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05-17-2005, 03:17 AM #26Riiiiiiiiiiiiight...
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Please point out to me where newsweek claimed the story was completely fake? and please, when did I say this story was accurate? It seems we have alot of people that arent able to comprehend simple english... lately.
"Based on what we know now, we are retracting our original story that an internal military investigation had uncovered Qur'an abuse at Guantanamo Bay."0
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05-17-2005, 03:44 AM #27Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by adorno
I think AussieBob was pointing the finger at the extreme religious Islamic fanatics.
I'm a moderate, and a live and let live chap. I don't understand these folks rioting because someone apparently misused a koran. Seems a massive overreaction, imo.0
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05-17-2005, 03:50 AM #28Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by azizny
I do not see how that line passed me, but are you saying that all Muslims are Fanatics?0
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05-17-2005, 04:04 AM #29Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by case
Please point out to me where newsweek claimed the story was completely fake? and please, when did I say this story was accurate?
It is unfortunate that the desire to get higher ratings often results in terrible tragedies.0
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05-17-2005, 04:37 AM #30An Awesome Dude
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I hope they like all the deaths and injuries this story has caused!!
Tinyurl is the answer for posting long urls!!!0
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05-17-2005, 04:38 AM #31Web Hosting Master
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05-17-2005, 04:42 AM #32Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by case
Please point out to me where newsweek claimed the story was completely fake? and please, when did I say this story was accurate? It seems we have alot of people that arent able to comprehend simple english... lately.
"Based on what we know now, we are retracting our original story that an internal military investigation had uncovered Qur'an abuse at Guantanamo Bay."
'Protests broke out across much of the Muslim world last week after the Newsweek article appeared.
It said US investigators had found evidence that interrogators flushed a copy of the holy book down a toilet in an attempt to rattle detainees.
The violence left about 15 dead and many injured in Afghanistan.
"It's appalling that this story got out there," Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said.'
It is a case of controlling the news, not "correcting" it,0
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05-17-2005, 04:49 AM #33Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by The Dude
I hope they like all the deaths and injuries this story has caused!!<erno> hm. I've lost a machine.. literally _lost_. it responds to ping, it works completely, I just can't figure out where in my apartment it is.0
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05-17-2005, 04:56 AM #34Riiiiiiiiiiiiight...
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This is interesting:
http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centr...s/11665296.htm
"Nevertheless, the Pentagon's Southern Command, which includes Guantanamo 's Camp Delta, is now investigating allegations a spokesman called "credible" that dozens of detainees have complained for years about the desecration of Islam's holy book.
U.S. officials said the allegations are well-known.
"We're aware there might have been mishandling of the Koran," a military source told the Daily News.
The source also said early incidents of mishandling Korans were raised by Army Capt. James Yee, the camp's Muslim imam, who persuaded commanders to bar troops from touching Korans. Yee was later accused of spying, was exonerated and is now working on a book.
The alleged desecrations of Korans have sparked uprisings in the prison and even a mass-suicide attempt by 25 men, sources inside and outside the military said.
"I've got 13 (clients) and almost all of them make similar accusations," said Marc Falkoff, a lawyer for a group of Guantanamo terror suspects.
Falkoff's unclassified notes from January interviews with his clients state that some saw Korans tossed in toilets, intentionally dropped on the ground and stomped on.
Southern Command spokesman Raul Duany declined to comment on the allegations, but said of the new probe, "We've always looked into any credible allegations."
After speaking to prisoner Yasin Hasem Muhammed Ismail in January, Falkoff wrote, "In one camp, 25 men tried to hang themselves . . . because a guard threw a Koran on the floor."
Another client, Yasim Qasem Ismail, said a prisoner "tried to kill himself after guards took his Koran and threw it in the toilet."
The military source confirmed a mass-suicide attempt occurred, but didn't know why.
In August, the Center for Constitutional Rights said three Brits released from Gitmo alleged Korans were dunked by guards."0
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05-17-2005, 05:02 AM #35Web Hosting Master
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Like I asked before, even if the story was true, and the books were misused, does that excuse these riots and murders?
How can anyone get so upset over a book? The koran is the muslim 'bible' and I can't see there being rioting in the streets if someone was misusing a christian bible.0
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05-17-2005, 05:10 AM #36Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by Aussie Bob
Like I asked before, even if the story was true, and the books were misused, does that excuse these riots and murders?
How can anyone get so upset over a book? The koran is the muslim 'bible' and I can't see there being rioting in the streets if someone was misusing a christian bible.
the Koran is the unmodified word of Allah (swt) passed on to us through the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh). three of the most important things in Islam.<erno> hm. I've lost a machine.. literally _lost_. it responds to ping, it works completely, I just can't figure out where in my apartment it is.0
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05-17-2005, 06:46 AM #37Web Hosting Master
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Aussie Bob, I know where you coming from but you should have known by know that Muslims look at different way to their religion.
I remember a priest telling me that this like is just like a dream to a Muslim, your real life starts once you die. Only difference is you can change the real life by do everything possible for Allah (God).
I know Islam never thought me any violence. I pray 5 times a day and follow everything I can. But the truth is I know that if someone is (God forbids) doing the same thing with Qur'an in front of me, it would not take me a second to react to that and it could be anything to make it stop.
These riots are wrong but I see them the same way as the example above where they don't want this to happen ever again and they will do whatever it takes to stop it.
Now other thing you gotta look at is where these riots broke. From my understanding, few parts of Afghanistan and Pakistan.
The US is already there because they wanted them to stop living those kinda lives... Or so they say.0
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05-17-2005, 06:57 AM #38Web Hosting Master
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Slightly off topic here, but it is something which really bothers me.
People always talk about Muslims and their suicide bombs. What about the Tamil Tigers? They aren't Muslim yet they suicide bomb a hell of a lot more...
Why doesn't anyone complain about them? Is it because they don't attack white people?
I think the attacks aganist Islam are very unfair. A few extremists does not make Islam bad. I am sure there are just as many whackos in nice, white Christian US/EU.Last edited by Max Renn; 05-17-2005 at 07:03 AM.
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05-17-2005, 07:01 AM #39Disabled
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Originally posted by Aussie Bob
Like I asked before, even if the story was true, and the books were misused, does that excuse these riots and murders?
How can anyone get so upset over a book? The koran is the muslim 'bible' and I can't see there being rioting in the streets if someone was misusing a christian bible.
Bob, you are dealing with a religion that, in some places, it is a death penalty offense to desecrate this book.
If this is how you are brought up then I don't see how you could avoid this kind of radical religious fundamentalism.0
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05-17-2005, 08:15 AM #40Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by blue27
Bob, you are dealing with a religion that, in some places, it is a death penalty offense to desecrate this book.
If this is how you are brought up then I don't see how you could avoid this kind of radical religious fundamentalism.
Anyway, regarding Newsweek journalist practises, mistakes happen. CBS, BBC, NYTimes have faulted before. It is a tough decision.
According to Paul Reynolds in this article, it is the problem with anonymity sources.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4551683.stm0
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05-17-2005, 09:28 AM #41An Awesome Dude
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Originally posted by ALGORYTHM
the story is just the spark, the fuel, the anti american attitudes have been around for years now and it only ever takes one well publicised news story, true or false, highly factual or partially inaccurate to ignite it.
Ya cant really rule anything out
Tinyurl is the answer for posting long urls!!!0
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05-17-2005, 10:06 AM #42Aspiring Evangelist
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Originally posted by Staff.ie
Slightly off topic here, but it is something which really bothers me.
People always talk about Muslims and their suicide bombs. What about the Tamil Tigers? They aren't Muslim yet they suicide bomb a hell of a lot more...
Why doesn't anyone complain about them? Is it because they don't attack white people?
I think the attacks aganist Islam are very unfair. A few extremists does not make Islam bad. I am sure there are just as many whackos in nice, white Christian US/EU.
1. They are complained about. Obviously so in Sri Lanka. They don't make American news because they currently are not affecting American lives. If you watch world news or the BBC you'll occasionally hear a bit about the Tigers.
Right now, since our military is currently where they are, we hear more of the accounts in those areas. If the Tigers are viewed as a "terroristic threat" then I can assume that they will be a heavy news topic in the years to come. It's a sort of focus by the media on what is a "hot topic" for Americans.
2. I am in agreeance with you on the fact that the poor treatment and views of Islam is entirely unfair, yet, let's take a look at base human tendencies.
We, as human beings like to group everyone together in large groups, give them titles, describe their tendencies, and not allow exceptions to cross our minds. So, as a result, when one person, or a small group of people within our large group do one thing that is obscenely radical, some people tend to keep them all grouped together and refer to them as "all bad."
Each individual person is different, and with the slip in morals, ethics, and common sense, it's common for these kinds of things to happen. If you look into the history of people, in most wars people who came from the opposing countries, or in this case, those related slightly to those we are against, in any manner, are viewed as possibly being the same as those who did the evil deed.
In American history, we need not look far to see an example, when at war with the Japanese, most Japanese-Americans were moved to camps and reserves so that the gov't could keep an eye on them. Personally, I don't condone of this kind of treatment to people in general, yet, it almost makes some sort of sense.
The mistreatment of the Holy Text of any religion is something that should be frowned upon. For one, the texts are pure representations of everything they believe in. Another reason is, to mess with the texts is to ensure a base resentment from the entire religion. It is not intelligent to do, and it goes against the beliefs of most religions.
It also is against the principles of the United States foundation.
Freedom of religion is extremely important, and there are very few people who would not fight for this right. To not show respect for the Holy Text of a religion is to not show respect for the United States.
Is it because they don't attack white people? / nice, white Christian US/EU
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05-17-2005, 10:20 AM #43Web Hosting Master
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Hi Dennis,
I agree with your points, but the fact remains... white, Christian US/EU IS a (semi-)racist bunch.
Do you really think we'd ignore Africa like we do if they were white?
Would "we" (I'm generalising) really be so afraid of Palestinians if they were nice white guys in suits with American accents like the jewish Israelis? (and as you know, the jewish Israelis are waaay more violent and murderous than the Palestinians - look at the death count.)
You may not like to admit it, but we stick up for the white guy.0
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05-17-2005, 11:07 AM #44Away
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Originally posted by Staff.ie
Hi Dennis,
I agree with your points, but the fact remains... white, Christian US/EU IS a (semi-)racist bunch.
Do you really think we'd ignore Africa like we do if they were white?
Would "we" (I'm generalising) really be so afraid of Palestinians if they were nice white guys in suits with American accents like the jewish Israelis? (and as you know, the jewish Israelis are waaay more violent and murderous than the Palestinians - look at the death count.)
You may not like to admit it, but we stick up for the white guy.
I guess we just like sticking up for the white man, except there were no white men to defend when we went into Somalia, Korea, Taiwan, Hati, Dominican Republic, etc.0
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05-17-2005, 11:31 AM #45Web Hosting Master
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I was generalising, but in general, it is true.
Look at my country - Ireland. The US government really cares about Northern Ireland.
Yes, I know this is partly for votes, but there are a lot of black people in the US. Does the US government give a **** about Africa? I think not.
Please explain why this is, if it is not racial.
(I am open to being incorrect.)0
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05-17-2005, 12:22 PM #46Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by RossH
What an ignorant statement.......
I guess we just like sticking up for the white man, except there were no white men to defend when we went into Somalia, Korea, Taiwan, Hati, Dominican Republic, etc.
No there was no white man, but went into Somailia to help U.S. backed dictator (@$$) Siad Barre!!!
and the list can go on and on with the countries you listed.
Every country looks at its interest, US being the top at that.
Peace,Testing 1.. Testing 1..2.. Testing 1..2..3...0
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05-17-2005, 12:37 PM #47Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by RossH
What an ignorant statement.......
I guess we just like sticking up for the white man, except there were no white men to defend when we went into Somalia, Korea, Taiwan, Hati, Dominican Republic, etc.
Somalia? TAIWAN??
Korea... OK, it an extent. But that's only because the US is against North Korea.
Haiti and Domnican Republic. As a previous poster stated, helping out a US backed regime is not quite unbiased helping...
BUT, I do not want to being this topic waaay off topic like this, so feel free not to respond to me.
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05-17-2005, 01:18 PM #48Aspiring Evangelist
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Buddhism all the way
When was the last time you hear controversial issues from Buddhist communities/religion?0
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05-17-2005, 02:05 PM #49Disabled
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Originally posted by TieuDieuTu
Buddhism all the way
When was the last time you hear controversial issues from Buddhist communities/religion?
How about having the world adopt a policy of no mentioning of religion at all except at home, at places of worship or at strictly religious functions.
I'll bet a lot of wars would be prevented if religion was not front and center on the world stage.
No question that that would solve a lot of problems. The question is, how to go about it.0
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05-17-2005, 02:15 PM #50Riiiiiiiiiiiiight...
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Originally posted by TieuDieuTu
Buddhism all the way
When was the last time you hear controversial issues from Buddhist communities/religion?0