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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    271

    Account was hacked?

    Hello.

    This is an issue I am having with an individual whos website I used to host. Any opinions on the matter are greatly appreciated.

    I currently host...well no longer do but am still dealing with a customer who seems to always claim that his site has been down. However, at the time of his claims, he was logging in to our ticket system that is located on the same server. Because of his persistent claims and rather rude comments, I have, at numerous times, informed him that for every month that he was unsatisfied, a refund will be provided.

    Just recently, I have given him a refund for all three months that he hosted with us. However, he is now calling my house phone and asking why I stated that on his homempage, his site says "hacked."

    Once again, he claims that he cannot view his website (webtheme dot us) and that when he does, it does not say "hacked." For some reason, it seems that he is assuming that I have something to do with his site.

    During the phone call, he stated that the website was hacked previously, but that was before he transferred to my server. Now that he changed his DNS back to his previous nameservers, why is he still bugging me about this "hacked" issue?

    I would appreciate your comments and opinions on this issue. By the way, the client was paying $3.95/month (which has been FULLY refunded...not one penny was kept). When you visit "webtheme dot us" what do you see?



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    Last edited by SoftWareRevue; 05-26-2005 at 12:57 PM.
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  2. #2
    we know about this and we seen the responce you gave him (unprofessional).it does seem odd that you had a problem with this cliant and all a sudden his site is hacked?
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Chennai , India
    Posts
    4,608
    you are nice host, just to say.

    No host will refund for such issues, if the site is not hacked.

    I recieve this,Hacked by Dj_Raven the Nightmare Defacer

    The funny thing is

    <body bgcolor="#000000" text="#00ff00"
    <img src="http://www.freewebs.com/defacements/dj_raven.JPG"><font color="#ffffff" face="Fixedsys" size="7"></font></p><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><font color="#ffffff" face="Fixedsys" size="7"<div align="right">Hacked by Dj_Raven the Nightmare Defacer<br />
    IF the site is hacked, no potential hacker would host the images from an free host.

    he is crap.
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  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Merville BC
    Posts
    608
    Shows site was hacked.

    Is he running some sort of php/mysql site? If so, its the customers responsibility to patch/update/secure his own site - not the hosting providers.
    Three out of four people make up 75 percent of the population
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  5. #5
    here is a post that will make sense to this one
    http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showth...hreadid=408840
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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Chennai , India
    Posts
    4,608
    Originally posted by okanagantech
    Shows site was hacked.

    Is he running some sort of php/mysql site? If so, its the customers responsibility to patch/update/secure his own site - not the hosting providers.
    Host must take down, a hacker cannot hack if the security is tight from the server side.

    if he uses PHPBB without any update their might be a chance for SQL INJECTION.
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  7. #7
    According to the email that the client shared with everyone in his/her post, you were highly unprofessional and disrespectful. Just wondering what the user wrote in his/her email that made you react the way you did.

    The way you reacted, no matter what sort of an e-mail the client sent, was highly unprofessional.

    Nowhere that he stated that his site has been getting hacked since his/her previous host. Nor did he mention that you had refunded him/her the full amount paid.

    Regarding the site being hacked, unless it was a security hole in the server. IMO it would be the client's responsiblity to make sure he/she is using secure passwords and not using any scripts that would allow for their site to be hacked.

    There is always two sides to every story
    Last edited by WireNine; 05-26-2005 at 12:12 PM.
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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    271
    Hello.

    This reply is for "WN-Ali":

    This reply was sent after the person (name cannot be revealed for apparent reasons) called my house phone yelling for a refund even after we had promised one for all three months.

    Keep in mind that this phone call was not a normal phone call with a proper tone. Here I am at home...and I receive a phone call with a person claiming that I have deleted his files from my sever and that he demands a refund and he is using very interesting (insulting) language demanding a refund. I do not understand why a person would do this after we have already promised a refund. Unfortunately the phone call is not something I can provide proof of but I will love to post the previous ticket exchanges:

    Client: March 25th, 2005 12:05 AM

    "Hello,
    My website is down. This is not good.
    "webtheme dot us"

    Please tell me what is going on.
    Seth"


    Tech Support: March 25th, 2005 1:13 AM

    "Hello Seth.

    Thanks for contacting Zeniors support.

    We have terminated some accounts that were clogging up the server and now all sites are working properly. We appreciate you informing us on this matter.

    Regards,
    Zeniors Web Services

    ------Thank you for hosting with Zeniors Web Services!------
    ------Please feel free to contact us ANYTIME of the day!------"



    Client: March 27th, 2005 2:47 PM

    "Hello,

    March 27th
    3:41 PM EST

    My site is down again. This is the second time in a week. You make the claim of 99.9 uptime. I am about to launch a very large website and I need to know that your service is reliable. I can't afford this much downtime. I moved to your service because my old host was down all the time.

    Why is my site down again?
    What will you do to insure that this won't happen again?

    Seth"





    Client (same ticket): March 27th, 2005 6:30 PM

    "March 27th
    7:24PM EST

    Still down."



    Client (same ticket): March 27th, 2005 8:07 PM

    "March 27th
    9:02PM EST
    Still down.

    If this happens ever again I will have to cancel and move to a more reliable host."


    Tech Support: March 27th, 2005 8:15 PM

    "Hello Seth.

    Thanks for contacting Zeniors support.

    Actually buddy, our server appears to be running just fine. Have you been unable to access your site all day? Perhaps your IP has been blocked.

    Visit "whatismyip dot com" and send me your IP and I will have it removed from the block list (if it is on there).

    Anyways, we have decided to terminate numerous accounts that have been clogging up the server. This will definitely increase server performance.

    Please let me know if your site has been unavailable all day or if it was just certain occassions.

    If you decide to change to a new host, we will stick to our promise and provide you with a full refund.

    Regards,
    Zeniors Web Services

    ------Thank you for hosting with Zeniors Web Services!------
    ------Please feel free to contact us ANYTIME of the day!------"



    Client (Same ticket): March 28th, 2005 9:31 AM

    "My IP is **.**.**.**

    Monday March 28th
    10:26AM

    Site is still down.
    Why would my IP be blocked?"



    Tech Support: March 28th, 2005 10:50 AM

    "Hello Seth.

    Thanks for contacting Zeniors support.

    We have a security measure in place that bans the IP of anyone who fails to type in the password correctly within three consecutive tries. However, I do not think your IP is blocked because you would not be able to access our site either.

    Perhaps you may want to clean out your cache. Just as before, your site is working properly. I have checked it on numerous computers. Perhaps you may want to ask one of your friends whether your site is visible or not for both our satisfaction.

    Once again, has it been "down" this entire time or is it just it works sometimes and doesn't at other times? Perhaps you should try from another computer or ask a friend to view the site just to be certain that it is your computer causing the problem and not our servers.

    When I visit your site, I see a big logo which says "Putting a happy face on the web."

    Regards,
    Zeniors Web Services

    ------Thank you for hosting with Zeniors Web Services!------
    ------Please feel free to contact us ANYTIME of the day!------"


    There are numerous other exchanges that will be posted later so that I do not flood the forum.

    Keep in mind that the reason the email was so unprofessional was because it is no longer a professional issue, it is a personal issue. When a person calls your house and decides to yell and cuss on the phone, the situation becomes personal...and is no longer a business matter.

    Regards,
    Zeeshan (Zeniors.com admin)

    P.S. All of you that have posted in this forum, your opinions are greatly appreciated and your point of view is considered to be constructive criticism on my part. I am neither here to argue nor to prove anything, simply going to provide facts so that you may form an educated opinion of the matter.

    Keep in mind that the client STILL cannot view his site...even when it is no longer on our server (told me this on the phone...blamed me for the "hacked" page on his domain even though his domain doesn't reside on my server). Apparently there is a problem with his internet access.
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  9. #9
    Just to clear something up.

    My site was hacked by the defacer on a different host.

    I moved my site to my other host within the last 24 hours and it was hacked within that time frame.

    Zeniors keeps saying I "claimed" my site was down and then says it's my fault.

    It's all very simple. You treated a customer like garbage. That is how you lose customers. When you say things like

    " I still think that the problem is on your part and am trying to make you happy by saying otherwise. You are more than welcome to leave as you pay $3.95/month...I can even buy a burger with that." -Zeniors

    And

    "Perhaps you should learn to correct your attitude and stop blaming others so that others don blame you for your ridiculous comments" - Zeniors

    And

    "nyways, your $3.95 isn worth my time" - Zeniors

    And

    "If I may ask, how old are you? You sound like a middle aged individual that learned a few things about computers and thinks that he knows everything now. Once again, perhaps you should consider why we are the ones making money...while you are the one constantly complaining about issues that don exist. " - Zeniors

    And

    "We love serving our customers with respect and give them more than they pay for...however, we expect respect in return and your $3.95 (1.5 gallons of gas) isn enough to stop us from returning your ridiculous, unconfirmed comments with the same tone that you wish to speak to us with. Neither do I expect my respected support techs to take such insulting comments from ..... will leave out the unnecessary words that I would use to describe you." - Zeniors


    No matter what I said, you are wrong. You don't treat your customers that way unless you want to fail in business.
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  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Long Island, New York
    Posts
    220
    Ouch! Sorry Zeniors, you fail.

    Treating a customer like crap certainly isn't going to get you very far in this business.

    I do my duty, even for my "gallon of gas" customers. I know a lot of people wouldn't, but the low cost accounts can often lead to satisfied customers, which can lead to more accounts, and larger accounts... good word of mouth spreads, and so does bad.
    TWSites.com - Business Web Hosting Solutions & Server Management Since 2003
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  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    271
    Hello.

    Apparently there has been a misunderstanding.

    The client temporary changed his dns from our servers to his own personal DNS settings that he claims he owns (dnshoster.com?)

    The site has not been hacked....well it has but not recently.

    The client claims that his account was hacked on that previous server before he even changed to our servers. Now that he changed his DNS back to his previous server (after we provided him with a refund and he had retrieved his files), wouldn't it make sense that it would show his account on that server? (which according to him, had previously been hacked)

    His site is still up on our server. Here is the link:

    zeniors dot com /~malikai/

    Please remove the spaces and replace "dot" with a "."

    Regards,
    Zeeshan (Zeniors.com Admin)

    P.S. I apologize if my responses seem to be missing anything...have business to handle and this situation (even after refunds were provided) has proven to be a big setback.
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  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    55
    i think webtheme is a bit on the hyperactive side, but i also think that if i were to bitch out my own client (and i have!) - i'd do it either on the phone or in a personal chat/email- but not thru my site's professional ticketing system.

    some relationships just aren't meant to be. refund his money and let him go.

    -- >
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  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    271
    Originally posted by DoCk
    Ouch! Sorry Zeniors, you fail.

    Treating a customer like crap certainly isn't going to get you very far in this business.

    I do my duty, even for my "gallon of gas" customers. I know a lot of people wouldn't, but the low cost accounts can often lead to satisfied customers, which can lead to more accounts, and larger accounts... good word of mouth spreads, and so does bad.
    Hello.

    Thanks for your opinion in this matter "DoCk"

    I would like to ask you one thing though, if a customer called you on your house phone, even after you have promised a refund.

    Anyways, I never said that $3.95 was a small amount. If $3.95 was such a small amount, then why do I continue to charge such an amount?

    Unfortunately when a customer calls my HOUSE PHONE yelling for a refund of $3.95 and I offer a refund of $3.95 X 3 (for 3 months) and he is making it a big deal ...something that I am already providing, $3.95 becomes an amount that is not worth this much trouble.

    Once again, just my 2 cents. You are more than welcome to form your opinion as everyone has the right to do so.

    Why do you assume that this how we treat all our customers? We have not lost a customer in the last 3 months...oops, I can no longer say that. I have lost this one customer who seems to be blaming me for all his problems AND CALLING MY HOME PHONE ASKING FOR SOMETHING THAT I HAVE ALREADY STATED WILL BE PROVIDED.

    Once again, I admit that the email I sent him was not professional or business like, because this situation is no longer a business matter...it is a personal matter when someone calls my house and decides to yell (yell is an understatement) for $3.95 when I am already offering him all his money back so that he may choose a host that is right for him.

    Regards,
    Zeeshan (Zeniors.com Admin)
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  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Long Island, New York
    Posts
    220
    Wow, anger management, anyone? You're digging yourself into a hole here.
    TWSites.com - Business Web Hosting Solutions & Server Management Since 2003
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  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    271
    Hello.

    Just to clarify something, a FULL refund for every penny that was paid to us has already been sent via Paypal.

    Yet once again, I appreciate all of you that are taking either side and providing very useful feedback (without criticism we wouldn't have anything to improve on).

    Regards,
    Zeeshan (Zeniors.com admin)

    P.S. I will call it a quits on this issue. The facts have been layed out and anyone/everyone is free to make their own opinions. Thus far the company has proved to be successful by simple word of mouth advertising through satisfied customers and posts on the net will not hinder our success. Thank you for your time.
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  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    8,985
    Zeeshan,

    I've had multiple clients contact me (and I'm just a shift worker) via personal cell, personal e-mail, personal msn, etc. concerning support issues, other random things.

    You have to at least do your best to act professionally - no matter the situation even if it's three AM and a client wakes you up over something silly like their site being down but so is their "entire internet".

    Thats life - thats this industry, get used to it or find a new job.
    It doesn't matter what amount you're charging the user for - and I do agree with you with one thing: some users aren't worth it!

    That doesn't mean you need to tell them that upfront or scream, curse, etc.

    Act reasonably professional and the client will hopefully return the favour, doesn't work in every case but its pretty good.
    David
    Web hosting by Fused — For businesses with more important things to do than worry about their hosting.
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  17. #17
    If a client emails you saying "You give me an explanation to what is going on with my website or I'll have to change my service providers". You certainly do not respond back giving the same attitude "Leave... we don't need your $3 for gas money anyways". You deal with it in the most professional manners as possible.

    I am not judging you or saying that you’re a bad host, I just wanted to express how I felt regarding this issue.

    Good luck
    Last edited by WireNine; 05-26-2005 at 01:09 PM.
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  18. #18
    If him calling your house to complain is such a big deal, how did he get the number to begin with?
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  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    271
    Hello.

    Once again, this wasn't a normal phone call. When a client has been promised a refund and decides to call anyways CUSSING and yelling, not just yelling, CUSSING, unfortunately the client isn't worth any amount that they wish to provide.

    I have some clients that I would want to host even if they gave me $.25/month. These clients are the ones that form the backbone of my company and they can yell and scream all they want and I am always happy to provide them with what they need.

    HOWEVER, when a client calls my house and cusses at me, yelling is okay with me as it is human nature, but I will not stand someone cussing at me like a little child for such a pitiful situation.

    I apologize for posting again after I had stated that the previous post would be my last.

    Regards,
    Zeeshan (Zeniors.com Admin)
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  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    England
    Posts
    513
    This is absolutely hilarious. We have the client whose site has been defaced but hasn't appeared to do anything about it, and we have the host who, incredibly ironically, is questioning the age of the client!

    Zeniors.com, your lack of professionalism is absolutely astounding. I'm stunned. I don't know whether to gape in disbelief or burst out laughing!

    Do not try and defend yourself because I will tear apart every single shred of those ludicrous support responses.

    And to the client - you need to sort things out. You can't say "my site is down". You need to ping, traceroute, use dnsstuff.com to verify DNS, check your custom nameservers, and secure your site so it doesn't get hacked.
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  21. #21
    Im still curious how this person got his home phone number......
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  22. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    8,985
    Epsol,

    Google - does wonders.
    David
    Web hosting by Fused — For businesses with more important things to do than worry about their hosting.
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  23. #23
    Hmm..Let's see.

    Are you sure you didn't say $3.95 was a small amount?..I would double check your repsonse to my support ticket before saying that.

    Also, I did not call you and yell at you for a refund. Not once did I raise my voice. I simply wanted to let you know that treating people the way you treated me is not a wise idea. I am a very nice person and treat people the way they they treat me. You were under the misguided notion that you could put me down and that I would just cut my losses and forget it. You will not make the same mistake again.
    At least I did not post your phone number and home address.. That would have been rude and mean, which I am neither.

    Don't always be so quick to blame your customers. A business can't run successfully that way.


    Now, there is something I need to address..

    Originally posted by Zeniors.com
    The client temporary changed his dns from our servers to his own personal DNS settings that he claims he owns (dnshoster.com?)

    The site has not been hacked....well it has but not recently.

    The client claims that his account was hacked on that previous server before he even changed to our servers. Now that he changed his DNS back to his previous server (after we provided him with a refund and he had retrieved his files), wouldn't it make sense that it would show his account on that server? (which according to him, had previously been hacked)
    ]

    First, what exactly is dnhoster.com? I own SkyHoster.com. I am a reseller but mostly it's used for my own projects. I signed up with zeniors because I am starting a rather large project and I wanted that site on it's own hosting account.

    I found it strange that you brought up my site being hacked. My other hosting account was hacked, well, ad addon domain that hosted several other sites was hacked. It's funny that webtheme.us was hacked just minutes after my phone call to you. You had the username and password, my sites were hacked before but I already had my zeniors account when that happened. I'm checking my time logs to see what all matches..

    As for the refund. You seem to think that providing a refund takes the bad taste out of someones mouth. It's not about the money. You offer a 3 month refund I asked only for 2. That's great but do you think the Indians were happy being provided reservations after the Europeans took the land from them?

    Treat people well and they will do the same for you. Treat people like garbage and they will do the same for you.

    Hyperactive?? No..Just pissed
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  24. #24
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    374
    Zeniors-
    Part of the business is customer interaction. There will always be the occasional customer that walks in kicking and screaming from some other company and runs from you kicking screaming and cursing about things beyond control.

    To be a businessman requires an abnormally high ability to deal with the rudest of clients.

    If someone would call my home phone cursing me for their website being down, I would try to calm them down first, as if they are not calm they can not hear what I feel needs to be said. If they sit there and yell and curse, they're problems can not be fixed. If they do not allow you to speak, they should hang up and call again after they've processed their situation and calm down so that they are not just wasting time and patience.

    These are the sort of things which should be related to an unruly client. The fact that people bug you for things which aren't broken, or were only down for a short period of time, etc. will always happen. Though we'd all love to have the perfect clients all the time it cannot happen.

    In this instance it was basically a fault in both accounts, however, the host must always be the one to remain collected and to proceed in the correct manner.

    Even though he supposedly made it "personal," you definitely should not have responded, "personally."

    To the customer-
    It really is rude to call an owners house, unless of course, that number is listed on their website/support system. It would have been best for you to have calmly spoken to the host. He is, like yourself, a human being who is quite susceptible to anger and hostility.


    Here is something everyone should remember: The person on the other end of the phone is a normal human being, not the epitome of tranquility and wisdom.

    I say this as constructive criticism to both parties involved. May if be as helpful as it was intended to be. This is not a personal attack on either party. I am simply stating as I see and do not wish to make further posts on this subject. *I write this disclaimer as we are all human beings here, susceptible to mis-interpretation and poor judgement.*


    Have a nice day.
    TS-Host, A Tulip Company - Hosting since 1995! - AS7219
    Shared Hosting, Reseller Hosting, Bargain Dedicated Servers and High performance Dedicated!
    http://www.ts-host.com/ -@- [email protected] -@- 1-800-977-TOWN
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  25. #25
    Cussing???? You have lost your mind sir..If I had the time or inclination I would post the phone call.....Yes, I did record it. I keep track of everything..

    His number was easy to find.. All you need is a name..

    The site is no still hacked and hasn't been for a while now. I changed it as soon as I saw it was hacked.

    I would like to know how it was hacked. There is not forum attached to the site right now. But I will find out.
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  26. #26
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    374
    All you need is a name, yes. However, to call someone's home phone number, if not listed on the company's website or support system pages is quite rude. In that instance, on the phone, you are calling the man as himself, rather than calling the man as a hoster. If his number was listed on the website, then the above statement does not hold true. If a number is on the website you are always calling the businessman.

    I will not go into the cursing part, as there seems to be a dispute as to whether or not the conversing on your part was "colorful." So, if there was no cursing on your part, consider the message to him as non-specific to your case, but more as specifcations of customer interaction.

    I would like to make an alter to my previous post.
    As an amendment to the following line:"I am simply stating as I see and do not wish to make further posts on this subject": I would like to rephrase into, "I am simply stating as I see and do not wish to make responses in defense of my statements, as nothign I have said was meant to be entirely personal



    Have a nice day.
    TS-Host, A Tulip Company - Hosting since 1995! - AS7219
    Shared Hosting, Reseller Hosting, Bargain Dedicated Servers and High performance Dedicated!
    http://www.ts-host.com/ -@- [email protected] -@- 1-800-977-TOWN
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  27. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Posts
    2,762
    OK, simple thing made into a BIG issue...

    Zeniors:

    1. Zeniors support staff SUX. You're RUDE, you're unprofessional, and worst of all, you're treating him like some idiot or something like that.

    2. Have you ever hear of "The Customer Is Always Right"?

    3. How did he get your House Phone if it was not given or something from you to him in some way,form or another? If you did not, do you know you could always call the COPS on him?

    4. If you're looking for our opinion, we're giving it to you. DO NOT and I mean NEVER treat your customers like crap. They are people and no matter what they do or say, they are still paying you!!! Refund or not, it's still business ethics. Perhaps you too should go read up on that a little?

    5. If you think he's such a pain, then why not just offer "perhaps Sir, I could recommend you to another webhosting company as we do not think we could fulfill your request?" Easy?

    6. Don't be childish and talk the way you do. It's not helping, it's only called "digging your own grave".


    malikai :

    1. Don't waste your time over the webhoster who says such things to you.

    2. Never trust an Ebay webhosting company (at least I don't).

    3. Since he refunded your money to you, I guess it's all resolved right? No point argueing over spilt milk anymore. Just never go back to them and if you really want, just show people how childish they are.
    Aaron Ong
    Dedicated Servers - 100TB Servers - 100Mbps Unmetered Servers - Web Hosting - CDN Network
    Servers in Central, East/West Coast USA, EUROPE and ASIA
    Welltodo Century
    - www.welltodocentury.com
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  28. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    271
    Originally posted by Tulip-Dennis
    Zeniors-
    Part of the business is customer interaction. There will always be the occasional customer that walks in kicking and screaming from some other company and runs from you kicking screaming and cursing about things beyond control.

    .......

    Have a nice day.
    Hello.

    WOW! Now your reply is something that anyone would consider constructive criticism. I really do appreciate your insight and do understand that dealing with customers requires a lot of patience. Honestly, I have NEVER been in a fight with any customer, simply because I have never been cussed at.

    Now, if anyone decides to cuss at me, I typically do not reply and prefer to simply avoid the situation. Call me a whimp if you may but I would prefer to avoid confrontations with angry people until they are calmer and I would not mind helping them to reach such a state of mind. Simply put, I do not believe any amount of money is worth putting up with such language as money is simply not the focus here. The focus is RESPECT! I will treat a person with respect as long as they do the same. After that, if the person is a customer and insists and discluding respect from his words, then I will return the customers money as my sole purpose is not simply to earn money.

    I do not see how people can claim that the sole purpose of anyone selling on eBay is to make money even after both myself and the opposing party (the client) have verified that the refunds were provided....

    And for the claims that I hacked his account, that is just absurd and childish. Notice that the client's DNS has not changed from "skyhoster" but the screen "hacked" has been removed.

    Anyways, "Tulip-Dennis," I honestly do appreciate your well thought out comments and respect your point of view and truly do not believe that the way I behaved was professional. I have repeatedly stated that the way I responded was NOT professional, BUT, I do not feel that anyone should be cussing over a simple hosting account...one that is still active and fully accessible.

    Regards,
    Zeeshan (Zeniors.com Admin)
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  29. #29
    For what its worth - and after reading both threads - heres my feedback -

    Zeniors - NEVER, EVER speak to customers like that - if they are calling you at home and you dont want to speak to clients at home - get an unlisted number, block any numbers you dont want to receive, etc... As the provider, it is your responsibility to keep it professional and not take it personally - A simple - sorry we arent a good fit, I have refunded your money - please remove all your data from our servers within x # of hours wouldve sufficed - the rest is just rhetoric and isnt required or justified.... Regarding the price of your hosting - charge more, or dont complain about how little you are charging -

    malikai - if your website is this important to you, and youve been through a couple of bad experiences - pay a little more, from an established provider and receive better overall service - you cannot expect a company to support you for $3.95 a month - obviously they have crossed the line - and maybe you have as well.. Having said all this - have you confirmed that your website was truely down - ie have you checked from multiple locations - maybe you do have a local cache/isp issue....
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  30. #30
    As I stated in the other thread.

    I forgive you..


    But..
    Just to clarify again..
    I own skyhoster.com. WebTheme.us is now being hosted by me. The hacked page was removed, by me.

    I never outright accused you of hacking my site, I just pointed out the timing involved and the fact that you have access to my information and were already mad at me..


    aodat2, it is not illegal to call someone. His number is publicly available..

    And for the last time..At no point in our conversation did I cuss or raise my voice. It appears that I will have to make the conversation publicly available..
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  31. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    271
    Originally posted by CartikaHosting
    For what its worth - and after reading both threads - heres my feedback -

    malikai - if your website is this important to you, and youve been through a couple of bad experiences - pay a little more, from an established provider and receive better overall service - you cannot expect a company to support you for $3.95 a month - obviously they have crossed the line - and maybe you have as well.. Having said all this - have you confirmed that your website was truely down - ie have you checked from multiple locations - maybe you do have a local cache/isp issue....
    Hello.

    CartikaHosting:

    I agree with your position 100% and do realize that in business, nothing should be taken personally and I am using this as a stepping stone and wish to grow from this...not look back at it with any bad feelings.

    As for your reply, I can't help but thank you for your constructive criticism that I do plan on implementing in the future. Without a doubt anger should not be expressed and I will NEVER claim that I did not make a mistake by expressing myself in the manner that I did to this customer.

    To the WHT users:

    I thank you for your comments and apparently you guys have much more experience than me and you can be sure that your comments will be taken as constructive criticism that I can learn and grow from and NOTHING is taken as insulting (aside from cussing).

    Anyways, I know that whether it is yelling or cussing, you have to stay professional. This has been a great experience and everyone's time is greatly appreciated.

    Regards,
    Zeeshan
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  32. #32
    CartikaHosting,
    The question of my double checking has been answered quite a few times across the 2 threads devoted to this subject..

    I have two computers at home, I checked both of them. I have two people in Seattle (across the country) that I also have check before I send a ticket. When everyone has confirmed that the site is down, I send a ticket. I follow the same steps everytime.
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  33. #33
    As for your reply, I can't help but thank you for your constructive criticism that I do plan on implementing in the future. Without a doubt anger should not be expressed and I will NEVER claim that I did not make a mistake by expressing myself in the manner that I did to this customer.
    Glad you didnt take this personally - and very pleased to hear this will not be repeated - believe me - this sort of thing can hurt you - and theres no reason to hurt your business like this - Im certain you will handle this better in the future...

    I have two computers at home, I checked both of them. I have two people in Seattle (across the country) that I also have check before I send a ticket. When everyone has confirmed that the site is down, I send a ticket. I follow the same steps everytime.
    Fair enough - since you are a provider as well - Im sure you have heard the old - my site is down - when clearly it is not... Someone else has suggested this and I tend to agree with them - make sure you ping IP,s perform trace routes, etc... I once had a client say his sites were down - and clearly nothing was down - however a traceroute showed that sprint was dropping somewhere around the 4th or 5th hop - meaning, a major failure somewhere along the line was blocking my client and his friends from viewing the sites - however, anyone not routing through sprint was fine. This only lasted around 10 minutes - however, we never wouldve figured out what was happening if it wasnt for the traceroute. Not saying this was the case here - but, just an example of you never know until you run all the tests...
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  34. #34
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    271
    Hello.

    As far as calling me being illegal, I am not sure about that. Anyone is free to call me at anytime, day or night.

    As for this issue, apparently it is being given far too much attention than necessary.

    Good luck with your new host and good luck with your current reseller account with whoever you may have it hosted with.

    All things aside, I must agree that the response you received is not professional, but including this thing about "hacking" and calling me back regarding this "hacking" issue and then hanging up on me (or maybe the line simply disconnected...not blaming you) in my opinion (its just an opinion and don't expect you to agree) is not proper.

    Anyways, I guess dealing with customers on eBay has wrongfully made me to presume that all my customers are not too experienced with the concept of hosting.

    By all means I do plan on advertising by means other than eBay as eBay not only ruins a company's reputation and makes them seem desperate, but it also attracts those who are simply looking to use hosting for the wrong purposes (warez, illegal file sharing, etc.)

    As stated earlier, this has come to be a learning experience. Good luck to all!

    Regards,
    Zeeshan
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  35. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Northwest Colorado
    Posts
    4,630
    Zeeshan, you need to learn the first rule of customer service. Treat the customer with respect.

    I don't care if he's yelling, rude, cussing or whatever. The correct way to handle such a customer is something like:

    "I'm sorry you feel that way, sir. Please calm down, and I'm sure we can work together to resolve this issue."

    When you start backsassing, because you feel you're being 'disrespected', you only escalate the situation, not to mention the blood pressure of everyone involved. DEFUSE the situation.

    The worst possible thing you can do is start denigrating the customer for not paying enough for their hosting. You set your prices, anyone who pays them has a reasonable expectation of professional conduct at whatever price you set. If $3.95 doesn't buy any respect from you, then for Pete's sake raise your prices to a level which will.

    You state that losing $3.95/month isn't a big deal. That's just the wrong way to look at it. You have lost a customer who, if satisfied, could not only contract with you for more services down the road, but recommend your service to others as well. Very shortsighted, IMHO.

    Now for my mantra:

    Respect is something which must be given to a customer, not demanded of them.
    Eric J. Bowman, principal
    Bison Systems Corporation coming soon: a new sig!
    I'm just a poor, unfrozen caveman Webmaster. Your new 'standards' frighten, and confuse me...
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  36. #36
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    374
    Originally posted by Zeniors.com
    As for this issue, apparently it is being given far too much attention than necessary.
    Agreed. Any further posts, I think, should be viewed as beating a dead horse.

    Originally posted by Zeniors.com As stated earlier, this has come to be a learning experience.
    This is most likely the best place to learn when it comes to hosting and people skills.
    **edited to fix my quote. Took me twice


    Have a nice day, and hosting business.
    TS-Host, A Tulip Company - Hosting since 1995! - AS7219
    Shared Hosting, Reseller Hosting, Bargain Dedicated Servers and High performance Dedicated!
    http://www.ts-host.com/ -@- [email protected] -@- 1-800-977-TOWN
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  37. #37
    I didn't hang up..My cell battery died..
    At any rate.. I have vented enough and feel this issue is settled..
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  38. #38
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    23
    Originally posted by malikai
    Yes, I did record it. I keep track of everything..
    Do I understand you to say that you recorded your phone conversation? I'm not an attorney, but isn't that illegal without the other person being told?
      0 Not allowed!

  39. #39
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    271
    Hello.

    If everyone is okay with it, I request that the admins please go ahead and close this thread.

    Thanks for your time. Apparently "malikai" is owed an apology and I would prefer to do that on the phone (too mushy to be on the net ).

    As for customer service, I agree 100% that the way I behaved is not business like and apparently my patience has not developed as required in this field but do plan on simply learning from this issue and I am sure everyone agrees that experience always (typically) helps in any field.

    Good luck to all!

    Regards,
    Zeeshan
      0 Not allowed!

  40. #40
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Texas, where else?
    Posts
    1,571
    I was going to put this in the related thread but it was closed while I was typing.

    This whole deal looks like a cluster monkey to me.
    (1) The site is trying to sell web site themes, why would the site owner be looking on eBay or anywhere else for a $4 host? I know I wouldn't be very confident in buying a template from someone on less than a top notch host (if I were a template buyer). So something is fishy there to start with (IMHO)
    (2) Regardless of whatever the customer said (short of profane ranting) there is NEVER a reason to insult a customer. Seems like the need for a book or 2 on customer relations and/or business communications skills. POLITELY ask them to find another host if you wish (after all you had refunded all their money) if that is your option of last resort but the "response" posted (if it was accurate) would never be justified.
    (3) To all comments about age they are inappropriate under any circumstance just like comments about race, gender, etc.
    If (presuming the quote was accurate) I ever received anything like that I know my way around the dot gov sites well enough to initiate an age discrimination complaint that would probably not gain me a nickel but would cost you time and/or money having to answer it.

    Personally I would surmise I am older than the vast majority of those here. While I have been involved with web sites & hosting since 1996 it was never my primary business until a disability put drastic limits on my physical activity. However as someone pointed out I have leaned a lot on the journey from my old Apple II (some of you guys aren't old enough to remember when you had to insert the 5 1/4" floppy with the drivers on it to print)
    However my years of business experience are of benefit just as essential as "tech" knowledge in this business.
    So while as a host I'm not "in the market" anyone who "talks down" to me because of my age or disability or whatever would NEVER stand a chance of getting my business no matter how good they were.
    New Idea Hosting NO Overselling-Business-Grade, Shared Only! New-In House Design Team.
    High Speed & Uptime; , DIY Pro-Site Builder-Daily Backups-Custom Plans, All Dual Xeon Quad Intel servers w/ ECC DDR3 RAM SCSI RAID minimums.
    We Concentrate on Shared Hosting ...doing one thing and doing it VERY well
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