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  1. #1
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    National id card passed by senate.

    The End of America?




    May 12, 2005
    Alert From Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership
    America's Aggressive Civil Rights Organization
    JPFO.org

    On Tuesday, May 10, 2005, America became a true police state. Your U.S. senators voted -- unanimously, with no discussion, and without even reading the bill -- to create a national ID card.

    The Real ID Act blackmails state governments into turning their drivers licenses into a draconian tool of the federal homeland security apparatus. If states refuse, their citizens lose such "privileges" as being allowed to board an airplane, enter a federal building, or apply for social security. President Bush is expected to sign the bill eagerly on Thursday.

    In three years -- by May 2008 -- this Stalin-style internal passport will be an American reality. But your government will have _more_ control over you than Stalin ever dreamed in his most violent, vicious, anti-freedom dreams. (See links to the text of the law and articles about it at the bottom of this article.)

    But that's only the beginning.

    The creator of the Real ID Act, Rep. James Sensenbrenner, smiles and tells us that his Real ID Act is all about "solving illegal immigration" or "preventing terrorists from entering the country." This is one of the biggest of the thousands of "Big Lies" we've heard from the tyrants in Washington. The Real ID Act is about tracking and controlling Americans. You. Me. Our children. Everybody.

    In May 2008, barring a miracle, America as we once knew it will be in ruins. It will be gone. And the rights of gun owners will be among the first scheduled for destruction.

    ------------opinion rant snipped---------------

    ABOUT THE REAL ID ACT

    Text of the law:
    http://tinyurl.com/3qdv4

    "No Real Debate for Real ID"
    http://tinyurl.com/b4xqv

    "Last Chance to Stop National ID"
    http://www.antiwar.com/paul/?articleid=5887 . (written before
    Senate passage)

    * We spell G-d this way because in Judaism it is considered
    a sign of respect. We spell out the name of the Creator
    only in sacred settings.

    Original Material in JPFO ALERTS is Copyright 2005 JPFO, Inc.
    Permission is granted to reproduce this alert in full, so long
    as the following JPFO contact information is included:

    Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership
    PO Box 270143
    Hartford, Wisconsin 53027

    Phone: 1-262-673-9745
    Order line: 1-800-869-1884 (toll-free!)
    Fax: 1-262-673-9746
    http://www.jpfo.org/

    http://www.jpfo.org/alert20050511.htm

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  2. #2
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    Ugh ********* this is bad
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  3. #3
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    Of course this was gonna get passed, it was attached to the military spending bill. I'm for the ID anyways, so it's all good.
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  4. #4
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    Yippee...now we can start the argument all over again!
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  5. #5
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    Though I didn't have time to read through the whole text, I don't see how this is going to be used to track and control us, aside from tracking motor vehical related issues on a national scale instead of statewide scale.
    SEC. 203. LINKING OF DATABASES.

    (a) In General- To be eligible to receive any grant or other type of financial assistance made available under this title, a State shall participate in the interstate compact regarding sharing of driver license data, known as the `Driver License Agreement', in order to provide electronic access by a State to information contained in the motor vehicle databases of all other States.

    (b) Requirements for Information- A State motor vehicle database shall contain, at a minimum, the following information:

    (1) All data fields printed on drivers' licenses and identification cards issued by the State.

    (2) Motor vehicle drivers' histories, including motor vehicle violations, suspensions, and points on licenses.
    Aside from the new requirements for the state to digitize and store copies of the proof of ID, and verify your forms of ID with another government agency that issued it, this seems to add no additional information onto my driver's license than the new NJ driver's license includes. It seems to me that people are overreacting to what seems to be a national driver's license. If you can point out how it violates our freedoms and liberty, I'll take my comments back, though.
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  6. #6
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    When are we suppose to be getting the new national ID anyways? Where we suppose to go? As well why should the government tell us what we should do? I thought the State is suppose to have the powers not the government.
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  7. #7
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    I guess the America as it is known, the good old free country of dreams, is gone for good in 3 years from now "Free" is the keyword here..
    * Losers make excuses - winners make it happen *
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  8. #8
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    Originally posted by Joshua
    If you can point out how it violates our freedoms and liberty, I'll take my comments back, though.

    Well if you do not get a National ID then you are limited to what you can do now (before the National ID). So wouldn't that be taking our freedoms and liberty away?
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  9. #9
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    *

    Originally posted by Torith
    I thought the State is suppose to have the powers not the government.
    This is why most states are having an extremly hard time balancing their state budgets. The government keeps cutting programs, and cutting federal money for the states.. and they can't support state-wide programs like Medicade, and Medical (in California). The states are being forced to do Bush's dirty work...

    I'm not really going to fight about the National ID Card, because it was eventually going to happen. There was nothing anyone could do about it. I knew back in the middle 90's. When the Repubs got the senate, congress, and the Whitehouse.. all of this stuff would become reality.. thanks right-wingers we sure live in a better country now don't we

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  10. #10
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    Oh like if a state trys to do something the government doesn't like it will say it will cut funding for the highways? Oh that is nothing new....


    Originally posted by RealtorHost
    This is why most states are having an extremly hard time balancing their state budgets. The government keeps cutting programs, and cutting federal money for the states.. and they can't support state-wide programs like Medicade, and Medical (in California). The states are being forced to do Bush's dirty work...

    I'm not really going to fight about the National ID Card, because it was eventually going to happen. There was nothing anyone could do about it. I knew back in the middle 90's. When the Repubs got the senate, congress, and the Whitehouse.. all of this stuff would become reality.. thanks right-wingers we sure live in a better country now. don't we
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  11. #11
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    Originally posted by Torith
    Oh like if a state trys to do something the government doesn't like it will say it will cut funding for the highways? Oh that is nothing new....
    Well its more like.. the federal government is quickly cutting back a lot of education money, border security money, and a bunch of social services. When it does this.. the states are either forced to majorly raise taxes, or just outright cut the programs.

    If our federal government wants all the "non-rich" to be poor, sick, and uneducated.. well wow boys your doing a great job...keep it up..
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  12. #12
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    I have a feeling this will get slapped down later on just like it has several times before...
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  13. #13
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    As long as republicans hold the majority.. I doubt this will be slapped down.. but 2006 is just around the corner.
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  14. #14
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    Smokey the bear says, "Only you have the power to start a civil war!"
    Cody Watson
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  15. #15
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    Originally posted by cwatson
    Smokey the bear says,"Only you have the power to start a civil war!"
    Could happen sooner then people think....
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  16. #16
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    Ok Folks, you all know I enjoy a good argument . sorry debate, however on this occassion lets just not go there again

    A lot of people are against the card, a lot of people are for the card, it is fairly obvious you lot are stuck with it. Let's just pray that clown we (Australia) doesn't try to pull thw same stunt here.

    BTW. Any of you that would sooner relocate rather that be subjected to this latest indignation you can always come down under, we actually do havea free country.

    Doc
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    If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy ?
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  17. #17
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    Lets try and debate (if we're gonna on this) nice and calmly .. Nothing we can do to stop it,so no point in getting all huffy puffy and risk angering the staff right??

    God Bless

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  18. #18
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    I dont like Bush, but I must say I do not disapprove of the ID cards at all.

    All the pariniods out there thinking ID cards will allow the government to read out thoughts are just....well pariniod.
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  19. #19
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    Originally posted by Torith
    When are we suppose to be getting the new national ID anyways? Where we suppose to go? As well why should the government tell us what we should do? I thought the State is suppose to have the powers not the government.
    Expect all ID cards to be Nationalized in around 3 - 4 years.
    You go and get it at the same place you got your current ID card.

    The federal government is taking this power away from the states in this bill. Thats what part of this fuss is about. The federal government will now set the standards and have control over this proccess.
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  20. #20
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    I see nothing wrong with this. We're not getting a new ID card, rather, it's just a national standard for a state ID card. I don't see the point in CA having different rules for an ID card than say, NY. If we really are the United States, shouldn't our ID cards have the same standards? If not, why?
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  21. #21
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    Originally posted by Torith
    When are we suppose to be getting the new national ID anyways? Where we suppose to go? As well why should the government tell us what we should do? I thought the State is suppose to have the powers not the government.
    You have to wonder how the national ID system fits in with the Republicans' States' Rights platform... same with the Terry Shaivo case... Are the Republicans even for states rights anymore?
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  22. #22
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    Originally posted by varg
    I see nothing wrong with this. We're not getting a new ID card, rather, it's just a national standard for a state ID card. I don't see the point in CA having different rules for an ID card than say, NY. If we really are the United States, shouldn't our ID cards have the same standards? If not, why?
    You seem to have bolded the wrong portion, that should read The United States of America.
    My beef with this card is the handling of information and who will have it. Im sure the people at the dmv have never made an error so if they hit the wrong key, you are no longer you anymore. Also if all of the information is in one place, thats too much of a risk of its compromised.
    Why do they call them fingers? I never seen them fing. Oh, there they go.
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  23. #23
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    As long as republicans hold the majority.. I doubt this will be slapped down.. but 2006 is just around the corner.
    On Tuesday, May 10, 2005, America became a true police state. Your U.S. senators voted -- unanimously, with no discussion, and without even reading the bill -- to create a national ID card.
    Unanimously is slightly more than a small majority last time I checked. Don't blame it all on the Republicans - they aren't the only ones.
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  24. #24
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    Originally posted by 3spades
    You seem to have bolded the wrong portion, that should read The United States of America.
    My beef with this card is the handling of information and who will have it. Im sure the people at the dmv have never made an error so if they hit the wrong key, you are no longer you anymore. Also if all of the information is in one place, thats too much of a risk of its compromised.
    Yeah or it is not like no one ever is corrupted by money. Since so many people can have access to this ID what happens say a corrupted higher power (police and above) gets a hold of the ID? Think it is foolish thinking? How many people each and every day will do anything for money even if it is against the law? It is more then you think.

    As well we should not be punished for nothing having a National ID. Since I did not want one in the first place.
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  25. #25
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    Originally posted by 3spades
    You seem to have bolded the wrong portion, that should read The United States of America.
    My beef with this card is the handling of information and who will have it. Im sure the people at the dmv have never made an error so if they hit the wrong key, you are no longer you anymore. Also if all of the information is in one place, thats too much of a risk of its compromised.
    No, I bolded the portion I meant to and I'll stick with what I said. Why is it a good idea to have different standards in different states for an ID card that has the same function? You didn't answer that question.
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  26. #26
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    as I said before its just a waste of money we don't have at this time. Its just going to create a false sense of security to citizens.
    Kerry Jones
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  27. #27
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    I think it's a waste of money and wont help anything, other than that I hate the BS rhetoric that gets regurgitated from what someone just read on the internet turning this into a communist or fascist move instead of it's actual ignorant intentions.
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  28. #28
    ok, next step CANADA
    ^_^
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  29. #29
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    Our drivers Lic is almost the same thing. I work with alot of Police Depoartments. The Federal Government has a national database that stores all you info. It is tied together with the courts and DMV. It is called Collect, NCIC.

    It has all of your DMV info i.e your car, reg, lic. and all of your court info.
    This has been going on for years. Now insted of typing you DL into the wireless computer hooked up to this Database they will just swipe it.
    It's nothing new....
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  30. #30
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    Originally posted by CrazyTech
    Unanimously is slightly more than a small majority last time I checked. Don't blame it all on the Republicans - they aren't the only ones.

    If you can name one Democrat that suppored this bill and have *proof*.. I will 100% retreact my statement about.. "Don't blame the Republicans"....

    I don't like the National ID Cards, but there is nothing I can do about it. Sit back and live my life the best I can.. or have someone else tell me how to live it
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  31. #31
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    Originally posted by RealtorHost
    If you can name one Democrat that suppored this bill and have *proof*.. I will 100% retreact my statement about.. "Don't blame the Republicans"....

    I don't like the National ID Cards, but there is nothing I can do about it. Sit back and live my life the best I can.. or have someone else tell me how to live it
    Uh, unless the democrats didn't show up for that meeting in the senate... how about all o them? 'Unanimous' is pretty all inclusive
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  32. #32
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    Originally posted by RealtorHost
    If you can name one Democrat that suppored this bill and have *proof*.. I will 100% retreact my statement about.. "Don't blame the Republicans"....

    I don't like the National ID Cards, but there is nothing I can do about it. Sit back and live my life the best I can.. or have someone else tell me how to live it
    I'm a Democrat and I supported this bill and if I was there, I would have voted for it as well.

    You have to stop blaming one party for everything. You can't just say it's the Republicans fault, you can say it's Bush's fault, but not the Republicans and vise versa.

    And besides, it was unanimous - every one, democratic, republican, they all voted for it. So you must now retract your statement.
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  33. #33
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    "50 different state ID cards all linked together is pretty much the same as one national ID card, just as all those new quarters are still worth 25 cents each, no matter which state is on the back."
    .
    .
    .
    "For others, it's that the federal government can punch a few keys and trace your steps. But they can do that already."


    Too many scare-mongers in this forum. Or, is it more like find fault with anything that Bush or the republicans can bring about while they have control of the government. It doesn't matter what it is, just find fault with it and scare people about it.

    By the way, the National Id program was just one recommendation from the 9/11 Commission which the democrats loved so much and which they were praising wildly back in 2003. "Oh, Bush and congress must enact laws to bring about the recommendations" was the democrat party leaders passioned suggestions back then.

    But, heck, not now! Now, the democrats must oppose anything and everything that any republican wants to undertake.

    If the democrats were in power, the same people complainng now would be the same ones to praise the National Id program if they were the ones passing it. A program is only good if the party in power gets credit for passing a program or law. Hippocrites!!!!!
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  34. #34
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    Originally posted by adorno

    "50 different state ID cards all linked together is pretty much the same as one national ID card, just as all those new quarters are still worth 25 cents each, no matter which state is on the back."
    .
    .
    .
    "For others, it's that the federal government can punch a few keys and trace your steps. But they can do that already."


    Too many scare-mongers in this forum. Or, is it more like find fault with anything that Bush or the republicans can bring about while they have control of the government. It doesn't matter what it is, just find fault with it and scare people about it.

    By the way, the National Id program was just one recommendation from the 9/11 Commission which the democrats loved so much and which they were praising wildly back in 2003. "Oh, Bush and congress must enact laws to bring about the recommendations" was the democrat party leaders passioned suggestions back then.

    But, heck, not now! Now, the democrats must oppose anything and everything that any republican wants to undertake.

    If the democrats were in power, the same people complainng now would be the same ones to praise the National Id program if they were the ones passing it. A program is only good if the party in power gets credit for passing a program or law. Hippocrites!!!!!
    I think Bush was smart by adding the National ID to the Military Bill.

    I look forward on getting my card!
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  35. #35
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    It's really quite comical how the traditional platforms of each respective major political party has reversed over the past couple decades. Instead of advocating for states' rights, Republicans now support nationalized ID card programs, this stupid and paranoia- (or LSD-) induced Department of Homeland Security (especially that stupid and pointless little color coded "advisory" system that hasn't gone down to blue or green since its 2002 inception), and this nationalization and sensationalism of these rather trivial domestic issues. While, by no means, do I usually agree with Democrats (for that matter, nor do I with Republicans), in general, they support just the opposite.
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  36. #36
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    Originally posted by adorno
    By the way, the National Id program was just one recommendation from the 9/11 Commission which the democrats loved so much and which they were praising wildly back in 2003. "Oh, Bush and congress must enact laws to bring about the recommendations" was the democrat party leaders passioned suggestions back then.

    But, heck, not now! Now, the democrats must oppose anything and everything that any republican wants to undertake.

    If the democrats were in power, the same people complainng now would be the same ones to praise the National Id program if they were the ones passing it. A program is only good if the party in power gets credit for passing a program or law. Hippocrites!!!!!

    The 'democrats' voted for it so I'm not sure where you're going with that one. I like the idea (already have one really - my green card), and I'm considered a democrat (quite a liberal one from what I'm told).

    I think you're being a little bit silly.
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  37. #37
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    Originally posted by akashik

    The 'democrats' voted for it so I'm not sure where you're going with that one. I like the idea (already have one really - my green card), and I'm considered a democrat (quite a liberal one from what I'm told).

    I think you're being a little bit silly.
    The point is not very hard to understand.

    No doubt many democrats voted for it. But, the loudest and harshest voices in opposition to the national id are from democrats. Even if it's just a few of them.

    Get it?
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  38. #38
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    Originally posted by adorno
    The point is not very hard to understand.

    No doubt many democrats voted for it. But, the loudest and harshest voices in opposition to the national id are from democrats. Even if it's just a few of them.

    Get it?
    Get what? What is there to get? What exactly is your point? That Dems were the most vocal opposition to the bill? Okay... and? The Repubs are the most vocal opposition to many of the Dems' bills. I don't understand how this is at all relevant, informative, or purposeful in any way whatsoever to the discussion.
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  39. #39
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    Originally posted by akashik

    The 'democrats' voted for it ...
    I think you're being a little bit silly.
    By the way, akashik, here's party breakdown on the congressional vote on the national id card:

    Republican--- 219 for, 8 against, 4 non-votes
    Democrats--- 42 for, 152 against, 7 non-votes


    I wouldn't classify that as heavy democratic support. If it had been for the democrats, the bill wouldn't have passed.
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    Originally posted by adorno
    If it had been for the democrats, the bill wouldn't have passed.
    Huh? Your usage of that expression doesn't make any sense in this context. What would make sense is:

    "If it hadn't been for the Republicans, the bill wouldn't have passed."

    Just thought I'd correct your mechanical error; perhaps you can take this new knowledge and utilize it next time you want to blast the Democrats to Planet Moron.
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