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  1. #1

    Am I the only one who worries about this?

    I posted about this in the security issues section on the 12th and still haven't seen any response there so I'd thought I'd post here and rephrase it. I want a host who handles their shared hosting in such a way that I won't find that my boss's important e-mail to someone won't be blocked AT ALL because some idjit has been spamming from the same server we're on. I've been hit with this issue several times with our current host (1and1) as well as getting tons of spam making it through their filters. Someone responded to me at one time that it wasn't a big deal if they fixed it in a week or so. Really? Somehow I just don't consider that an adequate answer for the president of our company when he asks me why the e-mail he sent to someone about a business matter that needs to be cleared up in a matter of days is being bounced. Is there any solution shy of going to a dedicated server, which is more bucks than they want to spend.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    Jim,

    In a shared environment - people on the same server are always going to have an effect.

    That said even being a VPS or dedicated means you can get blacklisted as well and some of the "cool kid blacklists" (SPEWS) won't even remove you even if you wanted or didn't do anything in the first place.

    Go for VPS - it's much cheaper than a dedicated but you'll have more control.
    David
    Web hosting by Fused For businesses with more important things to do than worry about their hosting.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    771
    Any host can get on a blacklist at some point or another. It can happen but (in my opinion) when you use a host that promotes by giving away tons of free accounts cough cough 1and1 you will have a higher chance since spammers will take that free account and do whatever they can until they get caught.

    Now like noted above a dedicated server will help some but if spews or some ther BL blocks a whole IP range you might get hit anyway.



    Robert
    Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Chicago, Illinois
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    474
    Spamming is a major problem in the web hosting industry and it has to be dealt with swiftly by your host. Spam filters help but are not enough, your hosting service needs to keep a close eye on server wide incoming & outgoing email. Most of the time you can eliminate the problem before it gets out of hand. One good way is for your host to limit the amount of outbound email that a user can send per hour. Since most spammers send hundreds to thousands of emails at a time, this would give your host a chance to put a stop to it quickly. Even this is not 100% because if you are on an ip that is black listed, your email can still be blocked. Good luck.

  5. #5
    Controlling SPAM and Abuse issues is a full time Job in and of itself. We have a full time staff dedicated to just dealing with these issues.

    When you host in a shared environment you place more trust in your host than you would if you were on a dedicated server. Will your host make the right choices when it comes to abuse complaints and how fast will your host react are pretty critical aspects of running a tight ship.

    Just my 2 cents.
    Bill Kish
    TotalChoice Hosting
    Hosting over 50,000 clients since 2000
    http://www.totalchoicehosting.com

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    771
    Originally posted by TotalChoice
    Controlling SPAM and Abuse issues is a full time Job in and of itself. We have a full time staff dedicated to just dealing with these issues.

    When you host in a shared environment you place more trust in your host than you would if you were on a dedicated server. Will your host make the right choices when it comes to abuse complaints and how fast will your host react are pretty critical aspects of running a tight ship.

    Just my 2 cents.

    Very good point..

    You should know how fast does your host respond to spam complaints? How fast do they pull an account for spamming? Do they have feedback loops with the major ISP's so they know quickly if someone reports spam. Does your data center take spamming serious and do they notify you right away when they get a complaint.

    Robert
    Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    51
    I recommend looking at each host's spamming policy. Ideally you want spammers to be dealt with swiftly so your IPs are not affected. On the flipside, you don't want your servers to be taken down for spamming when you haven't.

    Spammers are attracted to vendors that offer low fees, because spammers know they will eventually be shut down. It's a business to them. If avoiding spammers is your primary concern, the probability of spammers choosing a premium provider is lower than a budget provider.

    To conclude, spamming will always be a problem. Having a dedicated server doesn't fully protect you from the negative externalities of spammers. Look for a well established hoster that knows how to deal with hosters.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    New York.
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    Post

    That is a concern of many users. It is frustrating when contacts cannot get their email through. This shouldn't be that much of a problem if your host reacts fast. Most hosts can and should maintain a BlackList of spammers.
    GenerousWebHosting.com Home of Generous George the Red Monster.
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  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
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    UK
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    Hi,

    Indeed this can be an issue, the best option is to select an option which provides you with a dedicated IP address on a shared hosting environment, this will allow you to not only save money by using a shared hosting account instead of a reseller account which may not be required but provides you with a dedicated IP addresses for your own use.

    So you get the best of both worlds, alternatively, you could always setup your own mail server if you have a reliable internet connection at your place of work. I would personally recommend MailEnable.com as they provide a freeware unrestricted mail server too, and later on, should you need more features you can purchase their professional and enterprise editions.

    But if you wish to stick to an outsourced option on a shared hosting environment, I would recommend purchasing a plan which provides dedicated IP addresses, or a E-mail hosting plan.
    Tahir Ahmed
    NetspaceOnline.net - Reliable Personal Web Site Hosting & Business Web Hosting Solutions!
    NSDomains.net - Our Dedicated Domain Registration & Management Portal!
    Reseller Hosting Solutions Linux Plesk 8 Control Panel Provding Quality Hosting Since 2001

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    New Jersey
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    793
    I'm with NS-Icon - if you grab a dedicated IP address from your host then you will help to solve the problem. Another alternative is to host the site on their servers and go with an offsite email only package somewhere else.

    Lots of good suggestions here - hope one helps you out!

  11. #11
    The dedicated IP address is the solution that I thought should work but in another thread discussing whether or not having a dedicated IP address was worth it several people tried to claim that a dedicated IP on a shared server wouldn't help. I was looking at Interland since they include a dedicated IP address at a reasonable price.

    Thanks for all of the feedback, folks.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
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    UK
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    As far as I am aware, even if you are on a shared hosting environment, you have a dedicated IP address and for this reason, as this IP is not being shared cannot actually be blacklisted due to abuse by anyone using the shared hosting environment IP address.

    The solution should work, you can check with Interland and see what their view is too, but again, I still think that would be the best approach.
    Tahir Ahmed
    NetspaceOnline.net - Reliable Personal Web Site Hosting & Business Web Hosting Solutions!
    NSDomains.net - Our Dedicated Domain Registration & Management Portal!
    Reseller Hosting Solutions Linux Plesk 8 Control Panel Provding Quality Hosting Since 2001

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    26
    You could use one of the many paid email services. Make sure to choose one with a good reputation. They will try hard not getting blacklisted as it would destroy their business.

    With some of these paid email services you can sign up a domain account like name(at)yourdomain.com and host your domain's email with them.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA USA
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    Solutions to email blocking and spam prevention

    To prevent your email server from ending up on Real Time Black Lists.
    1) Install SpamGuard. It allows you to automatically block a users email account if it hits predetermined limits. Customers' accounts then have to be manually turned back on to resume normal operations.
    2) Force Sender Checks to make sure that senders email address matches a live email address on your server for their account.
    3) Have SMTP authorization match to email address or use POP before SMTP assigned to the IP address of the POP user.
    4) Require a fully qualified domain email address in RCPT TO and MAIL FROM SMTP commands.

    For inbound spam we have found adding RBLs (Real Time Black Lists) at the mail server along with individual mail box spam configurations and white lists have eliminated most all problems.

    Another problem some hosts have is failure to configure their mail servers with reverse DNS. As spam prevention gets more difficult I think you are going to find less ISP that allow for incoming email from unidentified mail hosts.

    And when all else fails your provider should have a backup mail server on a different network for you to use.

    I thing the difference is if your hosts target market is the masses or real business customers
    Link On Us .com
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  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2004
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    Lansing, MI, USA
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    Originally posted by NS-Icon
    As far as I am aware, even if you are on a shared hosting environment, you have a dedicated IP address and for this reason, as this IP is not being shared cannot actually be blacklisted due to abuse by anyone using the shared hosting environment IP address.

    The solution should work, you can check with Interland and see what their view is too, but again, I still think that would be the best approach.
    Dedicated IP or not, the mail server STILL sends out of the same ip address for everyone. If the server gets blacklisted, your still in the hole.

    This is a common misconception though, so don't feel bad
    Jacob - WebOnce Technologies - 30 Day 100% Satisfaction Guarantee - Over 5 Years Going Strong!
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  16. #16
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    Sep 2003
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    Ahh indeed, seemed to have overlooked that so the only real option would be for a dedicated / managed server which you can control yourself.
    Tahir Ahmed
    NetspaceOnline.net - Reliable Personal Web Site Hosting & Business Web Hosting Solutions!
    NSDomains.net - Our Dedicated Domain Registration & Management Portal!
    Reseller Hosting Solutions Linux Plesk 8 Control Panel Provding Quality Hosting Since 2001

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
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    Even IF the host is diligent in stopping spam and making sure they stay off the blocklists, the data center might not be, or the backbone provider might not be.

    It's not uncommon, especially for the more "intense" block lists to block even class B ip ranges, not just class A or infividual ips (ok Class B might be exaggeration but I've seen Spes block /20 ranges or even /19 or /18 ranges!).

    So no matter who you host with, ending up on one blocklist or another is QUITE possible.
    Gary Harris - the artist formerly known as Dixiesys
    resident grumpy redneck

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    CT
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    Originally posted by NS-Icon
    Ahh indeed, seemed to have overlooked that so the only real option would be for a dedicated / managed server which you can control yourself.
    He mentioned that in the original post.

    Originally posted by Jim S at Work
    Is there any solution shy of going to a dedicated server, which is more bucks than they want to spend.
    Do you have a dedicated internet connection at your work? If so running your own mailserver there could be an option. I do some work for a small business (40 email accounts) that does this using Rockcliff mail server on windows. Sure it takes some technical know how to get it going but you are in total control of the emails coming from your ip, assuming you don't end up running an open relay.

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