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  1. #1

    WebReseller Warning

    Years ago, before I began web hosting, I found a wealth of information on available data centers and their practices on WHT. This info was invaluable to me and helped my new company start out on solid ground. In the interest of returning something to WHT I am placing this statement on the practices of my last data center, WebReseller. Anyone who cares to search for comments on this company in WHT will doubtless find several others that have experienced the same, or similar, problems with WR.

    Before I explain the problems that led to our leaving WebReseller's service, and the problems after leaving their service, let me first say that for the majority of the time we were with WR we found their service acceptable. The bandwidth was speedy and we rarely had to contact WR support on the server. Not that we didn't have issues with the server, we often just fixed the problems ourselves.

    Towards the tail end of 2004 though, we had a serious issue with the server that we could not repair ourselves. We contacted WR support and the next day was told the problem was fixed. For the next three months we were subjected to unexplained weekly down-times of 2-3 hours or more, and about that time WR phone support dried up completely. I called WR support on 23 separate occasions (always during business hours) and received voicemail every time. I left 23 messages... and never received any response. Switching to email support was a little better, we would submit a ticket when the server went off-line and, if it happened to be outside of general business hours, we would receive a response in badly worded English that the issue had been "forwarded to a senior tech". To their credit, they would forward the message and a tech would contact us in a few hours. Not stellar service... but it was bearable.

    While trying to track the server problem down ourselves, we found that areas of our "Dedicated Server" that we should have been able to access were unavailable to us. This was when we found that our "Dedicated Server" was in fact a VPS. Granted, it was a VPS with the use of the full system... but we signed up for (and were paying for) a "Dedicated Server" not a big VPS.

    As the down-times increased (2-3 a week now) we began looking for a new data center. All attempts to get WR to fix the problem (permanently) failed with no explanation from support. They seemed to be quite happy to continue allowing our server to shut down randomly and made no attempt to improve the situation.

    We set up in another data center (exact same CP software, OS, etc...) and cancelled our service w/WR on Nov. 2nd of 2004. As required in the WR TOS, we faxed the cancellation letter stating that we expected the service to end on Nov. 30th. Received a call from Rob the next day, suddenly interested in our problem and stating that he was sorry but he would have to charge us for Nov. due to the TOS. We had already moved data centers at that point though so we thanked him for the service over the years and said "goodbye".

    I may not post here much, but I do regularly peruse the forum. I have read posts by others that had tried to leave WR (or receive a promised credit) with limited success, so I paid attention to the cancellation process and checked that the WR server was indeed unavailable as of Dec. 1st... it was. I did slip-up once though, I didn't check that WR had cancelled billing for the month of Dec. until I got the CC bill for Jan. 2005. Not only had WR billed us for Dec., but they had billed for Jan. 2005 as well. I contacted Rob at WR about the erroneous billing and he sent an email stating "I have put through a refund on this..." (direct quote). Waited a month... no refund. Wrote WR billing again and received this: "The charge for December is valid becuase we require the full 30 days notice, however, the January charge was credited back to your card". While I felt it was less than professional to stick a past client with a month of fees over a single day (submitted on the 2nd instead of the 1st) I would happily have paid the fee... if the service they were charging us for was available during that period, which it was not. I responded to WR with that information and never received any more communication from WR... or any refunds.

    Left with no other recourse, we submitted a chargeback for the $539.90 (2 months) which was settled last week. Today we received an email stating that WR had reported our actions to ChargeBackBureau.org as an invalid chargeback. As ChargeBackBureau.org is a Panama based service with an alleged reputation for unprofessional practices, we are not overly concerned with this action. We have all correspondence and server stats recorded and are sure that our case is ironclad.

    This is not a rant, and I have no interest in starting any online arguments with WR or anyone else. This is simply a statement of my company's experience with WebReseller. I might not even have posted about this whole situation if WR had not felt the need to enact some form of revenge for my company's forcing them to give back money to which they were not entitled.

    Our new server, with all the same software installed, has been up for 8 months with 0% down-time.

    If you are searching for a quality host or data-center, you're in the right place. The members of this forum are for the most part helpful and the information contained here can point you in the right direction. Best of luck in your search!

  2. #2

    Talking Re: WebReseller Warning

    Originally posted by RadioFlyer
    This is not a rant, and I have no interest in starting any online arguments !




    have fun with the no arguments

  3. #3

    Re: Re: WebReseller Warning

    Originally posted by webster13045
    have fun with the no arguments
    I'm sure I will!

  4. #4
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    Thanks for the very thorough writing. Unfortunately, my experience was a mirror of your own with this company.

  5. #5
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    Re: WebReseller Warning

    Originally posted by RadioFlyer
    Today we received an email stating that WR had reported our actions to ChargeBackBureau.org as an invalid chargeback. As ChargeBackBureau.org is a Panama based service with an alleged reputation for unprofessional practices, we are not overly concerned with this action.
    upon visiting http://chargebackbureau.org/ firefox notifies me that their security certificate expired in 2003!! I dont think professional is in the picture.
    I could tell you a joke about UDP. But I'm not sure you would get it!

  6. #6
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    Robert Greenwalt -- Webreseller must spend most of their time trying to do whatever unlawful and unethical things they can possibly do in order to steal money from their customers or x-customers. And if they're unable to steal the money themselves they must spend the time doing whatever other unlawful and unethical things they possibly can in order to deceive someone else into believing it's a valid debt so they can attempt to steal it that way or just simply do what they can for revenge such as them saying they sent your account to ChargeBack Bureau.org which I wouldn't really be concerned about, but just the fact that they do them things is ridiculous.

    Just incase, you may want to be prepared to receive a letter from a collection agency for all the money you charged back, believe it or not, their ethics are as downright rotten as you could ever imagine and I have no doubt that they'll go as far as that. They may or may not, but just be prepared incase they do. I received a letter from a collection agency after I cancelled my account and am currently having to deal with it. I will certainly post all about it here soon enough, but unfortunately I am unable to post anything more about it than I already have at this time.

    Now that you've posted your experience with Webreseller they'll probably come here and post all kinds of nonsense without identifying themselves and attempt their usual deception which anyone with an ounce of common sense can easily see right through.

  7. #7
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    Yikes!


    - HostNexus Mike
    ||| Mike Bowers - Marketing Director
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  8. #8
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    Some months ago we were about to sign up with WebReseller.Net as we decided to do a search at WHT for some reviews about them (without being a member of WHT at this time). Reading about the many problems with billing/account cancellation here at WHT and on various websites found via Google we decided to stay away from WebReseller.Net.

    I guess WHT has saved us from a lot of trouble. Thank you!

  9. #9
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  10. #10
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    Very professional and well written critique of their service.

    I've only ever had to do one chargeback. It is my experience that given your ability to communicate and document effectively you will have no problem winning the contest with the credit card company. You can be gratified in knowing that if they lose the chargeback it will hurt their rep with the credit card company and make it harder for them to use those services.
    Rich
    WebsiteMaven - Web Hosting Reviews, Guides, and Advice to Build and Promote your Web Site

  11. #11
    I have to say these responses are not exactly what I expected. I knew some would commiserate with my company's problems with WR but I expected some dissenters by now. Apparently the anti-WR movement has been expanding (fancy that). It truly is a shame that Rob and crew are dropping the ball in so many ways... take away the problems with billing and support, and they've a quality service to offer. As it is, it's just not worth the risk.

    The same with chargebackbureau.org, a useful service operated in an immoral way... making it less than useless.

    Myself... I'm curious how much longer WR's merchant account supplier will tolerate the repeated chargebacks.

    Anyway, thank you all for your kind words (and actions). I will continue to monitor this thread.

  12. #12
    Join Date
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    ||| Mike Bowers - Marketing Director
    ||| atOmicVPS LTD
    ||| OnApp Powered Linux & Windows Cloud Hosting ► [Shared] ► [Reseller] ► [VPS]
    ||| Follow the atOmicVPS Blog

  13. #13
    Originally posted by DevilDog
    Very professional and well written critique of their service.

    I've only ever had to do one chargeback. It is my experience that given your ability to communicate and document effectively you will have no problem winning the contest with the credit card company. You can be gratified in knowing that if they lose the chargeback it will hurt their rep with the credit card company and make it harder for them to use those services.

    This statement alone is an indication that we do not get many; there were a tremendous number of billing problems that took place. We admit this and are regretful of it, however, it happened and there is nothing that can ever be done to remove the problems that took place. The fact that we still have the same merchant provider and our percentage is very low is a further indication.

    The thing that can be guaranteed is that it has been resolved, new software, new process, and new policies guarantee that should anyone cancel they are removed from the systems and if any refund is due it's completed the evening.

    A few misnomers that need to be cleared up... First and foremost Robert DOES NOT control all the billing and for that matter barely any of it… He has been far removed from it for a while now. Some cases he will be involved in though.

    In the case of deadserious we have stated our case and that is that and it will not be changed. In regards to this post the customer SHOULD NOT have been for the one month, however, at the time there was the older system in place and he was billed and the refunded as NOT processed. An API feeds into CB which as of this post has been removed because we do not use them as some of their practices are unethical and it’s not a pride and true method. When a mistake is made we WILL NOT defend it and if it has been made public then we will say we were wrong and not try to sugar coat it or attempt to protect our rear…

    Every case is very different, our new policies are straight forward, you cancel your account and in 48 hours it's closed and that is that. The 30 day policy was removed a month or so back to squelch any problems that could arise.

    There are two sides to every story, you can search this forum for many companies and here the same billing problems over and over. Sadly ours were for an extended few months which makes it look even worse.

    We have taken every precaution plus to ensure there is never a problem again.

    As far as downtime, sure, we have had it and dealt with it. We have a new NOC opening that will have state of the art facilities and services. Again, no company is perfect and the most important thing is to admit when mistakes have been made and we can admit that mistakes were made. If mistakes are made and no corrective action is ever take then there is a problem… a serious problem

    Web hosting talk is by far and away the primary resource for hosting companies to research companies. If you look at the complaints about billing and take the percentage of that number by out customer count you would see that this truly does not happen a lot. Once is more then enough, but again, we had it happen too many times and not to repeat myself again… It has been 100% resolved.

    A parting thought… if every customer used WHT to complain and/or attempt to get a refund on valid charges then we would have some major problems. How many times have you felt that you have been wronged but you know deep down inside that you caused the problem and tried to create public awareness just to get money back? If companies caved every time a complaint was lodged then there would be a lot of companies out of business. A perfect example of this is deadserious, albeit there may have been miscommunication, however, attempts to resolve the matter amicably have gone unanswered by deadseious and instead he wants to continue this pursuit.

    We wish everyone the very best and hope this has cleared up a few things…
    Complete Reseller Solutions
    webreseller.net

  14. #14
    thanks for the heads up
    Swish Connect
    www.swishconnect.com.au

    Web Hosting | Domain Names | Web Development | e-Commerce

  15. #15
    I did indeed receive an email from chargebackbureau.org stating that my "report" has been removed by WR.

    While the above post from WR appears to address the issues and promise a solution... more than a few of us have heard this song before. As with most things, time will tell.

    Originally posted by webseller
    Robert DOES NOT control all the billing and for that matter barely any of it… He has been far removed from it for a while now.
    You might want to change the account info for [email protected] then...
    From: "Robert" <[email protected]>

    Originally posted by webseller
    In the case of deadserious...
    I thought this was "The Case of RadioFlyer"?

    Originally posted by webseller
    In regards to this post the customer SHOULD NOT have been for the one month, however, at the time there was the older system in place and he was billed and the refunded as NOT processed.
    My company was billed for two months after the account was cancelled. We have received a judgement in our favor from the CC charge back dept. for BOTH months. WR has never credited anything to our account and apparently still believes that we should have paid for Dec even though the server was unavailable, our support ticket system passwords were invalid and we were personally assured by Rob that the account would be removed as of Dec 1st.

    Originally posted by webseller
    An API feeds into CB...
    Are you saying that every chargeback was automatically reported to CB?

    Originally posted by webseller
    As far as downtime, sure, we have had it and dealt with it.
    I never referred to NOC downtime, we left WR due to an issue with our server (failing hard drive?) that was not being addressed by WR support for a period of several months. This was not the only problem we had with support/billing at WR... just the last straw.

    Originally posted by webseller
    A parting thought… if every customer used WHT to complain and/or attempt to get a refund on valid charges then we would have some major problems.
    I'm afraid I don't agree. We're all a pretty savvy bunch out here after all. The 'cranks' that post complaints they can't back up are usually picked apart by the regular members of WHT before they can cause any real damage.

    Originally posted by webseller
    How many times have you felt that you have been wronged but you know deep down inside that you caused the problem and tried to create public awareness just to get money back?
    Ummmm... never.

    Originally posted by webseller
    If companies caved every time a complaint was lodged then there would be a lot of companies out of business.
    I think that goes without saying. All we were looking for was someone to address a valid complaint in a resonable amount of time.

    One last point:
    We know WR is a large company with a high customer count... and in reference to this, their complaint count is not too excessive. But this would also mean that in reference to their gross merchant account sales, they can survive quite a few chargebacks and still remain under the limit... yes? You can't have it both ways I'm afraid.

    I sincerely hope that WR means it this time. I (for one) will be watching.

  16. #16
    It was an automated script that we use with their API (it has been removed)... Your charges, which should have been refunded, were done about 3-4 months ago; at that time there were problems.

    Robert does handle some of the problems as mentioned in a previous post thus the email… Without violating our privacy agreement there were 2 refunds in the system that were NOT processed for you that should have been. For that matter, when we switched everything around there were about 4 in total that were never processed and should have been.

    We have these systems under control and the bottom line this will not happen again. We CAN NOT, NOR WILL WE ever be able to change what has happened, but on my watch or our new billing AR manager it will not happen again.

    I want to clarify that NO excuses are being made for anything that took place in this case or over the last several months. There is no excuse for mistakes at this level, or for that matter, if it were $1.00.

    They simply should not happen, however, we wanted to take the time and at least explain what the problems were and that they are resolved.

    If there were problems in the past let our billing departments know immediately and it will be rectified if it can be confirmed.

    Webreseller takes a great deal of pride in what it does. We started off as a small company and can relate to the financial stress that can be equated with having a business. We work wth customers everyday and find ways to help them grow, get more customers, and quite honestly... we try to cutomize plans around the customers financial means. On many occasions when a customer has had a rough month we have geiven courtesy credits just to help. Two VERY recent incidents required us to to give a customer close to $900.00 in credits becuase he had a fraudulent order and was overdrafted. It happens and we were there to help...

    Again, I truly hope this does clear items up...
    Complete Reseller Solutions
    webreseller.net

  17. #17
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    441
    Originally posted by webseller
    In the case of deadserious we have stated our case and that is that and it will not be changed.
    That's CRAP! You have not stated your case nowhere at all whatsoever and barely responded to anything at all regarding all the obvious as can be deceit that you've been and are still trying to commit. You think that saying there's two sides to every story and that you've stated your case is all it takes (without providing your side of the story)? Think again! Just as I said before you posted here, you'll come on here and post all kinds of nonsense without identifying yourself, which anyone with an ounce of common sense can see right through. You've been doing this crap for years here on WHT and anyone can go look back through all the billing complaint posts and see for themselves that you do the same thing every time. Attempt to make it out like most all the complaints were due to mistakes (which obviously isn't true) on your part, and then go and do something for one of the members who have an issue with your business practices just to attempt to make it look like there's just a couple that are out to get money or have a grudge against you and crap like that (just to attempt to gain or retain some credibility) which obviously isn't true at all. And anyone can see what the truth is just by reading over all of the past and present complaints about your unethical business practices. And like I've said so many times already, these deceptive things will no longer work for you!

    You know when you attempt to deceive your customers into believing they are on a contract when they were never presented the agreement in any which way whatsoever and not even informed of any such thing until after they cancelled their account is not a mistake. It's deceit and anyone with an ounce of common sense can clearly see that. You didn't even mention the word agreement to me until nearly a month after I cancelled my account, and you can see from all the screen shots of the support responses I received from you that it's obviously all made up as you go. And I know that I'm not the only one that you've attempted this crap with. There's other complaints about you doing the exact same thing right here on WHT, and I'm aware of others as well where you threaten law suits, collection agencies, and ridiculous things like that when customers refuse to let you steal money from them.

    Originally posted by webseller
    There are two sides to every story, you can search this forum for many companies and here the same billing problems over and over. Sadly ours were for an extended few months which makes it look even worse.
    Wouldn't an extended period of at least three or more years be a whole lot more accurate? I don't think that what you claim are mistakes over a period of at least three years are simply "mistakes." Again, like I already said, anyone can go look and see that is the absolute truth, and anyone with an ounce of common sense can see right through your ridiculous attempts at defending the absolutely indefensible.

    Originally posted by webseller
    If you look at the complaints about billing and take the percentage of that number by out customer count you would see that this truly does not happen a lot.
    I think if you would take the time to read through all the complaints, you would see that your attempts at making this out not to happen a lot is ridiculous. There's a whole lot of x-customers of yours that have said that you've done the same types of things to them as well, and there still adding up to this day. And I have no doubt that will continue. I would think that it's more like not all the people that you've probably attempted to cause problems and/or deceive into believing false information or steal money from have complained here, but I think if you cared to take the time to read you just might notice that them complaints are adding up all the time.

    Originally posted by webseller
    Once is more then enough, but again, we had it happen too many times and not to repeat myself again… It has been 100% resolved.
    You've said this or something very similar so many times over the past three or more years so why should anyone suddenly believe it this time? I've also asked you this, and asked you why anyone should suddenly believe it this time in other posts. You continue the same pattern over and over, and all anyone has to do is read through all the complaints about your unethical business/billing practices, and it will be as clear as day that it's just the same old ridiculous thing.

    Originally posted by webseller
    How many times have you felt that you have been wronged but you know deep down inside that you caused the problem and tried to create public awareness just to get money back?
    Absolutely None! And I would never ever, ever do such a thing! It's funny that you would say such a ridiculous thing. Where do you come up with such a crap question like that. Do you just assume that most people do them kinds of things?

    Originally posted by webseller
    If companies caved every time a complaint was lodged then there would be a lot of companies out of business. A perfect example of this is deadserious, albeit there may have been miscommunication, however, attempts to resolve the matter amicably have gone unanswered by deadseious and instead he wants to continue this pursuit.
    What are you talking about? You must be talking about yourself when you say "however, attempts to resolve the matter amicably have gone unanswered." I answer every single time and you absolutely know it. And if anyone wants to go and read through all the threads and view all the screen shots of your absolutely ridiculous comments they will clearly see that's the absolute truth. And that you're the one who does not respond and do all you can to deceive others into believing things that are absolutely not true.

    And I have no doubt that if all the members who read these posts here thought I was posting just to attempt to get money out of you (which I've never even hinted at trying to do), and have no desire to do such thing, or just simply because I have a grudge against your company and such like you're attempting to make it out, they would surely be coming to your defense, and attacking me. But, you know ........ the proof is in the pudding.
    Last edited by deadserious; 05-24-2005 at 01:09 AM.

  18. #18
    Deadserious, you have a very personal issue with us and we are not going to get into it. You have sought out domains to go after us and continue to bash us everyway you can.

    The bottom line is you knew what your obligation was and you did not follow through. Many calls were attempted to amicably resolve and diffuse the situation and you did not return any of them.

    Sorry about your feelings towards us, however, there is nothing we can do about it until you accept your responsibility or at the very least contact someone take get the matter resolved instead of hiding behind WHT. At this point we wish you and your company the very best and the highest level of success.

    Many of your comments and claims are outright false and do not even match up.

    In regards to your last comment, IF you can substantially prove the last charge we would be more then happy to do a refund for you, however, AGAIN, you HAVE NOT replied or returned any call or emails since your posts. Regardless of what you have claimed in the posts if there is a justified case then without question you WILL be refunded within 24 hours, but you need to take a first step instead of what you are doing...
    Complete Reseller Solutions
    webreseller.net

  19. #19
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    Originally posted by webseller
    Deadserious, you have a very personal issue with us and we are not going to get into it. You have sought out domains to go after us and continue to bash us everyway you can.
    I have a problem with you doing what you've done and are continuing to do which is intentionally attempt to deceive me and others into believing things that are absolutely not true, and stealing and/or attempting to steal money from your customers or x-customers. Then attempting to turn it around like you've done nothing wrong and that the ones who are telling the absolute truth are to blame (Something you've been doing for a long, long time) and all anyone needs to do is read through all the complaints about your unethical business practices to see for themselves. You continue to prove over and over again how ethically rotten and cruel you really are. I think you're the one who has a personal issue with me for exposing the absolute truth about what you're really doing. And of course you cannot respond with any facts whatsoever to back up your nonsense, and have to just say the same old ridiculous made up lies like I "just have a personal issue with you" and then say "you're not going to get into it". Of course you're not going to get into it because you know that you cannot defend yourself with anything but lies that just lead to more and more proof of you're lying through your teeth. And I have not sought out domains to go after you. I could go pay 7 or 8 dollars at anytime for a domain if I wanted. I'm sure there's plenty of available names that would work for what you're claiming as "to go after you." But if you think I'm actually going to waste money on something like that, then you're in for a big surprise. And I don't go around bashing you. I only tell the absolute truth, and that is all. You just attempt to deceive others into believing things that are not at all true over and over again.

    Originally posted by webseller
    The bottom line is you knew what your obligation was and you did not follow through. Many calls were attempted to amicably resolve and diffuse the situation and you did not return any of them.
    The bottom line is you're lying through your teeth and you absolutely know it. It's truly ridiculous how you can be this ethically rotten. I've given you every opportunity to actually prove that I'm lying like you're attempting to suggest. But you fail to do so every single time and it's proven over and over again that you're just making up a bunch of crap. Why don't you take a look at all them support tickets and see who didn't "follow through" with any facts to back up your crap about "contractual obligations" and all the other lies you told. That would be you of course and you absolutely know it. I also called you multiple times when you left a response in a support ticket after ignoring me for 15 or so days, and even attempted to call you back multiple times "THE ONE TIME" that you actually called and left a message, and of course received nothing but an answering machine every single time. It's simply unbelievable how many absolutely ridiculous lies you continue to come up with.

    Originally posted by webseller
    Sorry about your feelings towards us, however, there is nothing we can do about it until you accept your responsibility or at the very least contact someone take get the matter resolved instead of hiding behind WHT. At this point we wish you and your company the very best and the highest level of success.
    I have taken my responsibility, and that is to tell the absolute truth. Now if you could only do the same. I guess going through 2 months of support tickets with you not providing any straight forward answers, and making multiple phone calls to you only to receive your answering machine each and every time, and posting on WHT for months about what you've done and are continuing to do, and giving you every opportunity imaginable to provide facts (which of course you do not have) to back up your claims, and having you fail to do so every single time was not at all an attempt to contact you and resolve this was it? Yea hiding behind WHT huh? Good try.

    Originally posted by webseller
    Many of your comments and claims are outright false and do not even match up.
    That's crap and you know it. If they were you wouldn't be so vague like you are with everything, and would provide some specifics with some proof to back it up which you've been given every opportunity imaginable, and failed to do so each and every time.

    Originally posted by webseller
    In regards to your last comment, IF you can substantially prove the last charge we would be more then happy to do a refund for you, however, AGAIN, you HAVE NOT replied or returned any call or emails since your posts.
    And more crap! You're now claiming that you've been sending emails and calling all this time? Even after you said you will no longer deal directly with me and that my account has been sent to NCO collections (NCO Financial Systems) And what does since my posts mean? Just as usual you have to be vague and not provide any straightforward comments or answers. You never sent me a single email, other than the ones that were logged in your support desk which I have screen shots of every one. And if you go and read through them, you'll see where you lied about sending me email in there as well. You're truely a terrible liar if you ask me.


    Originally posted by webseller
    Regardless of what you have claimed in the posts if there is a justified case then without question you WILL be refunded within 24 hours, but you need to take a first step instead of what you are doing...
    Which last comment of mine are you talking about? You always have to be so vague and just make up something that you think can go whatever way and never provide anything straightforward or respond to or answer the actual questions or comments it seems. The last comment that I made here in this thread that had anything to do with charges would be "I received a letter from a collection agency after I cancelled my account." Is this the comment you're referring to? And if so, how in the heck are you going to refund that? I have not and will not pay it. There's absolutely know way your collection agency will get that money out of me. If they actually bought that debt from you, then I guess you just stole from them instead since you were unable to steal the money from me? I would guess that it's more along the lines of no win for them no fee for you though right?


    I would have thought by now over a period of about 4 months you would have came up with a lie to attempt to prove how in the world I could have actually been on some type of yearly or three year contract like you attempted to deceive me into believing, and I even offered to pay all the remaining months that you lied about me owing if you could simply prove with absolute facts how I could have possibly agreed to such a ridiculous contract when I ordered services through your online order form just like most everyone else, and read every single little detail about everything, and know the word contract never even existed on your entire web site for the entire period of time I was with you. I'm just the only one out of every one who ordered services at the time who happened to be on a ridiculous contract huh? Oh yea, but wait just go read through some threads here and there's others who you've attempted the exact same things on, and I have no doubt there's many, many more who simply don't know about wht or just haven't provided their story or full story here. Yea right, you're lying through your teeth and you absolutely know it. But I have no doubt that after 4 straight months of giving you every opportunity to prove it and you failing to do so every time, that you'll still attempt to come up with something. And it will most likely be vague as can be because you know I'll be able to prove you're absolutely lying through your teeth just like I've been doing over and over again otherwise.

  20. #20
    Deadserious, if we wish to resolve this then your options have been given. We are still more then pleased to work with you. You are entitled to your own views on the situation, however you need to acquiesce and allow it to work out if that is the case.

    We will have NO further comment in regards to deadserious, if there are still questions in regards to the problems that took place we will address every one.
    Complete Reseller Solutions
    webreseller.net

  21. #21
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    Originally posted by webseller
    Deadserious, if we wish to resolve this then your options have been given. We are still more then pleased to work with you. You are entitled to your own views on the situation, however you need to acquiesce and allow it to work out if that is the case.

    We will have NO further comment in regards to deadserious, if there are still questions in regards to the problems that took place we will address every one.
    Ha Ha, I need to acquiesce? Yea, right, and I'm not doing anything other than providing the absolute truth and proving how I've been treated by you, and exposing what you've really done and are are attempting to do to me and others. And just as usual you cannot respond or answer to anything specific or provide any factual information to back up your claims and instead have to just say the same old ridiculous things such as "you will have no further comment" (How many times have you said that now?), and be as vague as you can just like you have so many other times when you know that you simply cannot defend your absolutely indefensible lies and attempted deceit.

    And my options have been given huh? Let's see you've told me that you will no longer deal directly with me and that you will have no further comment (for the nth time) and sent a fraudulent debt to a collection agency and failed to provide any straightforward answers with any factual information about your claims over a period of about 4 months now, and then attempt to make it look like I have all these wonderful easy options to just get you to do the right thing, after you've gone so far beyond the wrong thing that there's nothing you could even do to make it right. Some great options huh?

  22. #22
    Deadseious, I do not have time to contune this with you and we are not going to discuss this at WHT, your options have been given, calls have been made with no response, and mails have been sent with no response.

    It is apparently obvious that you do not want the truth to come out (if you call and discuss it with a rep there is a privacy policy and nothing will be disclosed as to the results either way by us, what you do is on you)

    With respect to this case... NO we will not discuss the details over WHT so when we say we have no comment that is why.

    The definition of truth:

    1. Conformity to fact or actuality.
    2. A statement proven to be or accepted as true.
    3. Sincerity; integrity.
    4. Fidelity to an original or standard.
    5.
    1. Reality; actuality.
    2. often Truth That which is considered to be the supreme reality and to have the ultimate meaning and value of existence.

    You need to review 1 much more closely.

    You have not been treated anyway by me, if anything I believe I am trying to show you as much respect as possible given the circumstances and lack of all the facts.

    If you read through this post, we said we WILL NOT defend the error s that took place in regards to billing because there is NO excuse. In your case you have only followed one of our procedures that we have and that is it. You neglected to take the time and work it out and instead added and subtracted what you felt would support your case.

    So again, your options have been given and we are very willing to work with you, however, everything on our end shows that your server agreement had time remaining that.... well leave at this, which is under controversy from you.

    If you wish to discuss please feel free to contact us and we will be more then happy to help you.

    Have a great day and we wish you all the very best...
    Complete Reseller Solutions
    webreseller.net

  23. #23
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    Originally posted by webseller
    Deadseious, I do not have time to contune this with you and we are not going to discuss this at WHT, your options have been given, calls have been made with no response, and mails have been sent with no response.
    That's just more of your crap. You Just "SUDDENLY" claim that you've been sending mails and calling and have been wanting to work this all out the whole time, but yet when you look at your lack of responding to any of the things you've been specifically confronted with or lack of answering with any specifics whatsoever to back up your fraudulent claims in all the support tickets, and all the threads here on wht, anyone can conclude that you're the one who has failed to either respond at all, or simply did not provide any proof at all of your absolutely fraudulent claims.

    I guess that's why you're "suddenly" claiming that you've sent all these mails that were never received by me and made all the phone calls that I never received after you've said that you will not deal directly with me and will not comment further, and sent the fraudulent debt to collections huh? Because you know since there's no such thing, then you can just come up with whatever other lies you feel the need at any time right?

    Originally posted by webseller

    It is apparently obvious that you do not want the truth to come out (if you call and discuss it with a rep there is a privacy policy and nothing will be disclosed as to the results either way by us, what you do is on you)
    That's just another one of your crap ways of you avoiding what you've been confronted with. And you know it's not because of your privacy policy and crap like that, but rather because you have told so many lies that you simply cannot even come close to covering them up any longer and you know it. Each lie just leads to more and more lies from you and proves over and over again how bad your ethics really are and you know it. That's why you're unable to even respond to any comments or answer any specific questions with anything other than lies and crap comments like "you will not comment further" and vague comments that are just a bunch of run around try to have it any way you can crap comments. And of course I want the truth to come out, and that's exactly why I have been providing the absolute truth for months and months. And it sure hurts don't it?

    Originally posted by webseller
    With respect to this case... NO we will not discuss the details over WHT so when we say we have no comment that is why.
    Yes because you cannot defend what are absolute lies and you know it otherwise you'd simply be able to easily prove all your ridiculous claims.

    Originally posted by webseller
    The definition of truth:

    1. Conformity to fact or actuality.
    You need to review 1 much more closely.
    I know what truth means, and I have been doing nothing but providing the absolute truth from the beginning and will continue to do that and only that when I'm referring to what you have done and/or attempted to do to me. I'm not just some dumb kid like you had probably wished when you first attempted to deceive me into believing that I was on a contract, which you know just as well as I and all the others you've attempted the same crap on never existed in any which way whatsoever.

    Originally posted by webseller
    You have not been treated anyway by me, if anything I believe I am trying to show you as much respect as possible given the circumstances and lack of all the facts.
    That's not even a good try. And you "trying to show as much respect as possible"? Give me a break. How respectful is lying through your teeth and attempting to deceive people into believing false information and then attempting to make it out like they are the ones who are doing what only you are guilty of? That's exactly what you're doing and it's as downright rotten as can be. I don't even know who "you" are because you won't identify yourself whenever you post (although I sure have a good idea who you are, and am sure others do as well), which seems to just be more of your deceptive practices and something you do in order to cover up whatever you have to at your convenience. When I say you, I'm referring to Robert Greenwalt and Webreseller.net which as far as I know Robert Greenwalt is Webreseller.net. Of course you have employees and such, but if they actually see what comes through your billing system and are helping Robert out with all these lies and deception, then they should really be ashamed of themselves!

    And you know that I am providing facts otherwise you would have proved to me and everyone else 4 months ago that I was not and would easily be able to defend yourself. But because I am providing facts and exposing all your lies every single time you can only give vague responses and run around and ridiculous comments such as "you won't comment further" just like you have from the very beginning, and not provide any evidence at all of what you claim.

    Originally posted by webseller
    If you read through this post, we said we WILL NOT defend the error s that took place in regards to billing because there is NO excuse. In your case you have only followed one of our procedures that we have and that is it. You neglected to take the time and work it out and instead added and subtracted what you felt would support your case.
    I read all your lies and I always address all of them when they are directed at or towards me. As you can see by all my responses to you I can respond to every single thing you say and don't have to go make up lies and vague answers that attempt to just make people assume something that's not true. I don't need to do that crap because what I say about what you've done and are doing to me is the absolute truth. And added and subtracted huh? Funny that you say things like this yet you fail to provide any specific examples each and every time. As I've said in other threads if you can give me any examples of somewhere where I said something that is not true or added or subtracted any thing like you're claiming I'll happy admit it and fix it. But you can't, plain and simple!

    And I neglected to take the time to work it out huh? Ha ha, that's not a very good try either. I guess wasting two months of my time with responding back and forth in support tickets in an attempt to get you to explain and show me proof of the so called agreement which you didn't even mention until a month after I cancelled, only to have you respond with run around answers and lies and never getting you to give a single straight forward answer that proved what you've been attempting to deceive me into believing, and multiple attempts to call you only to receive your answering machine each and every time, and posting the truth here on WHT when it was obvious that you were not going to provide any straight forward and honest answers, to now having you continue NOT providing any straight forward or honest answers, to having a fraudulent collection bill sent to me, and you attempting to turn your lies and deceit around on me (Which will not work!) is neglecting to take the time to work it out huh? You're the one who has not taken the time and purposely dragged the thing out and hoped it would just go away and attempted to steal money from me, and are continuing to do so through a collection agency to this day, and anyone can go read through all the support tickets and threads and see for themselves that that's the case.

    Originally posted by webseller

    So again, your options have been given and we are very willing to work with you, however, everything on our end shows that your server agreement had time remaining that.... well leave at this, which is under controversy from you.
    Hmm suddenly you're willing to work with me? After telling me that you will no longer deal directly with me, and after sending a fraudulent debt to collections? Yea and I should just believe you huh? Well as anyone can see I have reason not too. And there's nothing to work out. Canceling an account is as straight forward as possibly can be, and providing the evidence of how I was able to agree to a contract and the actual contract is as straight forward as can be as well. There's nothing to work out, you've done what you've done and I will deal with it without being deceived into believing crap like you're very willing to work with me after telling me over and over just the opposite and attempting to turn your absolute lies around me which of course will not work. I would think it's more along the lines of you're very willing to steal from me if there's any which way you possibly can. Wouldn't that be more accurate?

    And there is no controversy from me. Only facts. And the fact is I never agreed to any such server agreement and was never ever to this day presented with one in any which way whatsoever and was not even informed of such thing until an entire month after I cancelled my account with you! There was NO server agreement and you absolutely know it. You made it all up. You can't just tell people they are on contract without presenting it to them in any which whatsoever and without even informing them of it until after they cancel their account.

    And I have been given my options huh? Yea lies, lies, and more lies. Them are some real nice options to choose from aren't they? And it don't matter what it says on your end because you can go in and make it say anything you want. The only thing that matters is the absolute truth and you know I'm the one telling it, and that you have no way to actually prove me wrong or else you would have done it from the very beginning and there would have never been any need for me to post here on WHT.

    And your ridiculous claims about not talking about this due to your privacy policy (among all your other ridiculous excuses) are just that, ridiculous. What's so private about proving to me and others here how in the world it was possible for me to agree to a contract that I was never presented with or even informed of in any which way whatsoever until an entire month after I cancelled my account with you. Surely if there was such thing you would have been able to easily prove me wrong right from the beginning, and every other opportunity you had which is a whole lot. Funny that word contract never appeared on any place on your entire web site for the entire three or more years I had a server with you, yet I was on a contract huh? And there's nothing private about that. I ordered services via your online order form just like everyone else, so you would also need to claim that everyone else that ordered services at the time was on the same fake contract huh? If your made up crap about contracts was real then why haven't you proved to me and everyone else how it was possible for me to agree to it and post it up on your site for everyone to see? I have asked you this same thing multiple times over the past four months, but of course you simply cannot do it because you know just as well as I do that there was no such thing and if you were to actually do something like that you'd get caught right up in even more lies. Yea I know I've probably said the same things over and over, but that's because it's the truth and that's all I need to say unlike you who comes up with one lie after another.

  24. #24
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    How can webreseller(Account Disabled) have an account here as webseller when webreseller (Account Disabled) was disabled previously?

    I thought it your account was disabled you couldn't create a new account.

  25. #25
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    MMMedia, accounts aren't usually disabled permanently, only for a set amount of time at which time a member may request their account be reactivated. That's really the sort of thing to ask in the feedback forum, or the helpdesk:

    http://www.webhostingtalk.com/helpdesk/
    Eric J. Bowman, principal
    Bison Systems Corporation coming soon: a new sig!
    I'm just a poor, unfrozen caveman Webmaster. Your new 'standards' frighten, and confuse me...

  26. #26
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    Hosts have billing issues from time to time, stuff happens. That, in and of itself, doesn't indicate an unethical host.

    What strikes me as unethical is hosting a dedicated customer on a VPS. In fact, I even started a thread about the issue last summer, unrelated to webreseller:

    http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showth...hreadid=305165

    Originally posted by RadioFlyer
    While trying to track the server problem down ourselves, we found that areas of our "Dedicated Server" that we should have been able to access were unavailable to us. This was when we found that our "Dedicated Server" was in fact a VPS. Granted, it was a VPS with the use of the full system... but we signed up for (and were paying for) a "Dedicated Server" not a big VPS.
    Why didn't you respond to that allegation, webreseller? If my company were accused of such outright fraudulent behavior, I would certainly respond. You responded to every other detail in the OP, why skip over that one?

  27. #27
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    Originally posted by BigBison
    Hosts have billing issues from time to time, stuff happens. That, in and of itself, doesn't indicate an unethical host.
    No that in of itself doesn't indicate an unethical host. But a pattern of three or more years of the host intentionally, knowingly, and purposely not providing due refunds, and stealing or attempting to steal money from x-customers, and deceiving or attempting to deceive x-customers into believing absolutely false as can possibly be information, and then making up excuse after excuse in order to avoid responding to allegations, and attempting to make it out like the ones who are telling the absolute truth are the ones to blame for everything sure as heck does if you ask me. Especially when it's the same thing over and over for at least three or more years. I sure as heck don't think you can simply call that billing issues from time to time.

  28. #28
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    Yes, deadserious, you've said that. Over and over and over again. Your repetitious novellas do as much to discredit you, as webreseller. Please, stop trying to tell people what to think about this company, give them a chance to respond to the VPS issue, and let people decide for themselves what to think.

    In other words, you've made your point. Getting this thread locked won't help anybody.

  29. #29
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    Originally posted by BigBison
    Yes, deadserious, you've said that. Over and over and over again. Your repetitious novellas do as much to discredit you, as webreseller. Please, stop trying to tell people what to think about this company, give them a chance to respond to the VPS issue, and let people decide for themselves what to think.

    In other words, you've made your point. Getting this thread locked won't help anybody.
    I'm not going to stop telling the people the truth no matter whether you'd like me to or not when ever I see the need. And telling the absolute truth is not going to do nothing at all to discredit me like you're ridiculously trying to suggest. I'm not attempting to get a thread locked or any such thing. I simply responded to your comment in a thread that is regarding webresellers unethical business practices where you stated that "Hosts have billing issues from time to time, stuff happens. That, in and of itself, doesn't indicate an unethical host." Which indicated to me that you were making it out like Webreseller is just a host with billing issues and it's no big deal since you posted that comment in a thread about Webresellers billing/business practices. And because this thread is regarding webresellers unethical business practices I simply responded and agreed that you are right, but that is not the case with Webreseller.net if you ask me. I can and will post when I feel the need and am very well aware of the rules and the environment here and do not need to be told whether I should or should not be posting something. And I'm not telling people "what to think about" webreseller.

  30. #30
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    Fair enough, but you come across as someone with a personal axe to grind, rather than a truth to tell, and that is what discredits your position IMHO. I don't think I'm being ridiculous at all in pointing that out.

    When a thread degrades into a shouting match between two parties, repetitiously going nowhere, the mods here tend to lock it. I'm not accusing you of trying to get this thread locked, nor have I suggested that you stop telling the truth as you see it.

    I am suggesting that you give it a rest, you don't need to belabor the same point 20 times in one thread.

  31. #31
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    I just want to point something out, i too was kinda surprised that webreseller addressed all points but the VPS thing as although money is the obvious issue, that is fraud and a very serious accusation.

    I also have to say and i hope deadserious doesnt take this the wrong way, as i was reading through this thread at one point i actually scrolled up and down to make sure that i hadnt made a mistake and re-read a post cause while your quoting was in sync with the previous post made by webseller all your replies sounded and kinda were worded the same...i eventually just skimmed over your posts because all i got was, unethical, deciet, lieing...and so on as your main points repeated at times 2 or 3 times in each paragraph. I know your mad and trying to get the absolute truth out and i hope that something does work out in your favor in your specific case but it seems that maybe if you took the road that Radio Flyer took you may have a little more success.

    I too had actually been surpirsed that this thread wasnt closed, because it had boiled down to a shouting match between you and webseller or what ever they are called. Im not digging at ya im just pointing out how it comes off from someone reading it.
    Menttal

    "Diplomacy is the art of saying, "Nice doggie!"...until you can find a big stick."

  32. #32
    Originally posted by webseller
    Have a great day and we wish you all the very best...
    These constant pseudo-amiable closures that you stamp on the end of your messages have me convinced that you are indeed the liar that deadserious makes you out to be. The guy has been ranting, raving and blatantly slandering your company in precise, articulate (and redundant) attacks and you wish him the very best?



    How insincere and phony can you get, man? It's completely transparent.
    Last edited by mmaaaaattt; 05-25-2005 at 05:06 AM.

  33. #33
    VPS ISSUE*******

    I did not notice the issue about the VPS until "Big" brought it out, I was more concerned about the the billing issue and then of course deadserious back and fourth…

    As far as VPS, the customer indeed did signup for a dedicated server 2 years ago, HOWEVER, we use server exchange and when we USED to setup a managed customer if they wanted Esnim we would setup a 95% VPS.

    ******(PLEASE NOTE: It costs us more to have a VPS with Ensim then just a dedicated with Ensim)******

    What this does is allow us to mange the system better. When setting up the multi-tenant server which can be used for one customer or in several cases many it gives better management.

    Setting it up as a VPS allows us to do reboots direct from SX even if all the services are down on the server. It further allows us to enter the server through the backend and troubleshoot problems, patches are easier to apply, and the overall management is much better. With the VPS if the customer wants to go from 512 MB to 2 GIG to 3 GIGS we can easily do this, with the VPS you take an entire machine and with a few clicks move it from Piii to Xeon and ALL the data is moved and all the configurations remain the same. The advantages are endless and we are VERY happy that we did it this way.

    We DO have customers with older plans that are on a multi-tenant machine with other customers. If a customer ordered a dedicated server from us anytime in the last year or so they get a fully dedicated system becuase we are no longer deploying the Ensim VPS because:

    1. we are not pleased with it anymore
    2. Ensim does not appear to be taking proactive measures to continue R&D on it.

    The Ensim VPS was (and what the customer had) is very different from any other VPS on the market at the time. An ensim VPS DOES not share the OS. Ensim technology was setup so that you could guarantee resources (memory, storage) but also allow the customer to use as much as needed so longer as the box was not busy. The customer is ALWAYS guaranteed certain resources regardless of how busy the physical MT is. Unlike virtuoso, Ensim installs the full OS and their software for each VPS. Virtuosso uses shared resources from my understanding.

    The plan the customer had was also a very old plan, it goes back 2 years ago when the 95% was a great option.

    Something else to add, the reason why we use 95% is because the MT must have some resources as well since much of the management is done through it...
    Complete Reseller Solutions
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  34. #34
    Originally posted by mjzz
    These constant pseudo-amiable closures that you stamp on the end of your messages have me convinced that you are indeed the liar that deadserious makes you out to be. The guy has been ranting, raving and blatantly slandering your company in precise, articulate (and redundant) attacks and you wish him the very best?



    How insincere and phony can you get, man? It's completely transparent.
    Give one good reason why we should wish the worse. Just because he has an issue with us does not mean I or this company is going to change our overall philosophy and that is to see companies and/or individuals succeed.

    With all due respect, if turning the other cheek and not stooping down to his level is wrong then I guess we are wrong. This industry is already difficult and stressful enough, there is no need to compound it more and quite honestly, personally, I have never met and/or talked to deadserious except via WHT, personally I may not care for deadserious that much, BUT, this is business and that is that.

    So, are they sincere? Absolutely

    We have enough customers that are very pleased with us that we are not going to let one change our responses.
    Complete Reseller Solutions
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  35. #35
    Originally posted by webseller
    Give one good reason why we should wish the worse. Just because he has an issue with us does not mean I or this company is going to change our overall philosophy and that is to see companies and/or individuals succeed.

    With all due respect, if turning the other cheek and not stooping down to his level is wrong then I guess we are wrong. This industry is already difficult and stressful enough, there is no need to compound it more and quite honestly, personally, I have never met and/or talked to deadserious except via WHT, personally I may not care for deadserious that much, BUT, this is business and that is that.

    So, are they sincere? Absolutely

    We have enough customers that are very pleased with us that we are not going to let one change our responses.

    a post like that.wont get you any new cliants either

  36. #36
    Not looking for that... It's clear that we are simply stating our policy, we are not going to wish anything negative on someone because they have a problem or had problems with us and that is that...

    Why would this remotely have anything to do with new customers...? Someone asked if we were being sarcastic and we answered it. Simple as that 
    Complete Reseller Solutions
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  37. #37
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    Originally posted by webseller
    ...allows us to enter the server through the backend...
    That is not what a dedicated server customer signs up for. From a customer perspective, a VPS gives root access to a machine. But there's an understanding with that, that not everything (like a kernel rebuild) can be accomplished without root access to the underlying machine. It is also understood that others have root access to the server.

    When a customer signs up for a dedicated server, they have every right to expect that they, and only they, will have root access to the machine and furthermore, that it is full root access. I have a dedicated server, and I guarantee you my host does not have the root password for the box unless I give it to them.

    From where I sit, it is unconscionable that you would operate in such a fashion, without disclosing that information to your customers, either before or after they sign up. A VPS is not the same thing as a dedicated server, limiting the VPS to one customer doesn't change this fact at all.

    Advertising one service (dedicated server) and implementing another (VPS) without notifying the customer is a fraudulent business practice. If you don't like that I said that, webreseller, then you need to take a night class in business ethics or something, because the term "Bait and Switch" certainly applies here.

  38. #38
    Originally posted by webseller
    Not looking for that... It's clear that we are simply stating our policy, we are not going to wish anything negative on someone because they have a problem or had problems with us and that is that...

    Why would this remotely have anything to do with new customers...? Someone asked if we were being sarcastic and we answered it. Simple as that 
    because if i was looking for a host and seen theys post i would look the other way. as a company i sure wouldnt use wht as a place to resolve a complaint

  39. #39
    When that customer signed up 2 years ago it was clearly mentioned on our site and we would always tell customers... The RHM servers were setup like that,...
    Complete Reseller Solutions
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  40. #40
    Last bit of information on this, I pulled the agreement from this person in particular and it does show what he is getting and it also states that root password is not suppose to be given out for it... For the most part, when you purchase a managed server we so not give the root password (unless requested) because since it's managed we are taking care of all issues and patches.

    The whole idea behind fully managed is the customer does not have to worry about the security on their server... To facilitate this we install many scripts that report back to us...

    I agree with you big in regards to not saying anything or saying something, BUT, we did and Ensim themselves for a long time told us to market it like that. As far as I am concerned if the server is 100% yours and the MT technology is being used to manage (managed server) it then there is nothing wrong. Of course we do not use it anymore because of the Ensim issues, however, at one time it was the very best and as secure as it gets. In addition, when we were using it, the VPS was so secure that it was endorsed at one point by the DOF for its security.... That alone is excellent
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