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  1. #26
    Think I can try out my clients site at mambo-hosting.com then? He attracts about 100 users simultaneously at one time and peaks at about 500 users. Is there an email I can get in contact with you?

  2. #27

    2 cents

    The point he is trying to make is that nothing malicious was installed on the web space. In fact mambo was installed by Fantastico a part of the host own c-pannel. If this guys client uses this script to install mambo and then populates the CMS with content and releases it onto the net and it crashes how is he responsible for what their install script does? Either way the site shouldn't be taken off line with no options to allow either the client or Aestus to reach the data. Thats what bugs me about all this. Something was done wrong, ok but why should they treated like a criminals? Thats just bad business if you ask me. Edit if you hosting servers can't handle Mambo dont' have it as a install script under Fantastico.
    Last edited by Alverez; 04-26-2005 at 11:31 PM.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
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    Boston
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    Originally posted by Aestus
    copy and pasting sql code and telling me "not to do it again" after 7 emails doesn't help me. Telling me in plain speak in the first time that "Your mambo database crashed the SQL server because of too many users" would be better. Wouldn't you think? Maybe some opinions on how to make it better.
    I totally agree with you here, I think sometimes we (hosts) catch ourselves speaking technical which to many is just downright confusing.

    From step one all you need to know is what script and database is causing it and why it is happening but there are some clients who are just not happy with that and expect some type of forensic investigation.

    but in any case it is good to know which hosts have this type of response to those questions as above - so that hostees ( those who want to ) can put a small redcross by that host's name and remove from the preferred hosts list
    I am sorry you feel this way but you must understand there is no possible way to say you can use X,Y and Z scripts but not A,B and C there are just too many different things involved to be able to do so.

    As far as what number of users is ok to have again it is impossible to judge and place in a TOS that way, there are just too many different things to look at. You can have a stock phpbb with 100 users online at any given time with no problem and another phpbb that has heavy hack modification and uses 5x as many queries that will bring the server to its knees.

    Same goes with phpnuke, vb, mambo, and any other script out there.

    One thing I think is good to note is hosts should ALL have a set limit of how much % of resources can be used and for how long of a period. This way it would be much easier to judge and the host can say as per our TOS your site has been using X amount of CPU for Y amount of seconds consistantly and we set resource usage limit on all of our servers to X amount of CPU for Y amount of seconds and this is the maximum allowed. Your <script> name is causing this issue and you will need to either fix it or move to a more dedicated solution.

    I apologize if you through I was trying to be rude or smart in any way I was just pointing out we as hosts can not site around and troubleshoot scripts all day.

  4. #29
    okihost,

    its not difficult - you can clearly list some scripts - which versions - and without mods - are safe - others the hosts have no responsibility. there are only some 30 or 50 to choose from - and stamp some 15 or so as all - around - safe

    one again be very sure, no one asked you to troubleshoot any script, no

  5. #30
    Join Date
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    Originally posted by Aestus
    I've talked to other Mambo admins and they said that it's hit or miss with a server using Mambo. If the admins know what they are doing, Mambo will barely use any resources.
    I suggest you talk to server administrators and not Mambo administrators (I realize some are both). Any script uses resources and when you have 200+ users on a MySQL intensive script, your site does not belong in a shared hosting environment. I'm not saying Mambo is a bad script but the above statement is false.

    Originally posted by Aestus
    We the hostees need to clearly know what different hosts permit what different allowances for system resource usgae and exactly what they mean by server loads, cpu excess usage etc
    The truth is, we can't say such things in our terms of service. Depending on coding of the specific script, it could be one user or it could be 500. On the other hand if you email the company and ask them the question with specific information (the script, amount of users and so on) they should be able to tell you an approximate value.

    Originally posted by OKIHost
    I totally agree with you here, I think sometimes we (hosts) catch ourselves speaking technical which to many is just downright confusing.
    I agree with you OKIHost. It's not that hosts (or HostGator in this case) don't have a good reason but we just forget that some facts are not as obvious to customers as they are to the administrators.

  6. #31
    Originally posted by Lev

    The truth is, we can't say such things in our terms of service. Depending on coding of the specific script, it could be one user or it could be 500. On the other hand if you email the company and ask them the question with specific information (the script, amount of users and so on) they should be able to tell you an approximate value.



    tHATS IS WHERE THE QUESTION OF GIVING CLEAR AMPLE EXAMPLES COME - GIVE THE EXAMPLE LOADS THAT A FEW SCRIPTS LIKE PHPBB, MAMBO, 4IMAGES, GALLERY ETC WILL BE ABLE TO HANDLE. nOTHING IS BETTER THAN EXAMPLES

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
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    Originally posted by mahut



    tHATS IS WHERE THE QUESTION OF GIVING CLEAR AMPLE EXAMPLES COME - GIVE THE EXAMPLE LOADS THAT A FEW SCRIPTS LIKE PHPBB, MAMBO, 4IMAGES, GALLERY ETC WILL BE ABLE TO HANDLE. nOTHING IS BETTER THAN EXAMPLES
    Heres an example:

    1 User using a resource intense script, may be a problem.
    1 User using a resource intense script, may not be a problem.
    1000 users using a non-resource intense script, may be a problem.
    1000 users using a non-resource intense script, may not be a problem.


    You can't say for sure. The only way you can say for sure is if you have a admin examine the script (whom is very familiar with php) and then determine if it will be resource intense. Seeing how that would cost a lot of $$ for a hosting company, I doubt you'd see it happen.

  8. #33
    Join Date
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    New York.
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    I agree with host gator here. The thread doesn't need to include a negative connotation regarding Host Gator. It would appear Host Gator took the right action in suspending the account.

    It is unfortunate because a new user who types in Host Gator on the search feature here will be turned off right away.
    GenerousWebHosting.com Home of Generous George the Red Monster.
    24/7 Live Chat Support - 99.9% Uptime - 30 Day Money Back Policy

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
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    Brazil
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    I think that members should have a minimum post count to start a new thread. This way people would not be able to come here sign in and bash companies like that.

    Nothing against you Aetus, but I don't think you should have titled your topic "Hostgator review..... bad". Hostgator is just trying to protect their servers.
    ACcomunica

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
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    EU - east side
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    21,920
    While I agree on principle with you mahut, thing is phpbb is not just the simple phpbb (and this is true for the other popular scripts out there as well). Once you add hacks, things become much more unpredictable.

    IMO, once a site reaches the point where it has an average of around 50 users online it may be time to start looking for a VPS or some other high or guaranteed server resources solution. It is better to be on the safe side than to have the site suspended.

    Often times people (customers) don't think (or don't know) about the resources abuse issue and it comes as a surprise to them, when in fact they should prepare for it (including financially).

  11. #36
    The only way you can say for sure is if you have a admin examine the script (whom is very familiar with php) and then determine if it will be resource intense. Seeing how that would cost a lot of $$ for a hosting company, I doubt you'd see it happen. --- Jmweb
    By this time most of the hosts know what are the scripts mostly used. I meant to discuss about the commonest of the scripts - the scripts with which you ( a host ) are familiar with and known to cause or not cause any problem.

    While I agree on principle with you mahut, thing is phpbb is not just the simple phpbb (and this is true for the other popular scripts out there as well). Once you add hacks, things become much more unpredictable. --- Idcdc
    I have mentioned about restricting ourselves to the core or basic scripts - scripts without any significant mods or hacks

    I dont see why people are going on saying things like

    "1 User using a resource intense script, may not be a problem.
    1000 users using a non-resource intense script, may be a problem.
    1000 users using a non-resource intense script, may not be a problem."

    that is where the question of serving ample examples come. Give example like , phpbb without any hacks or mods is considered non-intense and on our server can handle 50 concurrent users - another host may say "phpbb without any hacks or mods is considered non-intense and on our server can handle 100 concurrent users " - probably many of us will be interested to join the later and probably the later wont complain or suspend when we have some 80 or 90 concurrent users

    I hope I have made my points clear .......

    That apart we also need to have a clear and tranparent understanding of what system resources are allowed and hardware ( eg cpu ram etc ) specs are there, and once an a/c is penalized what exactly led to that .

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
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    San Diego, California
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    Originally posted by OKIHost
    So now it is the job of the host to troubleshoot everyones scripts?
    No, but if they say your script is breaking the server they should at least have enough info to pass along as to why this is the case. More often than not a client isn't trying to break anything. If their site is causing issues you should provide enough info to point them in the right direction. I mean, if you have enough info to lay the blame on them you should have enough to share with them.

  13. #38
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    Originally posted by generouswebhostin
    I agree with host gator here. The thread doesn't need to include a negative connotation regarding Host Gator. It would appear Host Gator took the right action in suspending the account.

    It is unfortunate because a new user who types in Host Gator on the search feature here will be turned off right away.
    I agree and disagree. I think hostgator did the right thing by being proactive and shutting down a script that was causing problems but they errored in not communicating with the client. From the client's side it sounded like they tried to just upsell him right away. When he asked for clarification he was again pushed into a upsell and then after repeated e-mails finally given a suitable answer.

    From everything I saw the client looks to be a legit customer. No malice implied or intended. He had an issue develop and things went sour in the communication department.

  14. #39
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    He was given the reason the second he was suspended "wowmacro was suspended for nearly crashing the web server. It was directly the result of the following database." with the exact problem db listed.

    He wanted the site back on we said it woudln't happen unless we disabled the database, and we couldn't make any progress.

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    San Diego, California
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    336
    Originally posted by hostgator.com
    We hosted him for over eight months never any recommendations on wht or anything. His site causes a problem and immediately we get bashed in four threads representing almost his entire post count.

    http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showth...5&pagenumber=2

    http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showth...hreadid=399096

    http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showth...5&pagenumber=2

    http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showth...5&pagenumber=3


    I wish there was some type of WHT moderation jury that was allowed to clean up unwarranted thread titles / posts. Us hosts need someone here at wht to help protect the reputations we work so hard to build up when the truth is clear.
    I had to read this one a few times.

    Your client is paying you for the service you provide. They are in no way obligated to advertise for you. No matter how good you think you are.

    From everything displayed here it looks like a communication problem between your technical group and the customer caused his grief. Yes, a script that is bringing a machine down should be disabled but the host should immediately inform the client with as detailed a message as possible as to why they just shut down the clients service. Granted, if the abuse is intentional you could just suspend and forget but from this thread it looks like a legit customer had some problems and went from customer to bad guy status in minutes.


    Work with the customer; not against them.

  16. #41
    Join Date
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    Originally posted by hostgator.com
    He was given the reason the second he was suspended "wowmacro was suspended for nearly crashing the web server. It was directly the result of the following database." with the exact problem db listed.

    He wanted the site back on we said it woudln't happen unless we disabled the database, and we couldn't make any progress.
    If you did in fact communicate everything required from the start:

    I stand corrected and salute you!

  17. #42
    People are more apt to share bad experiences than good. If you expect people to post unsolicated praise about your service, you'll be constantly disappointed since that's often not the way it works.

    In this instance, although hostgator has a responsibilty to maintain stable operations, it's clear the user wasn't entirely satisfied with what appear to be some vagueness in the answers he received. That's something to file away for future interactions with your clients.

  18. #43
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    I have mentioned about restricting ourselves to the core or basic scripts - scripts without any significant mods or hacks
    That's the thing, busy forums/sites are rarely "pure" because as they grow, the owners find that some hacks are needed.

    That apart we also need to have a clear and tranparent understanding of what system resources are allowed and hardware ( eg cpu ram etc ) specs are there, and once an a/c is penalized what exactly led to that .
    I know mahut, I know, and I agree this would save both the hosts and the customers a lot of headaches. Thing is, there has to be a demand on the market for this, and seing how probably only <1% of sites run into this issue, that market probably isn't really there.

    PS. I've just realised that we're hijacking the thread, so I will stop here.
    Last edited by ldcdc; 04-27-2005 at 01:27 PM.

  19. #44
    Threadsdo diversify in a forum opportunities to clarify and get clarified - so no thread hijacking - the issues apply to the host in discussion here too

    What about busy forums that are pure indeed ?
    Just I ask the host to come with examples for those cases - that will be better than no examples

    though I do not agree with the figure 1%
    Caring for 1% is caring for minority - that is how democracy works
    and jusy becoz it is for 1% ( if it is so ) you can *not* just leave out something logical and good .

  20. #45
    Sigh... I stand by my point that the admins did not properly communicate what was wrong. They did not tell me exactly what was wrong until after I sent multiple emails regarding the situation. I didn't not get upset, I didn't threaten them, I didn't send an email in all caps. I sent them emails asking honest questions. I was getting emails from three differnt admins each telling me nothing.

    What the heck is this supposed to mean to a client who doesn't know much programming.

    Wowmacro (name of the account) for nearly crashing the web server. It was directly the result of the following database.

    | 290630 | wowmacro_mamb1 | localhost | wowmacro_mamb1 | Query | 104 | closing tables | UPDATE mos_session SET `time`='1114525262',`userid`='0',`usertype`='',`username`='',`gid`='0',`guest |
    | 290631 | wowmacro_mamb1 | localhost | wowmacro_mamb1 | Query | 85 | Opening table | UPDATE mos_session SET `time`='1114525270',`userid`='0',`usertype`='',`username`='',`gid`='0',`guest |
    | 290632 | wowmacro_mamb1 | localhost | wowmacro_mamb1 | Sleep | 53 | | |
    | 290633 | wowmacro_mamb1 | localhost | wowmacro_mamb1 | Query | 118 | closing tables | UPDATE mos_session SET `time`='1114525242',`userid`='0',`usertype`='',`username`='',`gid`='0',`guest |
    | 290634 | wowmacro_mamb1 | localhost | wowmacro_mamb1 | Query | 50 | Opening table | UPDATE mos_session SET `time`='1114525303',`userid`='0',`usertype`='',`username`='',`gid`='0',`guest |
    | 290635 | wowmacro_mamb1 | localhost | wowmacro_mamb1 | Query | 88 | Opening table | UPDATE mos_session SET `time`='1114525262',`userid`='0',`usertype`='',`username`='',`gid`='0',`guest |
    | 290636 | wowmacro_mamb1 | localhost | wowmacro_mamb1 | Query | 37 | Opening tables | SELECT * FROM mos_session WHERE session_id='4b850d953296ec1415339c5c3afd1673' |
    | 290637 | wowmacro_phpb1 | localhost | wowmacro_phpb1 | Query | 117 | closing tables | DELETE FROM phpbb_sessions”


    First of all, this means nothing to most users. A few hours later, an admin friend pointed out that the last line of code is from phpbb. So tell me hostgator... from this code. Which is it? phpbb or mambo?

    I asked your admins multiple times, What went wrong and what can I do to fix and prevent the problem? Instead I get a response like this

    To be turned back on we will need to perm disable

    | 290630 | wowmacro_mamb1 | localhost | wowmacro_mamb1 | Query | 104 | closing tables | UPDATE mos_session SET `time`='1114525262',`userid`='0',`usertype`='',`username`='',`gid`='0',`guest |
    | 290631 | wowmacro_mamb1 | localhost | wowmacro_mamb1 | Query | 85 | Opening table | UPDATE mos_session SET `time`='1114525270',`userid`='0',`usertype`='',`username`='',`gid`='0',`guest |
    | 290632 | wowmacro_mamb1 | localhost | wowmacro_mamb1 | Sleep | 53 | | |
    | 290633 | wowmacro_mamb1 | localhost | wowmacro_mamb1 | Query | 118 | closing tables | UPDATE mos_session SET `time`='1114525242',`userid`='0',`usertype`='',`username`='',`gid`='0',`guest |
    | 290634 | wowmacro_mamb1 | localhost | wowmacro_mamb1 | Query | 50 | Opening table | UPDATE mos_session SET `time`='1114525303',`userid`='0',`usertype`='',`username`='',`gid`='0',`guest |
    | 290635 | wowmacro_mamb1 | localhost | wowmacro_mamb1 | Query | 88 | Opening table | UPDATE mos_session SET `time`='1114525262',`userid`='0',`usertype`='',`username`='',`gid`='0',`guest |
    | 290636 | wowmacro_mamb1 | localhost | wowmacro_mamb1 | Query | 37 | Opening tables | SELECT * FROM mos_session WHERE session_id='4b850d953296ec1415339c5c3afd1673' |
    | 290637 | wowmacro_phpb1 | localhost | wowmacro_phpb1 | Query | 117 | closing tables | DELETE FROM phpbb_session


    and you must promise it wont be used again.”


    I must promise what won't be used again? What the hell is it that I'm using and what did I do? Is it Phpbb or Mambo? Both are in the code. You see my frustration? Why can you just tell me in plain english.

    One of your admins stated, L.Foster "I don't know the exact reason for the crash. I know what happened and who was responsible."

    What!? What kind of response is that? If he knows, then why won't he or any of the admins just tell me, instead of vague answers with php code copy and pasted.

    Finally, after over 7+ email tags I finally get a straight forward answer

    the problem was with wowmacro_mamb1
    which means we cannot allow you to use it again if you wish be hosted with us.




    Thank you for allowing me to work with you!

    Sincerely,
    Brent


    Why did it take me sooo much work just to finally get this simple answer.

    I'll copy and paste this part again since there's no point in me typing it out again.

    This could have all been settled with "Sir, it looks to me that your Mambo database has crashed the SQL server due to overactivity. That amount of load cannot be handled with your current plan. We recommend that you upgrade to a dedicated plan or limit the amount of users to your site. Each account is allotted only so much resources.... yadda yadda. " After that statement about the problem, you could try and actually answer my other questions that my clients had for me. It's called customer relations and communications. Your instant messenger reps have great attitudes and communications. Perhaps you should let them do more of the talking.

    Again I'll repeat this. HostGator's instant messenger techs are outstanding and have great attitudes and communications. I can't say the same for their higher lv techs.

    I am not give host gator the negative comment in necessarily the fact that they suspended my account. It's their (lack of) effective communication to the client.
    Last edited by Aestus; 04-27-2005 at 03:16 PM.

  21. #46
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
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    Both the customer and provider have good points. I can see why HostGator suspended the website, it was taking away the right of customers on the server to have their websites up. I also think HostGator didn't communicate to well on this. If they would of had communited better.... this probably wouldn't of never made it to WHT.

    So although I agree with HG suspending the website, I don't agree with how the handled it. But they did what they did, and if the poster doesn't like it.. I recommend finding another host with support you think is better.
    www.JGRoboMarketing.com / "Automate. Grow. Repeat"
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  22. #47
    I was willing to work with them in anyway. To be honest, I had no idea 400 users was too much for a shared hosting plan. Did they once expain that to me... Not at all! I had to come here to find that out. Now that I know, fine I agree that they had to do what needed to do, but they could have done a vastly superior job at informing me instead of leaving me in the dark. I felt as if I was being treated like a criminal to be honest. Like it was my fault that I broke their server and I have to beg just to remain a customer. That is not good customer service. It would have helped Hostgator if the php code you posted didn't have both PHPBB and mambo entries. So judging from that batch of php code you posted, tell me, which is it? PHPBB or Mambo? BOTH codes are in there. So when you tell me that the code was the problem, was it Mambo, Phpbb or both? When you tell me to promise not to use the copied and pasted code again, which was it? Was I promising not to use Mambo, Phpbb, or both? It wasn't until the very end where you finally singled out wowmacro_mamb1. Even then skipping all other questions I had for you. I've sent emails asking specifically was it phpbb or mambo? Did you answer..... no. I had to drag it out of you.

    Why not just tell me in the first place? Most users won't understand if you copy and paste code and say "Don't do it again" Do what? All I see is code that I don't understand.

    I've worked in customer relations field for quite a while now, and this is the worst example of communications between a business and customer.

    I already have a new host and honestly was going to let this go. I already said that this was resolved as soon as I got the backups for my client. I didn't post after than until now that I saw you had posted again. I guess you're not willing to let this go.
    Last edited by Aestus; 04-27-2005 at 04:01 PM.

  23. #48
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    I didn't post after than until now that I saw you had posted again. I guess you're not willing to let this go.
    Wow, hope you weren't referring to me.. bro I was on your side about the lack of communication aspect..
    www.JGRoboMarketing.com / "Automate. Grow. Repeat"
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  24. #49
    in hostgators defense, I am quite sure they dont have a DBA sitting around just to analyze an issue like this because they rarely arise. Its easy for one to be able to tell what user/database is taking up resources on a mysql box, its another to figure and look at your code as to WHY its taking up those resources. 99% of the time it is faulty programming to blame, they dont have the time to look through your site and analyze your third party app, and if they did you better be paying them a very good amount in tech fees.
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  25. #50
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    onthespot, very true.. I can completely see why they suspended the website. I think the poster is complaining about how they "communicated" with him. But anways he moved on.. looks like I will to... to the next thread robin!!!
    www.JGRoboMarketing.com / "Automate. Grow. Repeat"
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