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Thread: Wiltel carrier

  1. #1
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    Wiltel carrier

    Is Wiltel carrier any good? How do they rank amongst the other carriers - Level3, Verio, Abovenet, Global Crossing, Savvis, etc.. I never heard of Wiltel until today, they don't seem liked

  2. #2
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    They're not top of the line, Savvis, or Level3 Quality. They're closer to the bottom, but in a blend any provider is a positive addition. I haven't heard of any network wide degraduations or anything along those lines just higher than average latency and the occasional funky routing.

  3. #3
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    Bottom of the barrell, right along with Yipes

  4. #4
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    How is the speed to Asia? Anyone have servers that uses Witel to test latency.

  5. #5
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    We had WillTell for awhile. Solid, consistant 5% packet loss. Never could get thier support people to do anything about it.

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  7. #7
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    Yeah, WilTel is right at the bottom of the heap. The only thing worse is going with Yipes! all WilTel offer. Then you're getting pure WilTel with additional points of failure and latency while being one step farther away from being able to get anything done about it.
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  8. #8
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    Originally posted by Ananke
    Bottom of the barrell, right along with Yipes
    Yipes uses WCG, so I guess that would stand pretty well on its own
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  9. #9
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    I can't think of a worse carrier with a national footprint. Aside from everything already mentioned, Wiltel is overpriced. The best quote i've ever heard from them is $30/mbit on a 100 mbit commitment. Although, I'm sure many here will chime in and say they've gotten better quotes, and I wouldn't doubt this; it's just a testament to the stupidity of pricing managers and sales VP's. This pricing level is insane, considering that they have flat-out cut back on peering relationships, in favor of paying for transit. My personal belief, as well as many others who run transit networks, is that they simply lack the technical knowledge to maintain effective peering. I refuse to pay for their stupidity, when I could have Level 3 or MCI for 15% more.

  10. #10
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    Geez, there's not one positive remark on this carrier from searching here. I hope Sago drops them if they start to have problems. Why do they have to use an "outcast" carrier?

  11. #11
    WilTel has a tendancy to route effectively if you are close to one of their major peering points. As previously mentioned, if you are multihomed with WilTel, L3, and someone else, its much better than if you were singlethreaded with L3.

  12. #12
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    I'd put Cogent in any mix well ahead of WilTel.

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  13. #13
    Funny since Cogent uses WilTel's dark fiber. I'd place them as both being about the same.

  14. #14
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    Originally posted by wahoos20
    Funny since Cogent uses WilTel's dark fiber. I'd place them as both being about the same.
    Transit and transport are two entirely different things.

    Sam
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  15. #15
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    Since the thread pertains to us, I'll chime in and add that adding in another carrier, only increases redundancy and offers alternative paths into our network. BGP dictates the fastest routes in, so the only people truly effected by this would be those who's speeds are going to improve. As I posted on our forums, I went from an avg. of 78ms to 40ms with the addition of Wiltel. Many DC's carry multiple carriers, not all are Tier1, but they all have their purpose, aside from offering additional routes, capacity and improved speeds on an overall network. It's not a sole Wiltel network, just another 2Gbps added to the overall capacity, somewhere around 8.5Gbps atm.

    Thanks,

  16. #16
    Ok, so explain why you think Cogent is such a good transit carrier? Oversubscribed peering, legacy agg. switches.

  17. #17
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    Originally posted by sagomatt
    Since the thread pertains to us, I'll chime in and add that adding in another carrier, only increases redundancy and offers alternative paths into our network. BGP dictates the fastest routes in, so the only people truly effected by this would be those who's speeds are going to improve. As I posted on our forums, I went from an avg. of 78ms to 40ms with the addition of Wiltel. Many DC's carry multiple carriers, not all are Tier1, but they all have their purpose, aside from offering additional routes, capacity and improved speeds on an overall network. It's not a sole Wiltel network, just another 2Gbps added to the overall capacity, somewhere around 8.5Gbps atm.

    Thanks,
    Indeed. When you add that second carrier, you're reducing the chances of failure greatly. You could have a Cogent & WilTel powered network, but you'd still have a lesser chance of a failure than a single-homed Level3 network.

    Fact of the matter is, adding any carrier to a single-homed network like Sago's was, is a wise move that needed to be done.

  18. #18
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    Originally posted by inogenius
    Indeed. When you add that second carrier, you're reducing the chances of failure greatly. You could have a Cogent & WilTel powered network, but you'd still have a lesser chance of a failure than a single-homed Level3 network.

    Fact of the matter is, adding any carrier to a single-homed network like Sago's was, is a wise move that needed to be done.
    We weren't single-homed, Level 3, Global Crossing, and now Wiltel. Wiltel also provided a very short built out of a circuit for us, something other providers weren't able to do.

  19. #19
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    Originally posted by sagomatt
    We weren't single-homed, Level 3, Global Crossing, and now Wiltel. Wiltel also provided a very short built out of a circuit for us, something other providers weren't able to do.
    Oh, my mistake. I had thought you dropped Global Crossing a few months back.

  20. #20
    Adding in another carrier does not "only increase redundancy and offer alternative paths." BGP dictates the closest path. If a link suffers packet loss or latency as was earlier claimed BGP would still send traffic that way.

    We used to have Level3, Time Warner and Yipes (Wiltel). We had problems with the degradation of service all of the time from the Yipes connection that was really on the Wiltel network. Whether it was high latency in Tulsa or just a network segment having issues. When we took them out of the BGP our performance went up.
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  21. #21
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    Originally posted by wahoos20
    Ok, so explain why you think Cogent is such a good transit carrier? Oversubscribed peering, legacy agg. switches.
    I don't think they're "such a good" transit carrier - I do however think they're considerably better than WilTel. This is based upon anecdotal performance evidence. Their support/responsiveness to problems is also better than that of WilTel.

    Cogent is great for the price points it's being sold at - and is consistantly underrated by people, you included. WilTel however is NOT a good value, it's overpriced and inferior.

    Sam
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  23. #23
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    Actually, Cogent is a good transit provider, we've had nothing but good experiences with them.

  24. #24
    Originally posted by sagomatt
    Since the thread pertains to us, I'll chime in and add that adding in another carrier, only increases redundancy and offers alternative paths into our network. BGP dictates the fastest routes in, so the only people truly effected by this would be those who's speeds are going to improve.

    The redundancy part is generally true. The performance part is not.

    BGP route selection has nothing to do with latency, transit times, or other metrics generally used by customers to judge "good vs bad" networks. In fact it is entirely possible, and quite common, for BGP to send traffic to a transitor that really stinks at any given time for any given destination.
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  25. #25
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    Does Witel have good speeds to Asia? I saw the network map showing links to there which Sago lacks before the addition of Witel.

  26. #26
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    I don't think WilTel is that bad. Even a *big* player like RackSpace uses them in their BGP mix...

    Or am I wrong?

  27. #27
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    Originally posted by Apolo
    I don't think WilTel is that bad. Even a *big* player like RackSpace uses them in their BGP mix...

    Or am I wrong?
    Don't be so quick to rely on your herd instincts.. you'll understand why in a second. First some background. Yes, it is a fact that rackspace.com lists Wiltel as a network provider on their Network page. Although, just because they employ a carrier in their network doesn't mean that they do it to the extent that many of you non network operators are thinking. They might do asymmetric routing (i.e. using Wiltel for outbound only). This can have a tremendous effect on reliability, as it is much easier to shift outgoing traffic over to another transit pipe, than to make massive waves on the intarweb when BGP makes a major shift.

    As for the error of your ways, telnet to Wiltel's route server (telnet://route-server.wcg.net) and punch in www.rackspace.com's IP into a 'sh ip bgp'. You will find that Wiltel sees this IP transiting via Qwest (64.39.2.185 was the IP that nslookup yielded as of this writing).

    So, as to your comment about "RackSpace uses them in their BGP mix...," there is always the chance that they do on another netblock, but they certainly don't on the /19 that houses their website Perhaps Wiltel is long gone, and rackspace just hasn't updated their page?

  28. #28
    There was an article on WHT a while back about Wiltel and the effect of SBC pulling their traffic and putting it on AT&T. With the merger of SBC and AT&T all of that traffic will be pulled.


    http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showth...ghlight=wiltel


    Maybe SBC will buy them. They are in the drivers seat. Obviously we dont know the options the Wiltel execs are looking at. If they can pull off losing that much revenue they really earned their money.

    Has there been any updates to this story since the post I linked?
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  29. #29
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    Originally posted by tical
    Don't be so quick to rely on your herd instincts.. you'll understand why in a second.
    Thanks for enlighten the facts. I'll try to dominate my *herd instincts* from now on...

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