stunned. I don't know whether to gape in disbelief or burst out laughing!

    Do not try and defend yourself because I will tear apart every single shred of those ludicrous support responses.

    And to the client - you need to sort things out. You can't say "my site is down". You need to ping, traceroute, use dnsstuff.com to verify DNS, check your custom nameservers, and secure your site so it doesn't get hacked.
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  21. #21
    Im still curious how this person got his home phone number......
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  22. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    9,264
    Epsol,

    Google - does wonders.
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  23. #23
    Hmm..Let's see.

    Are you sure you didn't say $3.95 was a small amount?..I would double check your repsonse to my support ticket before saying that.

    Also, I did not call you and yell at you for a refund. Not once did I raise my voice. I simply wanted to let you know that treating people the way you treated me is not a wise idea. I am a very nice person and treat people the way they they treat me. You were under the misguided notion that you could put me down and that I would just cut my losses and forget it. You will not make the same mistake again.
    At least I did not post your phone number and home address.. That would have been rude and mean, which I am neither.

    Don't always be so quick to blame your customers. A business can't run successfully that way.


    Now, there is something I need to address..

    Originally posted by Zeniors.com
    The client temporary changed his dns from our servers to his own personal DNS settings that he claims he owns (dnshoster.com?)

    The site has not been hacked....well it has but not recently.

    The client claims that his account was hacked on that previous server before he even changed to our servers. Now that he changed his DNS back to his previous server (after we provided him with a refund and he had retrieved his files), wouldn't it make sense that it would show his account on that server? (which according to him, had previously been hacked)
    ]

    First, what exactly is dnhoster.com? I own SkyHoster.com. I am a reseller but mostly it's used for my own projects. I signed up with zeniors because I am starting a rather large project and I wanted that site on it's own hosting account.

    I found it strange that you brought up my site being hacked. My other hosting account was hacked, well, ad addon domain that hosted several other sites was hacked. It's funny that webtheme.us was hacked just minutes after my phone call to you. You had the username and password, my sites were hacked before but I already had my zeniors account when that happened. I'm checking my time logs to see what all matches..

    As for the refund. You seem to think that providing a refund takes the bad taste out of someones mouth. It's not about the money. You offer a 3 month refund I asked only for 2. That's great but do you think the Indians were happy being provided reservations after the Europeans took the land from them?

    Treat people well and they will do the same for you. Treat people like garbage and they will do the same for you.

    Hyperactive?? No..Just pissed
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  24. #24
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    374
    Zeniors-
    Part of the business is customer interaction. There will always be the occasional customer that walks in kicking and screaming from some other company and runs from you kicking screaming and cursing about things beyond control.

    To be a businessman requires an abnormally high ability to deal with the rudest of clients.

    If someone would call my home phone cursing me for their website being down, I would try to calm them down first, as if they are not calm they can not hear what I feel needs to be said. If they sit there and yell and curse, they're problems can not be fixed. If they do not allow you to speak, they should hang up and call again after they've processed their situation and calm down so that they are not just wasting time and patience.

    These are the sort of things which should be related to an unruly client. The fact that people bug you for things which aren't broken, or were only down for a short period of time, etc. will always happen. Though we'd all love to have the perfect clients all the time it cannot happen.

    In this instance it was basically a fault in both accounts, however, the host must always be the one to remain collected and to proceed in the correct manner.

    Even though he supposedly made it "personal," you definitely should not have responded, "personally."

    To the customer-
    It really is rude to call an owners house, unless of course, that number is listed on their website/support system. It would have been best for you to have calmly spoken to the host. He is, like yourself, a human being who is quite susceptible to anger and hostility.


    Here is something everyone should remember: The person on the other end of the phone is a normal human being, not the epitome of tranquility and wisdom.

    I say this as constructive criticism to both parties involved. May if be as helpful as it was intended to be. This is not a personal attack on either party. I am simply stating as I see and do not wish to make further posts on this subject. *I write this disclaimer as we are all human beings here, susceptible to mis-interpretation and poor judgement.*


    Have a nice day.
    TS-Host, A Tulip Company - Hosting since 1995! - AS7219
    Shared Hosting, Reseller Hosting, Bargain Dedicated Servers and High performance Dedicated!
    http://www.ts-host.com/ -@- dburling@ts-host.com -@- 1-800-977-TOWN
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  25. #25
    Cussing???? You have lost your mind sir..If I had the time or inclination I would post the phone call.....Yes, I did record it. I keep track of everything..

    His number was easy to find.. All you need is a name..

    The site is no still hacked and hasn't been for a while now. I changed it as soon as I saw it was hacked.

    I would like to know how it was hacked. There is not forum attached to the site right now. But I will find out.
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