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  1. #1

    how fair is measurement of system resource usage ?

    my primary thread on this went unanswered by this forum as also there was no response from the company whose dealings in the latest closed thread in this forum raised this issue - i guess forum is where we can discuss these things and companies can also or should forward their views

    how fair is measurement of system resource usage ?

    what are the exact or approx ways that system resource usage overages are calculated ? can use of some of the common fantastico scripts cause this provided the transfer is within the huge limit that certain sites shared plans offer ?

    the huge space and transfer that certain sites ( like sitefive in the recent issue ) provides - are they proportionate with sys resource usage that might be generated by use of that amount of space and transfer

    as i was asking

    is there way to judge for myself what is my system resource usage like the way i can judge and actually see my bandwidth and disc space for which i am billed or I am at the mercy of the webhost to accept what values he give to me ?

    similarly
    is there way for me to judge live "connections" - apache connections and mysql connections ( and precisely how are they defined may i know ? ) - and a similar meter that shows me i have this much connection out of this much maximum allowed connection ?

    how can one be sure that servers are not too overpacked with too many sites so that they can't afford what-will-be-managable-load on a properly space allocated server ? i mean is the webhost always correct ?
    Last edited by mahut; 04-19-2005 at 08:03 PM.

  2. #2
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    I really would like to see your question answered, mahut. Downtime can be a pain sometimes but my real concern about hosting is system resources.

    I know theres no way to guarantee system resources on a shared environment. Only VPS have these abilities (right?)

    It is very clear to me how much space and bandwidth I can use but I really feel lost when it comes to system resources.

    I probably would pay more to have my system resources guaranteed in the future.

    I think hosting companies should start to post it clearly how much resources you actually have. They set the limits so they should be able to give us a clue.
    ACcomunica

  3. #3
    You raise a very good point and I'll do my best to answer it.

    First off most providers oversell, therefore nothing is proportionate.
    Secondly, its hard to tell how much rescources any site will use at any given time, therefore its hard to have anything be proportional as far as sys rescource usage goes since each site will use diffirent amounts of disk space/cpu power/ memory/ threads/connections.

    Is there a way for you to judge for yourself? phpSysInfo may allow you to view some system parameters which may or may not help you evaluate the state of a given system.

    It's somehwat difficult to make an accurate assesement of the state of a system and how many live connections and how much each site is using without root access via shell which no shared provider will ever give you.

    In this case if you're looking for a new host its wise to email them and ask them for their load averages, memory usage, free space, open connections, max file descriptors, max apache connections.

    If i missed something let me know.
    Webair Internet Development Inc.
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  4. #4
    ACcomunica: i think SOME hosts do mention it while others don't.

    We the hosting provider are raised with the question of: "what is a reeasonable rescource allotement?"

    It's quite easy to make a cronjob to evaluate the memory/cpu usage of each process and if its over a certain amount kill it, however some sites have traffic spikes, therefore its pretty hard to set hard limits on rescource usage.
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  5. #5
    >> "its hard to tell how much rescources any site will use at any given time" - Wanga

    thanks, but I was wanting to know how a webhost knows when she or he says "hey, you are over your system usage limits - we are immediately suspending you / or emailing you to give you time to settle score / upgrading to you to the next plan ( if available )"


    if the host knows .. I should also know


    if the host knows thats its me ... then I should be also able to "see" like I see my bandwidth and space meter in cpanel or any panel .... if you say that can't be done , well with modern era, modern softwares everything is possible OR does the webhosts do not want to do that to hide non-propotionate stuffs they offer ?

    If its the customer's responsiblities to judge who is overselling ( as discussed in other thread even with $50 per month and 2 a/cs per server it can be overselling idf one a/c is using too much sys resource ) it is also a forum's like this to be vocal about the "system usage and connections" parameters, what are the allocations the companies make, and how they are or should be tranparently determined .

    Nothing is "impossible" and there can be a start to good practice any time - a first step is needed .....

  6. #6
    In response to seeing disk usage bandiwdth usage in cpanel, you do see it, its usually on the left side of the screen. depending on the skin of course.

    Each company has their own criteria for declaring a site using too much rescources, for example, a company may deem it inappropriate for a site to use more than 10% of overall cpu and 10% of memory at any given time. This is tracked through WHM (if the host has phpsuexec installed)

    Some hosts just simply dont wish to disclose information about how they handle their servers, and I believe that in some cases its a good idea, we dont even want to know how bad of a shape their machines are.
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  7. #7
    >>In response to seeing disk usage bandiwdth usage in cpanel, you do see it, its usually on the left side of the screen. depending on the skin of course.

    yes, I know that I was stating that if I can see those there shud be technology to see "sys resource usage" by me also - if I am charged for extra space or transfer by the meter, whatever I am charged for or action taken against for overages in "system resource usage" I should be able to see that also ....

    surely the panel developers can add this feature ... nothing is impossible if one truly tries and if the customers demand


    >> Each company has their own criteria for declaring a site using too much rescources

    obviously ! each company has its own criteria for disc space and bandwidth and they advertise that - they should also advertise how much sys resource usage and connections they allow ..... with all other factors like support,uptime, space,transfer remaining comparably same, clients will have then the ability to choose which company offers the best "system resource usage" and best or max "apache" and mysql" connections ....

    its not just the clients responsiblity to dig into aup and get unclear ideas ....
    a good forum has the responsiblity to raise this issue and start it intio a standard clearly stated practice .....

  8. #8
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    mahut,

    I personally think system 'overusage' is when your site begins to have a nasty effect on the rest of the server.

    There are limitations to what you can and cannot do on a shared server - if you're having a minor traffic spike your host should just 'bare' with it.

    If complaints float in - I'm afraid there is nothing they can do but suspend the site that is causing the issues but *until* complaints come in from one of the other clients the site should be live.

    //Just my two cents.

    I personally think its acceptable to have some spikes - thats just me!
    David
    Web hosting by Fused For businesses with more important things to do than worry about their hosting.

  9. #9
    "hosts just simply dont wish to disclose information" or raising security issues cannot be any reason as there sure can be sure way of doing things securley ..... if you can meter space and bw you can meter also "sys usage" so long as you suspend/take action for it being overused - surely most clients will be happy to see it in real time .... for example if its sudden traffic spike or something shutting off a site there must have been a preset limit ... we shud see this preset limit and when/how this limit was crossed as visible record via any admin panel ....
    as I said nothing is impossible ... unless one argues that way

  10. #10
    mahut: a vps cant even limit rescource usage completely yet, a shared hosting environment certailny cant do it yet.

    You are absolutely correct, nothing is impossible, but at the same time are you willing to pay $100 for 300 mb of hosting? What I'm trying to imply is that we would have to modify our systems so heavily that we would have to pass costs onto the client.

    If you want true rescource viewing then you need a dedicated server.

    The point is there is no preset limit, each company has a set of admins that have diffirent views on what ideal loads are. It's almost impossible for us to limit you the CPanel user and then show you your limits and how much your using as far as cpu usage/ memory usage and other things go.

    In an ideal shared hosting environment you shouldn't be concerned about traffic spikes because you should have overhead available.
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  11. #11
    System Resource Monitors are what the name suggest they would monitor the system usage as a whole. The current tools are not equipped to show per site CPU usage or memory usage.

    I would think that during the time when there is a heavy load, they will check the system manually to see which processes uses the load and the owner of that process. Failing which it is not quite possible to determine.

    You could add monitors to spilt those results up to per site but adding more monitors would really mean adding more unnecessary load on the system.

    I would think that the first thing to check would probably be bandwidth usage. They do not always indicated heavy CPU usage because not all traffic uses lots of CPU or processes but it is a good place to check.

    It would really not be easy to do.

    Shared hosting usually are not meant for any of heavy load and from what I see, some web host do indicate how much resources one can use to be considered heavy load and those that I know would indicate something like less than 1% of the resources over a few seconds as heavy.

  12. #12
    @ wanga
    the question arose because of a recent issue a client was having ( the latest closed thread in this forum )
    its not a question of limiting the use by a client but
    letting him know the limits ( for example, very few hosts clearly state that they can allow for ex 5 max myqskl connections )
    and also letting him see tranparently how the limit has been crossed .... surely if there is client education and client awareness
    ( most posters here seem to be webhost rather than client so they speak from webhosts viewpoint ) costs will come down to any acceptable low level ... surely no one thought of $10 hosting ( with meterable tranfer , space etc ) 10 years back .... I am saying a first small step ie awareness is what we need

    @eddy
    bandwidth is not the problem ....
    most a/cs suspended or action taken against ( see all of this forum ) complain when they are well within bandwidth limits but supposedly go beyond "sys rersrc usage" which is soley determined by the webhost onesidedly .....

    as I said and as Eddy said also it will be good to see that hosts at least state, and if they not state, clients know from pre sales
    things that can be known from before eg max allowed apache , max allowed mysql connections ... so that with all other factors remaining same between a bunch of hosts I/we know which host to go to .... the one that allows me most connections, for example ....
    Last edited by mahut; 04-19-2005 at 09:44 PM.

  13. #13
    These factors are all dependant on the host itself, its up to you to ask the host what rescource limits are in place, and of course more hosts should start posting rescource limits to their clients.

    We'll update our site shortly to reflect such changes and let clients know their rescource limits and hopefully more hosts will take this step and let clients know what their limits are before it becomes a problem.
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  14. #14
    I am not a web host but have always been a customer.

    Like I said earlier, bandwidth can indicate heavy CPU usage but it is not always the case. The only thing available to view usage might just be 'TOP' which is like the Windows Task Manager's Processes. It shows which program or processes uses how much load and belongs to which user. It is something for the entire machine rather than site cpu usage.

    I guess what the host can do is to copy a snapshot of the TOP results and show it to their client. There is no elegant way of doing it.

    Since we are talking about a virtual hosting account, all of which would use a single Web Server, Mail Server, FTP Server and so on. The only controls in their configuration would be per server limitation rather than per site limitation. Basically all global settings. It is not going to be easy to restrict per site unless they heavily modify everything for it. But doing so might mean that the system would no longer be as robust as it was before and that there would be some pre-laden load because of the monitors.

    There isn't going to be an easy way to check and thus not going to be easy for them to investigate. Most of the time, web hosts would not go sit infront of their monitor and look at TOP results all day. One can go mad by doing so.

  15. #15
    eddy: i completely agree with you and that is exactly what I was trying to say. One advantage some cpanel hosts have is that WHM shows cpu/mem usage on a per site basis but as you said it would be difficult to show these results to a client at any time they wish to see them.
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  16. #16

    more hosts should start posting rescource limits to their clients.

    We'll update our site shortly to reflect such changes and let clients know their rescource limits and hopefully more hosts will take this step and let clients know what their limits are before it becomes a problem. ---- wanga


    Thanks , I hope other hosts take the clue

    @Eddy
    thanks, but its like repeating the same thing ... i agree with what you say but what i say is when one site is pinpointed and suspended that site shud see in real time what the webhost sees as cause for suspension ..... TOP results snapshot automatically can be done by C++ or panel programmers if the demand is so and yes, at same affordable cost ( why not ) - also if they have preset limits for max allowed apache and mysql connections they should mention it prominently so that , like I said, with all other factosrs remaining same I know which host to go to ...


    also the question remains

    how can one be sure that servers are not too overpacked with too many sites so that they can't afford what-will-be-managable-load on a properly space and bw allocated server ? i mean is the webhost always correct ?
    Last edited by mahut; 04-19-2005 at 10:06 PM.

  17. #17
    I was under the impression that most hosts already told their clients why they were suspended.

    In a case where a client uses too much cpu we always show an output of how much cpu they were using and what they can do to lower it. In most cases its a poorly scripted php that has a loop somewhere.

    As you said this is becoming repetetive but there is no rock solid way of limiting or showing clients what their limits are and how much they're using.

    also the question remains

    how can one be sure that servers are not too overpacked with too many sites so that they can't afford what-will-be-managable-load on a properly space and bw allocated server ? i mean is the webhost always correct ?
    one cannot be sure, so in that sense a webhost is correct.

    What I can tell you is to ask the host what their policy is on rescource usage, what their loads are, and what the system specs are.
    Last edited by webair-gene; 04-19-2005 at 10:10 PM.
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  18. #18
    >> I was under the impression that most hosts already told their clients why they were suspended.

    They tell, but mostly in qualitative manner - like "overusage" -
    what constitutes overuse ? -
    or like "its affecting other sites"
    if its affecting other sites on the same box , we are blind how many sites have been 'legitimately' packed into there and how they are using resources

    if you read this forum you will see many clients have been dissatisfied with this "sys resource stuff" .... not all of them can be wrong and webhosts right ....

    there sure can be cost effective way to handle this and we are talking of future, the companies who will offer this will be winner as internet access and sites continue to grow ... and future can even start today

  19. #19
    It would be possible if cost and load is not an issue.

    As to how many sites are packed into a single machine is really not an important issue, it is what the overall load that the sites uses which would be important. You can put 1000 sites on a server and yet not see CPU load of 0.1 but you could have a server with 2 sites and the load can go up to 9.0 or more.

    Most sites on a virtual hosts are pretty lightweight meaning they are mainly static sites and if they are of dynamic content then those are really down to the minimum.

    If you have a busy site like a few hundred users in a forum then it be better to start planning to move off to some other solutions.

    I know that some new hosts with server which are not filled with customers may be more lenient as far as using heavy load because every single customer counts but those established ones would probably be more strict for the benefit of all the customers on that machine.

    What they are concern about is overall load.

  20. #20
    so that brings us back to what amount of cpu load per site do you allow so that there is no overload ? some site may offer X , some site may offer Y - its time they go into written like some sites clearly say they allow this much of apache and mysql connection .... and the customer can choose ....

    with fantastico and phpbb and blog many sites are really not static sites and many sites may have 50 to 100 plus concurrent users ( not sql queries ) - if you say ded server is their only solution they will abandon internet , simply becoz thats not within their budget, and the shared hosting industry will die

    "It would be possible if cost and load is not an issue. "

    with modern rams and processors neither cost nor load shud be any issue if one really wants to develop and implement that sort of meter .... and if clients get educated and demand ... necessity invents thing and prices come down fast .... we are not speaking of what is but what can be in future , and as I said future can start today , and surely customers will bless hosts if clarity and tranparency reigns supreme ....

  21. #21
    >>As to how many sites are packed into a single machine is really not an important issue -

    its issue when you offer each site 3 gb space and perhaps 30 to 50 gb transfer and quite a lot of them actually uses that ..... thus you are not being proportionate in
    allotted space-transfer : allotted system resrc use .... and then you pinpoint a site which is slightly higher among this in usage as the offender and suspend him ... this is not fair practice ...

    { and if you go to whois.sc and search you will see some hosts even pack 5000+ sites in one box - that number does matter )

    the arguing may continue ... but the real sufferers suffer and they know the pain ... and they will surely like to know what was my first post in this thread

    if you think $ X can offer X service do not by way of words or tricky highlights make the customer believe he can get Y ....
    state clearly ... what is what ....

    and yes real time system usage monitor / per site shud be the next major headway for development ... who though of cpanel at $5 10 years ago ?
    Last edited by mahut; 04-20-2005 at 12:25 AM.

  22. #22
    mahut, how many people would actually use this?

    We host several mom and pop sites who know NOTHING about anything, do we as a host want to put a further burden on them by introducing them to something they don't know about (cpu usage, mem usage, inode usage) it's just ridiculous
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  23. #23
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    This is an interesting topic.

    I think a hard line customer expectation that the web host "...must do this..." or something that "...this should come free..." is a strong belief but I'm very intrigued by the flip side argument. BTW, mahut, this post is not directed at you so don't assume this is all in response to you, these are general musings.

    Lately I've been contemplating the idea of overselling because there are a lot of forum members here that really have a problem that some shared hosting sites pack too many users on a server. To some the idea is very alluring that web hosts should be held to a standard and such large hosts should not even be allowed to operate or advertise large disk space and bandwidth allocations because they know they couldn't possibly let every user on the server use so much.

    What I'm trying to get my arms around is a truly objective meter on what constitutes best prractices. Should a web host limit the number of users per server so that the storage, bandwidth, max connections, and CPU usage allocated can never exceed the server capacity and aggregate bandwidth of their system? Some would say yes but it really ignores bottom line considerations.

    I'm always leary of an imperialistic attitude that seems to want to impose a hard and fast rule and some sort of regulation that would say to companies "...you cannot oversell your servers." The best analogy that I can think of in life apart from computers is the airline industry that has been overbooking flights for years. Most of the time it works out but occassionally they get caught with too many people at the gate trying to get on a plane they have oversold. As analogies go it is imperfect. It doesn't take a whole lot of sophistication as a traveler to figure out you've had your seat taken and the airlines have to compensate you if they're going to bump you to a later flight. Web Hosting on the other hand is so much more dynamic with resources fluctuating by the nanosecond. Most users are the moms and pops and the hosts benefit from being able to make mom and pop feel good that they can use 5 GB of space and 75 GB of bandwidth but they use only 1 MB of space and 100 MB of bandwidth. The company profits and is able to stay in business and continually upgrade not hindered by keeping only 100 mom's and pop's per server but putting tons of them on there.

    A power user shows up and he fully intends to max out the "promises" made (and he rightly should expect that). Of course the devil is always in the details. I have to admit I rarely read TOS's and just assume that the hosting company's TOS is whatever makes me happy. I'm the customer right? I use GB's of storage and then start loading down the server with my hits. Here I am this monstrosity next to a bunch of moms and pops but there really aren't any "accepted practices" or "disclosures" from the web hosting company that tell me that they oversell more or less than the industry average. Also, because every hosting profile is different and I don't have a sign on my head that says "power user" when I signup, it's not as if the host can anticipate what's going to happen with my account before or during my hosting service.

    I feel like the more I think about it the more it gets confusing figuring out where to place the stake in the ground. As a consumer I would love to see something that came up with some model that said how many users it is safe to oversell based on certain user profile types. I could stay away from the hosts that were stretching the limits - I don't have a problem that they're doing it but I'm a power user after all and not a mom and pop. I don't think that will ever happen though because many big hosts would have to admit in a sense "hey power users, we're not the place for you". This forum kind of captures that but the measurement is so crude in a sense. It's kind of measured by the experiences of sophisticated users who have used certain hosts and then said "they're slow or they crashed alot" or something else but those problems might have been caused by something else.

    I guess, in the end, I do crave more information so I can make a better choice but I also know that hosting companies are not philanthropic institutions and wonder if I'll ever really get what I want.
    Rich
    WebsiteMaven - Web Hosting Reviews, Guides, and Advice to Build and Promote your Web Site

  24. #24
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    Its a good topic.

    We ourselves dont actively monitor each user's resource usage but we do monitor the server's load in terms of cpu usage,mem usage and load averages, if one goes unusually high it is investigated. If the server itself hits a limit that we feel will cause performance issues then no more customers will be added to the server, there is no set amount of customers for this since different sites will use a different amount of resources.

    In terms of each customer's own limit, there is no hard limit but if a customer has a run away script that ends up bogging down the server it will be killed and the customer notified.
    Chris Collins
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  25. #25
    what boggs down a server ? is it definable ? a pentium I with 48 ram can be bogged down by what will not be bogging a pentium 4 with 1 gig ram .....

    so the limits shud be sketched like we know the limits of disc space

    if this is difficult - at least - there facts shud be stated
    - how many apache connections you allow
    - how many concurrent mysql connections you allow

    on the developmetal side - cpanel team shud be inspired to develope a per site meter which can be seen by the client also as these are consumable stuffs like bandwidth ( which he is able to see from cpanel ) ... futuristic ?? but no one thought of free integrated media player in a browser when the non-graphical version 1 browsers came out ....


    a per site meter should be there , and if approaching max allowed connection limits it can automatically email > tech staff
    email > site owner for necessary steps ....

    many , yes too many customers and clients feel bogged down by the qualitative one sided assessment of "sys resrc usage" ... surely they dont expect ded server performance and many can't pay for them, to say to them 'you need to pay $$$ to get what u want' is disappointing and stating that science and innovation has ended .... they do expect 'moderate' performance and what they think as 'moderate' may be stamped by the host as "excess" for reasons which are not visible or transparent to them ...
    Last edited by mahut; 04-20-2005 at 09:39 AM.

  26. #26
    Your request would require a complete overhaul of Apache, MySQL, and various other service, it's completely irrational.

    Our current setup allows 2000 concurrent apache connections (minus keep alive)
    To my knowledge there is no way to delegate an amount of connections to a shared site. Same with SQL.

    One way of doing it is by IP, each site would then need its own ip limiting a server greatly and in the long run a hosting company would loose money.

    A /24 (255 ips) costs (to buy) a few thousand (not 100% sure on the price, check ARIN). This would limit a server to host rougly 220 sites, when it COULD possibly host 1000.

    At least with a site having its own ip using iptables or the likes a company can limit concurrent connections to in ip BUT what happens when there's a burst of visitors to a site? The client complains about loss of revenue, etc.

    What you're asking from hosting companies is very far fetched.
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  27. #27
    @wanga ...

    how can you burden by just adding 3 or 4 more lines to the feature list ??? not clear to me ...

    if mom and pops are using cpanel which has dozens of controls buttons and on the left hand side plenty of meters and usage list , probaly just 2 more ( those 2 on which grounds most a/c get suspended despite being well within other limits ) lines wont add to the complicacy .... wanga, i understand your frustration but i dont understand how it can be 'ridiculous' to end users ....

    you may have to wait few months or years but as things move ahead ( i am not the only one ) one day if u are still into hosting you will be featuring this probably proudly

  28. #28
    mahut it comes down to the following:

    There is no standard whatsover on how many clients a server company should or could have on a machine, it depends on the following factors: cpu speed, cpu type, memory, hard drive, motherboard etc..

    The better a machine is the more rescources can be used by the client. Each company has its own set of rules to determine wether a client is using an acceptable amount of rescources, basically, if a site is causing problems then its using too much rescources, how much exactly? that's the hosting companies discretion.

    If you're worrying about rescource usage then go for a dedicated server, a shared environment is probably not for you. (that soudned cold, but it's not)
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  29. #29
    @ wanga ....

    nothing is far fetched if the demand snowballs into something big

    its not a qsn of delegating but allowing .. what amount you will allow

    for example stating clearly how much mysql connections will u allow - diff hosts have diff policies ( or shud have ) - the customer then knows which to choose

    just for example see this - http://forum.e-rice.net/viewtopic.php?t=326 question 21

  30. #30
    Telling a client how many MySQL connections he can have is fine, however do you really want a hosting company to limit you to 10 apache connections? That is about 1-2 visitors (I.E. uses 9 or so connections)

    I think its an advantage that a host will let you fluctuate system rescource usage. Sometimes you need the extra apache connections, sql connections, cpu usage to process a php.

    I suppose you are right in the respect that a hosting company should let you know what acceptable usage is: for example if we said that we MAY suspend an account if it uses more than 10% cpu / Memory but at the same time we cannot give you a live output of how much you're using as it is at the moment impossible.
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  31. #31
    >>There is no standard whatsover

    thats exactly what - a forum and people will like to have a standard



    >>Each company has its own set of rules to determine wether a client

    rules should be made tranparent

    >>its using too much rescources, how much exactly? that's the hosting companies discretion.

    thats what most users object and will liketo know or see technology or means developed so that they are not blind and can see how the company applies discretion

    >>If you're worrying about rescource usage then go for a dedicated server, a shared environment is probably not for you. (that soudned cold, but it's not)

    certain hosts ( the recent one in closed thread ) have no means to upgrade and they shud clearly say that if "excess" usage is done client has to hunt new home and for that very sake they need to throw clear light on what is 'excess'

    I am also wrting to cpanel to addrsss this problem in their future versions ...

    >>This would limit a server to host rougly 220 sites, when it COULD possibly host 1000.

    may be you shud do that and price accordingly ... may be 2 groups shud emerge 'fair practice costlier ' hosts and 'at-webhosts-discretion-everything' cheaper hosts ...

    surely the forum needs to divide shared hosts into categories in addn to vps, ded etc

  32. #32
    I see where you're coming from but hosting is so dynamic that its difficult to implement such a thing, at the present day and time you just have to trust your host and hope that they're making the right decision.

    For example, a company can have in place: On a first (even 2nd) offense they probably dont suspend an account, they isolate the script/file thats causing the problem and disable it and notify the customer, they know that suspending a site can lead to undue hardships to their clients and wish to refrain from such.
    Last edited by webair-gene; 04-20-2005 at 10:13 AM.
    Webair Internet Development Inc.
    Shared Hosting Managed Dedicated Servers SEO
    1.866.WEBAIR.1 www.webair.com 24/7/365 Support Adult Friendly
    My comments do not reflect the views of the company or its management.

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Chattanooga
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    8,985
    Originally posted by wanga
    I see where you're coming from but hosting is so dynamic that its difficult to implement such a thing, at the present day and time you just have to trust your host and hope that they're making the right decision.

    On a first (even 2nd) offense we dont suspend an account, we isolate the script/file thats causing the problem and disable it and notify the customer, we know that suspending a site can lead to undue hardships to our clients and we wish to refrain from such.
    Just a note Wanga - be careful of the WHT rules!
    David
    Web hosting by Fused For businesses with more important things to do than worry about their hosting.

  34. #34
    fixed, thanks.
    Webair Internet Development Inc.
    Shared Hosting Managed Dedicated Servers SEO
    1.866.WEBAIR.1 www.webair.com 24/7/365 Support Adult Friendly
    My comments do not reflect the views of the company or its management.

  35. #35
    I guess thats a very good practice wanga ( i am not sure of wht rules and hp-david what do you think of these if you have read all the posts in this thread ? ) - I wish all hosts adapt that ... disable script/software but do not suspend a/c unless properly satisfying the reasons ...

    and yes, i am raising this issue in cpanel domain or other admin panels ( since cpanel first response is always a n-no , for example long back they said why do u need a logout button when u can just close ur browser ) ... surely we advance if we want to and we can advance at affordable prices too ...

  36. #36
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    Mahut,

    I've been here discussing it since the beginning of the thread as well - I had just noticed an awful lot of chirping on behalf of each companie's policies - which isn't allowed unless specifically requested.

    I do understand that there should be some sort of 'standard' - but there will never be a standard.

    As someone previously said - you have to just trust your host.
    Each host has different hardware, connections, opinions - there can be no standard.
    David
    Web hosting by Fused For businesses with more important things to do than worry about their hosting.

  37. #37
    >>I do understand that there should be some sort of 'standard' - >> but there will never be a standard.

    may be end customers will differ and as they raise voices and concern some standard as oppsed to know standard is bound to emerge / value people will learn lesson from 'no standard' hosts and move onto those whio have at least some tranparent standards ....

    one aspect of forum is to crave for not what is but what can be or should be ....


    [[ this is rather offtopic and 'btw' sort of thing , and no offence please, just 'musing' - I just clicked on ur link David and i begin to understand why there cant be any standard at least why some hosts say that ]]
    Last edited by mahut; 04-20-2005 at 12:28 PM.

  38. #38
    Can I ask you guys few questions? If you stream (not let download but just let them listen) audio, would it exceed the the 10% limit?
    And what about running a coppermine gallery (with a decent number of pictures. like 500+) ? does that exceed 10% as well?

    thanks!

  39. #39
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Northern VA
    Posts
    1,582
    Not necessarily. It would be a lame host indeed that didn't allow any streaming because just one audio or video file would exceed bandwidth limits.

    I hosted a church web site with ix Web Hosting for a number of years. Many here will tell you they stink. We had over 200 sermons loaded in excess of 5 MB each and they were streamed regularly.

    For photos, same deal. It shouldn't tax 10% of resources. 500 pictures is not much space.

    The whole problem might be if you have a ton of people looking at those pictures or listening to files at the same time.
    Rich
    WebsiteMaven - Web Hosting Reviews, Guides, and Advice to Build and Promote your Web Site

  40. #40
    how exactly or inexactly a host defines a ton seems to be the issue ... and hosts need to clearly address that ( hosts may not think so ) .... a ton may be = 100 or =10 though we thought bandwidth will be a measure for how many people consuming how much data ... surely it seems at 3000 megs and 100 gb transfer offered by host a and host b, scenario can be different when it comes to ton .... surely higher the ton and lesser the objection the greater will be the number of client .... clients want to know how you define or not define ton .... not qualitatively but quantitatively and wants a "meter" be developed in future if not now

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