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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
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    Would you refund this payment ?

    Someone ordered an account 4 months ago, didn`t use it and is now asking for a refund because he didn`t use it. Would you refund it ? I mean ok, he didn't use it but couldn`t he have contacted me like a week after ordering it ? I did already pay taxes on this payment and the Paypal fee was taken away etc. The customer ordered another account a couple of weeks ago and registered a domain and was asking for a refund and I gave him a refund eventhough I registered a domain name and is now asking for a refund of 4 months old payments...I really don`t like to refund it but what`s your opinion ?

    And does anyone know if you can file a Paypal complaint for non delivery after 4 months ? Because that is what people do if you deny a refund eventhough you did deliver the service.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
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    What does your TOS say?
    Ankit Gupta - Cernax Hosting
    "We're always second in the industry, the customer comes first."

  3. #3
    From PayPal themselves, when you receive a payment from someone:

    Refund Information: If you need to refund this payment to the sender for any reason, click Refund Payment. The "Refund Payment" option is only available for 60 days after the payment was sent.

    Looks to me like your obligation to refund is a decision of your own. Paypal is out of it now. I guess they can still dispute but if you actually provided the service during the time the customer paid for it and did not use it, then I don't see how you can lose this one.

    What do your terms and conditions and your refund policy say?
    If the web closed at midnight, what would YOU do?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
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    1,461
    The terms say all payments are non refundable and we do not offer a money back guarantee. Legally I definitely do not need to refund it. There are only two things that I am concerned about:

    1. What if the customer crys and yells about it on the internet and damages my reputation

    2. What if they file a Paypal complaint. I just got two open issues on Paypal because some smart guy's bank did a chargeback (although he says he didn't request it and is trying to get the bank to undo the chargeback).

    But on the other hand I really wouldn't feel good about refunding a 4 months old payment. Considering that I did already register a domain name for this guy, paid taxes on his payment and paid the Paypal fee on his payment and can`t get the money back.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
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    3,352
    1. What if the customer crys and yells about it on the internet and damages my reputation

    Phone, cable or any other traditional service companies will not refund even if you do not use the service. i can't tell my cable company that i didn't use the servce thus they must refund me for a month or cell phone company. IMO, it's not your fault that they didn't use the service and your TOS already stated no refund.

    2. What if they file a Paypal complaint. I just got two open issues on Paypal because some smart guy's bank did a chargeback (although he says he didn't request it and is trying to get the bank to undo the chargeback).

    explain to paypal and let's see how they will handle it.

  6. #6
    1. What if the customer crys and yells about it on the internet and damages my reputation.

    You cant do much for this. Then the best option is to refund him.
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  7. #7
    Originally posted by 123x
    1. What if the customer crys and yells about it on the internet and damages my reputation.

    You cant do much for this. Then the best option is to refund him.
    Screw that!

    If the customer cries and yells about it on the internet, you have every right to defend yourself. Let the rest of the world know that he didn't use a service he paid for and then asked for a refund 4 mos later and explain your position. I think the public will be on your side due to his stupidity.

    If you have a TOS then stick to it and get on with your day. Otherwise, what's the point of having a TOS if you're going to just give a refund anyway.

    LH
    If the web closed at midnight, what would YOU do?

  8. #8
    Thomas,

    From what I can see this guy is upset because he wasted his own money. Thats his fault.

    Refunds on domains should never be given as once the domain is registered it can't be cancelled. You should inform him that his domain has already been registered and there is nothing that you can do about this. Tell him to contact ICANN or someone to get confirmation of this.

    With regards to the 4 months thats his problem. Simply tell him politely that as he decided not to use the account for 4 months which was nothing to do with you, refunds are not possible.

    Thank him for his continued interest in your services and don't worry.

    Any more emails? - read them and give them the blackhole treatment.

    He knew the deal when he signed up and payed for the account - he can't then turn around and claim your being unfair. Thats childish and others will agree with that.

    Hope this helps!

    -Turboz

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Woking, England
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    My opinion would be, don't refund him unless in your TOS it says you can...

    If he does go all over the web telling everying you're a bad webhost he'll probably say it in so much 'txt tlk' and jibberish that no one understands him! Most forums delete stupid posts and if when he was asked why don't you like them...he can either lie, or tell them the truth...and get laughed off. If you check where you are getting hits, then have a quick look from any posts against you, then post your side of the argument.

    I have know people on forums to e-mail hosting companies for their view...and usually the company came out tops

  10. #10
    Join Date
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    Singapore
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    You provided the service and maintained his account for 4 months and he paid for 4 months. Now if he did not want to use it he would have not signed up in the first place or would ahve already terminated himself after a very very short period of time. But why now?

    This may turn out as a "I need money" case where he is yelling and screaming because he wants to get some money back and use it.

    Tell him nicely for the first few times that the service was provided and that it is not in the TOS to provide refunds on those grounds that his account was un-used.

    If he is sensible enough he will back off because you hold a stronger stand than him. If he threatens your organisation or anything, it is clear that he is very immature and unreasonable.
    If that is the case give him a stern warning about the matter.
    After that ignore him. He is wasting your valuable time.

    Paypal normally handles cases that at a max of 60 days old and I think its the same for the credit card companies.

    Do keep all these emails between you and him in the case you need proof of the conversion.

    May the Force be with you.
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  11. #11
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    Refund him you should not. I sense the force of greed around him. Ignore him and give him the boot, you should.

  12. #12
    Join Date
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    Castle Pines, CO
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    You will always meet an unhappy customer who wants more than you can give. Some might complain and a lot of them do. The larger you get - the more customers you get - the more chances you have of increasing customer complaints.
    Originally posted by thomas.smith
    The customer ordered another account a couple of weeks ago and registered a domain and was asking for a refund and I gave him a refund eventhough I registered a domain name and is now asking for a refund of 4 months old payments...I really don`t like to refund it but what`s your opinion ?
    Your first mistake was giving him the refund of the domain name. You gave him that money back & now he expects that you will give the money back again. Did you get the money back on the domain name?

    And jt2377 gave a good example. This weekend is going to be pretty busy & I doubt I will have my TV on. I cannot ask for a refund because I did not use it. Or I cannot return spoiled food to the commissary because I did not eat it.

    It is customers like that who really want everything & not pay for it. Once you refund him, he will then ask for a cheaper monthly rate (since he can get hosting cheaper somewhere else). We rely on customers to keep us in business. We have to provide professional services since most customers want professional service yet for some reason most do not want to pay for it

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
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    UK
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    If i bought a pizza, but never bothered eating it i wouldnt take it back to the shop and demand a refund.

  14. #14

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
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    Sweden
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    I have a 14 day refund policy, but 4 months? No. He can whine all the likes about it on forums. If i saw someone whine about not getting a refund after 4 months, i'd just laugh at them and so would probably everyone else on that forum too. I wouldn't think bad about the company involved, and lets face it, its publicity .

  16. #16
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    Originally posted by The_Overl
    I have a 14 day refund policy, but 4 months? No. He can whine all the likes about it on forums. If i saw someone whine about not getting a refund after 4 months, i'd just laugh at them and so would probably everyone else on that forum too. I wouldn't think bad about the company involved, and lets face it, its publicity .
    And if you refund, you may get bad publicity if he goes rattering about how his webhost refunded him even after 4 months....

    Then you will start finding yourself with a whole load of people wanting refunds like,
    "I only use 10% of my bandwidth shouldn't I get 90% of my money back?"
    -=- GQ Hong -=-
    GalacNet WebMaster

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
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    Re: Would you refund this payment ?

    Originally posted by thomas.smith
    Someone ordered an account 4 months ago, didn`t use it and is now asking for a refund because he didn`t use it. Would you refund it ?
    Of course not. It's not your responsibility to ensure your client uses his space. As long as you've provided your client with a working account for the past four months, you've done your part and are entitled to full payment.

    -B

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
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    Chesapeake, VA
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    boonchuan wrote:
    Refund him you should not. I sense the force of greed around him. Ignore him and give him the boot, you should.

    LOL, what he said!

    In all seriousness though... can you go to a car dealer, buy a car and then return it 4 months later "because I didn't drive it very much"? Of course not.

    Can you buy a computer from DELL and then return it 4 months later "because I didn't get a chance to use it." Of course not.

    Can you buy groceries from WALMART and then return them 4 months later "because I never cooked with them and now they are rotted and I have no use for them." Of course not.

    Should you be able to pay for 4 months of Webhosting and then get a full refund "because I didn't use my web space"? Nope.

    If this customer complains - so be it. I don't know of any successful business that doesn't have the occasional complaint and in a lot of cases, it can be completely unwarranted.

    I think that most folks these days can readily discern between a legitimate complaint and someone who is just rambling on in an attempt to slander someone.

    And lastly, if you are looking for a really diplomatic way to say "no" but perhaps smooth things out if this customer is one of those "fly off the handle and be irate"-types... you could suggest that while you can't offer him a refund for service that you already delivered and which you incurred costs and allocated space for... that you will be willing to give him a free month of service for any NEW account that he sets up as a customer courtesy.

    This way you don't have to refund anything out of pocket (since there is ZERO justification for you to have to do that anyways!) and you can also offer some means by which to pacify this customer.
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  19. #19
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    Apr 2003
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    Lisbon - Portugal - Europ
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    I went to the cinema, but fell asleep! I didn't see the movie. Should I ask for a refund?

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  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Sussex, England
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    Don't refund him. As other people have said, if it was another good such as food that he didn't use and asked for a refund, he wouldn't get it.

    It's probably best that you stick by your TOS, if it says no refunds stick to it. If you bend your TOS for this issue, then in future the client may not pay any attention to it (although it's unlikely that many read it properly before signing up).

  21. #21
    Originally posted by Eu1net
    I went to the cinema, but fell asleep! I didn't see the movie. Should I ask for a refund?
    I agree
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  22. #22
    Join Date
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    Originally posted by boonchuan
    Refund him you should not. I sense the force of greed around him. Ignore him and give him the boot, you should.
    Someone saw star wars.

    Back to topic. I would not refund him. If he cries and whines on the internet, let him. That will not damage his reputation. Your TOS states it, paypal states it. He has no grounds. Just because he decided not to use it, doesn't qualify him for a full refund.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    771
    Originally posted by Eu1net
    I went to the cinema, but fell asleep! I didn't see the movie. Should I ask for a refund?

    What movie did you see, I want to avoid that one


    No really, why would you refund them, did your servers fail to provide service for those 4 months? Did he not get support questions answered in a reasonable amount of time or any other service issue? I would explain that you have a X refund period (if at all) and you are sorry he did not use his account but all fees are deemed earned at the time the account is started.

    What I have done in the past depending on the situation is tell them if between now and the end of their normal term if they want to switch the hosting to a different domain they can do that so they can use what is left. Of course they have to pay for the new domain name but you are not out any additional money just the few minutes of switching out the hosting account. You are not required to even do this if your TOS notes a refund time. You can do this a good gesture of service.

    Just handle this like a professional, stand your ground and you will be fine. If this is the type of customer that is going to bad mouth you unless you give in they will continue to push you until everything is free.


    My 2 cents

    Robert
    Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Las Vegas/St. Louis
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    Do not give him his money back. If he goes back and rants that you did - then youll have others try you.

    Stand by your terms. Paypal normally doesnt refund ANYthing past 90 days, especially services, because they are harder to prove false.
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  25. #25

  26. #26
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    Originally posted by etechsupport2
    If you are seeing that particular customer is going to spoil your reputation and matter is going more critical, what one should do?

    Let us ponder and find out the solution.
    It depends on the situation.

    if in this case he goes about ranting that "they won't refund me my money because I did not use something that I subscribed for!" then I think the mass public will know that its his own fault.
    We can see him getting flamed and kicked from many locations if he really goes about doing that.

    However, if its bad service and its true then there would not be much you can do about it. Its alright if 1 person complains... maybe even 10 people... but if every single one that signs up leaves a bad rating and starts posting bad threads then it would really be a problem.
    The common method would be to declare "premature death" and close that company down and start a new one with a new name and image. But taking in mind not to make the same mistake again.
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  27. #27
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    The customer was unable to use the account and wanted me to call him. However, I do not promote phone support, don`t offer it and my FAQ clearly states that. So I told him I could help him via Email but he insisted on receiving support via the phone. However, he didn`t contact me for the first 4 months at all. Then he wanted me to call him and I really can`t call people in the USA because first that costs so much that it would eat up all the profit (I am a budget host) + my spoken English is not well enough and that wouldn`t make a good impression.

  28. #28
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    Originally posted by thomas.smith
    The customer was unable to use the account and wanted me to call him. However, I do not promote phone support, don`t offer it and my FAQ clearly states that. So I told him I could help him via Email but he insisted on receiving support via the phone. However, he didn`t contact me for the first 4 months at all. Then he wanted me to call him and I really can`t call people in the USA because first that costs so much that it would eat up all the profit (I am a budget host) + my spoken English is not well enough and that wouldn`t make a good impression.
    Just make it clear to him that you don't provide call over support but if you like get him to call in, but state that English is not the language that is commonly spoken in your area and ask if he is able to conversate in language X

    But normally... I wouldn't be bothered to call to have a refund on a virtual hosting account.... image the calling charges would be much more than what i can get back...

    if he does a charge back, that will cost him $20 if I am not wrong... So all in all its not economical at all.

    Just send him a email and move on with other business procedures. This person is getting plain annoying and I am sure you are hopping mad at your computer terminal now :p
    -=- GQ Hong -=-
    GalacNet WebMaster

  29. #29
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    Aug 2004
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    Yeah, I already sent him an email stating that I can`t refund a payment that is 5 months old. So far I think he didn`t respond.

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Oklahoma
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    Had the same thing happen

    I had the same thing happen on a paypal recurring charge, but I think it may have been 5 months old. They enver used the account and wrote me and asked for a refund, I said umm "NO" and they filed a complaint with paypal, whom gave them back all thier money and charged me $10 chargeback fee for the reversal. I sent them a copy of the sign up form, logs, monthly staements etc... Oh well... Good luck to you
    Regards,
    Randy
    Okie Net Web Hosting

  31. #31
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    Aug 2004
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    Re: Had the same thing happen

    Originally posted by rhenderson
    I had the same thing happen on a paypal recurring charge, but I think it may have been 5 months old. They enver used the account and wrote me and asked for a refund, I said umm "NO" and they filed a complaint with paypal, whom gave them back all thier money and charged me $10 chargeback fee for the reversal. I sent them a copy of the sign up form, logs, monthly staements etc... Oh well... Good luck to you
    That type of things make me pull my hair out. Usually I just refund payments because I am looking much better with my hair on my head... But in this case I really feel like giving a refund wouldn`t be good.

  32. #32
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    Re: Had the same thing happen

    Originally posted by rhenderson
    I had the same thing happen on a paypal recurring charge, but I think it may have been 5 months old. They enver used the account and wrote me and asked for a refund, I said umm "NO" and they filed a complaint with paypal, whom gave them back all thier money and charged me $10 chargeback fee for the reversal. I sent them a copy of the sign up form, logs, monthly staements etc... Oh well... Good luck to you
    They gave them back full 5 months worth of cash?? I have known that PayPal sides the customer more than the seller but then the client should monitor his own subscription account.

    I had a similiar case when one person first complaint that he forgot to cancel the subscription then after that because I refuse to refund payment because in our TOS we only refund in the case of in-propoer streaming on our part, he started to say that I altered the payment contract into a subscription that he did not wanted... ...
    ( which makes me able to make a direct one-time payment magically change into a recurring subscription payment after he has paid... ... Make me feel so powerful )

    And all this for $5... ... I personally can't believe it... ... but its true... ... i asked and suggested him to complain to PayPal about this and apply for a charge-back. It either never got through or PayPal dismissed this arguements.

    Some people just have too much time on their hands.
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    GalacNet WebMaster

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