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  1. #1

    Question Newbie needs advice - do I need a dedicated server?

    Hi,

    I have been running a website for 2 years now but am fairly inexperienced with technical matters.

    Our web host has been very supportive and friendly and we currently like the personalized service. Right now, they are recommending that we switch from a shared plan to a semi-dedicated plan as they say our site is overloading their server.

    I have a member on my website who is a web designer and he is saying that a lot of the information my host is telling me is false. I just want to understand.

    Here's the situation:

    Our website currently generates over 38,000 visits a month with almost 7 million hits. We are at our bandwidth limits, but our host says that it is not the badwidth that is a problem...it is the fact that we generate over 7000 "mails" a day.

    I still don't have a full understanding what "mails" refers to although our host has said that it refers to forum posts, emails generated through the system, etc.

    WE have a fairly active forum with an average of 500 posts a day (about 15000 a month). Our members greatly enjoy avatars (everyone has one), tickers, blinkies, and pics in their signatures. Our host has said this is contributing to overloading his server.

    We also have a very active Classifieds section with currently 1300 ads and a total of 90000 ad views (i don't know over what legth of time this is...although it would not be unreasonable to expect 1000-2000 ad views a day).

    What do all these tell you? Does it sound like I would need a semi-dedicated server? our host is offering us a switch to a semi-dedicated (1/8 of a dedicated server) for $70 a month. We currently pay $50 a YEAR for our current plan and can't afford such a big jump in price.

    We were experiencing extremely bad problems with downtime and difficulties in accessing our pages and our host says it is our site causing the problems.

    Currently, our host has moved us to a less busy server (out of the kindness of his heart according to him! and also of course we are a good customer and have referred him to at least 6-7 other friends) He has also suggested we reduce the number of avatars, tickers, etc.

    One of our members says this is bull: "Beyond that, I don't even believe they are even using processing power on your server anyway. The code should be handled by the browser. Since the image is located on another site, the browser will contact the other site for the image. I don't see how or why it would go through your server to get this image. Instead, it will make the request through nodes starting with your ISP. It will try to find the quickest route. Again, highly unlikely that it will pass through the mom2mom server. "

    HELP! I need advice from experts!

    Elaine
    Mom2Mom.ca
    Last edited by Douglas; 04-24-2005 at 11:58 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Our website currently generates over 38,000 visits a month with almost 7 million hits. We are at our bandwidth limits, but our host says that it is not the badwidth that is a problem...it is the fact that we generate over 7000 "mails" a day.

    ...

    WE have a fairly active forum with an average of 500 posts a day (about 15000 a month). Our members greatly enjoy avatars (everyone has one), tickers, blinkies, and pics in their signatures. Our host has said this is contributing to overloading his server.

    We also have a very active Classifieds section with currently 1300 ads and a total of 90000 ad views (i don't know over what legth of time this is...although it would not be unreasonable to expect 1000-2000 ad views a day).


    From the information you give here it sounds like your host is right. That site don't belong on a normal shared hosting account.

    70$ for the semidedicated might be reasonable or a lot. It depends on the server and services provided(is it managed or unmanaged for instance).

    Your forum mostlikely sends mail when posts are updated or somthing like than and thats what is making the 7000 emails.
    Checkout www.crunzh.com for nice freeware programs. Including a program for monitoring your webserver.
    Any opinions in this post, unless otherwise noted, are my own personal opinions.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    RTP, NC, USA
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    8

    Your host is correct..

    Your hosting provider is correct in that you *should* move to a dedicated server, but his quote for 1/8th of a server for $70/month is definitely too much, unless you are getting really good managed services provided by him. You should look around in the dedicated server offers forum here on WHT so that you can find a good dedicated hosting provider.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
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    USA
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    A very active forum can create a heavy load on a server. Maybe you could look into a VPS solution? they are about $50 a month at least and I think that'd give your forums a lot of room to grow.

    You also could find another host who offer more resources. it sounds like $50 a year, about $4 a month, is pretty cheap for such an active forum.

  5. #5
    The Forums and Classified Ads if they are dynamic in nature then they would indeed be generating some levels of CPU usage and thus might contribute towards the Server overload.

    I am not sure what the server specification which the web host uses to host your site and how many other sites are on the same machine but for $50/year, it would seems that they would indeed have to pack in quite a lot of sites to cover the cost of the server so there would be some serious overselling there. So each site if it just uses a small portion of the CPU would in concert be able to overload the system easily.



    I would supposed the mails that your host is talking about would probably be just standard emails probably email confirmation sent from the forum or through the classified ads. It is possible that would contribute to some of the CPU usage too.

    Without knowing the full picture, that's what I think happened.

  6. #6
    Your stats definitely say that your site needs atleast a VPS if not dedicated server...

    Infact its really strange .. you are getting hosting fo just $50 a year.. BTW who is your host?..if you dont mind telling..

    Good VPS start at $50.. you can search offer forums for a deal..
    Wholesale Domain Prices for Retail Customers - Rushtoweb.com

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2004
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    UK
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    It would appear his hosting provider is http://company-hosting.net/ but i cant seem to see what spec of servers they are hosted on, but yes a forum with that many users could cause the server to lag and problems for other users so a VPS would be the best solution.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    New York, NY
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    10,710
    Hi,

    I would say that it is about time for a VPS or dedicated server. Your host is incorrect about the signatures causing heavy loads, but he is correct about e-mails causing heavy load if lots of your members have the option on to receive e-mails when people reply to threads they post in. Personally, I would suggest www.powervps.com or www.servint.net for a VPS solution. A VPS solution will be isolated from other users of the server meaning that you cannot harm their performance and they can't harm yours (for the most part). $50/year is extremely cheap for the stats of your site. According to what you said, you do have advertisements on your website which should be able to turn in enough money for a decent VPS. If the advertisements are not profitable, take a look at Google Adsense.

    Cheers
    MediaLayer, LLC - www.medialayer.com Learn how we can make your website load faster, translating to better conversion rates for your business!
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  9. #9
    (Don't mean to de-rail the thread, but great new site Zeon!)

  10. #10
    I have few of my sites on Servint VPS.. the people at Servint are really amazing (Y).. i never had to wait more than few minutes for a reply to my mail..or a solution for any problem...
    Wholesale Domain Prices for Retail Customers - Rushtoweb.com

  11. #11
    A VPS would be a good solution , dedicated hosting the best if that amount of money could be afforded.

    However , since you have a clear picture of the load your site genarates you can visit the pre-sales of some of the robust shared host and ask them whether they can handle that type of load - this can save you the money and good places to ask this will be ( in no specific order ) unitedhsoting.co.uk, site5, hostpc, rochen, axishost

    If you are looking for vps or ded they have separate forums here for that which may be worth visiting.

    If you have to separate "chapters" with separate user-base you might consider two shared hosts which are robust and can handle the load - you need to have a good presales chat with them before you can jump

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    West Michigan, USA
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    9,687
    Yes, I would agree with your host. Sounds like you are a very good candidate for overloading a shared server.

    --Tina
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  13. #13
    right now what we are doing is moving our classifieds section to another whole new website to split up the load a bit (with our same server host). do you think that will work? at least for the short term?

    as for VPS, I was reading about it on this forum and many said that was ideal for people who really know what they are doing. We are basically learning as we go along. My husband is really good at technical details but again, knows more about computer hardware than internet stuff. This website was the first he ever attempted, although he has been learning really quickly.

    The $70 a month quote was for managed hosting for a semi-dedicated server....and from my browsing, that looks reasonable.

    My main questions right now are as follows:
    1. Will splitting up our website help temporarily? It is with the same server host though(I know it will keep on growing so this is a short-term fix).

    2. My server host recommended that I reduce the number of avatars, blinkies, tickers, and images in my forums. We have asked our membership to do so but they really miss their tickers especially. Do these things really make that much of a difference?

    The above question is in relation to the quote below:
    Your host is incorrect about the signatures causing heavy loads, but he is correct about e-mails causing heavy load if lots of your members have the option on to receive e-mails when people reply to threads they post in.

    Thanks so much! I am so thankful to have found this forum....its fantastic to be able to ask advice of "experts"! I am just a simple woman messing around in this wild and crazy cyberspace world!

    Elaine

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    England
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    1,200
    Get a dedicated server because it will allow you to grow more. Try out www.layeredtech.com they are really good.
    Custom Cloud Solutions - innoix.com

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
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    Ashburn, Virginia
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    I would have to recommend a VPS based on your budget. However, if you decide to go for a whole dedicated server, I would make sure you either get a managed plan, or find someone who will administrate your server.

    If you want to go for a VPS I'd have to recommend PowerVPS. They are very reasonable, and any support takes less than 15 minutes so far for me.

    Good luck!

  16. #16
    I would think the shock of the big price change is already drastic enough and from the post, it seems that the original poster is not technical inclined and as much as a dedicated server or VPS account be better apt for it, it would mean that she needs to pay even more for the managed service.

    I think it might be a good idea to do some shopping around. I would agree that the budget should go up but check with different host with your requirement and your needs and see what they can do for you.

    Although I will never be a 'mum' I got the chance to view the site and I believe it is something which has a worthy cause. I hope you do find some kind of arrangement there to keep the site going.

  17. #17
    Join Date
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    Atlanta, Jawja
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    It definitely got my attention, since I run a site that's ALSO for supporting mums, though in a different fashion. Elaine, I'll be in contact with you tomorrow.
    Doug Hazard - "retired" Web Hosting Master
    * Full Stack (Web/WP) Dev for The Catholic Diocese of Richmond (160+ sites)
    * Sports Photographer, Media Personality and CFB Historian
    * Tech Admin for several Sports Networks/Sites

  18. #18
    hmmm..I don't have access to an inbox for PMs at the moment. guess i have to garner a certain number of posts to do this?

    Elaine

  19. #19
    Join Date
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    Originally posted by spikez202
    (Don't mean to de-rail the thread, but great new site Zeon!)
    Thank you for your kind words.

    hmmm..I don't have access to an inbox for PMs at the moment. guess i have to garner a certain number of posts to do this?
    Yes, I believe you need atleast 5 posts to access the PM feature.

    Cheers
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  20. #20
    I don't mean to be a bug, everyone here has been wonderful. Would smeone out there be able to help me with some questions I had previously posted?

    My main questions right now are as follows:
    1. Will splitting up our website help temporarily? It is with the same server host though(I know it will keep on growing so this is a short-term fix).

    2. My server host recommended that I reduce the number of avatars, blinkies, tickers, and images in my forums. We have asked our membership to do so but they really miss their tickers especially. Do these things really make that much of a difference?

    The above question is in relation to the quote below:


    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Your host is incorrect about the signatures causing heavy loads, but he is correct about e-mails causing heavy load if lots of your members have the option on to receive e-mails when people reply to threads they post in.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Thanks so much! I appreciate all the help I've gotten here

    Elaine

  21. #21
    Join Date
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    Well, I really don't see how signatures and avatars can cause high load. Maybe, your host is suggesting this because it might reduce the amount of MySQL queries, depending on the forum software you use? Ask your host for more details about this. In either case, you definately need a VPS or dedicated server.

    Cheers
    MediaLayer, LLC - www.medialayer.com Learn how we can make your website load faster, translating to better conversion rates for your business!
    The pioneers of optimized web hosting, featuring LiteSpeed Web Server & SSD Storage - Celebrating 10 Years in Business

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
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    1. Distributing between two servers will lighten the load, yes. But you as a customer will have to pay more.

    2. Avatars will cause more data-transfer.

    Take one step at a time, go for a VPS now.

  23. #23
    Join Date
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    Originally posted by hellind2
    1. Distributing between two servers will lighten the load, yes. But you as a customer will have to pay more.

    2. Avatars will cause more data-transfer.

    Take one step at a time, go for a VPS now.
    1. Not always true that you need to pay more.

    2. That can be fixed by instructing users to use www.imageshack.us or www.photobucket.com to upload avatars and remote link them on the forum.

    Cheers
    MediaLayer, LLC - www.medialayer.com Learn how we can make your website load faster, translating to better conversion rates for your business!
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  24. #24
    Also perhaps look into offering advertising, i.e banners,text links, etc, with this many hits, as this could offset some of the costs.
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  25. #25
    our big thing right now is that we have asked all our members to remove their tickers, blinkies, and avatars. pretty much all of these are remote-hosted and not uploaded to the server itself. I did this on the advice of our server host.

    however, if it doesn't make a great deal of difference, then I would MUCH prefer allowing my members to have their tickers back as they miss them intensely.

    This is what one member said:

    "The point I made here though mostly had to do with signatures (including tickers). Since the images are offsite, they will not be affected by a better server. I remember someone else suggesting the same in that thread. I looked at the html code for these boards, and it is pretty normal. It uses an image tag and calls the image directly from the other site, so it does exactly what I was suggesting. It doesn't use processing power on your server. Only processing power from the offsite webserver (which you have no control over) and the end user's computer. "

    E

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