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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    208

    DOTREGISTRAR - Fraud or Misconduct?

    Hi Everyone,

    I have backordered a domain at dotregistrar.com (which was originally registered at their company before the

    expiration). Backordering costs 1 DRY (DRY is their unit of purchase) according to their terms, and if the domain is acquired

    by them and if I am the first one in the queue, I will be charged another 4 DRYs and will be given the domain.

    I asked them very clearly on multiple occasions what would happen in the case I don't have 4 DRYs in my account when (and if)

    they manage to register the domain for me. And, for all the inquiries I sent (to make sure that this is the case), I was told

    by various representatives of dotregistrar that I would be contacted and given 24 hours if I don't have 4DRYs before they

    give it to the next person in line. I have proof (e-mails are below) for these inquiries. Furthermore, as far as I can

    remember, I contacted them one time by phone to confirm this and got the same answer!

    However, when the domain expired, ALTHOUGH I WAS THE FIRST PERSON IN LINE AND WAS PROMISED THAT I WOULD BE CONTACTED (below is the proof), I was not contacted and was told that it was given to someone else simply because there was not 4 DRYs in my account.

    Below is the long explanation of this matter, but can you guys please provide suggestions/assistance as to what can be done at this point other than complaining to ICANN (which is something I already did)?

    Thanks a lot!

    PS: I have modified domains/e-mails below for providing privacy on both sides!

    ####################################################################
    FIRST E-MAIL THREAD:

    MY QUESTION (via email):
    ------------------------
    From: [email protected]
    To: [email protected]
    Subject: Re: [crm.dotregistrar.com] 9. Other

    Hi,

    Can I purchase these 4 DRYs after and if I get the domain via DomWish?
    I thought your web page says that they should be purchased before. If
    not, would it be possible to cash those DRYs back?

    Furthermore, can you please tell how much a DRY is?

    Thanks...


    DOT REGISTRAR REPLY:
    --------------------

    From: [email protected]
    To: [email protected]
    Subject: [crm.dotregistrar.com] 9. Other

    Dear XYZ,

    Yes, you can purchase the 4 drys when the DomWish registers the domain.
    You have only 24 hours to do this since the domain is registered,
    If the service does not register the domain name then you can ask for a
    reund on your drys,

    Best Regards,
    ####################################################################
    SECOND E-MAIL THREAD:

    MY QUESTION (via support ticket):
    ---------------------------------

    email:[email protected]
    account:DomWish Question
    comments:

    Hi,

    I have back ordered a domain with Domwish, and have a quick question
    for which I have confusing information:

    What happens if DomWish manages to acquire the domain for me, but I
    don't have enough DRYs available? I was told that I will be warned
    about this and will be given 24 hours to put 4DRYs in my account.
    But looking at the FAQ for DOMWish, it ways:

    Q- What happens if I do not have 4 DRYs available?
    A- The domain will be assigned to the next applicant who has at least
    4 DRYs.]

    Can you please clarify this and tell me which one is correct?
    Thank you,


    DOT REGISTRAR REPLY:
    --------------------

    From: [email protected]
    To: [email protected]
    Subject: [crm.dotregistrar.com] 11. Other

    Dear XYZ,

    Thanks for your e-mail and sorry for the delay.

    If you do not have any available DRYs in your account and you "won" the
    domain name, you will be noticed by mail.

    --

    Best regards,
    ####################################################################
    THIRD E-MAIL THREAD:

    MY QUESTION (via support ticket):
    ---------------------------------

    email:[email protected]
    account:XYZ
    comments:Hi,

    I have backordered XYZ.com via DomWish more than a month ago, and
    was told that I was the first in line at that point by DomWish...

    However, today I saw that the domain is acquired by someone else and I
    have not got any e-mail about it???

    Below is the current whois information! Can you please tell why this
    happened?

    Thanks...

    DOT REGISTRAR REPLY:
    --------------------

    From: [email protected]>
    To: [email protected]
    Subject: [crm.dotregistrar.com] 11. Other

    Dear Sir,

    Thanks for your email.

    Even though you were the first customer on the list, you had purchased
    just 1 DRY instead of the amount required for the DomWish service to get
    the domain name for you. I'm afraid this was the reason why Unasi, Inc
    got the name instead of you.

    I believe this addresses your request. Should you need any further
    assistance, do not hesitate to let me know.

    Best Regards,
    ####################################################################
    FORTH E-MAIL THREAD:

    MY QUESTION (via e-mail):
    -------------------------

    From: [email protected]
    To: [email protected]
    Subject: Re: [crm.dotregistrar.com] 11. Other

    Hi,

    I asked repeatedly what would happen in case I don't have enough drys in my account, and told by at least 2 representatives

    that, I would be contacted in that case and will have 24 hours to buy enough drys. This contradicts with what you are saying,

    and as I mentioned, I was not contacted, nor received any e-mail about this! Can you please clarify and verify why this

    happened?

    Thanks...


    DOT REGISTRAR REPLY:
    --------------------

    From: [email protected]>
    To: [email protected]
    Subject: [crm.dotregistrar.com] 11. Other

    Dear Sir,

    You would have been contacted and given 24 hours if you had been the
    only customer using this service. I'm afraid you weren't, and this is
    the reason why the domain was assigned to another customer using the
    DomWish Service.

    I'm sorry, but you will have to wait until the domain becomes available
    for registration again to be able to gain control over it.

    Best Regards,

    ####################################################################
    FIFTH E-MAIL THREAD:

    MY QUESTION:
    ------------

    Sir,

    As I have mentioned before 2 times, this domain is very important for me, and I would not and did not risk loosing it for a

    reason like this. And, in fact I have been watching it closely for months!

    Again, as I mentioned before, I contacted you 2 times on e-mail (e-mails are below), and although I am not 100% sure, as far

    as I can remember, I called your support/sales to confirm this. Basically, I confirmed the information, that you are saying

    is not true, over and over again!

    And, every time I contacted your company, I was assured clearly that if there is not enough DRYs on my account, I would be

    contacted and would be given 24 hours to purchase enough credits before you attempt to give it to the next person. In fact,

    below (SECOND E-MAIL) is the thread I sent the second time to make sure that, this is the case. As you can see, my question

    was very clear, and asked what would happen if there is another person in the queue, and was told VERY CLEARLY that I would

    be given a chance to purchase these 4 DRYs... And, as I mentioned (and you acknowledged):

    1. I was the first person in line.
    2. I was not notified by e-mail.

    As the e-mails prove, I was clearly mis-treated by your company, and although I was promised that I would have the chance to

    acquire it, I was not given this chance, and the domain was given to someone else! Furthermore, the person who acquired the

    domain is just another domain grabber who has nothing to do with the domain (the domain name is in a foreign language, and was acquired

    by someone in panama!)...

    Once again, there is a clear misconduct by your company, and I expect you to fix this as you can imagine.

    I appreciate your help, support and understanding...
    Thanks...

    ####################################################################
    MESSAGE TO ICANN:
    -----------------
    Dear Sir,

    I have backordered the domain XYZ.com at dotregistrar.com (which was originally registered at their company before the

    expiration). Backordering costs 1 DRY (DRY is their unit of purchase) according to their terms, and if the domain is acquired

    by them and if I am the first one in the queue, I will be charged another 4 DRYs and will be given the domain.

    I asked them very clearly on multiple occasions what would happen in the case I don't have 4 DRYs in my account when (and if)

    they manage to register the domain for me. And, for all the inquiries I sent (to make sure that this is the case), I was told

    by various representatives of dotregistrar that I would be contacted and given 24 hours if I don't have 4DRYs before they

    give it to the next person in line. I have proof (e-mails are below) for these inquiries. Furthermore, as far as I can

    remember, I contacted them one time by phone to confirm this and got the same answer!

    However, when they acquired the domain it was given to someone else although I was the first person in line and I was not

    contacted at all (3rd e-mail thread below confirms this).

    I truly believe that I was mistreated and there was a misconduct on their side... I would not say anything if I did not

    confirm my case over and over, but once again, although I was assured multiple times that I would get the domain, they passed

    the domain to some domain grabber, who has nothing to do with the domain! Although I don't have evidence to support this, I

    believe that the person who owns the domain right now is somehow affiliated with dotregistrar, simply because domain is a

    foreign language word domain (which is not that popular), and the current owner of the domain would not know that there is interest in this domain unless dotregistrar told them so!

    Below is the e-mail threads between me and their support representatives.

    I have tried contacting them to fix this issue, but I am given answers that are conflicting along with excuses as to why they

    behaved that way and it does not look like they will be providing any help...

    Could you please provide assistance and help as to what can be done at this point to fix their misbehaviour and fraudulent

    acts, especially given that DOTREGISTRAR is an ICANN accredited registrar?

    I appreciate your help and support in this matter.

    Thanks,

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Kuwait
    Posts
    10,573
    why didnt you have the dry's ready in the first place to avoid all this mess?
    emails might not reach for ANY reason...
    Bashar Al-Abdulhadi - KuwaitNET Internet Services Serving customers since 1997
    Kuwait's First Webhosting and Domain Registration provider - an ICANN Accredited Registrar

    Twitter: Bashar Al-Abdulhadi

  3. #3
    I think it's simply a matter of taking the time to understand how
    exactly a company works or what makes it tick. Although ICANN
    has set certain rules, registrars have supplemental rules of their
    own.

    Sorry to say but your ICANN complaint is a waste of time.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    208
    Bashar,

    I did not put the money, because I would have to put around $50, and if they could not get the domain, the money would be wasted since I do not want to and don't use dotregistrar for anything else, and although amount does not seem much, it is still waste of money...

    But, that is not the point I am trying to make. If I was told from the beginning that this would be the case, that I would have to take this risk, I would have put it. The problem I am trying to bring here is the fact that I was promised for something by a company by two of their representatives, and they did not keep up their promise, and now they are giving me all kind of BS and excuses for not doing what they told they would do.

    I find this unethical and unacceptable. Hence, the question I am asking here is, can a company do this? Just promise something on e-mail, then not comply with it...Can they go away with it, or is there anything I can do about it?

    Davezan:

    "taking the time to understand how exactly a company works or what makes it tick."

    Don't you think sending two e-mails at 2 different times, calling them and asking them is not taking time to understand how they work? What else could I have done other than what I did?

    Does this mean any company representative can tell you anything without any liability to get your money? Especially an ICANN accredited company and it's representatives are not liable to anyone in anyway? Isn't this fraud?

    Once again, I appreciate your taking time to help.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,974
    I think the only thing Dotregistrar are guilty of here is carelessness in dealing with your enquiries.

    Their rules are clearly explained on their web site where they say:

    Q- What happens if I do not have 4 DRYs available?
    A- The domain will be assigned to the next applicant who has at least
    4 DRYs.


    In their replies to your enquiry they talk about you "winning" the domain. It seems to me that their definition of "winning" is that you are either the only applicant or that you are the first person who has at least 4 DRYs. I don't think there is any doubt about this from what is published on their web site - and ultimately it's what's published on their web site that counts.

    Seeing their web site makes it so totally clear that the domain will go to the next applicant if you don't have four DRYs in your account... why did you even query this? Surely if the domain meant that much to you then it should have been worth giving them an interest-free loan of 50 dollars to help secure it?

    I'm sorry to have to say this, but it seems that they played by their own published rules and I'm afraid you'll just have to accept that you lost the domain. Do, by all means, complain about the careless way in which your enquiries were handled... but I'm afraid that while they may well pay you some compendsation it won't get you your domain.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    208
    Hi Lubeca,

    Actually, my original post was already too long, hence I did not want to include the whole thing. But, in summary I first asked them what will happen to these 4 DRYs if I buy it and they fail to register it for me, and it spawned from there: They said I can do gradual puchasing and I asked does not conflict with what they say on the web page, and so on.

    The sad part is, I sent them the exact quate you included in your message (the section from the FAQ) as I posted in one of my e-mails and asked specifically what they are saying is conflicting with their website, and was assured that they will give me a chance to buy the DRYs. I even asked specifically what will happen if there is another one in the line, and again was assured that I would be contacted. As you know, some companies don't update their websites frequently and some of the policies on the website might have been outdated, and I thought what 2 of their representatives said reflects the current policy (STUPID OF ME, EH!). And, if I was not assured with this much certainty, believe me I would have bought those 4 DRYs.

    Unfortunately, I think you are right, looks like I will have to accept the outcome. But, by posting this message here:

    1. I wanted others to see how reliable their customer support is... Or what customers' chances are when they are promised something on recard and still not given that! And, sadly enough, it looks like as customers we do not have much in our hands...

    2. Whether I stand any chance to do anything about this situation, which was clearly caused by their mistakes...

    Thanks...

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    4,376
    Back-ordering is a private transaction between two parties. It would be like me or Fred next door promising to sell you a domain. It is an add-on service provided by the Registrar and is not under ICANN's jurisdiction.

    Unfortunately, you don't have a chance of getting the domain back. They cannot take it back from the new owner.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Kuwait
    Posts
    10,573
    i had the same situation happened with me once at snapnames.com because they emailed me for payment via CC and haven't enough credit during weekend and POOf the domain went to the second highest bidder below me

    i did not complain because my CC declined back then
    Bashar Al-Abdulhadi - KuwaitNET Internet Services Serving customers since 1997
    Kuwait's First Webhosting and Domain Registration provider - an ICANN Accredited Registrar

    Twitter: Bashar Al-Abdulhadi

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,974
    dcabbar, I have every sympathy.

    The problem is that we are dealing with customer service representatives. And customer service representatives are the same regardless of whether they are working for domain name companies or airlines or electricity companies. They are given some very basic training and are then let loose. And because they know so little but are afraid to admit it they will make things up as they go along. Which is why, when dealing with customer service representatives, you often find that you never get the same answer twice.

    It's not the fault of any one company or any one customer service representative. It's just the way of the world. Which is why it's best never to rely on anything that you get told by a customer service representative but to always pick the safest option. The safest option, in your case, would have been to fork out the extra 50 dollars.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    208
    Bashar, do not get me wrong, but I am trying to set the record straight here:

    Your situation was completely different... If that was the case, I would not complain either...

    But in my case, I DID NOT EVEN GET ANY E-MAIL (which was admitted by them, as depicted in the e-mails above), although I was told that I would get an e-mail, and this is not hearsay, instead it was told on record (again, it is depicted in the e-mails above).

    In your case, you failed to respond to your window of opportunity... In my case, ALTHOUGH I WAS TOLD THAT I WOULD HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY, which is the case with almost all backordering companies, I was not given that... Both your case, and my case can be proven with mailids, etc.

    In any case, as Techno and Lubeca mentioned above, it is very likely that I don't have a chance to get this domain, but once again, it is pretty obvious to me that, it is a problem with the way dotregistrar does business...

    Lubeca said:
    Back-ordering is a private transaction between two parties.
    I wonder though what we should believe while we are dealing with companies and who sets the rule of these transactions, or are there any rules in these transactions, or do we have any rights at all? They have something on their website, and when they fail to fulfill that, they say: hey we forgot to update that part of the website, it is changed or they say "you misunderstood it" and start playing with words! When you try to clarify that and/or listen to their reps say something that they fail to fullfill, then they say: hey, our web site tells you that it is not so, our rep made a mistake... Once again, do we have any rights against these companies? It seems to me that, domain registration took a completely weird turn, and we, mortal people, have no rights over companies like these as customers...

    Thanks...

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    208
    Lubeca,

    Thanks for the sympathy, and I kind of agree with you. Don't you think though the weird part was that for the first time, I got the same answer 3 times, which turned out to be wrong at the end

    I have/had no problem paying the $50, I paid way more than that for domains that are less important for me. But, the problem as you mentioned is to figure out what the safest option is and what the rules of transactions are... For the reason I mentioned above (that they sometimes fail to update their pages according to their policy changes), I relied on reps, but it turned out to be the reflection of my stupidity, although I still think that it is a misconduct on their side...

    Once again, thanks a lot! I appreciate the support, especially when I am soooo pissed off...

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Kuwait
    Posts
    10,573
    whats the name anyway?
    Bashar Al-Abdulhadi - KuwaitNET Internet Services Serving customers since 1997
    Kuwait's First Webhosting and Domain Registration provider - an ICANN Accredited Registrar

    Twitter: Bashar Al-Abdulhadi

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    208
    I am PM'ing you the name

    EDIT: Tried PMing you, and got the error:
    This user's mailbox is currently full, and cannot be sent any messages until it is cleaned out. An email has been sent notifying the user of this. Please try your request at a later time.
    So, I used the EMail Link instead...
    Last edited by dcabbar; 05-22-2005 at 07:14 PM.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    208
    Ok... This situation even got weirder!

    At some point, DotRegistrar rep. told to me that the only way I can acquire the domain is by contacting the new owner of this domain to purchase it from him and provided me an e-mail address (from the whois info)!!! I did not contact that person. And, after 1-2 weeks, this domain is now in REDEMPTIONPERIOD period?

    If this domain was acquired by another person, as DotRegistrar claimed, could it get into this REDEMPTIONPERIOD? Is this possible?

    I really think they wanted to make more money out of it, and when they saw they could not, they simply dropped the domain? Does this seem reasonable to you?

    Thanks...

  15. #15
    Could you tell me what eventually happened in your situation. I have something going on that is similar.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    London, United Kingdom
    Posts
    4,362

    Re: DOTREGISTRAR - Fraud or Misconduct?

    Originally posted by dcabbar
    As I have mentioned before 2 times, this domain is very important for me, and I would not and did not risk loosing it for a

    reason like this. And, in fact I have been watching it closely for months!
    If it was *that* important surely just pre-purchasing the 4 DRY's to ensure it wasn't a problem should have been obvious?
    Rob Golding Astutium Ltd - UK based ICANN Accredited Domain Registrar - proud to accept BitCoins
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