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  1. #1

    nac/15minuteservers - very bad experience.

    Hi,

    I host my business's website with 15minuteservers. I've been their customer for 8 months now and never had any problems whatsoever with payments.

    Last month, they changed their billing policy and they now do not accept Paypal. Problem is, 4 days ago I lost my Credit Card and it takes up to 7 working days to get the new one mailed to me. The only other card I have is a UK Debit Card so I cannot use this one.

    So I thought, ok I'll pay them a couple of days later this time. *One* day after the due date of the invoice, what do they go ahead and do? They stop my website. At this point let me point out that my company is an online service provider, so it makes all its money on the web.

    Now, to make a long story short, with the UK/US time difference and the fact that their billing department is only open 9-5 Eastern Time the site is now down for more than 21 hours.

    I called them an hour and a half ago (as soon as they opened) and I told them that I can either pay them today via Paypal, or they will have to wait for a couple of days until I get my Credit Card, and after much deliberation the decided to start my website until this Friday noon (firmly telling me that they will stop the site if they don't receive payment until then).

    Now despite they agreed to start the site again more than 90 minutes ago, the site is still down and the repsonse I got to my email is that NAC billing is trying to contact the 15 minute server administrator to unlock the server, but they haven't managed to do so.

    Trully a nightmare scenario!

    The funny thing is that these couple of days I was trying to decide on the new, beefed-up, server I was going to get to handle the increased amounts of traffic and I was considering staying with 15minuteservers or moving to Liquid Web.

    Well, they just made my mind up for me, and I just signed for a server with Liquid Web. Considering the cost of the new server is $320 (dual 2.66 xeon, 4Gig RAM, 73Gig SCSI HD, 120Gig Backup IDE HD) per month, and that I intend to stay with the same provider for at least a year, they just lost at least $4,000 worth of business.

    Dimitri
    Last edited by dimitri502; 05-11-2005 at 10:25 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Parsippany
    Posts
    181
    I'm sorry that you feel you were treated unfairly. When we were informed by Paypal that we they were no longer going to allow us to accept Paypal payments we sent out several e-mails clarifying the policy change.

    We also bill and send an invoice 7 days in advance of each customers billing cycle for just this reason. Customers have 7 days to resolve any billing issues prior to their new cycles. As was illustrated above, our billing staff will extend a billing grace period if they are contacted in advance.
    Matthew Winship
    15 Minute Servers / Net Access Corp.
    www.15minuteservers.com
    www.nac.net

  3. #3
    If you can't pay a bill on time you need to communicate with your provider. If you would have contacted them prior to the deadline you could have avoided your server being turned off.

    Good communication is the key. They can't read your mind.
    Matt Wade
    Christian Web Hosting
    http://codewalkers.com/ - Home of the PHP Coding Contest
    http://phphosts.codewalkers.com/ - Directory of PHP Web Hosts. Free Listing.

  4. #4
    Hi Matthew,

    Fair enough, it was a bit of my bad as well, I should have communicated with you earlier, but I don't think stopping a customer's website 1-day after the due date is a good idea. Particularly if you haven't warned them you intend to do so.

    I believe, being a customer for quite a few months now I deserved at least a warning before you shut my business down.

    The way I found out is that I contacted your support because the website was down and they re-forwarded me the invoice (didn't even bother to make a comment, they just re-forwarded the email). Of course at that time your billing department was closed and the rest is history.

    Also, I don't believe taking 2 hours (130 minutes to be precise) for your billing dept to contact your administrator (who for some reason was at home) to get the server up is anywhere near acceptable!

    May I ask why Paypal does not allow you to use their system anymore?

    Thanks,

    Dimitri

  5. #5
    Why did 15minservers stop taking paypal?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    246
    Originally posted by fstrelzoff
    Why did 15minservers stop taking paypal?
    To many fraudlent orders...The main reason we never offered our clients paypal and never will..

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    My Old Kentucky Home....
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    1,845
    Fair enough, it was a bit of my bad as well
    Perhaps NAC should have notified you of pending suspension....

    Perhaps they could have allowed more time before said suspension....

    But your comment, "Fair enough, it was a bit of my bad as well" is almost laughable. Boiling it down, this is not NAC's fault, it's your own doing. Had you paid the bill on time or contacted them about payment issues you were encountering there would likely have been no suspension at all.

    We use NAC as well, and had been paying by PayPal. When payment options changed, we had questions, and they had answers.

    It was poor planning on your part that got your server suspended, and bad form on your part to try and blame NAC for your error.
    It's time to kick back, pop in a From Autumn to Ashes CD, and relax.....

  8. #8
    CactusCounty, I think you ought to read the post again. I didn't say it's NAC's fault they stopped the server at any point, I just stated the facts.

    Now, if you think it's acceptable customer service stopping your server without warning you and then taking 2 hours to get it back up after you agree a settlement with them, please go ahead and stay with NAC (and good luck next time something goes wrong - oh, and if this is you definition of good customer service, good luck to your customers as well).

    I paid the invoice as soon as I had my new Credit Card (the day after all this drama) and I cancelled my account at the same instant.

    As I said, I'm moving to Liquid Web and they've lost $4,000+ worth of business.

    Dimitri
    Last edited by dimitri502; 05-14-2005 at 06:16 AM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2003
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    My Old Kentucky Home....
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    1,845
    Originally posted by dimitri502
    CactusCounty, I think you ought to read the post again. I didn't say it's NAC's fault they stopped the server at any point, I just stated the facts.

    Now, if you think it's acceptable customer service stopping your server without warning you and then taking 2 hours to get it back up after you agree a settlement with them, please go ahead and stay with NAC (and good luck next time something goes wrong - oh, and if this is you definition of good customer service, good luck to your customers as well).

    I paid the invoice as soon as I had my new Credit Card (the day after all this drama) and I cancelled my account at the same instant.

    As I said, I'm moving to Liquid Web and they've lost $4,000+ worth of business.

    Dimitri
    I read the post again and I'm still of the same opinion....It seems to me that you alone should shoulder the blame and not try and shirk it off on someone else.

    Note that I added the lines about "perhaps" they should have notified you or given you more time, but the truth is, they didn't have to. On the other hand, you had a binding agreement with them to pay by a certain date, and you were sent notice of that seven days in advance. You failed in your commitment.

    When you knew, prior to the due date, that you wouldn't have been able to make the payment you should have contacted them then to work something out rather than taking the nonchalant attitude that they simply wouldn't care if you were late.

    Would we disconnect a customer the day after the bill is due? No, but that doesn't mean that NAC doesn't have the right to disconnect us if we don't pay on time. Especially if we never bother to contact them.

    Realistically, I don't think two hours is so very unreasonable for being reconnected. It's not like the sales rep had his finger on the magic reconnect button, just waiting for you to make payment arrangements.....

    And thank you for the well wishes for our customers....They are quite happy by the way. For one thing, we go to great lengths to ensure that our servers stay online. Heck, we even pay our bills on time, believe it or not.

    It's time to kick back, pop in a From Autumn to Ashes CD, and relax.....

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    1,307
    We have a bundle of servers with NAC. Their Staff is allways responsive and professionnal.

    When I was notified that they changed their policy and longer accept Paypal, I contacted them immediatly asking for some delay to move the money I have on my paypal account to my bank account, then to my credit card. The process took about 10 days and no server was disconnected.
    Enterprise Consultant
    CCNP Enterprise - CCNP Security
    .:. Travels From West to East .:.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    314
    when they just changed to policy they should be more gracefull.
    imagine you would have been away on vacations for 2 weeks and thinking that payments gets done automatic over paypal as allways?
    not aware of the policy change a few days earlier?
    then u come back from vacations and server is pulled becaused the suddenly changed policy with short noticy.
    in my oppinion thats bad customer service

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Prince Edward Island
    Posts
    2,289
    Maintaining servers is a 24x7 business, there is no such thing as a vacation. Same goes with your local 911 system (assuming you have one). If your going on vacation a good provider will have someone else on hand to worry about these such events.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
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    Switzerland
    Posts
    1,307
    Alexmue / There is no 15 days vacation on webhosting business. Imagine just a server crash during 15 days !
    Enterprise Consultant
    CCNP Enterprise - CCNP Security
    .:. Travels From West to East .:.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    My Old Kentucky Home....
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    1,845
    Originally posted by alexmue
    when they just changed to policy they should be more gracefull.
    They were very communicative about the change. It should have come as no surprise to anyone.
    Originally posted by alexmue
    imagine you would have been away on vacations for 2 weeks and thinking that payments gets done automatic over paypal as allways?
    Payments were never made automatically. They sent you an invoice, you logged in to PayPal and you made the payment.
    Originally posted by alexmue
    not aware of the policy change a few days earlier?
    Ah, but he was aware. Quite aware. He simply chose to ignore it.
    Originally posted by alexmue
    in my oppinion thats bad customer service
    NAC has proven to have some of the best customer support that we have found. They do seem to be a bit quick on the disconnect, but if you keep your payments current or maintain communication with them there should be no problems.
    It's time to kick back, pop in a From Autumn to Ashes CD, and relax.....

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    NY USA
    Posts
    839
    If I could, I would change the topic of this thread to "I didn't pay my bill and now I am angry with my ISP"
    EZZI.net - A Service of Access Integrated Technologies Inc
    Running data centers, nationwide data network, and world-wide VoIP network.
    http://www.EZZI.net sales@ezzi.net

  16. #16
    You keep missing the point.

    Whether I knew about the change of policy or not, and whether I was too busy to contact them or I simply ignored their email is irrelevant.

    What's relevant is that they disconnected my service *1* day after the due date without warning me beforehand.

    Did they have the legal right to do so? Absolutely! Are the going to get another buck out of my pocket? Absolutely not!

    What’s the morale of the story? If you are trigger happy with the disconnect button you lose business …get it?

    Dimitri

    P.S.: And no, 2 hours to reconnect the server is unacceptable for a large company. That's why I went with a large company in the 1st place.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    PA, USA
    Posts
    5,143
    As I said, I'm moving to Liquid Web and they've lost $4,000+ worth of business.
    That's a lot ... I assume, it's $4000+/month right? NAC must be missing you!

    If I could, I would change the topic of this thread to "I didn't pay my bill and now I am angry with my ISP"
    Yes you could and I think that's the best summary on what's going on.

    I want my five minutes back for even reading this thread. Can somebody delete/close this thread?
    Fluid Hosting, LLC - Enterprise Cloud Infrastructure: Cloud Shared and Reseller, Cloud VPS, and Cloud Hybrid Server

  18. A DS provider should NEVER just shut off service without making at least several attempts to contact the customer.

    Yes, they have the right to, but uptime is simply too important to let a lost bill, sickness or some other customer problem result in a disconnection.

    Yes, a customer is responsible for making sure their bills get paid on time, but if they inadvertently screw up they're better ways to deal with it than termination of service (e.g. penalties).

    We're all in this together. If a system gets taken down, then damages the customer's reputation, often far far worse than the delay of a bill payment by a few days.

    DS providers need to work with their customers to help make them successful, and understand that sometimes mistakes are made, and should be handled appropriately.
    signup@capacityservers.com
    http://www.capacityservers.com

    Fast network, exellent servers, great support.

  19. #19
    Finally! Someone who understands that it should be all about the customer!

    And no, I'm not saying this just because I'm on this side of the argument.

    I run a business as well and it's my core belief that you cannot run a successful organisation unless you take care of the customer (and that includes when things do not go smoothly according to plan).

    Dimitri

  20. #20
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Kirkland, WA
    Posts
    4,448
    If your business was that important, you'd think you'd pay your bills on time

    (Or at least contact your providers and give them adequate notice that you won't be able to pay your bills.)
    Nick Nelson
    Sr. Director & GM, VAS
    Demand Media
    425.298.2282 nn@demandmedia.com

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    NY USA
    Posts
    839
    At EZZI, your bill is due on the first, if you dont pay by the 10th you get your server shut down, don't answer by the 15th or so it gets returned to inventory and you lose your data.

    And without fail, 90% of the people who get disconnected scream at us as if it were a network outage or some negligence on our part. I've even seen people demand SLA credit to their account.

    "But I was on vacation!"
    Plan for your vacation, pay ahead of time

    "But I didn't know X"
    You run a hosting company and don't check your email?

    "You guys suck!"
    You are entitled to your opinion, but we've been paying the bills for 12+ years so we must be doing something right.

    Of course if a good customer asks us for some time to pay BEFORE the deadline, we will work something out for them (as many WHT users could testify), but if I had to pull your plug to get your attention don't ask me for sympathy.
    EZZI.net - A Service of Access Integrated Technologies Inc
    Running data centers, nationwide data network, and world-wide VoIP network.
    http://www.EZZI.net sales@ezzi.net

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Prince Edward Island
    Posts
    2,289
    Someone didn't pay their bill and is pissed at the supplier for cutting them off.....


    Does anyone else see something wrong here?


    but if I had to pull your plug to get your attention don't ask me for sympathy.
    Well said.

    I should also add that we also give the customer more time to get their bill paid however it is not a requirement by any company.

    Bottom line is: You got a due date, if its past due, your putting your own neck on the line.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    My Old Kentucky Home....
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    1,845
    A DS provider should NEVER just shut off service without making at least several attempts to contact the customer.
    Yeah, well.....In a perfect world, maybe. But then again, in a perfect world everyone would pay their bills on time.

    Different organizations have different terms, and obviously NAC's terms are a bit stricter than most, but that's apparently the way they want to conduct business. Perhaps they're hoping to do business on a more professional level where customers care enough about their own businesses to make timely payments or communications.
    It's time to kick back, pop in a From Autumn to Ashes CD, and relax.....

  24. #24
    Ok...initially I was on the side of 'you didn't pay you deserve to be shut off'. While that generally still holds true, I now believe that their is some fault on the side of 15minuteservers.

    I went and checked their TOS to see what they had to say, and here it is:

    Credit cards that are declined for any reason are subject to a $1.00 declination fee. Service will be interrupted on accounts that reach 10 days past due. Service interrupted for nonpayment is subject to a $200 reconnect charge. Accounts not paid by due date are subject to a $7.95 late fee. Accounts that are not collectable by NAC may be turned over to an outside collection agency for collection. If your account is turned over for collection, you agree to pay NAC a "Processing and Collection" Fee of not less than $50 nor more than $150. If you desire to cancel your account, please follow the proper procedure to do this as outlined under item 7.
    It seems that in their own Terms of Service show they will not disconnect until it is 10 days past due. What it seems is that dimitri502 should have just been charged his late fee and then given those 10 extra days. In my opinion, 15minute servers should do business as their Terms Of Service state. They owe dimitri502 an apology and credit for his downtime.

    Now, what dimitri502 needs to be careful of is that he signed into a one year contract. According to the terms of service all contracts default to one year, so he is responsible for the next 4 months of service as well. If 15minuteservers wants to push that issue they could.
    Matt Wade
    Christian Web Hosting
    http://codewalkers.com/ - Home of the PHP Coding Contest
    http://phphosts.codewalkers.com/ - Directory of PHP Web Hosts. Free Listing.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    833
    Originally posted by mattwade
    Ok...initially I was on the side of 'you didn't pay you deserve to be shut off'. While that generally still holds true, I now believe that their is some fault on the side of 15minuteservers.

    I went and checked their TOS to see what they had to say, and here it is:



    It seems that in their own Terms of Service show they will not disconnect until it is 10 days past due. What it seems is that dimitri502 should have just been charged his late fee and then given those 10 extra days. In my opinion, 15minute servers should do business as their Terms Of Service state. They owe dimitri502 an apology and credit for his downtime.

    Now, what dimitri502 needs to be careful of is that he signed into a one year contract. According to the terms of service all contracts default to one year, so he is responsible for the next 4 months of service as well. If 15minuteservers wants to push that issue they could.
    Now.................who is at fault?

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