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  1. #1

    Question Cost for a custom webdesign?

    Hi everyone,
    I need some feedback. How much is the usual price professional webdesigner charge their clients? can you give me some idea please. cost for static only design, static and flash, modeling/character/3d rendering.
    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    How long is a piece of string?

    There is no average cost, it depends on the project, the designer's skill etc. You go to a huge company like Ceonex and, just for a basic site you'll get charged around $25,000.

    But, you go to a student trying to build a portfolio and you might get a basic site for about $500! But it will be nowhere near the quality of Ceonex.

  3. #3
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    To add on to Will's point, it's amazing how people will come back to a forum (WHT, SitePoint, wherever...) and complain about how they paid $500 for a Web site and it was done well past the launch date, or it wasn't up to necessary quality standards, or it launched and then the client discovered anyone with increased fonts saw a broken page, or all support disappeared after the initial product was delivered, etc., etc.

    Yet, I've never once heard someone complain about Ceonex and their $20-30k price tag after getting a site done by them, and I know there are hosts on WHT who have Ceonex sites. Done right, there's nothing left to question. Created properly, you get your return on your investment. The more experienced and more stable your development agency, the less of a risk you're taking investing in a Web site (in general, there are always exceptions). There's so much more that goes into effective development than just the visual design. That's about 10% of a project's value. It's how well everything is functionally engineered, how the content is handled, how the site is tested, and about a million other factors that make a site worthwhile. If all you care about is shiny objects and happy-looking-stock-art-people, you'll have no problem finding it cheap, but be prepared to spend a reasonable amount of money (or your own time investment if you know what you're doing) to make sure it suits you and your business objectives perfectly.
    Studio1337___̴ı̴̴̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡̡.__Web Design

  4. #4

    Guesstimate

    Hi there, Dave here.

    I hope this helps.

    A standard, (static) 10 page or less, above average design quality, miinor FLASH 'elements' would run U around $500-650 depending on FLASH elements.

    A logo would be an extra $75.

    I hope that helps for your purposes.
    David
    http://www.thebusinessdevelopers.com
    http://www.myoshosting.com

  5. #5
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    I love it when people provide development quotes based on two sentences of information from the potential client. Very thorough assessment of the customer's overall objectives.

    (I wouldn't say anything normally, except that you're not allowed to hawk your own services in a non-advertising forum, so I feel perfectly comfortable commenting now.)
    Studio1337___̴ı̴̴̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡̡.__Web Design

  6. #6
    I believe he just wanted a ball park figure. Thought he was curious. It wasn't a quote... just a Guesstimate for him.

    He..uh... duh....
    David
    http://www.thebusinessdevelopers.com
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  7. #7
    He said, "How much is the usual price professional webdesigner charge their clients?"

    I assumed he was doing a little research. I 'sell' website packages all day and that's a ball park figure.

    cya'll
    David
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  8. #8
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    Well, now that he has a ballpark figure, someone will sit down with him, look at what he wants to achieve online, look at how he's marketing himself, how he wants to grow in the future, what types of scripted functionality he wants, how the site fits into his current identity if he has one, if not, how this gets created and what other types of marketing collateral he's going to want to coordinate with the site, etc., etc.

    Then he's going to be shocked and dismayed when he gets a quote for 10x what you've given him as a ballpark figure. Maybe he only needs very little from a developer and your numbers are ok, but it's simply irresponsible to toss around numbers randomly without knowing the full story. It lowers the bar for everyone else, because it creates unrealistic expectations in the customer, or it devalues what might be very good and necessary services for him, which he has no room to consider because he's focused solely on price.

    You're not doing a client any favors dropping ballpark numbers out of thin air. You're not doing the development community any favors either.

    And, FWIW, you're not following WHT rules, since you're self-promoting in a non-advertising forum (which provides the green light for this little rant). I'm not going to interfere with people's sales processes in the advertising forums. I'll just quietly shake my head and go about my business, but this is the place to discuss development business practices, and if someone is going to break the rules and do my industry a disservice at the same time, that's just what I'm going to do, have a relevant development business practices discussion.
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  9. #9
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    the_pm is right, don't go throwing around figures before knowing the full story. It's like accusing someone of muder when you haven't heard both sides ... lol.

  10. #10
    I am IN NO WAY promoting my sevices ... I have waaayy to much work already.

    Once again, I thought he wanted to 'get an idea'. He now has one. Certainly what I would tell some one if they asked for a guestimate.

    Anyways, I am outta here. Seems this board as with many others have to many folks that want to be 'competitive/argumentative'. I was merely trying to help the guy.

    Yeesh
    David
    http://www.thebusinessdevelopers.com
    http://www.myoshosting.com

  11. #11
    thanks, very helpful. I am looking for ideas. Now i can tell my client that xxx charge $20.000 plus and he's free to verify that - lol...

    next question;
    how does xxx earn the 'right' to charge that much and how do we justify our quote to our client that is above what other people are charging...

    thanks for sharing your thoughts guys

  12. #12
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    Ceonex have a vast portfolio and a proven reputation for the designs. People know they're good and they're willing to pay the price for it. Don't start up and immediately go in charging $30k, that'll get you nowhere.

    Do a few sites for pretty cheap (maybe $1k or $2k, business owner won't mind paying that) and then build up a portfolio. That's the way to go. Always start at the bottom and work up.


    That'll build you up a portfolio and get you a word-of-mouth reputation. Business owner know other business owner, its all about networking. Get contacts, get known for doing good work, then the clients will be coming in search of you and not the other way round!

  13. #13
    Definately going to have to agree with PM here. You can not ballpark a cost for a website, especially here on these forums where the members consist of people from all over the world. Your "ballpark" figure is ballpark for what YOU do and what YOU are used to seeing, which is a very very VERY small piece of a widely varying game.

    Even if Metatron were to get very specific with his needs, the price will vary a lot depending on who he goes too and a "ballpark" figure could still be very misleading.


    @ Metatron - Find some designers/companies whose work you like, present them with your specific needs, and get a ballpark figure from them.

    And as for this...

    "...how does xxx earn the 'right' to charge that much and how do we justify our quote to our client that is above what other people are charging..."

    XXX has the right to charge whatever they want. The fact that people pay that much means they believe that XXX's quality of work is worth that much. Everyone has a right to ask for any amount when it comes to this work - will people pay that much... that's the question you need to ask yourself - are you doing such quality work that people would be willing to pay that much, etc.
    Last edited by PlaneWalker; 05-02-2005 at 02:25 PM.
    Something witty here...

  14. #14
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    cdsadmin, you have my fullest apologies for reading your post as being self-promotional if this was indeed not your purpose. WHT has had an infestation of people attempting to advertise themselves in inappropriate ways, and it sounded very much as if you were quoting a package price you intended to charge the thread starter - "this package will cost you this much, add $75 for a logo." Again, if that wasn't your intent, I apologize for interpreting it as such.

    I do stand by my assertion that it is irresponsible to toss around numbers based on virtually zero information because there's no basis for proper level-setting, and I strongly debate the merits of having given a guesstimate at all. It makes it appear that development can be wrapped up into tidy little packages, and this simply is not the case. The development process is a very personal one for every client based on client needs, and tossing around numbers in response to this basic question blatently disregards this very important aspect of any engagement.

    Metatron, speaking to your second question, there are a number of factors that weigh into what you are able to charge to complete a Web project, and I'll similarly contest will7's number tossing, simply because there's no way to know what skill level you are at this point and the scope of the projects you'll be facing. I agree with him though that you earn the right to charge more over time, because the following things happen:

    1) You become more knowledgable, and greater skill has more value to the customer.

    2) You require higher more revenue to be able to grow/maintain your business as a livelihood. You don't do your customers any good if you price yourself out of business!

    3) You will be called upon to engage in larger, more time-consuming projects that may call on outside expertise and/or the forming of teams for projects. Project management is a skill in-and-of itself. You'll be charging more to accommodate expenses that naturally occur with these types of projects and extra time commitment involved in them.

    4) I think this is the most important one, at least for most profitable business customers: your increased knowledge helps you to make the most of the work you're creating for your clients. You might create a site, charge a customer $1000, and the customer might not see sales increase, might not see more foot traffic, call volumes, interest, etc., because the site was not worked into the customer's greater marketing objectives. Someone with the knowledge and experience might charge that same customer $20k, and because of what's been done with the site, the customer might see an increase in revenue that pays that amount back twice in six months. That's how a company can sell a customer on a $20k site compared to the $1k proposal, because they can get the most value out of it for them, and when you're talking dollars and sense [sic], you're talking a language every customer understands.

    Even if you're talking about an expensive engagement for a non-profit organization or some entity similarly not interested in revenue, you're talking about creating applications that make them work more efficiently and save them internal costs, or you're talking about being exponentially better at getting their message heard because the site is as accessible as possible and solid, ongoing SEO is being done.

    Whatever the case may be, these are the types of considerations that make the difference between the cheap developer and the high-profile developer.

    HTH!
    Studio1337___̴ı̴̴̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡̡.__Web Design

  15. #15
    Basic html site nice looking graphic looking at about $1000
    Good flash site nice graphic and animation about $2000-3000

    Flash site with 3D and intence coolness would say about $5000-15,000 +

    hope it helps

    ~Ritesh
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  16. #16
    Originally posted by thdsytes
    Flash site with 3D and intence coolness would say about $5000-15,000 +

    hope it helps

    ~Ritesh
    Anyone has a sample of these site?

    I know someone with a design I personally enjoyed: www.sacred-magick.com > how much do you estimate that site design cost?

  17. #17
    Metatron, i would say that site is about $500-1000
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  18. #18
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    Originally posted by thdsytes
    Basic html site nice looking graphic looking at about $1000
    Good flash site nice graphic and animation about $2000-3000

    Flash site with 3D and intence coolness would say about $5000-15,000 +

    hope it helps

    ~Ritesh
    Obviously read nothing about mine and the_pm's comments about "irresponsibly throwing around figures without knowing all the information"

  19. #19
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    Okay, before people go off wanting to charge $30,000 for their sites that they create in 10 minutes, I would like to clarify a couple points.

    When a web design firm charges $15k-$30k for a website, they do so over a 2-6 week period of time, in which there is a dedicated designer associated with the project. This one designer (along with subcontractors, and other internal designers, if needed) designs the site, tweaks it, makes it accessible, promotes standards with it, and much, much, MUCH more.

    I really agree with the_pm in noting that this forum is a breeding ground for $50 website "deals" that ruin our industry. It's like a plague! I really would recommend people go out and buy some books on web design and more - especially this one:

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846

    This is an awesome book that goes over why, how and where to implement standards in the sites you create, or the applications you create, even. I believe that by using standards, you create a way for the client to change your work easily by just reading ONE site on how to do so (W3C), they save on bandwidth costs for that site, and much more. It goes into detail in the book, as I am getting a little off-topic.

    Bottom line: don't charge $30k if you don't know exactly what you're doing. I wouldn't even suggest charging $2,000 until you know exactly what you're doing. But, on the same token, I think there should be a barrier of at least $500-1,000 so that people know what a real web design contract will cost them in the long run.

    I'm done

    -- Josh
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  20. #20
    I'm not sure the estimates are very close to the mark.

    In the nuke world, custom designs and conversions of existing html themes to Nuke or AutoTheme format run anywhere from $150 to $500. I'd love to charge $2,500 for a site, but I've not discovered that market yet.

  21. #21
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    I agree to some extent with you Josh, though I'll make a few clarifications.

    A development firm could create a site in a week and could easily justify a $30k price tag, if they put an extensive team in place to handle the project. A project manager, two programmers, two client-side coders, and visual designer, two SEO specialists (one competitive, one content), a copyeditor and a PR specialist, all putting in 50 hours in a week would run up a $50-60k client tab just like that (and the firm would probably charge extra for the rush job). It's whether or not the customer would see the return on that investment that matters. This is a company that probably earns a lot of money for its customers and can easily justify its costs.

    By the same token, a single inexperienced developer could charge $300 for a full site and not have it done for two months (or more likely, abandon it partway through when (s)he figures out it's not worth the effort for such a small price tag).

    The question is whether you're charging an amount that's fair given the nature of the project you're undertaking, and at the same time whether you're charging an amount that reasonably reflects your skill level and income necessary to sustain your business. You're not doing customers any favors by charging $300 for a site you should have done for $3000 when six months later you've stopped developing because you can't afford to feed yourself. Business people, big or small, should not be focused on the lowest price tag. They should be focused on what's going to serve their business best. Their developer falling off the face of the earth does not serve them best. Neither does contracting a developer, only to find out the bargain price has inspired ennui (I've been guilty of this in the past - it's a very human condition). Neither does discovering later that they're going to have to pony up additional funds so the developer can outsource components of the project (there's nothing wrong with this, but you MUST acount for this upfront, not partway through the engagement).

    I think the point's been made. Yes Josh, I can't conceive of a project costing less than $500-1000, if for no other reason than the research and preparation that goes into a typical Web project before the actual production takes place is going to be reflected in that amount (maybe more, maybe less, but a good approximation).

    I'd love to charge $2,500 for a site, but I've not discovered that market yet.
    Interestingly enough, I was told recently by a client (for whom I've now done three sites) that my first proposal was almost rejected because the price tag was suspiciously low (it was around $5000), and they had serious doubts as to whether they would get the level of service they needed and expected for such a small amount. The main contact for the client still tells me almost every time we talk that I charge too little.

    There is a matter of perception to all of this. Let's say you want a car. You could spend a small amount of money and get a decent used car. You'd spend more for repairs, the gas mileage probably wouldn't be nearly as good, you'd replace it faster, but the initial investment would be less - sometimes that's a big selling point and a major concern. Cool. You can spend a respectable sum of money for a practical car that will last a long time, is newly tuned, comes wiht a warranty, etc. It won't be a high performance vehicle, but the price tag won't be high performance either. Well, some businesses don't just drive cars, they race them, and that means they are happy to put the funds into purchasing a high performance vehicle because they want to win the race.

    Would you be suspicious of the car salesman who offered you a Viper for the price of a used Honda? You'd better be! If not, you might discover one day that your viper is really paneling covering a rusty AMC, and the dealer has packed up shop and is long gone.

    I'm not saying people who charge very little for work that should be priced higher are crooks. But I am saying that people in business (who are quite money conscious) will raise an eyebrow to someone hawking professional, skilled services at bargain basement prices, and you may be viewed as less of a professional or with suspicion because you've undervalued your worth. Or you'll simply be seen as less competent.

    In the nuke world, custom designs and conversions of existing html themes to Nuke or AutoTheme format run anywhere from $150 to $500.
    I have a friend of mine, a very good visual designer named Les, from whom you won't get a site layout, theme, whatever for less than $2k, uncoded. He never loses a bid from a serious customer, because he doesn't believe his work is worth so little, and neither do his customers. One of my business partners (new partnership, not announced yet - PLH Media is being dismantled ) is completing a project for one of our clients. It's a template, one main page, one inside page, coded. The proposal was accepted at $2,200, and the customer (who had extensive, unfortunate experiences with budget designers leading up to this deal) couldn't be happier.

    The market is there warrick, I promise you that. It's the market that sees the value beyond the price tag. And it's the responsibility of the developer to make that value clear. It makes me slightly ill to see the prices that developers and designers quote on WHT, and it cannot be emphasized enough that WHT prices do not even come close to reflecting the value of these services in the greater market. I tell this to developers here all the time. I've bought templates from people who did nice work just to support them a bit, and I always tell them they charge too little for their work - I'll even offer to pay them more from time to time because I feel like I'm ripping them off! Luckily the "professional" culture of WHT doesn't extend too far beyond the bounds of the domain!
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  22. #22
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    the_pm and VoxxitDesigns pretty much summed up the whole situation!

  23. #23
    Good advice. I'll have to think on it LOL. Maybe I do charge way too little.

  24. #24
    Maybe you should also consider the total cost of a website?

    Some web designers sell web hosting seperately at a mark-up. This takes advantage of the fact that people aren't very good at figuring out the total cost of things. i.e. you walk into best buy to buy something... and walk out having paid for an extended warranty. Or you buy a home theatre system or a printer, but pay extra for the cables. These are examples of high margin things that give a little more profit to the seller.

    Updates may be another point which adds to total cost.

    2- I think there's wide variation in the pricing of website design... some of it that's not really justified. Expensive is generally better, but not always. You might have an expensive web design company that creates a Flash site that works for only half your audience (you can't navigate it, it is too big for 56k, and some people don't have flash), or a student designer who is underpriced.

    This is kind of related to:
    What is good?
    Standards compliance? Well-written copy that gets people to buy your product? Utility of your website- does it answer your customers questions quickly?
    There's no certifications or anything like that that provides a quantifiable way of figuring out what is good.

    What is the market rate for web design?
    I think there's a wide spread here. Sure, quality generally correlates to price but there are exceptions.

    I think the most practical thing to do would be to figure out the approximate market price and to learn how to spot the exceptions when quality:price varies widely.

  25. #25
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    Yes, glennchan, there isn't a standardized certification process that a web designer can take to prove his/her knowledge or credibility. There should be, but there isn't. This is why we have portfolios.

    If you are a seasoned/experienced web designer or developer, you should probably be sending out letters, invoices, contracts, etc. through snail mail. I find it unprofessional to do otherwise, unless the client insists.

    Therefore, when you charge a client sub-$1k prices for development, you not only aren't eating at night, but you have to worry about postage prices, paper, and other miscellaneous office supplies.

    I hope people see where Paul and I are getting at by now

    Josh
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  26. #26
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    Unfortunately, portfolios tell a client very little about the quality of your work. Portfolios show a client that you know how to make pretty things. If the client has any knowledge about the value of a site, (s)he might be able to pick up on a few other things by looking at your work. But case studies that really spell out the value are much more effective than portfolios. I don't think there's a seasoned developer alive who hasn't created a site that was a masterpiece in every way except visually, because the client's idea of effective visual presentation and your idea of it were completely different. I have a few like this, and when the new partnership site launches, they will be proudly displayed as case studies, because functionally they are some of the best work my partners and I have done. Best of all, if you want to cut to the chase...ROI: return on investment. Prove it, and you win the business. If you don't prove it, your position changes (or weakens dramatically), or the nature of the business is such that you need to show the value relative to their priorities (finding out what those are should be the very first thing you do anyway).

    Glenn, you certainly make some good points, but I think your analogy at the beginning of your post is flawed. Web hosting is an essential service for a Web site. It's not a value-add. Your TV still functions whether you purchase a warranty or not. Your site does not exist without server space. The anology I like to use when I teach Web development is that of a house:

    A Web site is like a house. The structure is engineered and built by the architect ((X)HTML) and the style is applied by decorators (CSS). Each room of the house serves a different function (Web pages), but cohesively, they all belong to one functioning unit (the site). Your house cannot be inhabited unless it occupies a plot of land (server space), which may be identified as part of a neighborhood (reseller acct. or VPS), or may simply be a plot of land in a particular city (server). Your county is your rack, your state is the DC, the country is the network of DCs all over the world. Ok, truthfully I don't take the analogy past the server space part, I just threw that in because I was on a roll I'll finish the analogy by relating an IP address to a street address, and relating the domain name to saying "this is Paul's house" (identifying the residence by a name).

    Anywho, the point is that hosting is not a value-add, it is a necessary component in the end-stages of the design process. And yes, I do believe this should be talked about with a client at the very beginning of the engagement. This is the job of the developer, to educate the client - yes, the developer has an agenda, that the client should see what makes a Web site valuable and that the client should see that the developer is best-suited to the job, but the message is still an educational, advisory one.

    Acting as an advisor to a client is part of one's value as well, a part that rarely a nickel and dime developer can provide (it's simply not worth it to them to do so).
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  27. #27

    Thanks PM

    Whew.. thanks man.

    Yeah.. really thought he was ball parkin my friend. Just an answer nothing more (the urls are in my signature)

    Have a hop by the top one (web development), get a feel.

    I DO hear ya. I was merely trying to give a 'simple' answer to a 'simple' question.

    Nothing more.. Nothing less.

    Peace
    David
    http://www.thebusinessdevelopers.com
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  28. #28
    How do you get companies to actually hear about you?

    (P.S. What do you think about my sites and how much you would pay for them. The link it in my signature.)

  29. #29
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    Looks like you got the basics down bradford, but i dont wanna break a number down, casue opionons differ, but keep at designing, theres alot to learn from so many different objects of designing, not just Adobe, but much more software you should check out.
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  30. #30
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    ebradford,

    There are many ways to seek your niche market's attention. Get business cards printed, hand them out at networking events (networking with other businesses, that is =D), etc.

    I would recommend reading SitePoint (www.sitepoint.com) as it is a great resource about web design and development business practices.

    Josh
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  31. #31
    Well what I like to try to do is get some of my friends to do it for me, if you have any of those types of friends they will usually know what they are doing

  32. #32
    Originally posted by the_pm
    But case studies that really spell out the value are much more effective than portfolios. [...] Best of all, if you want to cut to the chase...ROI: return on investment. Prove it, and you win the business. If you don't prove it, your position changes (or weakens dramatically), or the nature of the business is such that you need to show the value relative to their priorities (finding out what those are should be the very first thing you do anyway).

    Glenn, you certainly make some good points, but I think your analogy at the beginning of your post is flawed. Web hosting is an essential service for a Web site. It's not a value-add. Your TV still functions whether you purchase a warranty or not. Your site does not exist without server space.
    I see your point. What I said earlier wasn't really an analogy, but more or less examples where people aren't good at calculating total cost. I was going off on a little digression there though, so sorry for the confusion.

    I think it definitely makes sense for web designers to provide web hosting (setup) service since it saves the client time and the web designer may be much less likely to screw it up (i.e. not going with the cheapest host).

    2- I guess there are different ways to look at the cost for a custom webdesign.

    From the perspective of the web designer:
    How much it should cost
    Figure out:
    Yearly income you should make (freelance income is unstable, so you should make more than an equivalent fixed income job on average)
    Business expenses
    Tax
    Benefits (Freelancing, you don't get these. So remember the cost of health insurance and things like that.)
    Hours, including unbillable hours (i.e. doing taxes, networking to find jobs, etc.). If your job involves lots of overtime, you may want to make more to compensate.
    If you work on a billable hours basis, then take annual income (after expenses) and divide by number of unbillable hours worked.
    Or instead of hours, you can go by # of websites as the unit. You may already know how many websites you are doing a year.

    How much you can charge
    This depends on:
    A- How much other people think your services are worth, which depends on how you market yourself and word of mouth. Word of mouth depends on results, your people skills, client satisfaction, and possibly other factors.

    Market rate
    You can try to position yourself in the middle of the going rate for web design. One possible reason to do this is ethics, because it's not nice to undercut others.

    Another "reason" is that you don't want to waste the time/effort figuring out what you should charge, and hope you can get a reasonable outcome by doing what everyone else does. I'm not trying to knock anyone for doing this and in some ways this may be rational. You may not have any good ways of figuring out how much you can charge. Trial by error may work, although it may be expensive if you don't get business. Although in some rare cases, you can get more business by raising prices (because people associate expensive with better).

    Perhaps another way is to shotgun the client with choices and offer them choices in a price range. Whatever they choose may be close to what they were looking to spend (although some people don't know how much they want to spend).

    How MUCH you quote clients at may be as important as HOW you quote them. For example, by first presenting a very overpriced quote you may make your real quotes seem more attractive. Another example (from websitesthatsuck.com), where a usability guru talks about how he now does his quotes:
    Usability is also very important but in a recent interview, usability guru Jared Spool puts everything in perspective :

    I learned quickly that business executives didn't care about usability testing or information design. Explaining the importance of these areas didn't get us any more work. Instead, when we're in front of executives, we quickly learned to talk about only five things:

    1. How do we increase revenue?
    2. How do we reduce expenses?
    3. How do we bring in more customers?
    4. How do we get more business out of each existing customer?
    5. How do we increase shareholder value?

    Notice that the words 'design', 'usability', or 'navigation' never appear in these questions. We found, early on, that the less we talked about usability or design, the bigger our projects got. Today, I'm writing a proposal for a $470,000 project where the word 'usability' isn't mentioned once in the proposal.

    When we work with teams, we teach them to follow the money and look for the pain. Somewhere in your organization, someone is feeling pain because they aren't getting the answers they want to one of the questions above.
    http://www.websitesthatsuck.com/bigg...s-in-2004.html

    Anyways I'm digressing...

    From the perspective of someone looking at hiring a web designer:
    Assuming profit is your goal, and that your website is primarily for advertising...

    Use value / worth
    Go with whatever web designer makes you the most money. Profit = value/worth of the website - the website's total cost (including web hosting, etc.)
    Unfortunately that's may be very hard to figure out! The biggest variable by far is the value/worth of the website, as that will vary from designer to designer.

    Perhaps using the word web designer is misleading if you want a website for advertising. Web designer to me has connotations of someone who makes pretty websites (or websites that are blah blah blah compliant), which is different from someone who can make a website that sells. A lot of the so-called web design sites out there are about making your site (blah)-compliant, usability, or aesthetics. While these things may contribute to a company's financial success, they may overlook other important parts of advertising (i.e. what the message is, as opposed to how a website delivers that message).

    Market rate
    You could look at the going rate for a web designer and go with that. This ensures you are paying a reasonable price for the website's total cost. Assuming the value of a website is roughly equal from designer to designer (in some cases it may be?), then this would make sense.

  33. #33
    I charge at 50 - 100.

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