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  1. #1
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    Why do you guys want more competition ??

    Let me tell you a little story... There was a small book printing company. They made a book and printed it like a couple of thousand times. One day the owner of the company died and now the company was sitting on like 10 tons of books. My dad figured it would be a good way to make some cash so he bought around 2 tons of the books at $2 each. Then he sold them for $40 each. He was making a good deal of money but he made a mistake: He told his friend about the books. And soon enough 4 other guys bought the other 8 tons of books and sold them at the same market. It ended up with my father not beeing able to sell the books anymore as they started selling them for like $2. Now whenever I visit my dad I am laughing about 1 ton of books in his living room... Looks really funny especially considering that when I visit him in 20 years he will still be sitting on 1 ton of these ****ing books.

    Now what I am seeing here is that whenever someone asks if it pays off to open up a new hosting company you guys are like: "Sure, why don`t you just offer the same as me but 20% cheaper ?? I definitely need some more competition because it is so boring if it is so easy to make all the cash with just 5 million competitors around". Ok guys, believe me: YOU ARE DOING A MISTAKE !!!! If someone asks you whether it pays off you should say "HELL NO !!" and whenever someone asks you whether they should advertise on Adwords you tell them "HELL NO !!". I mean do you hate money ? Do you want to go bankrupt or what is your problem ? Although this market is oversaturated like hell you still get some customers. Ok, that is right. But if you continue to tell people: "Hey, why not open another shop right next to mine" you are gonna **** this thing up for yourself and others !! I mean for real - think about it: If you advise someone to get your competition what do you gain from it ?? NOTHING !! What do you lose ?? THOUSANDS OF POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS !! Doesn`t it make extremely much sense not to motivate other guys to get into the hosting biz ?? So I'd really appreciate if in the future you guys would act a little bit more intelligent in regards to this, ok ? It is just for your own good.

  2. #2
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    Because if you offer reseller accounts your probably going to make money out of these people who ask if the industry is profitable.

    They start up, buy reseller space from you for 6 months and then disappear.

    Its better than saying "no the industry has no room for you" and not taking any of their money
    Matt Wallis
    United Communications Limited
    High Performance Shared & Reseller | Managed VPS Cloud | Managed Dedicated
    UK www.unitedhosting.co.uk | US www.unitedhosting.com | Since 1998.

  3. #3
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    But what if they will grow big ? One big competitor can harm you more than 100 reseller accounts will make you in 6 months.

  4. #4
    you gain self worth and the satisfaction of helping people. Not everyone is a greedy ******* you know...

  5. #5
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    I do not understand why people offer reseller accounts or dedicated servers (unless you own a DC, of course) in the first place. It simply doesn`t pay off. You make 20 bucks instead of 5 you are making from a normal customer but then this reseller is gonne take away 20 of the customers who would have paid you $5 each.

  6. #6
    the reseller could be selling to a different market, and is getting costumer's that probably never would have found you. Your post count doesn't represent your intelligence about web hosting.

  7. #7
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    Originally posted by thomas.smith
    But what if they will grow big ? One big competitor can harm you more than 100 reseller accounts will make you in 6 months.
    Again, I disagree.

    - Reseller startup's
    - Established / Medium hosts
    - Big hosts

    Are all on different terms and appealing to different customers. I dont feel threatened by small newbie's just as I dont feel threatened by big players such as oneandone.

    You have to think logically and not be worried by hosts in totally different levels of the game.

    Many factors determine why a customer shops with which level fo host, and there is plenty for all.
    Matt Wallis
    United Communications Limited
    High Performance Shared & Reseller | Managed VPS Cloud | Managed Dedicated
    UK www.unitedhosting.co.uk | US www.unitedhosting.com | Since 1998.

  8. #8
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    >you gain self worth and the satisfaction of helping people. Not
    >everyone is a greedy ******* you know...

    Great...what does that buy me ?

  9. #9
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    ne big competitor can harm you more than 100 reseller accounts will make you in 6 months.
    P.S. 100 reseller accounts for 6 months is big money. I'll take that over convincing someone they shouldnt be in the business anyday!

    Reason?

    I concentrate on my own business and own customer base more than I look and worry about the competition.

    You should do the same as your obviously extremely worried by anyone considering entry to the market?
    Matt Wallis
    United Communications Limited
    High Performance Shared & Reseller | Managed VPS Cloud | Managed Dedicated
    UK www.unitedhosting.co.uk | US www.unitedhosting.com | Since 1998.

  10. #10
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    Originally posted by UH-Matt
    Again, I disagree.

    - Reseller startup's
    - Established / Medium hosts
    - Big hosts

    Are all on different terms and appealing to different customers. I dont feel threatened by small newbie's just as I dont feel threatened by big players such as oneandone.

    You have to think logically and not be worried by hosts in totally different levels of the game.

    Many factors determine why a customer shops with which level fo host, and there is plenty for all.
    Think about it: Where do small hosts advertise ? Where do you advertise ?

  11. #11
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    >P.S. 100 reseller accounts for 6 months is big money.

    Well, maybe 10 to 15k. But what does a large hosting company cost you ?? Maybe multiple times that much.

    >I concentrate on my own business and own customer base
    >more than I look and worry about the competition.

    You are making a mistake here...believe me. I know you got a lot of customers and it doesn`t come from nothing but times change... Believe me. There are two things to determine how successful you are:
    1. Your own strength
    2. Your competitors strength

    The better you are and the worse your compeition is the more money you will make in the end so that are the two things to focus on in business: Making yourself strong and keeping the competition weak. Look at Bill Gates: He realized that keeping the competition down is even more important than fixing your own bugs and he has tons of cash. Sounds extremely ****ed up but it is the truth.

    >You should do the same as your obviously extremely worried by
    >anyone considering entry to the market?

    I am extremely worried about absolutely everything that could turn into a problem once and that is the right way to do business. In the end it is going to pay off for me.

  12. #12
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    So I'd really appreciate if in the future you guys would act a little bit more intelligent in regards to this, ok ? It is just for your own good.
    Your entire post was appalling and disgusting. Just ATROCIOUS! Where on earth are you from? I've read a lot of your posts before and I must say you have got to be a schizo. The obvious is stated in your post and everyone already knows this. This would apply to all forms of businesses out there, however, as UH-MATT said, instead of being so paranoid on who's going to "steal" your "potential" clients work on getting those potential clients.

    Anyhow, negative energy is the last thing any company should have on their mind. I'm not sure if you are aware of the saying "Greed Turns Out To Be Bad Business ".

    Open your mind a little and relax, you'll live longer.

  13. #13
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    The thing that people find disgusting about what I say is that it is real you know. There is nothing more disgusting and disturbing than the truth... But you either have to live with it or lose.

  14. #14
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    The thing that people find disgusting about what I say is that it is real you know. There is nothing more disgusting and disturbing than the truth... But you either have to live with it or lose.
    As UH-MATT stated in your other thread, your WRONG! once again, however, you are entitled to your own opinion. What is disgusting is your attitude, personality and character. Yea, he drives a porsche, and you are saying he could drive 25 Ferraris. Does he need 25 Ferraris?

    I feel sorry for you and for whoever has to marry you. You will be one awful husband to have. If I were your wife, i'd be horrified to sleep beside you at night. Who knows what you'll try to get my insurance money. I think you should take some of that 10K you make a month and seek some mental help. I'm not sure if the others see what I see in your Character.

    I'm not trying to come off as rude or offensive, however, the sooner you realize your problem the better for you.

  15. #15
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    Re: Why do you guys want more competition ??

    Originally posted by thomas.smith
    . . . So I'd really appreciate if in the future you guys would act a little bit more intelligent in regards to this, ok ? It is just for your own good.
    It's a funny biz we're in. I know with HTTPme, I started off hosts who now have 10+ servers. So in essence, I was breeding my own competition. I keep in touch with a few of them, and trade tips etc. There's no feeling of competition there at all.

    But the market is huge and vast that I'm not effected by that. Someone has to start those hosts off, and it may as well have been me.
    AussieHost.com Aussie Bob, host since 2001
    Host Multiple Domains on Fast Australian Servers!!

  16. #16
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    >I feel sorry for you and for whoever has to marry you. You will
    >be one awful husband to have.

    I'm not asking you to marry me !! I am asking you all to stop destroying the little piece of the cake in this business that is left for us to share.

  17. #17
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    Re: Re: Why do you guys want more competition ??

    Originally posted by Aussie Bob
    It's a funny biz we're in. I know with HTTPme, I started off hosts who now have 10+ servers. So in essence, I was breeding my own competition. I keep in touch with a few of them, and trade tips etc. There's no feeling of competition there at all.

    But the market is huge and vast that I'm not effected by that. Someone has to start those hosts off, and it may as well have been me.
    You built that business and sold it so I guess you do not have to be afraid about not beeing able to pay your rent. But I do because I haven`t yet "cashed my chips". That is why I am really concerned about my piece of the cake. If I had like 500k to a million I wouldn't be concerned about anything...but until then...

  18. #18
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    Originally posted by thomas.smith
    . . . I'm not asking you to marry me !! I am asking you all to stop destroying the little piece of the cake in this business that is left for us to share.
    It's ok Thomas. Deep breaths now. Breathe in . . . hold one two. . . and breathe out . . . .

    There's still enough cake out there with these nasty hosts selling reseller accounts and dedicated servers.
    AussieHost.com Aussie Bob, host since 2001
    Host Multiple Domains on Fast Australian Servers!!

  19. #19
    Thomas, it is definitely time for a vacation.

    I find it hilarious that 90% of your posts here are requesting advice on how to run your company or deal with your customers, then you turn around and badmouth everyone giving you free advice. I'm curious where you would be without WHT.

    The hosting market is enormous. If another 1,000 hosts spring up tonight, it's not going to affect my business or yours one bit. Why? Because there are millions of sites out there that need hosting and far less web hosts. My customers aren't going to jump ship when they find another host 20% cheaper than me. They would have done that a long time ago if price was the deciding factor, but it's not.

    You're completely wrong about reseller accounts. Hardware costs nothing. You can get 200GB hard drives for around $100. That's 100 2GB reseller accounts. SUPPORT is what costs time/money. On a $35/month reseller account, I am supporting one customer. On $35 worth of shared hosting, I have to support 7 customers. The reseller may get an extra 250MB over the 7 shared accounts, but my cost is way way WAY lower. I'll take the reseller any day, thanks.

    This industry is not a little piece of cake. It's a cake the size of Texas and there is plenty for everyone. It's ok to share your cake.

  20. #20
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    It's ok Thomas. Deep breaths now. Breathe in . . . hold one two. . . and breathe out . . . .
    Hahahaha

    If your claiming to make $10K a month that's $120,000 a year which is some really good money considering you are to greedy to hire someone to help you out. So, you are pocketing $120K a year, stop whining. This should be moer then enough to pay the rent.

    Anyways, it doesn't seem like you have any goals or plans on making this money for your future children. Wouldn't you want to give your children a better life then what you had/have. I think you just want to have those 25 Ferraris and 10 girls in bikini's serving you food all day However, it should be evident that you have no intentions on having children with such greed.

    Money does not bring happiness, satisfaction or peace at mind. It may make you happy for awhile. Nevertheless, in the end when your sitting in your hot tub you will realize you have no one to share your wealth with, everything will seem pointless. Big deal, you'll die with $10million in your bank Hurray!

  21. #21
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    Re: Re: Why do you guys want more competition ??

    Originally posted by Aussie Bob
    It's a funny biz we're in. I know with HTTPme, I started off hosts who now have 10+ servers. So in essence, I was breeding my own competition. I keep in touch with a few of them, and trade tips etc. There's no feeling of competition there at all.

    But the market is huge and vast that I'm not effected by that. Someone has to start those hosts off, and it may as well have been me.
    You just have to learn to grow with them not against them.

    There are hosts that started off with me as resellers that now have over 10 servers of their own, but their 10 + servers they have are leased from me.

    Someday they will be ready for colo and when that time comes I intend to be there waiting to supply them with that also.

    Instead of worrying about competitors learn to leverage it for your own growth, lots of oppertunity out there if you supply a product that is needed.
    It is only a problem if you limit your yourself, if your dad had of seen the demand he could sold the books wholesale to the guys that he told about it and still made a mint. Instead he got greedy and always wanted to make $40.00 one book at a time.

    Besides I get a kick out of seeing a someone start from ground up and grow something.

  22. #22
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    Instead he got greedy and always wanted to make $40.00 one book at a time.
    That's what will happen to thomas. I guess the saying is true: "like father, like son" he was born to be greedy.

  23. #23
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    First of all I am not pocketing 120k a year. That is revenue. Not profit and I am spending most of the money on advertising. I will need to outsource the support now as I can`t handle it anymore. However, even if I made 120k a year: What if the business breaks down in two years ? I would not have enough money for the rest of my live.

  24. #24
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    Originally posted by thomas.smith
    First of all I am not pocketing 120k a year. That is revenue. Not profit and I am spending most of the money on advertising. I will need to outsource the support now as I can`t handle it anymore. However, even if I made 120k a year: What if the business breaks down in two years ? I would not have enough money for the rest of my live.
    Sell now take $80 grand or so and go invest in the stock market.

  25. #25
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    With all due respect I think you need to go lie down thomas. Your not making any sense and with views like your's your probably best of not in the hosting industry, for your own sake.
    Matt Wallis
    United Communications Limited
    High Performance Shared & Reseller | Managed VPS Cloud | Managed Dedicated
    UK www.unitedhosting.co.uk | US www.unitedhosting.com | Since 1998.

  26. #26
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    What if the business breaks down in two years ? I would not have enough money for the rest of my live.
    You are not capable to work any other job like 85% of the population? do you not have any other traits? and trust me, if you have to flip burgers to survive you will. Stop creating bs scenarios.

    Anyways, I will not waste anymore time with this. Take care and please do learn to share.

  27. #27
    thomas.smith: being so greedy isn't good. Don't get me wrong, I am quite greedy myself. I think money DOES help make a person happy, and I want to have nice cars, etc. But you have to realize that giving people bad advice because you are scared of their potential is wrong. If I was a mod, you would get tapped with my ban stick. If you can't be nice and help others, then why should you be allowed to receive help?

  28. #28
    Originally posted by thomas.smith
    First of all I am not pocketing 120k a year. That is revenue. Not profit and I am spending most of the money on advertising. I will need to outsource the support now as I can`t handle it anymore. However, even if I made 120k a year: What if the business breaks down in two years ? I would not have enough money for the rest of my live.
    I think that a larger problem in this industry might be hosts who spend more money and time on advertising than on customer support, get overwhelmed by it, have a nervous breakdown and leave all their customers in the dark. If you have as many customers as you claim, you should be more concerned about them, rather than your competition.

    "Most" to me means at least 75%. If you're spending 75% of $120k on advertising, and not making ten times that amount in return, what the heck are you doing?

  29. #29
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    I am not in the hosting business, so this is my take:

    Yes, having a discussion forum like this will encourage competition. Newbies come in (maybe one day I will do a hosting business just for fun from the knowledge I learn here), grow, and maybe outgun you one day. Don't say "I am not afraid of the newbies". Everyone start new and small at some point. Whether they can eat your pie depend on how good they are and how good you are.

    However, the free information exchange makes the industry more efficient. As a whole, this industry is able to offer better service at lower cost because of this, which enables more people to become customers. Without the free flow of information, you will have much smaller pie to compete for and the cost is higher for everyone (for you too).

    And, if the kind of business is profitable, you will have competition anyway, whether you tell people "come on in", or "don't do this, you will lose your shirt". This is called capitalism. The free information ensures that at least everyone has a good understanding about the realistic risk and reward, so nobody do something extremely stupid to mess up the pie. For example, I don't see anyone suggesting "offer $2/month plan and you will make a lot of money" to the newbies. Instead, the experienced always recommend against competing at the low end. Those who cheap prices won't make money for the owner, and mess up everyone elses' business. I am pretty sure without this forum and sound advices here, you will get way more low priced competition from the inexperienced simply because that's the most obvious way.

    By the way, Justin, according to thomas.smith, you shouldn't tell him that it is not a sound business that the advertising take so much of his revenue. ;-)

  30. #30
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    Without the advertising I'd have 10, maybe 20 customers... My business is set to pay off on the long term. I can stop advertising at any time. But then why would you earn 10k if you can make it 100k a month ?

  31. #31
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    It would all depend on if your quite happy with 10k pm of customers and that is what you can comfortably handle or not.

    Or how many debts you had to clear

    My carreer progression was debt driven for years, if it wasnt for debt i would still be in low level tech job

  32. #32
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    So, anyone know thomas' website URL?

    I'd love to see what all the worry was over
    valvemedia ltd private label reseller specialists!
    web hosting, e-commerce, content management and awesome design services
    Looking to sell? we are on the acquisition trail - US/UK hosts only.

  33. #33
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    Consider it like this: If you found a piece of gold in a mountain would you run down to the next village and scream: GOLD, GOLD !! Or would you look for more gold on your own and see what you can get for yourself ? To me it seems like the gold rush makes people blind and instead of keeping the gold for themselves they run around like crazy and tell everyone what they have found because they are so happy about that piece of gold and this way they miss a whole mountain full of gold... That`s not very intelligent.

  34. #34
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    Originally posted by thomas.smith
    Without the advertising I'd have 10, maybe 20 customers... My business is set to pay off on the long term. I can stop advertising at any time. But then why would you earn 10k if you can make it 100k a month ?
    I think you are missing all the points presented to you in this thread.

    You need to either get with the program and realize that in this multi-BILLION dollar industry, there is definitely room for competition, niche markets, etc. or get out now with whatever sanity you have left!

    If you are only getting a few customers without advertising, you need to look at your overall setup.

    At present, I am running zero advertising and signups are flowing normally just from word of mouth from my current subscription base. Obviously, advertising doesn't hurt and I'm about to start back up a few campaigns, but the point I'm trying to make is that you don't have to invest all of your revenue into advertising to try and beat out the noobs and hosting giants.

    I'd suggest you find the market thats right for you or sell off now before you give yourself a heart attack.
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  35. #35
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    I am getting customers from word of mouth, too. However, what I meant was if I had never spent any money for advertising in the first place.

  36. #36
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    You can list your company in well over 100 hosting directories with no money.

    I started out several years ago with a small reseller account and zero advertising dollars, didn't turn out bad afterall.........
    Last edited by Jay H; 05-03-2005 at 12:28 PM.
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  37. #37
    I, too, am very curious to see the website of Thomas' business.

  38. #38
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    >You can list your company in well over 100 hosting directories
    >for no money.

    That is not gonna bring you a lot of customers... Maybe like one in a week which equals nothing in my oppinion.

  39. #39
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    Well, you're wrong in my opinion but I'm going to leave it at that as you aren't embracing any of the very productive feedback you've been presented with in two different threads.
    * GeekStorage.com, LLC - Offering awesome website hosting for over 9 years!
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  40. #40
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    I am asking you all to stop destroying the little piece of the cake in this business that is left for us to share.
    If you have been in this business for more than a year or two and are still going after the same clients that a "newbie" startup host is, then you are already destroying yourself. On top of that, if you've been in the business for quite a while and seriously worry about losing customers to startup hosts, then you are probably not servicing your customers very well and are simply reaping what you've sown.

    If you sell a commodity, then you are at the mercy of the market pure and simple. If you (think you) sell a service, yet anyone with a reseller account can provide the same service you do, what kind of service is that?

    If you found a piece of gold in a mountain would you run down to the next village and scream: GOLD, GOLD ?
    Some of us actually see our customers as people, not as shiny chunks of metal buried in dirt.
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