Results 1 to 25 of 25
  1. Dell vs IBM servers

    So, whcih do you use and why? Historically I like using IBM, but Dell deals are so hard to turn down. Even at full price (forgetting special deals & coupons):

    Dell SC1425
    Processors: 2x2.8 Xeon
    RAM: 4x512 MB
    Drives: 2x73 GB 10K U320 SCSI
    Price: $2,625

    IBM xSeries 336
    Same config
    Price: $4,312

    That's a pretty big difference
    TrapZero Hosting
    Web, Forum, E-mail hosting and more for business and personal users. Accepting PayPal.

    FMVperformance Automotive Communities

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    46
    Why not choose 1850? For the same config, the regular price is $2497. And it comes with 3-yr basic warranty. With $600 instant off, you can get it for $1897.

    Also, 1850 has the option to add a DRAC. SC1425 does not have the option. I think DRAC 4 is great for co-lo servers.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    San Francisco/Hot Springs
    Posts
    988
    I like Dells, the last IBM server I bought felt cheap.
    I'm not very happy that dell decided to make 1850's dual drive only though.
    AppliedOperations - Premium Service
    Bandwidth | Colocation | Hosting | Managed Services | Consulting
    www.appliedops.net

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    984
    I'm with Bal9798, go with a 1850 unless you're going to buy a totally stripped down SC1425. The price usually ends up about the same on both models depending on the your config and the 1850 is the better chassis of the two.

    Sometimes Dell has blowout sales on certain models like the SC1425 or 1850 and that can be a deciding factor as well.

  5. ok like $2800 for the SC1850. Either way. Point being, why would people buy IBM servers?
    TrapZero Hosting
    Web, Forum, E-mail hosting and more for business and personal users. Accepting PayPal.

    FMVperformance Automotive Communities

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    385
    IBM all the way.
    IBM is superior, by far.
    And that price is high for IBM. IBM will be more expensive, but not THAT much more expensive.

    -r
    Raj Dutt // CEO // Voxel dot Net Inc
    http://www.voxel.net // [email protected]

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    984
    Nopzor, I think the problem is most people don't want a huge hassle to get a comparable deal with an IBM server vs. a Dell. It's fairly easy to get one with Dell calling up a rep, or just hitting their website, you go to IBM's website or make a initial call and it's like you're dealing with a sleezy car dealer quoting MSRP as a starting price.

    If it was more straightforward I think a lot more hosts would use them, heck I know I'd like some good AMD based systems myself.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    385
    Originally posted by sshepherd
    Nopzor, I think the problem is most people don't want a huge hassle to get a comparable deal with an IBM server vs. a Dell. It's fairly easy to get one with Dell calling up a rep, or just hitting their website, you go to IBM's website or make a initial call and it's like you're dealing with a sleezy car dealer quoting MSRP as a starting price.

    If it was more straightforward I think a lot more hosts would use them, heck I know I'd like some good AMD based systems myself.
    I understand your point.

    Pricing is just one factor. If you are going to be buying even as little as several units per month, IBM SmallBiz will work with you. 20% off list is pretty easily attainable, and more is certainly possible. I guess if you are buying the occasional server here and there, then Dell might make more sense.

    In addition, with IBM (and HP), since they are not direct-only/ JIT build, you can get servers shipped to you within 1-2 days (generally), and if they don't have something in stock, one of their channel outlets (ie. CDW, Ingram Micro, etc etc) will have it in stock and will honor your pricing negotiated with IBM. If the channel outlets landed cost (ie. what they paid IBM or HP for a server) + shipping + storage costs etc is higher than your privately negotiated pricing, the vendor (IBM or HP) will issue a rebate to the distributer.

    If you need 100 servers in a couple days, there's no way Dell can help. In addition, the rebates and special deals you see on their website are limited to qty 5 per order and even your rep will often not be able to even match the web promos.

    Overall, "the channel" is a really well developed system that adds little overall cost to the end customer. The economies of scale that companies like CDW and Ingram have leveraged is pretty significant (and their markup is razor thin). The channel is how tech purchases are made in the Fortune 1000 world.

    Finally, as I've said before. Dell is certainly not a tech company. They are not in the IT business, although they do IT. They do very little R&D inhouse. While they've created immense value, and have certainly given IBM and HP a run for their money (especially in the SmallBiz space), they simply can't compete on tech for higher end solutions and support.

    Again, I'm not knocking Dell or hosts that use Dell. They don't make bad servers. I'm just trying to make a point that hosts should seriously consider the benefits of going with IBM or HP.

    If anyone wants contacts or advice on how to do this, shoot me an email. Happy to help.
    Raj Dutt // CEO // Voxel dot Net Inc
    http://www.voxel.net // [email protected]

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    46
    [email protected], Dell has 2nd free CPU for server again this week. you may wanna take a look.

  10. Ah, fun.

    See, I WORK (primarily) for IBM eBusiness Webhosting... I'd love to run IBM servers in my other ventures. I just can't figure these prices!

    nopzor, you're right, prices are always negotiable. But for the forseeable future I only need 2 servers, and at the moment only 1. So it's harder to negotiate.
    TrapZero Hosting
    Web, Forum, E-mail hosting and more for business and personal users. Accepting PayPal.

    FMVperformance Automotive Communities

  11. Originally posted by sshepherd
    I'm with Bal9798, go with a 1850 unless you're going to buy a totally stripped down SC1425. The price usually ends up about the same on both models depending on the your config and the 1850 is the better chassis of the two.

    Sometimes Dell has blowout sales on certain models like the SC1425 or 1850 and that can be a deciding factor as well.
    I must be missing something... the 1850 seems to be ~$1000 more, approx (due to the U320 SCSI instead of SATA RAID).

    4x512 MB RAM
    2x2.8 Xeon

    SC1425: 2x80 GB SATA RAID
    SC1850: 2x73 GB U320 RAID
    TrapZero Hosting
    Web, Forum, E-mail hosting and more for business and personal users. Accepting PayPal.

    FMVperformance Automotive Communities

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    46
    Originally posted by [email protected]
    I must be missing something... the 1850 seems to be ~$1000 more, approx (due to the U320 SCSI instead of SATA RAID).

    4x512 MB RAM
    2x2.8 Xeon

    SC1425: 2x80 GB SATA RAID
    SC1850: 2x73 GB U320 RAID
    For SC 1425, the 2x80 GB SATA RAID is software RAID 0. You do not have mirroring for RAID 0.

    If you choose 2x73 GB SCSI software RAID 1 for SC 1425, PE 1850 is only about $200 more than SC 1425. But 1850 comes with 3 yr basic warranty (SC 1425 only has 1 yr), and CD-ROM. And 1850 has the option of DRAC 4. I like that a lot.

    By the way, if you wanna 2G RAM sever for your server, you could choose 1G for the server, and buy another 1G RAM from Dell S&P. For the server, from 1G to 2G needs $399. Buy 2 512M Server RAM from Dell S&P, the cost is $306 now (15% off for RAM at Dell now.)

  13. Yeah I can see the price being pretty much equal with U320. I noticed the RAID 0-only on the 1425... that confused me. Never heard of software RAID being 0 only before.

    Anyway, I've been trying to stay away from U320 because of its cost and because my bottleneck has never yet been I/O... might end up with it anyway though.
    TrapZero Hosting
    Web, Forum, E-mail hosting and more for business and personal users. Accepting PayPal.

    FMVperformance Automotive Communities

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    3,352
    here is a good read on IBM vs Dell's hardware.

    IBM thinkpad is still, IMO, the best there is. it is virtually indestruable. companies buy IBM because IBM can like the author wrote, offer a complete soultion. IBM have service, software, and hardware while Dell is only know to sell cheap PC.

    IBM also can desgin chip, Xbox2 and Sony's Cell chip are all desgin by IBM. if you compare who can offer you a more value service (not just hardware) IBM come out on top.

    http://www.techuser.net/linuxfuture.html

    Dell is a player in the Linux server market as well but SGI and IBM are no longer competing with it. If someone wants a low-end Linux solution they can go with Dell but a high-end solution is only provided by IBM or SGI.

    IBM has another advantage, it offers a complete line of Linux solutions. Dell might be cheaper in terms of hardware prices but it does not offer complete solutions. Some pieces of hardware have to be purchased from other vendors. Integrating and maintaining hardware and software from many vendors can be an expensive proposition, training and maintenance costs are higher. Consequently, total cost of ownership can be higher. The Dell price advantage gets negated by Dell's inability to offer a complete product line.

  15. Yeah, good answer jt. In my case it just means that IBM's aiming over my head, though, I suppose.
    TrapZero Hosting
    Web, Forum, E-mail hosting and more for business and personal users. Accepting PayPal.

    FMVperformance Automotive Communities

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    632
    Dell all the way...I get good discounts....

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    41
    Price is not everything. While i like Dell for the low end solutions, i go for IBM for the high end with lots of raid-5 drives

    I found the Dells less reliable over time then the IBM higher end servers.

  18. #18
    I found the Dells less reliable over time then the IBM higher end servers.
    What about like vs. like, say a Dell 2850 vs. IBM x346 (each 2U), each with dual Xeons, dual ps, 2x RAID1 (4 drives) and a gig or two of RAM. Will the IBM outlast the Dell, or at this product range do they use similarly reliable components?

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    984
    Unless IBM's have a 0% failure rate, it'd be very hard to convince me to buy them for a premium over a dell for models like the 1850 and 2850.

    Worst case, I've had maybe 1 or 2 drives fail out of over 50 in the last couple of years which were all in Raid 1 or 5 arrays, and Dell promptly issued a replacement delivered to my door within a couple hours, so the raid was rebuilt same day.

    Would even a 1% less failure rate (on hardware that has redundant systems anyway) be worth a 30% price premium?

  20. Dells 1U servers can't run RAID5, I believe? I think they only have 2 HD's?
    TrapZero Hosting
    Web, Forum, E-mail hosting and more for business and personal users. Accepting PayPal.

    FMVperformance Automotive Communities

  21. #21
    Price is certainly an issue here, and Dell boxes aren't "bad" in any sense.

    I just shipped off a new 1850 with 2 36G U320 HD's on a Perc4/256M Cache, dual power supplies, dual Xeon 3 GHz processors, and 2 GB of RAM. Bought it on eBay for $2,200.

    (It would have been cheaper if I'd been shopping last month, when Dell was making big deals to meet their quarterly projections).

    That's just a tough price to beat.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    984
    Originally posted by [email protected]
    Dells 1U servers can't run RAID5, I believe? I think they only have 2 HD's?
    Correct, their newer 1850's can't do raid 5, the older 1750's could.

    I believe the concern with the new chassis was cooling due to the heat generation of the new faster Xeon CPU's if another hard drive remained in the chassis.

    Still, even with better utilization of space going with Raid5 on a competitors model like IBM that matches the 1850's specs, could they still beat dell's price if you simply upgraded your hard drive sizes to meet the usable space of the raid 5? I seriously doubt it.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    984
    Originally posted by dzeanah
    Price is certainly an issue here, and Dell boxes aren't "bad" in any sense.

    I just shipped off a new 1850 with 2 36G U320 HD's on a Perc4/256M Cache, dual power supplies, dual Xeon 3 GHz processors, and 2 GB of RAM. Bought it on eBay for $2,200.

    (It would have been cheaper if I'd been shopping last month, when Dell was making big deals to meet their quarterly projections).

    That's just a tough price to beat.
    Yeah I just bought 2 more 1850's with the Dual 3Ghz 2mb cache special fairly well loaded for not much more than that. Deals were great yesterday.

    Only thing I hate about eBay deals is a lot of the sellers part the machines out and mix/match components that may not have come from dell.

    Or they use 256mb Ram chips instead of 512 or 1gb.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area,CA
    Posts
    77
    Good info on IBM, Raj/nopzor.

  25. #25
    IBM, Dell, good machines.

    Are you going to be using the IBM Director / Dell OpenManage features? If not, it doesn't really matter, remember:

    * RAM
    * Processors
    * Fans
    * Drives

    Are all of the same caliber in these machines. We're not talking about whitebox here, these are the top names in servers.

    You can't go wrong. We have Dell, IBM, and HP machines.


    We love them all the same.
    EuroVPS VPS Hosting - Virtual Private Servers | Web Hosting | Dedicated Servers
    Providing Reliable Plesk and cPanel Servers since 2004, now offering low priced Xen & VMware VPS in Amsterdam
    UK +44.203.355.6681 / Amsterdam +31.208.202.120

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •