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05-07-2005, 11:02 PM #26Web Hosting Master
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1938.. "Let me see your papers.." "Hail Hitler!"
2008.. "Let me see your papers.." "Hail Bush!"
It is something to think about..
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05-07-2005, 11:23 PM #27Web Hosting Evangelist
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In my best German accent:
Papahz Pleese?
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05-08-2005, 02:50 AM #28Web Hosting Master
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The way I understood it, most states would simply have to modify their existing a very little, or even none at all to be approved as a form of national ID.
Doesn't really sound like the end of the world unless you can be arrested or charged with something for leaving the house without it. When you can be stopped and asked for your ID and you say "I left it at home" and you get a ticket or jailed, THEN the problem starts. My wife usually drives when we go places so it's not uncommon for me to stuff some $20's in my pocket and leave my wallet at home.Gary Harris - the artist formerly known as Dixiesys
resident grumpy redneck
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05-08-2005, 03:01 AM #29Web Hosting Evangelist
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And what happens when this "National ID Card" becomes your debit card as well? Paper money is no longer needed and now big brother can control where you live, where you travel simply by changing where your card will be accepted. Live in California? Big brother wants you to stay there? Done. Now your National ID/Debit/Drivers License/Lifeline to society card works only in California. Welcome to the machine folks...
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05-08-2005, 04:18 AM #30Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by case
What a waste of money....
I've been knowing about the Real ID Act for some time now. It just provides a false sense of security. While it *may* prevent possible terrorists from boarding airplanes, it doesn't really do much to protect us from other types of attacks. Also it gives the federal governement more details about our driving records, speeding tickets, etc. For example: If you had a bad driving record in New York, they will know about it here in Los Angeles.
Why did these ID requirements get attached to an "emergency" military spending bill?
Because it's difficult for politicians to vote against money that will go to the troops in Iraq and tsunami relief. The funds cover ammunition, weapons, tracked combat vehicles, aircraft, troop housing, death benefits, and so on.Last edited by E_man3; 05-08-2005 at 04:25 AM.
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05-08-2005, 04:29 AM #31Web Hosting Master
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When you can be stopped and asked for your ID and you say "I left it at home" and you get a ticket or jailed, THEN the problem starts.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Jun21.htmlKerry Jones
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05-08-2005, 12:58 PM #32Junior Guru Wannabe
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When you can be stopped and asked for your ID and you say "I left it at home" and you get a ticket or jailed, THEN the problem starts.
and if you can get away with not having it with you, well I'm sure an actual illegal immigrant can do the same.
This National ID will NOT protect us in anyway from terrorism. Don't you know that 9/11 attackers had expired VISAs and they still got in?
Hate to say this, but those of you who think this bill will actually protect us, have been influenced just the way Bush administration wants you to. You are scared of everything in the name of terrorism. Let's get more guns, Let's have a National ID card, Let's buy "nuclear safe houses", How about an extra pair of superman shoes in case you are in a tall building and an airplan crashes into you (im sure that happens every day).
What will it take for you to understand that this is a game. Check the "Homeland Security Advisory System"
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0020312-5.html
Since the time it was INVENTED, it never comes down to even BLUE! Today it is elevated, well thats not too bad, is it? at least its not SEVERE. Now read the text below "Significant Risk of Terrorist Attack" under elevated?!
Well, I would say let's get couple more shut guns in case we see a "different" looking individual, ask them for their National ID, and if they don't have it, shoot them in the head, call it War On Terror!Last edited by INTEL; 05-08-2005 at 01:11 PM.
There are 3 kinds of people. People who can count and people who can't.
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05-08-2005, 01:05 PM #33Web Hosting Master
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Ooh go out without it, speak German to the officers about not understanding English and get a free ride to Germany to visit my relatives? hmm that idea has potential hahaha
Gary Harris - the artist formerly known as Dixiesys
resident grumpy redneck
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05-08-2005, 03:16 PM #34Web Hosting Master
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Introducing the new BigBrotherCard "It's only where your government wants you to be." - unixorn
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05-08-2005, 03:44 PM #35Newbie
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well...im moving to europe then
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05-08-2005, 04:03 PM #36M*T
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Originally posted by MaxD
well...im moving to europe then
Move to Europe, then try to get away with having no papers. Try to get away with refusing to tell the police your name etc.....Don't you walk thru my words
You got to show some respect
Don't you walk thru my words
'Cause you ain't heard me out yet
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05-08-2005, 06:10 PM #37WHT Addict
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National IDs can help minors who don't have a driver's license as a proof of ID and that's about all the good i see in it.
National IDs seems just like driver's license but cost about 81billion dollars more. I bet we also would have to PAY to get one as well.
In New Jersey, we finally got the 'improved' driver's license that has more bells and whistles than the old one. What is the difference between THAT and the national IDs?!
Will stores have these 'machines' to help identify the individuals for proof of ID or will they just glance at ur ID and say 'yep, u look like the picture'? That would be forcing many stores to BUY the machine. I doubt the government will start handing it out for free.
In my opinion, it's like the government is doing a double attack on our money. Spending tax money and also taking money out of our pockets. Government sounds like a company almost.remy
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05-08-2005, 06:36 PM #38Predatory Poster
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You were close it's actually a few corporations pulling the strings. Seeing as they donate to each political party it greatly benefits the canidates to serve their corporate masters lest they lose their funding.
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05-08-2005, 06:44 PM #39Web Hosting Master
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sorry, but if a police officers approaches me I shouldn't have to show him a damn thing. I don't always carry my ID with me, so if one stops me. its going to be "oh well, its good for you to take you time to arrest law abiding citizens and waste taxpayer money rather than arresting actual criminals".
Kerry Jones
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05-08-2005, 07:44 PM #40Taking a break from hosting
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Originally posted by ANGELremy
In New Jersey, we finally got the 'improved' driver's license that has more bells and whistles than the old one. What is the difference between THAT and the national IDs?!
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05-08-2005, 10:20 PM #41Web Hosting Master
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First why are we spending more money when we do not have it? Why we spending more money on something we do not need when we could be spending it on something more handy? I keep seeing the government spending money on things we do not need or in something that will go on for years.
Also yes I feel if I am walking down a road, and a cop pulls over and asks for my name I should have the right to say no. I am not doing anything wrong, and I am not doing anything suspicious so they have no right to ask for my name.
As well I know of many people in the news who have got voilated by the government. What about the people who get jailed because they think they are someone else, but are not even related to them in any shape way or form? That is just one of them I remembered. I bet I could dig up many more stories of the government taking civil libertys away from people.
Also what about the court of a fair and speedy trial? I know of people are still in jail and still have not seen a court.Last edited by Torith; 05-08-2005 at 10:25 PM.
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05-08-2005, 10:43 PM #42Web Hosting Master
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People ask me to name anyone who's civil rights have been violated. Let's do a turn around on that. Can you name anyone in China who's civil rights have been violated? If you cant, then dont expect me to be able to name names either..
We all know it happens in China, but I guess if you cant name anyone it's happened to, then it doesnt really happen. By the "COPS" comment, you would have to say that those it has happened to were probably ALL of suspect character
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05-09-2005, 12:13 AM #43Junior Guru Wannabe
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I trust the government about as far as I can throw it, and I'm certainly not for any measure that could potentially be used to limit my freedom. As such, I hate the idea of a national ID card.
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05-09-2005, 08:02 AM #44ex-Aussie
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Funny how the people who seem fine with the ID card are people who already have one (in one form or another), while the people jumping up and down like children, decrying the premise of a national ID card, have never even been close to one.
Funnier still, is that those same 'chicken little's' haven't asked, listened to, or even been interested in those who already own a national ID card (military, immigration or otherwise).
Do you guys ever get tired of just talking and commenting, and never listening to those that might have a bit of experience?
It's really not an issue, trust me.Former Webhost... now, just a guy.
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05-09-2005, 08:38 AM #45Disabled
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Originally posted by akashik
Do you guys ever get tired of just talking and commenting, and never listening to those that might have a bit of experience?
No they don't Greg.
Some people just prefer to live in ignorance and paranoia.
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05-09-2005, 08:50 AM #46Web Hosting Master
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I just find it comical that the "slippery slope" argument ONLY works with respect to violation of civil rights. Nobody can define how, specifically, we will become like Nazi Germany or China they just appeal to them as if all uses of ID cards are equivalent. It is not an actual abuse anyone can point to yet, rather, it is the slippery slope that will lead us into a police state in spite of significant cultural and governmental differences that would militate against that trend. Comparisons with China and Nazi Germany only display ignorance of real differences.
Restricting access to pornography in libraries is ONLY censorship and there is absolutely NO slippery slope with respect to children and early sexual imagery.
People against lotteries and casinos are just busy bodies who want to keep others from having fun. There is absolutely NO slippery slope that causes bankruptcy and a host of social costs for the elderly and the poor.
No sir. The only slippery slopes that exist are the ones that can only be appealed to as hypotheticals. We cannot possibly gain any benefit from making it more difficult for states to issue driver's licenses with flimsy documentation. No benefit there at all. The only thing we must concern ourselves with is the SLIPPERY SLOPE. Before you know it, we'll all be eating human flesh!Last edited by DevilDog; 05-09-2005 at 08:55 AM.
Rich
Husband, Father, Retired Marine, Geek
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05-09-2005, 09:00 AM #47Riiiiiiiiiiiiight...
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Originally posted by akashik
Funny how the people who seem fine with the ID card are people who already have one (in one form or another), while the people jumping up and down like children, decrying the premise of a national ID card, have never even been close to one.
Funnier still, is that those same 'chicken little's' haven't asked, listened to, or even been interested in those who already own a national ID card (military, immigration or otherwise).
Do you guys ever get tired of just talking and commenting, and never listening to those that might have a bit of experience?
It's really not an issue, trust me.
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05-09-2005, 09:08 AM #48Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by case
Yeah, these cards dont exist as of yet so I dont see how you or anyone "own" one.
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05-09-2005, 09:19 AM #49Web Hosting Master
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I have a Military Identification Card and a Veterans Affairs ID Card, that being said, I still don't want a National ID Card.. I think it is a waste of money.. Also, the Military and Veterans Affairs IDs don't give the information to the government that the National ID Card will. For example, it doesn't give them your driving record, it doesn't let them track your spending or what stores you go to, therefor they are not the same as a National ID and I would suggest that you look at them as two seperate beasts..
James Lumby
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05-09-2005, 09:40 AM #50Web Host :)
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The problem is going to be when this is also your credit card, fishing/hunting license (if you have one), Pasport, Drivers License, Health Insurance Card, PRescription Card and other things such as your blood type, sexual preference, family background such as alcohol - drugs etc, criminal record (if any), health record / status (overweight, high blood pressure, diabetes etc) and best of all will probably be somehow be able to be monitored via some type of chip embedded into the card itself.
A good site for some of you that may be against this to look into is http://aclu.org/
I honestly do believe though that regardless of how much people bitch and whine about this it is going to happen anyway so we must just deal with it because it will be here.
I believe that the goverment has wanted something like this for a long time and with 9-11 a few years ago they see it as an opportunity to make it happen now.
Personally I would prefer they spend this money locking down our borders and airports instead of wasting it on something like this, I dont know about you but my license 'format' has changed 3 times in the past 11 years and I am wondering how this is still just not good enough and how they expect this 'national id' card to solve everyons problems?