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  1. #1

    All of you ppl need to write to your senators

    Congress is gearing up to pass a law for a national id: Link

    It will pass because they tacked on emergency spending for Iraq

    WRITE YOUR SENATOR <-- Link
    ^_^

  2. #2
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    I write to my senator all the time... in fact I have a collection of letters from Kay Baily Hutchison. My recent one addressed the growing concern of domestic terrorism and funding of these groups which also mentioned PETA and how they admitted to donating a documented $1500 to the certified terrorism organization. I've also written about stripping citizen's privacy stripping for .us domains, domain squatting, identity theft, gay rights, censorship, and unfair laws in Texas. I guess i'll be writing another one on the issue of a national ID card.
    Last edited by Kerry Jones; 05-07-2005 at 06:45 PM.
    Kerry Jones

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    Neh, I already have one. It's called a 'Permanent Resident Card' (Green Card). By law I have to carry it at all times, and has a great deal of the information the National ID card is supposed to contain (short of the SSN).

    It doesn't change anything in my day to day life. I don't see what the big issue is myself.
    Former Webhost... now, just a guy.

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    I support the National ID. It would help cut on on the number of illegal immigrants and catch more convicts. How you ask? Simple. Make the National ID the requirement for any proof of ID. Therefore, everyone who is legal in the U.S. and has no warrants shall have the ability to obtain this ID. Then, when you are required to provide proof of ID, you will need to present the National ID Card. Places such as: the airport, when you get pulled over, entering any federal building, etc.

    I support it completely.

  5. #5
    It is an ID card. I have nothing to hide. I do not break the law, do drugs, sell drugs, hide from the tax man, run an illegal busines, smuggle arms, etc... etc.... It will not hurt me or my family in any way.
    Don't you walk thru my words
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  6. #6
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    Originally posted by akashik
    Neh, I already have one. It's called a 'Permanent Resident Card' (Green Card). By law I have to carry it at all times, and has a great deal of the information the National ID card is supposed to contain (short of the SSN).

    It doesn't change anything in my day to day life. I don't see what the big issue is myself.
    You should be different, paint your green card yellow!

  7. #7
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    I support the National ID. It would help cut on on the number of illegal immigrants and catch more convicts. How you ask? Simple. Make the National ID the requirement for any proof of ID. Therefore, everyone who is legal in the U.S. and has no warrants shall have the ability to obtain this ID. Then, when you are required to provide proof of ID, you will need to present the National ID Card. Places such as: the airport, when you get pulled over, entering any federal building, etc.

    I support it completely.
    moot point really. I don't see how its going to stop criminals as i'm sure many have been able to obtain a Texas ID. I don't think it helps with criminal background checks, identity theft, etc. It just seems like a waste of money.
    Kerry Jones

  8. #8
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    Originally posted by Kerry Jones
    moot point really. I don't see how its going to stop criminals as i'm sure many have been able to obtain a Texas ID. I don't think it helps with criminal background checks, identity theft, etc. It just seems like a waste of money.
    Each to his own. You vote No, and I'll Vote Yes.

  9. #9
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    What's wrong with the national id card? It's created to protect us.
    www.Yekaroo.com - Your Chinese Radio Online!

  10. #10
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    Originally posted by Rob83
    You should be different, paint your green card yellow!
    Actually 'Green Cards' aren't even green anymore - they're white.
    Former Webhost... now, just a guy.

  11. #11
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    What about Illegal Immigrants?

    Peace,
    Testing 1.. Testing 1..2.. Testing 1..2..3...

  12. #12
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    Originally posted by Diaga
    What's wrong with the national id card? It's created to protect us.
    Unfortunately, the mentality demonstrated by both you and TalkMilitary, and others so far, is just the one that is fit for acceptance of a future bill on expanding the "national ID" card to a more all-encompassing card that can assist the government in taking away more and more of our civil liberties and constitutional rights. However, that's no biggie according to you guys. After all, you have nothing to hide.

  13. #13
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    Re: All of you ppl need to write to your senators

    Originally posted by Francisco
    Congress is gearing up to pass a law for a national id: Link

    It will pass because they tacked on emergency spending for Iraq

    WRITE YOUR SENATOR <-- Link
    If it's going to pass then I'd just write to tell them how much I support the idea.
    Rich
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  14. #14
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    Originally posted by SniperDevil
    Unfortunately, the mentality demonstrated by both you and TalkMilitary, and others so far, is just the one that is fit for acceptance of a future bill on expanding the "national ID" card to a more all-encompassing card that can assist the government in taking away more and more of our civil liberties and constitutional rights. However, that's no biggie according to you guys. After all, you have nothing to hide.
    I see everyone talking about how they are taking away our civil liberties and constitutional rights. I ask you, when was the last time your "civil liberties" and "constituional rights" were violated? Me? Never. I guess I'm just one of the very few?

    I already have a National ID, it's called a U.S. Government Issued Military Identification Card. The National ID will be identical, it will store the same information.

    You guys are so quick to scream that your "civil liberties and constitutional rights" are being removed. I have yet to have any of my rights violated and yours.

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    If you were worried about civil liberties - add the patriot act on your list
    www.Yekaroo.com - Your Chinese Radio Online!

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    Originally posted by Diaga
    If you were worried about civil liberties - add the patriot act on your list
    Apparently you haven't seen my previous posts on these matters, because if you have, you will notice how firmly against the Patriot Act indeed I am.

  17. #17
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    I really like the Patriot Act too. Fully support it.
    Rich
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    What a waste of money....

  19. #19
    Originally posted by Rob83
    I see everyone talking about how they are taking away our civil liberties and constitutional rights. I ask you, when was the last time your "civil liberties" and "constituional rights" were violated? Me? Never. I guess I'm just one of the very few?

    I already have a National ID, it's called a U.S. Government Issued Military Identification Card. The National ID will be identical, it will store the same information.

    You guys are so quick to scream that your "civil liberties and constitutional rights" are being removed. I have yet to have any of my rights violated and yours.
    Indeed. When I had my U.S. Government Issued Military Identification Card, I never had my civil rights violated. I also have a U.S. Govt Department of Veterans Affairs ID card. Still yet to have my civil rights violated. I have carried a US Govt issued ID card of one sort or another since 1984.... and guess what? Nobody has violated a single right of mine.

    I guess I just do not get the paranoia that some seem to see in an ID card.
    Don't you walk thru my words
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  20. #20
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    Originally posted by Rob83
    I see everyone talking about how they are taking away our civil liberties and constitutional rights. I ask you, when was the last time your "civil liberties" and "constituional rights" were violated? Me? Never. I guess I'm just one of the very few?
    Me, personally? Yet? None. However, later, when more legislation based out of paranoia and fear is passed, and these national ID cards are instituted and required? You can bet that if our country continues on the same track that it's on now, many innocent people's civil rights will be violated.

    As I've just said, none of my personal civil liberties have been violated. However, I'll bet you've seen the many news stories about people not being able to enter their native country -- the United States -- because their name matched that of a supposed Arab terrorist. Is the government forgetting that there are more than six billion people in this world? Maybe they just don't give a ****, as it doesn't pose any inconvenience to them; they don't have to deal with it, and meanwhile they get to experience the feeling of security and freedom from terrorists (and effect this irrational frisson that our country is finally free of terrorists upon the minds of the American people)! Yay. Either way, you can read all about people's civil liberties being violated by the various supposed authorities and "law enforcement", whether at airports, political rallies, and even private residences and places.

    Originally posted by Rob83
    I already have a National ID, it's called a U.S. Government Issued Military Identification Card. The National ID will be identical, it will store the same information.
    I *really* don't think they're in any way comparable. Whereas the military ID card is something one gets when he signs up for the United States military, and is needed to identify and locate members of the armed services, national ID cards are not needed -- except to identify and locate members of the country, consisting of civilians with little to no military or political influence (except those dang "terrorists"). The practices subsequent to and stemming from the distribution of national ID cards would be unconstitutional:

    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.acfnewsource.org/general/national_id.html
    Choper broadens the discussion to a more common one about requiring all people in the US to carry a national identification card. People have raised this issue of national ID cards around immigration issues and because a national id card might be more secure than a driver's license. National ID cards, per se, are not necessarily unconstitutional, says Choper. But the legal questions around any discussion of a national ID card stem from the question: when, where, and under what circumstances would you be required to show your national identification card?

    Following Choper's line of thought, if all people were required to have a national ID card, then would police be able to just ask any person, Arab-looking or otherwise, to identify themselves at any time, just walking down the street, for instance? Choper says that kind of random demand for identification would probably be unconstitutional without some kind of "reasonable suspicion" clause.

    Originally posted by Rob83
    You guys are so quick to scream that your "civil liberties and constitutional rights" are being removed. I have yet to have any of my rights violated and yours.
    You're absolutely right in that I am indeed quick to defend my and my countrymen's civil liberties.

    Because you didn't witness firsthand the September 11th attacks, did they not happen? How about any other major event in history? On the same token, because your or my rights have not personally been violated, does it not happen to civilians? It has been documented many times.
    Last edited by SniperDevil; 05-07-2005 at 09:56 PM.

  21. #21
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    I feel the same way.&nbsp; I don't think it's a big deal....

    Originally posted by TalkMilitary
    It is an ID card. I have nothing to hide. I do not break the law, do drugs, sell drugs, hide from the tax man, run an illegal busines, smuggle arms, etc... etc.... It will not hurt me or my family in any way.
    VOIPO - VoIP Telephone Service

  22. #22
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    Am I the only one who has this remind him of the problems in Russia, without your documents you are a nobody. What if somebody steals this national ID card... I really hope they have plans to acomidate that :/

  23. #23
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    Originally posted by SniperDevil

    Because you didn't witness firsthand the September 11th attacks, did they not happen? How about any other major event in history? On the same token, because your or my rights have not personally been violated, does it not happen to civilians? It has been documented many times.
    Everytime I've seen someone complain that their rights have been violated, it's always been because they were doing somethign wrong. I mainly see the complaints on COPS. I *NEVER* see them on the News. I never read about them online or read about them in the paper.

    Sure there are people who have had their rights violated, people have been beat up by the cops, people have been arrested for somethign they didn't do.

    But that doesn't mean you can sit there and scream about your civil rights being violated. The majority of Americans haven't had their rights violated. And I'm probably will never have my rights violated.

    Maybe it's the way I live my life? Maybe I don't make cops question my motives or pull me over and search my vechicle because I smell of weed or I was seen leaving a drug house.

    And please, do not use 9-11 as an example for anything. I, like the rest of us, watched on TV what was happening as it happened. Maybe if we had a National ID at that time, 9-11 wouldn't have happened.

  24. #24
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    Originally posted by Rob83
    Everytime I've seen someone complain that their rights have been violated, it's always been because they were doing somethign wrong. I mainly see the complaints on COPS. I *NEVER* see them on the News. I never read about them online or read about them in the paper.
    What paper do you read? The New York Times and other nationwide papers have run stories numerous times about American citizens' civil liberties being directly violated by law enforcement who claimed to be acting with power given to them by the Patriot Act. In every incident, the citizen was completely innocent and was minding his or her own business; however, being paranoid and fearful as they are, law enforcement took it upon themselves to search their persons, possessions, and -- depending on the incident -- homes without warrants or probable cause.

    Regarding the complaints on Cops, that is completely different. Cops is a show about normal criminal justice and conventional enforcement of criminal law, not terrorist investigation, counterterrorism, homeland security issues, and federal investigations. Cops documents the days of cops on the job -- basically arresting lowlifes.

    Originally posted by Rob83
    Sure there are people who have had their rights violated, people have been beat up by the cops, people have been arrested for somethign they didn't do.

    But that doesn't mean you can sit there and scream about your civil rights being violated. The majority of Americans haven't had their rights violated. And I'm probably will never have my rights violated.
    It doesn't take a majority to affect a great many people, as evidenced by the Holocaust, which did not directly affect the majority of Europeans -- yet it obliterated millions of lives.

    Originally posted by Rob83
    Maybe it's the way I live my life? Maybe I don't make cops question my motives or pull me over and search my vechicle because I smell of weed or I was seen leaving a drug house.
    Neither do those whose stories and incidents of abuse have been recounted and published.

    Originally posted by Rob83
    And please, do not use 9-11 as an example for anything. I, like the rest of us, watched on TV what was happening as it happened. Maybe if we had a National ID at that time, 9-11 wouldn't have happened.
    It was just an example to show how naive your original point was, that since both of our rights haven't been violated, it isn't happening to innocent American citizens.

    As for your last point, we have no way of knowing, but if the Saudi terrorists who executed the attacks managed to obtain all of the stuff they did (driver's licenses, flight training on 747s, and the like), I don't see why they couldn't get "around" the national ID card. Besides, what is there to get around? They weren't wanted criminals in the United States, and as such would not have even been investigated -- oh, wait, unless you're suggesting that they racially profile at places like airports and other public places.
    Last edited by SniperDevil; 05-07-2005 at 10:41 PM.

  25. #25
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    The land of the Free

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    1938.. "Let me see your papers.." "Hail Hitler!"

    2008.. "Let me see your papers.." "Hail Bush!"

    It is something to think about..

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    In my best German accent:

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    The way I understood it, most states would simply have to modify their existing a very little, or even none at all to be approved as a form of national ID.

    Doesn't really sound like the end of the world unless you can be arrested or charged with something for leaving the house without it. When you can be stopped and asked for your ID and you say "I left it at home" and you get a ticket or jailed, THEN the problem starts. My wife usually drives when we go places so it's not uncommon for me to stuff some $20's in my pocket and leave my wallet at home.
    Gary Harris - the artist formerly known as Dixiesys
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  29. #29
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    And what happens when this "National ID Card" becomes your debit card as well? Paper money is no longer needed and now big brother can control where you live, where you travel simply by changing where your card will be accepted. Live in California? Big brother wants you to stay there? Done. Now your National ID/Debit/Drivers License/Lifeline to society card works only in California. Welcome to the machine folks...

  30. #30
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    Originally posted by case
    What a waste of money....
    Agreed.

    I've been knowing about the Real ID Act for some time now. It just provides a false sense of security. While it *may* prevent possible terrorists from boarding airplanes, it doesn't really do much to protect us from other types of attacks. Also it gives the federal governement more details about our driving records, speeding tickets, etc. For example: If you had a bad driving record in New York, they will know about it here in Los Angeles.

    Why did these ID requirements get attached to an "emergency" military spending bill?
    Because it's difficult for politicians to vote against money that will go to the troops in Iraq and tsunami relief. The funds cover ammunition, weapons, tracked combat vehicles, aircraft, troop housing, death benefits, and so on.
    The fact that it was attached to a military spending bill which was not likely to be rejected means it did not have alot of support. On its own it probably would have faced alot of resistance.
    Last edited by E_man3; 05-08-2005 at 04:25 AM.

  31. #31
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    When you can be stopped and asked for your ID and you say "I left it at home" and you get a ticket or jailed, THEN the problem starts.
    well you better fight the problem... I knew this was a law already, so I looked it up...

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Jun21.html
    Kerry Jones

  32. #32
    When you can be stopped and asked for your ID and you say "I left it at home" and you get a ticket or jailed, THEN the problem starts.
    well, if we are trying to find "illegal immigrants" by issuing this national id card, then its not hard to see that if you don't carry it with you, even if you were born on US soil, it probably means you are an "Illegal immigrant" and will probably face charges (perhaps a free airplane ticket? )

    and if you can get away with not having it with you, well I'm sure an actual illegal immigrant can do the same.

    This National ID will NOT protect us in anyway from terrorism. Don't you know that 9/11 attackers had expired VISAs and they still got in?

    Hate to say this, but those of you who think this bill will actually protect us, have been influenced just the way Bush administration wants you to. You are scared of everything in the name of terrorism. Let's get more guns, Let's have a National ID card, Let's buy "nuclear safe houses", How about an extra pair of superman shoes in case you are in a tall building and an airplan crashes into you (im sure that happens every day).

    What will it take for you to understand that this is a game. Check the "Homeland Security Advisory System"

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0020312-5.html

    Since the time it was INVENTED, it never comes down to even BLUE! Today it is elevated, well thats not too bad, is it? at least its not SEVERE. Now read the text below "Significant Risk of Terrorist Attack" under elevated?!

    Well, I would say let's get couple more shut guns in case we see a "different" looking individual, ask them for their National ID, and if they don't have it, shoot them in the head, call it War On Terror!
    Last edited by INTEL; 05-08-2005 at 01:11 PM.
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  33. #33
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    Ooh go out without it, speak German to the officers about not understanding English and get a free ride to Germany to visit my relatives? hmm that idea has potential hahaha
    Gary Harris - the artist formerly known as Dixiesys
    resident grumpy redneck

  34. #34
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    Introducing the new BigBrotherCard "It's only where your government wants you to be." - unixorn

  35. #35
    well...im moving to europe then

  36. #36
    Originally posted by MaxD
    well...im moving to europe then
    Yeah...'cause we all know they don't have a clue (sarcasm for those that do not get it). Right.... the German Polizei have it down to a science. The Italians too. They do not mess around. No country is perfect, but you still need to be able to identify yourself to the police.

    Move to Europe, then try to get away with having no papers. Try to get away with refusing to tell the police your name etc.....
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  37. #37
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    National IDs can help minors who don't have a driver's license as a proof of ID and that's about all the good i see in it.

    National IDs seems just like driver's license but cost about 81billion dollars more. I bet we also would have to PAY to get one as well.

    In New Jersey, we finally got the 'improved' driver's license that has more bells and whistles than the old one. What is the difference between THAT and the national IDs?!

    Will stores have these 'machines' to help identify the individuals for proof of ID or will they just glance at ur ID and say 'yep, u look like the picture'? That would be forcing many stores to BUY the machine. I doubt the government will start handing it out for free.

    In my opinion, it's like the government is doing a double attack on our money. Spending tax money and also taking money out of our pockets. Government sounds like a company almost.
    remy

  38. #38
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    You were close it's actually a few corporations pulling the strings. Seeing as they donate to each political party it greatly benefits the canidates to serve their corporate masters lest they lose their funding.

  39. #39
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    sorry, but if a police officers approaches me I shouldn't have to show him a damn thing. I don't always carry my ID with me, so if one stops me. its going to be "oh well, its good for you to take you time to arrest law abiding citizens and waste taxpayer money rather than arresting actual criminals".
    Kerry Jones

  40. #40
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    Originally posted by ANGELremy
    In New Jersey, we finally got the 'improved' driver's license that has more bells and whistles than the old one. What is the difference between THAT and the national IDs?!
    The difference is that our new NJ IDs don't require the state to digitize our proof of ID documents and store them forever, and it probably doesn't store as much data about us either. Whatever the case may be, I don't think that this system would work very well. Every state's drivers license system would have to be completely revamped, and things are already bad enough here in NJ. The state spent millions to make our licenses more secure and harder to counterfeit, and the feds new plan would basically mean that NJ wasted the taxpayers' money :rolleyes. Sorry, but that's not what I want happening with my tax dollars. Also, creating a system to link every state and government agency to the new ID system doesn't seem worth it either.

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